Dayle Southwell

Dayle has had  his contract at Boston extended until the end of next season .      If he continues to improve at the rate he has done so far it is unlikely we will be able to hold on to him after the end of this season .

Cool.

I thought he had turned it down.

What a difference a few months make.....not wanted by Town and released.....to now playing hardball over a new contract at his next club.....fair play to him, obviously not feeling sorry for himself after his release from his home club and maybe has made him more determined.  

What system do Boston play?  Maybe it fits in more with the way he plays, obviously he's getting more chances in front of goal.

Sometimes you have to take a step backward to make two steps foreward, good luck to him.

Quoted from bostonian

Dayle has had  his contract at Boston extended until the end of next season .      If he continues to improve at the rate he has done so far it is unlikely we will be able to hold on to him after the end of this season .

Crikey. We should have given him several more seasons to almost make it in the league that puts all others to shame - the Vanarama Conference.

And where do you think his next destination is - don't tell me - the English Premier League beckons.

I wonder if we have a sell on clause?

That's good news for you guys. Let's be honest, were he not an ex-player of ours his name would certainly come up in potential signing conversations - 19 goals by early Feb is a great return and he must be hopeful of 25+. Well done the lad, hope he makes a career in the pro game.

Is it 2 up from the conference north, champions and 1 via playoffs?

Boston still in the running http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/conference-north/table

They have 4 ex-town players by my reckoning (southwell, garner, marshall, n.walker)

Good luck to the guy. Hope Boston come up.

Quoted from Nelly GTFC

What system do Boston play?  Maybe it fits in more with the way he plays, obviously he's getting more chances in front of goal.

Sometimes you have to take a step backward to make two steps foreward, good luck to him.

We mainly play with two wingers but Dayle scores very few with his head .   great with the ball on the ground .

In answer to another poster , no there is no sell-on clause.

there is an Ex-GTFC Player thread at the top of the page.

Maybe there is, but that's usually where people dump information about Tyrone Thompson or Lewis Gobern. Personally, I think our own homegrown players deserve a thread of their own every now and then. After all, there's two former players who get a couple a week.

Great stuff for Dayle and indeed Boston.

Never really had a fair crack of the whip here for me.  Always thought he offered something when he did get a chance and was disappointed we didn't give him another year.

I would rather have had Southwell as an option from the bench this year than Hannah.

I said at the time he was still developing,

Give him another year and loan him to Boston,

Sometimes clubs ( not just Grimsby ) get rid too quick.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I said at the time he was still developing,

Give him another year and loan him to Boston,

Sometimes clubs ( not just Grimsby ) get rid too quick.

I think it is often a question of finance Pete, decisions have to be made sooner rather than letting players develop at lower levels because clubs cant afford to gamble. For everyone who develops on there are probably 9 or 10 who dont make it.

IIRC when Matty Bird had a 'trial' at Man U their coaches stated all their YT's got a pro contract because they didnt know at 18 if they would develop or not. Clubs lower down the ladder dont have that luxury

Dont get me wrong, I liked Dayle, he was certainly the shining light within the Youth set up from a young age and if anyone was capable of pushing on, it looked like him in many eyes

Needs to be back here with Northy, Bradley and Peter B, where they belong

Quoted from BIGChris

I think it is often a question of finance Pete, decisions have to be made sooner rather than letting players develop at lower levels because clubs cant afford to gamble. For everyone who develops on there are probably 9 or 10 who dont make it.

IIRC when Matty Bird had a 'trial' at Man U their coaches stated all their YT's got a pro contract because they didnt know at 18 if they would develop or not. Clubs lower down the ladder dont have that luxury

Dont get me wrong, I liked Dayle, he was certainly the shining light within the Youth set up from a young age and if anyone was capable of pushing on, it looked like him in many eyes

You only have to look at the increasing number of players not making it at league clubs (not even big league clubs), dropping into the non-league and then returning to an even higher than original level once they've fully developed.

Thankfully this 'safety net' is working in some respects but for the vast majority they become disillusioned upon release from said league club and never return to the game.

How much does it cost to fund a two-year professional contract for an 18-year-old.  For two 18-year-olds every year?  Forgot that sum, because whatever it is will be absolutely insignificant to the sheer amount of zero's on the latest Premier League TV deal.  

The slightest drip from that gravy boat would work wonders for clubs, such as Town, in giving the young lads that extra time they need to develop.  If they don't make it, fine.  What has been lost, maybe a distinctly average Austrian fringe holding midfielder at a dull and predictable mid-table Premier League side will get a slightly decreased appearance bonus?

Back of a ciggy packet workings here:

First year professional contract: £300
Rough workings of 25% employer contributions.

Cost of a one-year contract for a first year pro - £19,500.  Two lads on that contract = £39,000 a year.

72 clubs (League One, League Two, Conference) each with two lads on a first year contract = £2,808,000.  Just shy of 3 million for an additional 144 lads getting an additional year to develop.

As of 2016/17 the team that finishes bottom of the Premier League will get £99million.  They could get no points, score no goals, might not even win a bloody corner and they get £99million in prize money!

The cost of 144 young professionals at League One, Two and Conference levels is 2.84% of the prize money for said side that finished bottom of the Premier League.

I don't get this reasoning that Premier League clubs should be contributing towards lower league clubs.

People all over the world want to pay to watch or sponsor the Premier League teams. They earn that money, they haven't stolen it from Grimsby, Lincoln, Boston or whoever else. Premier League clubs would gain absolute fook all from Grimsby keeping an 18 year old rookie on for an extra year so why on earth should they have to pay for it?!

Like it or loathe it the Premier League is a MASSIVE commercial success. I kind of get the argument that they should put something in to grass roots (e.g. school playing fields etc) but to say they should prop up failing business like GTFC etc is just weird in my opinion.

Quoted from psgmariner

I don't get this reasoning that Premier League clubs should be contributing towards lower league clubs.

People all over the world want to pay to watch or sponsor the Premier League teams. They earn that money, they haven't stolen it from Grimsby, Lincoln, Boston or whoever else. Premier League clubs would gain absolute fook all from Grimsby keeping an 18 year old rookie on for an extra year so why on earth should they have to pay for it?!

Like it or loathe it the Premier League is a MASSIVE commercial success. I kind of get the argument that they should put something in to grass roots (e.g. school playing fields etc) but to say they should prop up failing business like GTFC etc is just weird in my opinion.

Gee! very benevolent of you, without the so called grass roots there would be a Premiship of all foreign players managed by foreign managers ( nearly there now)

Interest of the national game perhaps?

Quoted from diehardmariner

Interest of the national game perhaps?

That's the FA's lookout not the Premier League's.

Quoted from Garth

Gee! very benevolent of you, without the so called grass roots there would be a Premiship of all foreign players managed by foreign managers ( nearly there now)

Have you seen how many kids the teams like Man City in their academies? It's a tough thing to say but they don't need grass roots really. If a kid looks good they sign him up at 8 years old and then coach him themselves.

I'm not saying this is the right way to do things but it's the truth. Lower league clubs are largely irrelevant to the success of the Premier League so personally I can't see why they would waste their collective money on it.

Also as Wet Flannel says in the other thread about this the logical conclusion of this distribution of wealth would be for GTFC to give some of their BT money to Cleethorpes Town which I am sure you will agree is bonkers.

He did enough in his last season to warrant a deal in my opinion. We were struggling for a striker in the summer and signed Pittman, is he any better? Is Hannah? Just asking...

Quoted from diehardmariner

Interest of the national game perhaps?

When the Prem was formed it had the blessing of the FA on the understanding that it would benefit the whole of the English game. The Prem has consistently reneged on that promise and the FA has done FA about it because the Prem would simply walk away and be an independent commercial activity like Indian cricket.

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

there is an Ex-GTFC Player thread at the top of the page.

bore off. personally I'm pleased to hear how he's getting on

Quoted from BIGChris

I think it is often a question of finance Pete, decisions have to be made sooner rather than letting players develop at lower levels because clubs cant afford to gamble. For everyone who develops on there are probably 9 or 10 who dont make it.

IIRC when Matty Bird had a 'trial' at Man U their coaches stated all their YT's got a pro contract because they didnt know at 18 if they would develop or not. Clubs lower down the ladder dont have that luxury

Dont get me wrong, I liked Dayle, he was certainly the shining light within the Youth set up from a young age and if anyone was capable of pushing on, it looked like him in many eyes

That's why I said loan him to Boston Chris,

We give him another 1 year contract and Boston pay his wages,

If it did not work out, we have lost very little,

As it looks now, we have lost a decent player or a few quid on his transfer fee.

Back to Dayle anyway, I saw them versus Lowestoft and Colwyn Bay. Two of 3 consecutive 5 goal home hauls for the mighty Pilgrims. Against Lowestoft Dayle took one of his goals particularly well. Shaun Pearson was sat just behind me at Colwyn Bay game - good on him. Southwell appears to be forming a good partnership with Mark Jones who impressed a couple of seasons back when I went to York Street for the Histon game when current Boston manager Dennis Greene was in charge of the Cambridgeshire outfit. I'd like to see Boston come up a la PSGMariner but I think their games already played will be their undoing. Most teams around them are within a point or two and have upwards of two games in hand. Anyone who does make the trip to York Street should go in the Pilgrim Lounge for a pint (to see what can be done and away supporters welcome) and buy their programme. Excellent for the level.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

When the Prem was formed it had the blessing of the FA on the understanding that it would benefit the whole of the English game. The Prem has consistently reneged on that promise and the FA has done FA about it because the Prem would simply walk away and be an independent commercial activity like Indian cricket.

I am beginning to think that maybe that would be the best thing all-round.

The football league regain its former glory whilst the Premiership disappears into the sunset. Winners of the Football League become the champions of England and the FA  Cup is for non Premiership teams. Who qualifies for European competitions? Ideally the FL champions and the Prem continues to be  'an independent commercial activity'

Quoted from BIGChris

I am beginning to think that maybe that would be the best thing all-round.

The football league regain its former glory whilst the Premiership disappears into the sunset. Winners of the Football League become the champions of England and the FA  Cup is for non Premiership teams. Who qualifies for European competitions? Ideally the FL champions and the Prem continues to be  'an independent commercial activity'

That does sound pretty good actually. Would be a bit of a headache when deciding who gets in the newly formed Super Premiership though.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Back of a ciggy packet workings here:

First year professional contract: £300
Rough workings of 25% employer contributions.

Cost of a one-year contract for a first year pro - £19,500.  Two lads on that contract = £39,000 a year.

72 clubs (League One, League Two, Conference) each with two lads on a first year contract = £2,808,000.  Just shy of 3 million for an additional 144 lads getting an additional year to develop.

As of 2016/17 the team that finishes bottom of the Premier League will get £99million.  They could get no points, score no goals, might not even win a bloody corner and they get £99million in prize money!

The cost of 144 young professionals at League One, Two and Conference levels is 2.84% of the prize money for said side that finished bottom of the Premier League.

First year pros earn around 175 a week

Quoted from BIGChris

I am beginning to think that maybe that would be the best thing all-round.

The football league regain its former glory whilst the Premiership disappears into the sunset. Winners of the Football League become the champions of England and the FA  Cup is for non Premiership teams. Who qualifies for European competitions? Ideally the FL champions and the Prem continues to be  'an independent commercial activity'

The chances are that the Prem clubs would become franchises. If the Prem does go down that route then no Prem club can be in Europe because they would not have FA membership. As a temporary action it could work for the Prem but only in the way the Packer tours did for cricket, the US soccer league of the 70s and the professional tournaments for tennis in the 60s. Eventually the supply of players runs out as they cannot be internationals anymore as they play for non-affiliated clubs. The support dwindles because the number of competing clubs and competitions is finite and relatively small.

I would like to see it happen too Chris but I can't see how the obstacles could be overcome from the Prem's point of view. It could only happen from the other direction if the FA chucked them out and I can't see the FA doing that just now. Eventually the FA might get fed up and threaten it and so force the Prem to cough up some grassroots cash but that doesn't help the Football League which is a separate organisation altogether (and it doesn't help Dayle Southwell )

Dayle southwell > Hamish watson.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Dayle southwell > Hamish watson.

How could you possibly be certain? We've only seen Watson play about 30 minutes of football!  

Quoted from Maringer

How could you possibly be certain? We've only seen Watson play about 30 minutes of football!  

Which in theory should say it all.

Quoted from jimgtfc

He did enough in his last season to warrant a deal in my opinion. We were struggling for a striker in the summer and signed Pittman, is he any better? Is Hannah? Just asking...

Blinking heck, yes. If you are comparing a fully fit Pittman (injury is the reason he is in our league rather than ability) with a fit Southwell then there is absolutely no comparison in my mind.

Personally, I was never convinced by what I saw of Southwell - not strong enough to hold it up or fend off defenders so lost the ball easily, no particular turn of pace and questionable finishing at our level.  Clearly doing well now and may return to the conference but I'd be surprised to see him go higher.

The Premiership riches are earned on merit, otherwise they would not get the money. They should pass some of the money to re-invest further down the football pyramid. If only for their own selfish and business interests.

If they do not, then ultimately all the supporting structures will go bust or just slowly wilt away.  You cannot have a Premiership when that is all there is!

There were not too many crying out for him to be retained when he was released. Easy with hindsight isn't it. A genuine lad though with a good work ethic. Pleased he is doing well.

Quoted from cardiffmariner

Blinking heck, yes. If you are comparing a fully fit Pittman (injury is the reason he is in our league rather than ability) with a fit Southwell then there is absolutely no comparison in my mind.

Personally, I was never convinced by what I saw of Southwell - not strong enough to hold it up or fend off defenders so lost the ball easily, no particular turn of pace and questionable finishing at our level.  Clearly doing well now and may return to the conference but I'd be surprised to see him go higher.

True enough though players can make a good name and living in the lower leagues without massive pace. Look at Tubbs for instance. He has no attributes that enthuse me when I see him but he's made a bomb on transfers. If Southwell has become a decent finisher there is hope for him.

Quoted from oldun

There were not too many crying out for him to be retained when he was released. Easy with hindsight isn't it. A genuine lad though with a good work ethic. Pleased he is doing well.

Well I thought he had beefed up a little, and I was disappointed we never kept him on loan to Boston, another mistake IMO, still onwards and upwards

I'm glad that Dayle has had some success away from Town. Tough times meant we couldn't hold on to him and give him time to develop.

I was just taking notice of that Michael Doughty of QPR, he's 22 and made his first Premiership start on Tuesday for them.

Before that he went out on loan in League 2 with Crawley for a season, 6 games in the SPL with St Johnstone, a full season in League 1 with Stevenage, and this season 13 games with Gillingham in League 1.

Now with injuries in the QPR team, he looks set to be blooded into Premiership games by the new manager, who brought him through the youth ranks.

Anyway what I'm trying to say in comparison to the bigger picture, was it a mistake to just let him Dayle Southwell go, looking at the above, maybe it's best to loan out a young player for a few seasons in leagues below, so they gain the experience, then make the step up?

If they're still under contract and banged in 25+ goals they come back a better player and chances are we could make some decent cash when big clubs make a move for these players, win win situation.

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

First year pros earn around 175 a week

At League One level?

I did say it was rough workings, not a detailed business case.

The figures weren't important.

Found his level maybe

I think going out to Boston will undoubtedly have proved better for Southwell than staying here. If he had stayed, he would have been 4th choice striker at best and he would be unlikely to develop too much with just limited appearances here and there.

I tend to doubt that any sort of season-long loan would have been an option, so a move was probably the only choice. Hopefully he'll do well in the long run as he always seemed a willing worker to me, but his good form in the Conference North doesn't necessarily indicate he'll ever make a prolific striker at Conference Premier or Football League level. It's the difference between playing against full-time pros most weeks and playing against part-timers most of the time.

Quoted from Maringer

I think going out to Boston will undoubtedly have proved better for Southwell than staying here. If he had stayed, he would have been 4th choice striker at best and he would be unlikely to develop too much with just limited appearances here and there.

I tend to doubt that any sort of season-long loan would have been an option, so a move was probably the only choice. Hopefully he'll do well in the long run as he always seemed a willing worker to me, but his good form in the Conference North doesn't necessarily indicate he'll ever make a prolific striker at Conference Premier or Football League level. It's the difference between playing against full-time pros most weeks and playing against part-timers most of the time.

I think that is the key, especially for a striker. He needed games and while there is no regular reserve team at Grimsby the squad players simply don't get them and it shows when the likes of Southwell and Hannah come on for a first team cameo and don't look sharp.

Last season we had Liam Agnew a Sunderland development squad player on loan , last Saturday he was on the bench for the PL team .