Mr Fenty on Look North

Not sure that helped the new stadium cause to be honest,

What did he say ?

Just heard about it on Look North, Peter Levy spoke to John Fenty, more or less said " The club needs to have a relocation within certain timescale otherwise he will have to reconsider his part in Grimsby Town, the directors cannot keep financing the club etc."

I got mentioned in the responses to Peter Levy "Other similar sized clubs, like Chesterfield, Shrewsbury, Rotherham, Barnet, Colchester, Doncaster, Morecambe have moved to new stadiums, so why not Grimsby Town."

Will be on Look North iPlayer soon >> [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b052g6n0/look-north-east-yorkshire-and-lincolnshire-18022015]http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b052g6n0/look-north-east-yorkshire-and-lincolnshire-18022015[/url]

Quoted from Nelly GTFC

Just heard about it on Look North, Peter Levy spoke to John Fenty, more or less said " The club needs to have a relocation within certain timescale otherwise he will have to reconsider his part in Grimsby Town, the directors cannot keep financing the club etc."

I got mentioned in the responses to Peter Levy "Other similar sized clubs, like Chesterfield, Shrewsbury, Rotherham, Barnet, Colchester, Doncaster, Morecambe have moved to new stadiums, so why not Grimsby Town."

Will be on Look North iPlayer soon >> [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mj5m]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mj5m[/url]

Fenty to reconsider his part in Grimsby Town if not relocated within a certain timescale ( council take note ). At last things sound like they are going to happen one way or another and GTFC might finally get out of the rut it has been in. Fenty would have to show his hand ( benign debt ) and then new investors may come in, or finally we get a new stadium.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Fenty to reconsider his part in Grimsby Town if not relocated within a certain timescale ( council take note ). At last things sound like they are going to happen one way or another and GTFC might finally get out of the rut it has been in. Fenty would have to show his hand ( benign debt ) and then new investors may come in, or finally we get a new stadium.

He also stated that the directors, namely 'me', have been financing the club for 13 years & he would only continue to do so if a stadium was forthcoming.

Don't blame Fenty to be fair
I can;t see this not happening - all the other 'small' clubs that have relocated with smaller fan bases than us must surely mean we will move sooner rather than later

Every time he appears in the media I tend to think that all of our causes take a knock.

At least it should sort it all, once and for all. Then we all know where we stand.

It's on the Look North website now >> [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b052g6n0/look-north-east-yorkshire-and-lincolnshire-18022015]http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b052g6n0/look-north-east-yorkshire-and-lincolnshire-18022015[/url]

4:20 mins onwards.

Why was all the filming done near the crematorium car park? They will never get a stadium on that piece of land  
UTMM

Quoted from chaos33

Every time he appears in the media I tend to think that all of our causes take a knock.

Would you rather let Defreitas be the only voice about the stadium, Don't hear anyone else other than JF standing up for the club in the media

Fenty talking about the stadium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxPQX5RynNo&feature=youtu.be

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

Would you rather let Defreitas be the only voice about the stadium, Don't hear anyone else other than JF standing up for the club in the media

Not really my point. I tend to think that GTFC should have someone adept doing its PR.

Just watched the whole program. Oh dear a lot of negative comments at the end regarding the unsuitability of Peaks Parkway for a stadium. But this is the only choice, since the council stupidly put so many restrictions on the Great Coates site, that it became impossible to move there.
We will just have to see what happens now.

The club has spent over a million quid on relocation, what a big fat flipping waste of money!!!!
Did he swallow a thesaurus before he did that interview?

Quoted from headingly_mariner

The club has spent over a million quid on relocation, what a big fat flipping waste of money!!!!
Did he swallow a thesaurus before he did that interview?

We could have had the whole of the York City reserve team for that money.

Ive just seen the interview, and I wonder if we really are coming to a tipping point? He cannot go on indefinitely lending us money hand over fist, and unless the stadium is built he wont get his money back, so does he stick or twist?

20 years later and we still haven't even got any sort of agreement to go ahead. I think he would get his points across better if he didn't try to speak like a politician all the time and keep trying to remember his "media training."  

I love the bit were he says its absolute POPPYCOCK hahaha i nearly spat my tea everywhere

Back to what I posted on another thread, JF is inclined to put the stadium before promotion. I believe that promotion would justify a stadium, I don't believe a new stadium guarantees promotion.

no but all these nimbys moaning about doing the stadium when we are in the FL...we were in the FL when we got knocked back the first time, the longer we are down here the thinner the budget will be and the harder to get out, even if the new stadium comes and were in the conference, atleast we will have the ability to attract investors, and have some form of money coming in.

Quoted from Meza

no but all these nimbys moaning about doing the stadium when we are in the FL...we were in the FL when we got knocked back the first time, the longer we are down here the thinner the budget will be and the harder to get out, even if the new stadium comes and were in the conference, atleast we will have the ability to attract investors, and have some form of money coming in.

If he wants to state that he's propped up the clubs finances for 13 years then he has to accept responsibility for the clubs achievements (?) over that period. Where we are is as a result of a decade of questionable decisions, including some on stadium projects, league status must be the first objective, nothing less.

League status is irrelevant surely? Same goes for attendances? Surely there's a bigger picture, the club's future existence for example?

How would not relocating guarantee promotion?  

...
I for one have notice the queues at half time for food and drink, especially for booze. I believe the club is losing out of potential extra revenue with the lack of facilities at Blundell park, and that the only way to solve this, is to relocate to a more up-to-date stadia with better facilities.

Just my opinion of course.  

While JF is both politician and major shareholder he is in a weak situation, treading a fine line over using his position as a councillor to benefit a business he effectively owns.

This is because the new stadium will depend on a backer who can only be attracted if the council of which JF is a member allows them to build a large housing development in the same vicinity.

I don't know about anyone else but the words 'conflict of interests' spring to my mind.

League status irrelevant? Are you serious? The longer we're in this cesspit of a league the shorter our existence as a club will be.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

If he wants to state that he's propped up the clubs finances for 13 years then he has to accept responsibility for the clubs achievements (?) over that period. Where we are is as a result of a decade of questionable decisions, including some on stadium projects, league status must be the first objective, nothing less.

He wasn't on his own was he for the full 13 years and he wouldn't be on his own now if it wasn't for the boardroom failings and MP shares fiasco.  

When all is said and done he has been in charge of the club and is fully responsible for the last 5 seasons, what will be will be, it's Fenty's legacy so it's his call, he dodged the question and left it vague, what is he going to do if the new ground move fails.

Quoted from LH

League status irrelevant? Are you serious? The longer we're in this cesspit of a league the shorter our existence as a club will be.

I don't see how promotion and a stadium can be connected? Why can't we have both? Promotion is what we want now, a stadium is what want for the future.  

Quoted from GiveUsAG

I don't see how promotion and a stadium can be connected? Why can't we have both? Promotion is what we want now, a stadium is what want for the future.  

This
Why should we be happy with just one when with work and some good fortune we could have both.

This bloke is absolutely killing me, I can't take it anymore.

I don't want to be overly critical, but this post might sound like I am being - so if you're one of those who won't hear a bad word said against him, then just stop reading now.


The problem here, and pretty much throughout this entire process, is that I'm yet to hear a single, quality, succinct statement on how this development will benefit the community. That's coming from someone who is on this board almost daily, follows the club religiously, reads & listens to almost everything that comes out of the club - so how the frig is Joe Bloggs going to know why they should support a new development? I know the club haven't decided on specifics yet, but again we keep hearing this "community" term bandied about without any explanation on how this will benefit the community. It's pretty basic.

The Look North piece was probably the biggest & best opportunity the club had to showcase the benefits of the development to hundreds of thousands of people. What happened? Fenty allowed, and pretty much encouraged, it to become a "discussion" (read "massive whinge") about his funding of the club and the possible negative implications of the development not going ahead. This bloke's supposed to be a politician, is he not? How the intercourse has he allowed that to happen? Now, I don't think anyone's expecting him to have delivered a performance straight from the Alastair Campbell school of spin, but Peter Levy is hardly Jeremy Paxman - would it really have been so difficult to...I dunno.... not let an interview designed to promote a development descend into a argument about how copulated we're going to be if/when everything goes to excrement and he is forced to leave?

The whole campaign is being run from the wrong angle, seemingly. Almost everything I've seen has been Fenty/the club pitting objectors / complainers / NIMBYs / etc. against the club's supporters, in some kind of fire-fighting excercise where people are expected pick through objections point-by-point and argue the case for the club. The YouTube video posted above demonstrates this perfectly. The entire issue is being framed as a problem, and the club are allowing this to continue by engaging objectors on their terms. There is a real need to reframe the issue as a positive for the community (by demonstrating some benefit, as mentioned above) and engage with people through a more positive context. Again, it's fairly basic stuff that anyone who works in PR/Comms would be able to help with & make a positive impact with in a matter of minutes, but we're content in sending out a man whose name is mud even with the people who have the most reason to like him!

There's a popular phrase used throughout politics - "if you're explaining, you're losing". That's what the club doing at the minute, and they're losing badly. You know why De Freitas and others are able to get away with the statements they're putting out in leaflets & promo material? It's because they've been able to build on the strength of (certain) public opinion & tap into the fears and concerns of the local population using a small number of statements and comments that, though not 100% accurate, mean a lot to people. It's all well & good saying that the development will be 850m away from the hospice, or 400m from the crem, but people would be less arsed about that if they had some sort of idea about how the stadium would benefit them directly. Change the general view of the development and you'll not only spend less time fighting a battle in enemy territory, you'll also put more strength behind the statements that you do make when addressing specific issues (such as transporting fans from the station).

Well said. I posted a while ago that without the support of the public this would be dead in the water. So I got slated as the Nimbys still do. It will never happen becuase of this.

Fenty needs to frame the stadium in terms of:

Jobs
Economic boost to the town
Tourism
Putting Grimsby on the map
Proving excellent facilities for the next generation

Not his bank balance

Quoted from GiveUsAG

I don't see how promotion and a stadium can be connected? Why can't we have both? Promotion is what we want now, a stadium is what want for the future.  

Of course we want both. But if you're a NIMBY, it's a much easier argument to say 'a non-league club doesn't need a new facility' than 'a newly-promoted club doesn't need a new facility'.

The attendances have stood up really well all things considered but the truth is that only a small percentage of the population of NE Lincs have signed the petition and an even smaller percentage actually go to BP.

I'd guess the vast majority who oppose a new ground don't support the club so are unlikely to care what our esteemed non-chairman does. Absolutely agree with Ska Face that we should be trying to paint positives for the community. It's very easy to argue why the Town doesn't need a new football ground but it would be a lot harder to argue that it doesn't need jobs creating, new leisure facilities, improved infra-structure.

What's absolutely certain is that labelling objections 'poppycock' and making this a battle between two sides will win nobody over. In fact it'll have the opposite effect and entrench views further. I suspect in Mr. Fenty's business that threats and ultimatums could be issued and minions would have to fall in line but that isn't going to work with this.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Fenty needs to frame the stadium in terms of:

Jobs
Economic boost to the town
Tourism
Putting Grimsby on the map
Proving excellent facilities for the next generation

Not his bank balance

This has been done and got us nowhere
De Freitas  says the new ground will have such an impact on both leisure centres, Bradley and King George that they will all go bust.( latest leaflet he is putting out)
I don't disagree we need to shout about all the positives the new COMUNITY stadium will bring but we do also need to say what the impact will be if we don't as well.
It pisses me off that allot on here are quicker to pull JF down for his efforts than they are to offer their help in getting it right.

Agree the club has to get the point across that the new stadium will benefit the club ,

BUT

Will also benefit the Peaks Parkway residents by supplying new jobs , new shopping outlets and new sport facilities for them and the town.

Lets start talking about the other things the stadium will bring to the area apart from the much needed ground.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

It pisses me off that allot on here are quicker to pull JF down for his efforts than they are to offer their help in getting it right.

That might be a little easier if his other efforts (relegations, debt, Mike Parker, Radio Humberside etc) hadn't been quite so calamitous.

Quoted from ska face

This bloke is absolutely killing me, I can't take it anymore.

I don't want to be overly critical, but this post might sound like I am being - so if you're one of those who won't hear a bad word said against him, then just stop reading now.


The problem here, and pretty much throughout this entire process, is that I'm yet to hear a single, quality, succinct statement on how this development will benefit the community. That's coming from someone who is on this board almost daily, follows the club religiously, reads & listens to almost everything that comes out of the club - so how the frig is Joe Bloggs going to know why they should support a new development? I know the club haven't decided on specifics yet, but again we keep hearing this "community" term bandied about without any explanation on how this will benefit the community. It's pretty basic.

The Look North piece was probably the biggest & best opportunity the club had to showcase the benefits of the development to hundreds of thousands of people. What happened? Fenty allowed, and pretty much encouraged, it to become a "discussion" (read "massive whinge") about his funding of the club and the possible negative implications of the development not going ahead. This bloke's supposed to be a politician, is he not? How the intercourse has he allowed that to happen? Now, I don't think anyone's expecting him to have delivered a performance straight from the Alastair Campbell school of spin, but Peter Levy is hardly Jeremy Paxman - would it really have been so difficult to...I dunno.... not let an interview designed to promote a development descend into a argument about how copulated we're going to be if/when everything goes to excrement and he is forced to leave?

The whole campaign is being run from the wrong angle, seemingly. Almost everything I've seen has been Fenty/the club pitting objectors / complainers / NIMBYs / etc. against the club's supporters, in some kind of fire-fighting excercise where people are expected pick through objections point-by-point and argue the case for the club. The YouTube video posted above demonstrates this perfectly. The entire issue is being framed as a problem, and the club are allowing this to continue by engaging objectors on their terms. There is a real need to reframe the issue as a positive for the community (by demonstrating some benefit, as mentioned above) and engage with people through a more positive context. Again, it's fairly basic stuff that anyone who works in PR/Comms would be able to help with & make a positive impact with in a matter of minutes, but we're content in sending out a man whose name is mud even with the people who have the most reason to like him!

There's a popular phrase used throughout politics - "if you're explaining, you're losing". That's what the club doing at the minute, and they're losing badly. You know why De Freitas and others are able to get away with the statements they're putting out in leaflets & promo material? It's because they've been able to build on the strength of (certain) public opinion & tap into the fears and concerns of the local population using a small number of statements and comments that, though not 100% accurate, mean a lot to people. It's all well & good saying that the development will be 850m away from the hospice, or 400m from the crem, but people would be less arsed about that if they had some sort of idea about how the stadium would benefit them directly. Change the general view of the development and you'll not only spend less time fighting a battle in enemy territory, you'll also put more strength behind the statements that you do make when addressing specific issues (such as transporting fans from the station).

I do agree with you, but I get the feeling we haven't heard anything positive is because he doesn't really know himself! I think he thought the word "community" should do the trick and then, well nothing. It is obvious to everyone surely that this is the chance for getting his loans back, and the lack of conviction implies that to me.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I do agree with you, but I get the feeling we haven't heard anything positive is because he doesn't really know himself! I think he thought the word "community" should do the trick and then, well nothing. It is obvious to everyone surely that this is the chance for getting his loans back, and the lack of conviction implies that to me.

Would love to see us in a newer, better, more appropriate stadium but would be far happier watch league football at Blundell Park this August. Sadly, I don't expect either.

Quoted from ska face

This bloke is absolutely killing me, I can't take it anymore.

I don't want to be overly critical, but this post might sound like I am being - so if you're one of those who won't hear a bad word said against him, then just stop reading now.


The problem here, and pretty much throughout this entire process, is that I'm yet to hear a single, quality, succinct statement on how this development will benefit the community. That's coming from someone who is on this board almost daily, follows the club religiously, reads & listens to almost everything that comes out of the club - so how the frig is Joe Bloggs going to know why they should support a new development? I know the club haven't decided on specifics yet, but again we keep hearing this "community" term bandied about without any explanation on how this will benefit the community. It's pretty basic.

The Look North piece was probably the biggest & best opportunity the club had to showcase the benefits of the development to hundreds of thousands of people. What happened? Fenty allowed, and pretty much encouraged, it to become a "discussion" (read "massive whinge") about his funding of the club and the possible negative implications of the development not going ahead. This bloke's supposed to be a politician, is he not? How the intercourse has he allowed that to happen? Now, I don't think anyone's expecting him to have delivered a performance straight from the Alastair Campbell school of spin, but Peter Levy is hardly Jeremy Paxman - would it really have been so difficult to...I dunno.... not let an interview designed to promote a development descend into a argument about how copulated we're going to be if/when everything goes to excrement and he is forced to leave?

The whole campaign is being run from the wrong angle, seemingly. Almost everything I've seen has been Fenty/the club pitting objectors / complainers / NIMBYs / etc. against the club's supporters, in some kind of fire-fighting excercise where people are expected pick through objections point-by-point and argue the case for the club. The YouTube video posted above demonstrates this perfectly. The entire issue is being framed as a problem, and the club are allowing this to continue by engaging objectors on their terms. There is a real need to reframe the issue as a positive for the community (by demonstrating some benefit, as mentioned above) and engage with people through a more positive context. Again, it's fairly basic stuff that anyone who works in PR/Comms would be able to help with & make a positive impact with in a matter of minutes, but we're content in sending out a man whose name is mud even with the people who have the most reason to like him!

There's a popular phrase used throughout politics - "if you're explaining, you're losing". That's what the club doing at the minute, and they're losing badly. You know why De Freitas and others are able to get away with the statements they're putting out in leaflets & promo material? It's because they've been able to build on the strength of (certain) public opinion & tap into the fears and concerns of the local population using a small number of statements and comments that, though not 100% accurate, mean a lot to people. It's all well & good saying that the development will be 850m away from the hospice, or 400m from the crem, but people would be less arsed about that if they had some sort of idea about how the stadium would benefit them directly. Change the general view of the development and you'll not only spend less time fighting a battle in enemy territory, you'll also put more strength behind the statements that you do make when addressing specific issues (such as transporting fans from the station).

Come on, let's be honest. The stadium benefits the club. All else is eyewash. Community? There's loads of community facilities in this town and everyone with half a brain realises you don't actually need a bloody big stadium if you want some more community facilities. That's why he's struggling. There is nothing in this for the locals and very little in it for the town as a whole. The only plus point that makes sense is that symbolic 'shows the town is in the 21st century and forward looking' mantra. But again, there is massively more benefit for the town as a whole in us getting promotion and doing a surge up the leagues than building a stadium. Look how Cambridge will have benefitted this year.

Now, I am very much in favour of a new ground but I'm also old enough to know that politicians don't pick a fight for the sake of it. JF is not lying but he is not telling the whole truth about the links with property developers and that is really what is getting people opposed to him. The objections in the GT are real but they are minor. The major objection is that the new ground will be eventually sit like BP in the middle of a residential area in another five or ten years time. It will be surrounded by houses and if the aim of league status is achieved and gates go to 5/6/7000 then congestion will be terrible and the allocated parking overrun. Apart from being concrete it will be as bad as BP.

So in a way you could say JF is being subtle or at least politically savvy, concentrating on the mini-problems and keeping quiet on the real issue which remains under wraps until the council unveils the contracts for the hundreds and thousands of houses. He hopes to get the support in place for the stadium before that happens because he knows what a controversy that will be.

I still don't understand the maths.

We sell Blundell Park and get what £500k or £1 million at best.

The new Rotherham stadium cost £20 million (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Stadium). Surely ours will cost less than this so let's be generous and say £10 million.

How does this result in Fenty getting his money back and GTFC cementing its long term financial future.

Before anyone says it you don't make a million quid a year out of a couple of conference rooms.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

This has been done and got us nowhere
De Freitas  says the new ground will have such an impact on both leisure centres, Bradley and King George that they will all go bust.( latest leaflet he is putting out)
I don't disagree we need to shout about all the positives the new COMUNITY stadium will bring but we do also need to say what the impact will be if we don't as well.
It pisses me off that allot on here are quicker to pull JF down for his efforts than they are to offer their help in getting it right.

I'm not a fenty hater but he is bloomin terrible at PR and for  politician he isn't very politically  savvy. My point is businesses don't win planning consent by saying there company will suffer if they don't get it. If for example Youngs wanted to build a new fish factory they wouldn't sell the scheme by telling everyone that Youngs was in financial danger they would talk about the benefits brought to the town in terms of  jobs and new business. Why should GTFC be any different?

The interview was poor because he concentrated on the negatives rather than selling a positive vision. I know John must be incredibly frustrated because most councils go out of there way to help their football clubs but he just needs to get over that take a deep breath and concentrating on selling the scheme in a positive way.

I don't have a problem with the youtube video pointing out inaccuracies of the Defreitas leaflets. But he then made a party political point scoring point which undermined his case. There does need to be a dedicated website for the new ground which has case studies about how new stadiums have helped local towns, rebuts the sillyness and has news about how people can get involved.

Quoted from psgmariner

I still don't understand the maths.

We sell Blundell Park and get what £500k or £1 million at best.

The new Rotherham stadium cost £20 million (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Stadium). Surely ours will cost less than this so let's be generous and say £10 million.

How does this result in Fenty getting his money back and GTFC cementing its long term financial future.

Before anyone says it you don't make a million quid a year out of a couple of conference rooms.

I think there will be at least 4 conference rooms.

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

I think there will be at least 4 conference rooms.

Ah, hadn't seen that.

That's that cleared up. Will sign the petition now.

I thought we had a director in charge of the new ground development. Shouldn't he be the person fronting this?

Quoted from ska face

This bloke is absolutely killing me, I can't take it anymore.

I don't want to be overly critical, but this post might sound like I am being - so if you're one of those who won't hear a bad word said against him, then just stop reading now.


The problem here, and pretty much throughout this entire process, is that I'm yet to hear a single, quality, succinct statement on how this development will benefit the community. That's coming from someone who is on this board almost daily, follows the club religiously, reads & listens to almost everything that comes out of the club - so how the frig is Joe Bloggs going to know why they should support a new development? I know the club haven't decided on specifics yet, but again we keep hearing this "community" term bandied about without any explanation on how this will benefit the community. It's pretty basic.

The Look North piece was probably the biggest & best opportunity the club had to showcase the benefits of the development to hundreds of thousands of people. What happened? Fenty allowed, and pretty much encouraged, it to become a "discussion" (read "massive whinge") about his funding of the club and the possible negative implications of the development not going ahead. This bloke's supposed to be a politician, is he not? How the intercourse has he allowed that to happen? Now, I don't think anyone's expecting him to have delivered a performance straight from the Alastair Campbell school of spin, but Peter Levy is hardly Jeremy Paxman - would it really have been so difficult to...I dunno.... not let an interview designed to promote a development descend into a argument about how copulated we're going to be if/when everything goes to excrement and he is forced to leave?

The whole campaign is being run from the wrong angle, seemingly. Almost everything I've seen has been Fenty/the club pitting objectors / complainers / NIMBYs / etc. against the club's supporters, in some kind of fire-fighting excercise where people are expected pick through objections point-by-point and argue the case for the club. The YouTube video posted above demonstrates this perfectly. The entire issue is being framed as a problem, and the club are allowing this to continue by engaging objectors on their terms. There is a real need to reframe the issue as a positive for the community (by demonstrating some benefit, as mentioned above) and engage with people through a more positive context. Again, it's fairly basic stuff that anyone who works in PR/Comms would be able to help with & make a positive impact with in a matter of minutes, but we're content in sending out a man whose name is mud even with the people who have the most reason to like him!

There's a popular phrase used throughout politics - "if you're explaining, you're losing". That's what the club doing at the minute, and they're losing badly. You know why De Freitas and others are able to get away with the statements they're putting out in leaflets & promo material? It's because they've been able to build on the strength of (certain) public opinion & tap into the fears and concerns of the local population using a small number of statements and comments that, though not 100% accurate, mean a lot to people. It's all well & good saying that the development will be 850m away from the hospice, or 400m from the crem, but people would be less arsed about that if they had some sort of idea about how the stadium would benefit them directly. Change the general view of the development and you'll not only spend less time fighting a battle in enemy territory, you'll also put more strength behind the statements that you do make when addressing specific issues (such as transporting fans from the station).

Your post above for me is 100% correct.

Defritarse has out manoeuvred, out thought and out done JF at every opportunity.  JF's response is a poor attempt that will only add fuel to those against it.  His claim that he is a martyr not only insults Town fans but gives more fuel for those who want him out. That or he is engineering a way out, either way it is negative.

If Fenty wants to mirror what they have done at Scunny he needs to employ a dynamic Chairman likes theirs who makes things happen because very time Fenty opens his mouth we take two steps back.

There are plenty of poster boards around Town, use them to promote then move to a new ground.
There are plenty of media outlets the club could pay for air time.
The lads who have produced some great videos could do another one and try and get it to go viral like the LJL one did.
Lampoon Fritarse as someone who has been to loads of Town games also that he isn't even from Grimsby and he is trying to stop Grimsby moving into a new era.

These are just some of the examples of how the club could be proactive and it only took me a few minutes.  Fenty needs to grab his balderdash and take the fight to defritarse rather than bitching that he has to put his hands in his pockets, after all it's his guidance that brought us here.

Quoted from psgmariner

I still don't understand the maths.

We sell Blundell Park and get what £500k or £1 million at best.

The new Rotherham stadium cost £20 million (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Stadium). Surely ours will cost less than this so let's be generous and say £10 million.

How does this result in Fenty getting his money back and GTFC cementing its long term financial future.

Before anyone says it you don't make a million quid a year out of a couple of conference rooms.

I think that the suggestion is that if we have a new stadium then we are more attractive to investors and therefore somebody will buy out John (and his loans).

Quoted from biggles9999

I think that the suggestion is that if we have a new stadium then we are more attractive to investors and therefore somebody will buy out John (and his loans).

I don't follow that logic as the level of debt would surely have risen. It's going to cost at least £10 million to build a new ground isn't it? Selling BP will release nowhere near that and not all the costs will be covered by grants etc.

I still remain to be convinced about the business sense in moving ground. I accept we can rent out a few conference rooms (is there really a massive shortage in GY at the mo?!) and the cost of maintaining a new ground will be less than BP but none of this seems to get close to the total cost of building a brand new stadium in a field off Peakes Parkway.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Your post above for me is 100% correct.

Defritarse has out manoeuvred, out thought and out done JF at every opportunity.  JF's response is a poor attempt that will only add fuel to those against it.  His claim that he is a martyr not only insults Town fans but gives more fuel for those who want him out. That or he is engineering a way out, either way it is negative.

If Fenty wants to mirror what they have done at Scunny he needs to employ a dynamic Chairman likes theirs who makes things happen because very time Fenty opens his mouth we take two steps back.

There are plenty of poster boards around Town, use them to promote then move to a new ground.
There are plenty of media outlets the club could pay for air time.
The lads who have produced some great videos could do another one and try and get it to go viral like the LJL one did.
Lampoon Fritarse as someone who has been to loads of Town games also that he isn't even from Grimsby and he is trying to stop Grimsby moving into a new era.

These are just some of the examples of how the club could be proactive and it only took me a few minutes.  Fenty needs to grab his balderdash and take the fight to defritarse rather than bitching that he has to put his hands in his pockets, after all it's his guidance that brought us here.

Sorry to disagree Mariners but those are minor and juvenile compared to the real problems. It does not matter if you covered every empty shop and billboard with pro-Town posters or took out ads on ITV. Scunthorpe is a false example. They did not use "community" as a selling point. It was a pure commercial activity on both the Glanford Park and the new site. Nothing to do with having a gobby chairman either. You have got to see past the DeFreitas crap and see that the Parkway business is a hell of a lot more serious than that. There are millions of pounds involved and a lot of the arguing is really about whose pocket that should finish up in. That's all behind the scenes, the other stuff is just a blind to keep the fans and message boards busy.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Sorry to disagree Mariners but those are minor and juvenile compared to the real problems. It does not matter if you covered every empty shop and billboard with pro-Town posters or took out ads on ITV. Scunthorpe is a false example. They did not use "community" as a selling point. It was a pure commercial activity on both the Glanford Park and the new site. Nothing to do with having a gobby chairman either. You have got to see past the DeFreitas crap and see that the Parkway business is a hell of a lot more serious than that. There are millions of pounds involved and a lot of the arguing is really about whose pocket that should finish up in. That's all behind the scenes, the other stuff is just a blind to keep the fans and message boards busy.

I can see what you are saying and partially agree, the points I raised though are the aesthetics that can be publicised and debated, your points can not due to libellous laws and I am keeping out of that side of things and so should the fishy.

When the club wanted to move to Great Coats the council asked all the wards in N E Lincs if they wanted a new stadium. I would be very interested to know how the people of peaks parkway area voted when it was proposed for someone else's back yard. The council must have some records of the results available.

Quoted from psgmariner

I don't follow that logic as the level of debt would surely have risen. It's going to cost at least £10 million to build a new ground isn't it? Selling BP will release nowhere near that and not all the costs will be covered by grants etc.

I think their grand strategy is to get the construction of the ground subsidised by huge amounts of housing and some sort of retail development. Why housing developers would have to go through GTFC to build, I don't lknow, and why should the club benefit financially rather than Grimsby? If someone could explain please.

[img]http://puu.sh/g3C3U/4003c82828.png[/img]

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.....52-detail/story.html

Quoted from Southwark Mariner

I think their grand strategy is to get the construction of the ground subsidised by huge amounts of housing and some sort of retail development. Why housing developers would have to go through GTFC to build, I don't lknow, and why should the club benefit financially rather than Grimsby? If someone could explain please.

[img]http://puu.sh/g3C3U/4003c82828.png[/img]

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.....52-detail/story.html

The clubs stake in this is simply to get the ground built and JF is trying to get the Local Plan implemented by specific developers who would be willing to finance the new stadium.

Therefore the real obstacles are a) getting the local plan through the council and b) the specific developers given the council's blessing.

The real questions are  a) is the housing necessary at all b) if it is needed, is this the right place and c) what impact will the housing eventually have on the stadium and associated traffic and parking issues when it is to be located amongst all that residential housing.

So the argument is not about DeFreitas or NIMBYs from Weelsby Avenue at all, it is about whether the ground would in fact be any better located in a residential area on the Parkway than it is in the middle of Cleethorpes.

It is a cleft stick, Catch-22. If the Parkway is a good site it is because the ground is away from residential problems but to build it on the Parkway requires money from people who want to surround it with residential development!

Must admit looking at the plan it shows the existing bridge over the peaks park way to be used as one of the pedestian access point to the new stadium. I actually think that would look great with loads of GTFC fans crossing over the bridge to a game.

can somebody tell me who currently owns the proposed site, if it is council owned, are the club asking to be given the land, or buy it at agricultural prices, i.e £8 to 10k an acre.  Once obtained, the council then grant planning permission for a mixed development, therefore increasing the land price to a million pound per acre,  OR if the land is privately owned, the club do a deal with the land owner, to be granted planning, share the spoils, and town get a new stadium;  well its a no brainer, a tory councillor owner, a labour controlled council, awash with money.  New stadium on its way.

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

Must admit looking at the plan it shows the existing bridge over the peaks park way to be used as one of the pedestian access point to the new stadium. I actually think that would look great with loads of GTFC fans crossing over the bridge to a game.

Yes, I'm not too certain I'd want to drive under there on a match day, especially if we'd just lost to Telford!    

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Yes, I'm not too certain I'd want to drive under there on a match day, especially if we'd just lost to Telford!    

Will Telford be in the Championship with us, or do you mean when we play them in the FA Cup and get giant killed?

UTM

Quoted from BS baffles brains

can somebody tell me who currently owns the proposed site, if it is council owned, are the club asking to be given the land, or buy it at agricultural prices, i.e £8 to 10k an acre.  Once obtained, the council then grant planning permission for a mixed development, therefore increasing the land price to a million pound per acre,  OR if the land is privately owned, the club do a deal with the land owner, to be granted planning, share the spoils, and town get a new stadium;  well its a no brainer, a tory councillor owner, a labour controlled council, awash with money.  New stadium on its way.

As I understand it the land is owned by NE Lincs Council.

Well its all sorted then,  The council will give thirty or forty acres of land to GTFC, a commercial enterprise, who will sell said land on for housing etc., for thirty million plus, build a new stadium, and every one in North East Lincs. will be honky dory. Roll on new stadium

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

Must admit looking at the plan it shows the existing bridge over the peaks park way to be used as one of the pedestian access point to the new stadium. I actually think that would look great with loads of GTFC fans crossing over the bridge to a game.

It doesn't really detract from your point but that plan is of the intended ground at Great Coates......The road is a dual carriageway and the railway line runs along the back..

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

The clubs stake in this is simply to get the ground built and JF is trying to get the Local Plan implemented by specific developers who would be willing to finance the new stadium.

Therefore the real obstacles are a) getting the local plan through the council and b) the specific developers given the council's blessing.

The real questions are  a) is the housing necessary at all b) if it is needed, is this the right place and c) what impact will the housing eventually have on the stadium and associated traffic and parking issues when it is to be located amongst all that residential housing.

So the argument is not about DeFreitas or NIMBYs from Weelsby Avenue at all, it is about whether the ground would in fact be any better located in a residential area on the Parkway than it is in the middle of Cleethorpes.

It is a cleft stick, Catch-22. If the Parkway is a good site it is because the ground is away from residential problems but to build it on the Parkway requires money from people who want to surround it with residential development!

Ron, I think you've hit the nail on the head. The problem is with the proposed method of funding, not the location.

I know there's not a cat in hell's chance of this happening, but if the whole thing genuinely was a community stadium paid for and owned by the council it could be developed in a way that did offer proper sporting facilities linked to the stadium for the whole community. There wouldn't be any need for dubious subsidies of private developers benefitting indirectly from the donation/knock down sale of public land. It could be a proper investment. In people's health and well-being. You know, like in the old days just after the War when council's built swimming pools, schools, well-planned proper housing estates with decent houses, playgrounds and playing fields, libraries etc. Instead of jumping through hoops to attract "innovative" methods of finance in pursuit of dubious economic doctrines against public borrowing for investment.

Quoted from psgmariner

I still don't understand the maths.

We sell Blundell Park and get what £500k or £1 million at best.

The new Rotherham stadium cost £20 million (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Stadium). Surely ours will cost less than this so let's be generous and say £10 million.

How does this result in Fenty getting his money back and GTFC cementing its long term financial future.

Before anyone says it you don't make a million quid a year out of a couple of conference rooms.

Careful, you're not allowed to question the economics of the Great Scheme on this site. Or you weren't when I asked the same question a few months ago.

Quoted from ska face

This bloke is absolutely killing me, I can't take it anymore.

I don't want to be overly critical, but this post might sound like I am being - so if you're one of those who won't hear a bad word said against him, then just stop reading now.


The problem here, and pretty much throughout this entire process, is that I'm yet to hear a single, quality, succinct statement on how this development will benefit the community. That's coming from someone who is on this board almost daily, follows the club religiously, reads & listens to almost everything that comes out of the club - so how the frig is Joe Bloggs going to know why they should support a new development? I know the club haven't decided on specifics yet, but again we keep hearing this "community" term bandied about without any explanation on how this will benefit the community. It's pretty basic.

The Look North piece was probably the biggest & best opportunity the club had to showcase the benefits of the development to hundreds of thousands of people. What happened? Fenty allowed, and pretty much encouraged, it to become a "discussion" (read "massive whinge") about his funding of the club and the possible negative implications of the development not going ahead. This bloke's supposed to be a politician, is he not? How the intercourse has he allowed that to happen? Now, I don't think anyone's expecting him to have delivered a performance straight from the Alastair Campbell school of spin, but Peter Levy is hardly Jeremy Paxman - would it really have been so difficult to...I dunno.... not let an interview designed to promote a development descend into a argument about how copulated we're going to be if/when everything goes to excrement and he is forced to leave?

The whole campaign is being run from the wrong angle, seemingly. Almost everything I've seen has been Fenty/the club pitting objectors / complainers / NIMBYs / etc. against the club's supporters, in some kind of fire-fighting excercise where people are expected pick through objections point-by-point and argue the case for the club. The YouTube video posted above demonstrates this perfectly. The entire issue is being framed as a problem, and the club are allowing this to continue by engaging objectors on their terms. There is a real need to reframe the issue as a positive for the community (by demonstrating some benefit, as mentioned above) and engage with people through a more positive context. Again, it's fairly basic stuff that anyone who works in PR/Comms would be able to help with & make a positive impact with in a matter of minutes, but we're content in sending out a man whose name is mud even with the people who have the most reason to like him!

There's a popular phrase used throughout politics - "if you're explaining, you're losing". That's what the club doing at the minute, and they're losing badly. You know why De Freitas and others are able to get away with the statements they're putting out in leaflets & promo material? It's because they've been able to build on the strength of (certain) public opinion & tap into the fears and concerns of the local population using a small number of statements and comments that, though not 100% accurate, mean a lot to people. It's all well & good saying that the development will be 850m away from the hospice, or 400m from the crem, but people would be less arsed about that if they had some sort of idea about how the stadium would benefit them directly. Change the general view of the development and you'll not only spend less time fighting a battle in enemy territory, you'll also put more strength behind the statements that you do make when addressing specific issues (such as transporting fans from the station).

Good post mate, and I agree - here was yet another bungled media interaction; a really good opportunity to do and say something positive about the desire and plan for a new stadium and the progressive approach of Grimsby Town. It was wasted as it quickly became all about one thing and one man. Put it on the long list of PR triumphs.

Fenty on Humberside this morning, discussing the ground!

What time mate?

Just before 10 apparently, talking about it all morning though. could be interesting

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Just before 10 apparently, talking about it all morning though. could be interesting

If that coincides with Mr David Burns slot then it will be very interesting, Burnsy certainly knows how to get a reaction out of J.F

It's very good so far I think. John is speaking eloquently, and is even handed and informed, and Burns is asking good questions and challenging where required. Good to hear both of these aspects for a change.

what the fook is he babbling on about? had 15 minutes to paint it in a positive spin and just talked at length about planning process and great coates.

Quoted from chaos33

It's very good so far I think. John is speaking very eloquently, and is even handed and informed, and Burns is asking good questions and challenging where required. Good to hear both of these aspects for a change.

he had an opportunity to go into detail about the positive impact this could have on the town and he didn't really touch on it, he needs to bloody sell his idea and he didn't, getting bogged down in planning process is not only boring it doesn't help the cause. He briefly touched on jobs and the economy, he should have been hammering that out as it's a huge selling point, he should have been banging on about bringing prosperity and putting the town on the map. wasted opportunity!

I'm usually a critic and he probably could have done that a bit better but I think those 2 posts above are a little harsh. I though Fenty did quite a good job on this occasion.

Who is the negative season ticket holder on the radio at the moment?

It was a better interview than his TV appearance but still letting the interviewers lead rather than taking the bull by the horns and making it something that has to be enabled because of the benefits to the town.

Could you imagine any other town that has a football with history like ours not have it at the forefront of planning and at it's heart.  The club is steeped in the fabric of the town and over 30,000, 28,000, 25,000 went to Wembley, people who are associated with the town.

If any councillor is against the club then they need confronting, especially Defitarse who isn't even from Grimsby, were is he from.

Any chance of a link ?

Quoted from Marinerz93

It was a better interview than his TV appearance but still letting the interviewers lead rather than taking the bull by the horns and making it something that has to be enabled because of the benefits to the town.

Could you imagine any other town that has a football with history like ours not have it at the forefront of planning and at it's heart.  The club is steeped in the fabric of the town and over 30,000, 28,000, 25,000 went to Wembley, people who are associated with the town.

If any councillor is against the club then they need confronting, especially Defitarse who isn't even from Grimsby, were is he from.

Tbf De Freitas has been in Grimsby for more than 50 yrs many of which as a councillor. I' d that he is very consistent in his views about preserving green spaces whether that involves GTFC or not.

As a resident of his ward my main gripe is that rather than listening to people and representing them he pushes his own views on residents ( I am not just talking about the proposed new ground here)

Quoted from BIGChris

[/b]

Tbf De Freitas has been in Grimsby for more than 50 yrs many of which as a councillor. I' d that he is very consistent in his views about preserving green spaces whether that involves GTFC or not.

As a resident of his ward my main gripe is that rather than listening to people and representing them he pushes his own views on residents ( I am not just talking about the proposed new ground here)

Fair point Chris but this town has gone backwards over the last few decades, so not only is he part of that decline he is stopping the club from going forward, to coin a phrase he is a dinosaur, especially as you say if he is pushing his own views he is not representing the people who put him in charge of the ward.

We need to challenge Defirtarse at every opportunity, but in a civil manner.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Fair point Chris but this town has gone backwards over the last few decades, so not only is he part of that decline he is stopping the club from going forward, to coin a phrase he is a dinosaur, especially as you say if he is pushing his own views he is not representing the people who put him in charge of the ward.

We need to challenge Defirtarse at every opportunity, but in a civil manner.

Civil manner?? use his proper name then

Quoted from Marinerz93

It was a better interview than his TV appearance but still letting the interviewers lead rather than taking the bull by the horns and making it something that has to be enabled because of the benefits to the town.

Could you imagine any other town that has a football with history like ours not have it at the forefront of planning and at it's heart. The club is steeped in the fabric of the town and over 30,000, 28,000, 25,000 went to Wembley, people who are associated with the town.

If any councillor is against the club then they need confronting, especially Defitarse who isn't even from Grimsby, were is he from.

Many of whom do not live here of course.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Fair point Chris but this town has gone backwards over the last few decades, so not only is he part of that decline he is stopping the club from going forward, to coin a phrase he is a dinosaur, especially as you say if he is pushing his own views he is not representing the people who put him in charge of the ward.

We need to challenge Defirtarse at every opportunity, but in a civil manner.

He was not born or raised in Grimsby and only came here in his twenties from French Guiana I believe.He also spent his first few months/years here at the YMCA and probably has an allegience to this area.  My question therefore is:
How does he know what the club means to the residents of the area and what growing up with the club and those memories/feelings/allegences being passed down from generation to generation?

Quoted from oldun

Civil manner?? use his proper name then

Civil manner in person, not on here, I'll treat him with the contempt he deserves on here.

Heard party of JF interview on radio Humberside, and the part about, not all 1600 houses, needed to be built near the proposed new ground, idea to spread  them across the N.E Lincs area, and that GTFC are in discussion with land owners, well if some one can pass this on, my mate has ten acres of agricultural land, with no chance of planning, worth about 90k, but if JF can get him planning , has part of this football ground scheme, he reckons he would give £2 million towards the stadium, when he sells the land on for £7 million, any one else got any land, cracking idea, I'm taking down my garden shed at the weekend, see what space I've got. UTM

He's been a regular at BP before, sitting in the Pontoon iirc. Personally I find him a poisonous little excrement who opposes progress, something that has plagued GY for many years.
I made a point on the survey about me coming to GY and spending my money there for one reason eg. GTFC and that the Council need to do all they can to protect this valuable asset, rather than obstructing something that would go a long way to securing it's future.

I live in his borough and he knocked on my door yesterday collectin names for his petition.i gave him it both barrels about how the council should support the clubs need to move.
His gripe seems to be with JF.not happy about the way he goes about business his main fighting point is the building of the houses.
He says the club should build on the other side of railway near BP

Quoted from carp catcher

He says the club should build on the other side of railway near BP

Interesting.

Who owns it?

Isn't that mostly beach area?!

Will still be traffic problems but when we only get 3000 most week that's hardly an issue.

One of the key problems here is the phrase "on the other side of the railway". Changing (or working around) major infrastructure such as railway lines would cost an absolute flipping arm and a leg. No to mention the appalling congestion problems you'd have attempting to get in and out with the road layout around there. A non-starter, I'd have thought.

There is no way the ground would be built on the other side of the single line (railway) due to infrastructure problems as Maringer says above.

Really lads this his not about a certain councillor, its about GTFC, a private enterprise, with no money to build or acquire a new stadium, needing a hand out. The said " hand out" being council land or agricultural land worth about 10 thousand quid an acre being turned in to prime building land worth between, 700 thousand to a million quid an acre..This land, sold on to develop a community stadium.  Town get their bit, the land owners make a killing, the builders make their bit. The problem is at what price to GTFC buy or acquire the land ?  UTM

Quoted from carp catcher

He says the club should build on the other side of railway near BP

If that is true then the guy should lose any credibility he has, nowhere near enough space, even worse access than we currently have (but i suppose he would suggest that a GTFC platform or siding could be built for use on matchdays and we all catch the train to the game) and just demonstrates that he is a NIMBY as there are even more homes effected in that area than there would be by the Peaks Parkway proposal.

Quoted from moosey_club

If that is true then the guy should lose any credibility he has, nowhere near enough space, even worse access than we currently have (but i suppose he would suggest that a GTFC platform or siding could be built for use on matchdays and we all catch the train to the game) and just demonstrates that he is a NIMBY as there are even more homes effected in that area than there would be by the Peaks Parkway proposal.

When this location was originally suggested (many years ago) it was thought that it would be part of a development along the foreshore including a new road to relieve traffic from Riby Square to Cleethorpes and a railway terminus to replace Cleethorpes.

Obviously it was financial pie in the sky but the biggest nail in the coffin was the council's ploy of developing the south end of the resort at the expense of the north end. The housing estates at Middlethorpe and the retail park, bowling alley, cinema, new hotel ...... were all given planning permission on greenfield sites very easily indeed. So easily that someone surely should have asked questions, especially about how they are accessed or more correctly not accessed by traffic.

Any development at the north end would of course mean much harder and more expensive planning and work, not least because some of it is owned by the railway.

So the issue of Town's ground was shelved long ago and the land over the railway has been a non-starter for some years apart from an abortive enquiry about making part of it into a car park for BP. You would expect Mr DeFreitas to know all this.

Quoted from carp catcher

I live in his borough and he knocked on my door yesterday collectin names for his petition.i gave him it both barrels about how the council should support the clubs need to move.
His gripe seems to be with JF.not happy about the way he goes about business his main fighting point is the building of the houses.
He says the club should build on the other side of railway near BP

Well done for letting him know what you thought and now the revelation that this is indeed personal he should be removed from anything to do with this at council meetings.

Quoted from carp catcher

I live in his borough and he knocked on my door yesterday collectin names for his petition.i gave him it both barrels about how the council should support the clubs need to move.
His gripe seems to be with JF.not happy about the way he goes about business his main fighting point is the building of the houses.
He says the club should build on the other side of railway near BP

The bloke is completely clueless