What is Hurst smoking?

Quoted from Maringer

(Edit: replying to DHM)

The main point where we differ is that I don't think the squad is particularly good and I don't think a new manager would be able to make much of a difference. It is probably marginally better than last season's squad and that was marginally better than the one the season before, but the general standard of the central midfielders just isn't good enough for a title-winning team and we have no depth in the forwards. For me, the idea that Hurst's managerial problems are down to a lack of tactical nouse ignores the fact that the problems lie within the abilities of the players themselves. When players don't put in a good enough performance to win a game, there's a pretty good chance that this is because they simply aren't good enough and not due to the way the team is set up.

Hurst's failure to sign enough strikers at the beginning of the season has cost us points and this is an error that I have continued to criticise. Just think where we might be had we signed somebody such as Palmer at the start of the season? Having a couple of strikers on 10+ goals would have made a big difference. Unfortunately, as feared, Pittman has been in and out due to his recurring injuries so he's only played in around half of our games this season. This means we've been basically left with just Hannah who isn't in any sort of decent form to try and back up LJL.

In midfield, Disley was dropped early in the season but after returning to the team has proven to be our most consistent central midfielder. Despite this, you wouldn't describe him as the most dynamic player you've ever seen, would you? Brown has been the biggest disappointment to me. Looked really sharp at the start of the season but has since been in and out with some injuries since then and hasn't really performed well for months that I can remember. Clay has put in the odd decent performance here and there but has also not looked right following various niggling injuries. Pell did OK for a couple of games on loan before dropping right off and, of course, McLaughlin has never been in favour so has only been a bit part player (amazed he didn't leave in the summer, to tell the truth). I reckon that the 33 year-old Disley is probably the quickest of our central midfielders and, in this division, that just isn't good enough.

To summarise, I think our strike force as a whole is weak and our central midfielders aren't good enough. One of the key points on Saturday (as so often) is that we lose the midfield battle. Our central midfielders don't have any real pace or strength between them and they aren't skilful enough to pass it around the opposition. This, and the lack of goals from the forwards, is why we are likely to fail to win promotion.

It's Hurst's team so he can be blamed for these weaknesses in the squad (though I don't know how likely it would be that a new manager would do much better with the budget available next season), but I just don't think a new manager would be able to make any real difference with the players available.

Quoted from diehardmariner

No.  Our problem is the bloke stood with his arms folded on the side of the pitch.

Even minus the much spoken about Thomas and Neilson this squad is good enough, more than good enough, to go up.  The biggest hindrance is the tactics, or lack of them.

We've not progressed at all under Hurst in the last two years.  Any notion that he will take us up via the play-offs is completely deluded.  He has been constantly out thought by any remotely competent manager since he's been here.    His sole tactic of soaking up pressure and picking teams off with single goal wins is fine, but we've not got the players to do it.  At the back we're ok, over reliant on Magnay and Pearson a bit too much for my liking but otherwise we're far too inconsistent.  We're not quick enough on the break, we depend on goals from a guy who is prone to purple patches.  We don't have enough energy where it matters.  Just simply not suited to that tactic.  

From back to front it's clear, to me anyway, that we have a wealth of players who are desperate for the shackles to be taken off and actually have a proper go at teams.

Worst thing for me is not the defeats, the boring style of football, the fact we seem devoid of any excitement but that there's an ever creeping sense of apathy.  Saturday's performance was so sub-standard it should have been an embarrassment, there should have been at least some outrage at it - yet another chance to make up ground on the top sides wasted.  Instead it was a collective shrug of the shoulders.  

We're at the cross-roads Luton were at two years ago.  Stick with the status quo and be there or there abouts for the play-offs or be bold, accept that the last four years have been absolutely pointless and make a brave decision.

Worst case scenario, we make a change and it backfires and we finish 6th.    That's the worst we can hope for.   Stick as we are and we'll more than likely fall at the semi-final stage of the play-offs.....just as the last two seasons.

In the highly unlikely event, I'm talking bloody lottery winning chances of happening, we fluke our way through the play-offs and we go up - does anyone actually believe Hurst would be capable of doing anything in the league?
Poster earlier on this thread got slated for saying he didn't want to go up with Hurst in charge, I can't say I disagree with him.  Of course the priority is just to get out of this league, however I've no confidence he would do anything than lead us straight back down.  

Quoted from Maringer

He's scored 13 goals so far this season, a total bettered by 4 players.

In comparison, Parkin (obviously a more capable player), has been on a great scoring run over the past month or two and is now up to 16 goals though he's also made half a dozen more appearances.

Don't forget that LJL is leading the line, often with little support. On Saturday, I'd say Blissett showed he was a good target man and certainly did a better job in this role than Lenny. On the other hand, he's only scored 9 goals this season from a similar number of appearances.

Our problem isn't LJL. It's the fact that all our other strikers combined have scored less goals than LJL alone!

Quoted from diehardmariner

When Hurst and Scott took over how long did they get to get us promoted?  I'm sure it was something like a three-year plan.

Back end of 10/11 - Total write-off, as crappy as it was throwing away all those 2 goal leads it wasn't their team so can't fault them for anything in that campaign.  
11/12 - Brought in a spine (McKeown, Pearson, Disley, Hearn) and we made massive improvements.  At this point I thought we were going somewhere even though we failed to make the play-offs at least we had hope for the future.  I think the majority accepted this was a building phase.
12/13 - More consistent, better additions made to the squad (2 years into a 3 plan to get to the Cup Final and Semi-Final of the Play-Offs isn't bad going).
13/14 - Absolutely no progress at all.

That's the 3-year plan gone.  The fact Hurst got this year after a season of no progress was a surprise, surely to god this season should have been excrement or bust!

Hurst and Scott moved us from a side lurking on the edge of the play-offs (but never having enough to make serious in-roads) into a side that was at best challenging for the title - at worst a play-off side.

Since Hurst has taken over solo we've become a side that's grateful to be losing at home to a promotion rival and taking a positive from it.   That for me is going backwards.  

Much was made of Hurst as the 'brains' of the two, especially when Scott was sacked.  I'm not sure that's actually the case.

I don't subscribe to the notion that we need a screaming lunatic on the sidelines but for the first time since he was dismissed, I was thinking we missed Scott on Saturday.    

Quoted from ginnywings

That's the way i see it. No progress made and i think Hurst has taken us as far as he's likely to unless we have a great run of good fortune.

In 2012/13, we finished 4th and averaged 1.8 points per game. In 2013/14 we again finished 4th but averaged 1.7 points per game. We are still 4th and still averaging 1.7 points per game, in what is a weaker league IMO. Progress?

A lot of people think it's a big gamble to change managers at this point in a season with us looking fairly good for the play offs, but sometimes you have to be bold and have direction. Maybe it's that just a change of face and different approach is all that's needed. Sometimes a change for change sake is the answer as things can eventually get stale.

I remember the outrage when Madkins got sacked from Southampton after he had rescued them from near obscurity and rampaged back to the top, but their board knew he had taken them as far as he could and if they wanted to cement their place in the Prem, they needed better than the parochial Adkins. Where are they now?

If you look, there are plenty of examples of new managers getting more out of the same players in a relatively short space of time. Unfortunately those sorts of managers get thinner on the ground, the further you go down the leagues and the board would argue that to change now would be madness. Well, doing the same thing for 4 seasons and expecting a different outcome is madness too.