The latest round of pigs at a trough-thoughts

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/06/premier-league-tv-rights-bidding-sky-bt

Still no sign of money filtering down to this level, and the rich keep getting richer.

Unbelievable really as the prices go up the quality of matches gets worse. To be honest can hardly remember many high quality premiership matches and the changing of football to a near non contact sport ruined what used to be one of the seasons classics, the merseyside derby. Thought last nights was one of worst derby games for years.

No doubt more matches covered, Friday night games start and Sat afternoon will be further reduced to two or three games, in other wors up yours to the travelling supporter. I expect live Sat games at 3.00pm will soon follow and the premiership stars will "earn" more in week then some Conference clubs pay out in an entire season.

More mercenaries and less loyalty for the Most exciting league in the world, yawn yawn, think I will spend a bit more time on the golf course and go to pubs not showing live football, a bit sick of it all as you may have gathered.

Quoted from ginnywings

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/06/premier-league-tv-rights-bidding-sky-bt

Still no sign of money filtering down to this level, and the rich keep getting richer.

It makes you wonder if the Prem is really good for football as a whole or whether we were better off before it came along.

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30699020[/url]

I see the yanks are now sniffing around. God help us if they get a foothold. OFFence, DEfence and overtime.

Said it years ago , the premiership has gone too far , given up on the common man .  I can't  remember the last time I actually  sat to watch match of the day . Weren't we all purring  over Italian football at one stage when channel 4 started it , look where that is now . We have surpassed that , ruined by greed  obscene pay , and tv over kill .  The FA  , UAFA  and FIFA  have taken everyone for a ride ,  they are all on the gravy train .  My love for football has diminished that's why ,  although we are languishing here in the Conference I do get some perverse pleasure from watching my team, my Grimsby .

Quoted from DocTower

Said it years ago , the premiership has gone too far , given up on the common man .  I can't  remember the last time I actually  sat to watch match of the day . Weren't we all purring  over Italian football at one stage when channel 4 started it , look where that is now . We have surpassed that , ruined by greed  obscene pay , and tv over kill .  The FA  , UAFA  and FIFA  have taken everyone for a ride ,  they are all on the gravy train .  My love for football has diminished that's why ,  although we are languishing here in the Conference I do get some perverse pleasure from watching my team, my Grimsby .

Totally agree

Quoted from DocTower

Said it years ago , the premiership has gone too far , given up on the common man .  I can't  remember the last time I actually  sat to watch match of the day . Weren't we all purring  over Italian football at one stage when channel 4 started it , look where that is now . We have surpassed that , ruined by greed  obscene pay , and tv over kill .  The FA  , UAFA  and FIFA  have taken everyone for a ride ,  they are all on the gravy train .  My love for football has diminished that's why ,  although we are languishing here in the Conference I do get some perverse pleasure from watching my team, my Grimsby .

Totally agree. For bizarre reasons, I have a 'thing' for Newcastle but was so bored after 10 minutes yesterday, decided to go for a long walk with Mrs Codger. Enjoyed the walk more than I would the football. Actually got more enjoyment from watching the Lisbon derby on BT last night.

The German football is terrific, watched it on and off for years onVirgin/BT but developing quite a taste for it.
Wolfsberg vs Bayern last week was an incredible game, made me realise it's been such a long time since I was left feeling almost breathless myself while watching two teams. Reasonable terrace prices too, not too many of the tiresome big names, someone may come up with a flaw to their system but to me the German league seems to have got everything right.

I watch MOTD and FLS because they're on BBC and it's free. I'll never pay for sky or BT sports. Support your local team.

Quoted from RoboCod

The German football is terrific, watched it on and off for years onVirgin/BT but developing quite a taste for it.
Wolfsberg vs Bayern last week was an incredible game, made me realise it's been such a long time since I was left feeling almost breathless myself while watching two teams. Reasonable terrace prices too, not too many of the tiresome big names, someone may come up with a flaw to their system but to me the German league seems to have got everything right.

So when will sky or BT realise  this and start ditching English  football . Could be a good thing as they have ruined it with cash , that  was originally intended to filter down the pyramid  . It just filters into Swiss bank accounts  and tax havens .

Quoted from DocTower

So when will sky or BT realise  this and start ditching English  football . Could be a good thing as they have ruined it with cash , that  was originally intended to filter down the pyramid  . It just filters into Swiss bank accounts  and tax havens .

I really don't know. I guess the German/French leagues etc will only ever draw in football purists, for want of a better word, those just looking for good football, NOT Ronaldo/Messi/Rooney.
That audience will always remain a tiny fraction against the good old Premier fans/overweight blokes in their 40's with replica shirts and their favouritest players names on their backs type of fan.

Which suits me I suppose, BT sports has footy from all over the globe while Sky constantly overloads the schedule with Premier footy every week until it's watched almost by habit, like women with Eastenders.

I've been predicting a European league for some time now and think it will happen eventually. The big clubs will get to the point where no one can compete with them and people will tire of the same old clubs ruling the roost. The biggest clubs in Europe will form a European Super League. The Champions League is the pre-cursor IMO and will be expanded again in time.

The problem behind the whole concept of a European League (in preference to that of the current National League systems), is that the fans simply don't want to see this sort of a change.

Fans want to see their team playing local and national rivals week-in, week-out, not some random team from the other side of Europe however large or prestigious they may be. The money men have probably done their calculations and think how wonderful it would be to see Real Madrid or Inter Milan guaranteed to visit every season, but I think the reality would be that the English fans would lose interest pretty quickly. I just can't see it coming to pass.

Quoted from Maringer

The problem behind the whole concept of a European League (in preference to that of the current National League systems), is that the fans simply don't want to see this sort of a change.

Fans want to see their team playing local and national rivals week-in, week-out, not some random team from the other side of Europe however large or prestigious they may be. The money men have probably done their calculations and think how wonderful it would be to see Real Madrid or Inter Milan guaranteed to visit every season, but I think the reality would be that the English fans would lose interest pretty quickly. I just can't see it coming to pass.

It will happen if the money is right, because that drives all decisions at the top end of football these days.

If it ever were to happen, I think we would see the creation of more "FC of Manchester" style clubs. What is the point in following a football team if you aren't playing rivals from just up the road from time to time? How many fans have anywhere near the resources available to go to many 'away' matches in other European countries?

A European League goes against the whole British ethos of following a football club and I tend to doubt that things are any different in Germany, Italy, Spain, France etc etc.

Nope, still can't see it happening.

Agree with Maringer. The European League was mooted about 20 years ago, but the Champions League fills that gap. Can't see why there'd be a demand for anything more.

Quoted from Abdul19

Agree with Maringer. The European League was mooted about 20 years ago, but the Champions League fills that gap. Can't see why there'd be a demand for anything more.

It is currently cheaper to fly out to Europe and watch some top European games than it is to watch Arsenal and Chelsea. Many thousands do it every weekend, especially to Germany. Not only are the top clubs in England getting richer but the fan base is too.

There are many articles on the net about how the Prem is alienating the young fan base, which will bite them on the bottom one day. Places like Germany actively encourage the next generation of fans. Money rules here and i'm willing to bet that the Champions league will be expanded at some point. There was hardly a murmur when it went to it's current format.

Quoted from ginnywings

It is currently cheaper to fly out to Europe and watch some top European games than it is to watch Arsenal and Chelsea. Many thousands do it every weekend, especially to Germany. Not only are the top clubs in England getting richer but the fan base is too.

There are many articles on the net about how the Prem is alienating the young fan base, which will bite them on the bottom one day. Places like Germany actively encourage the next generation of fans. Money rules here and i'm willing to bet that the Champions league will be expanded at some point. There was hardly a murmur when it went to it's current format.

The Champions League as it is is a good 'product', albeit one already with plenty of dead rubber group games. A bigger version of it would saturate the quality - would that make more money? They quickly got shot of that 2nd group stage about a decade ago, I'm guessing because of a lack of interest? Don't disagree with any of the rest of the post though.

On a side note. the Bundesliga clubs could do with Bayern being banned from the Champions League!

Quoted from lukeo

I watch MOTD and FLS because they're on BBC and it's free. I'll never pay for sky or BT sports. Support your local team.

I have BT and its only a fiver a month at the moment for all programnes ,

I can see  Town when they are on,

BUT

When they start upping the price and Town are back in the league,

I will not bother.

Quoted from ginnywings

It is currently cheaper to fly out to Europe and watch some top European games than it is to watch Arsenal and Chelsea. Many thousands do it every weekend, especially to Germany. Not only are the top clubs in England getting richer but the fan base is too.

There are many articles on the net about how the Prem is alienating the young fan base, which will bite them on the bottom one day. Places like Germany actively encourage the next generation of fans. Money rules here and i'm willing to bet that the Champions league will be expanded at some point. There was hardly a murmur when it went to it's current format.

There was an article about this on the BBC a few months back which was an interesting read.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29624410

What a sensible thread
Boring sterile premiership
Give me kiddy away any day ( and those pies)!!
Come on Town
Need a win sat

We could do with looking at the way Germany do things... €10 for a Bundesliga match at times. safe standing, even in some grounsd tolerated "flare" areas at the sides of stands... (unofficial but away from the rest of the fans to minimise danger)

Can anyone old enough to remember, tell me how long is was going to be when England were to become world beaters because of the Premier League?  All that influx of money and the best talent were going to raise the standard and the quality was going to rub off on English players by some sort of magic process.

Pre-Premier League we had one WC win and one semi-final appearance. Not the best but...... Since then the best we've managed is the quarter finals. That's the power of the market eh?!

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

It makes you wonder if the Prem is really good for football as a whole or whether we were better off before it came along.

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30699020[/url]

I've never wondered about that. Always pretty sure it was better before.  

IMO the technical ability in English football has improved but the game as a spectacle certainly hasn't.

I don't want to revert back to the days with the tackle from behind gave defenders licence to maim strikers but the going to ground because you have been touched is sterilising the competitive element of the sport. It IS cheating. Diving is the cancer in the game but the saddest thing is that it is condoned by all and sundry whether they be current players, managers, tv 'experts' and referees

Quoted from BIGChris

IMO the technical ability in English football has improved but the game as a spectacle certainly hasn't.

I don't want to revert back to the days with the tackle from behind gave defenders licence to maim strikers but the going to ground because you have been touched is sterilising the competitive element of the sport. It IS cheating. Diving is the cancer in the game but the saddest thing is that it is condoned by all and sundry whether they be current players, managers, tv 'experts' and referees

Yep, the oft heard phrase on MOTD is "he had every right to go down when he felt a touch in the box"  

Seriously though, diving players often has me shouting at the telly. Infuriating.

Quoted from ginnywings

Yep, the oft heard phrase on MOTD is "he had every right to go down when he felt a touch in the box"  

Seriously though, diving players often has me shouting at the telly. Infuriating.

Me too , after watching the rugby on sat , the actions of some of the players in the stoke game ( i think) were laughable.
Turned it off .

Quoted from BIGChris

IMO the technical ability in English football has improved but the game as a spectacle certainly hasn't.

I don't want to revert back to the days with the tackle from behind gave defenders licence to maim strikers but the going to ground because you have been touched is sterilising the competitive element of the sport. It IS cheating. Diving is the cancer in the game but the saddest thing is that it is condoned by all and sundry whether they be current players, managers, tv 'experts' and referees

The game is definitely faster, players are fitter and in some ways more technical but play often seems over-coached. Training ground moves take precedence over flair and the football brain on the pitch. I do admire the way players can now make a run the full length of the field and then get back again at the same speed. That was a much rarer occurrence in the 70s unless you happened to be Alan Ball. Whether this Duracell bunny action is more exciting is very debatable though.

Another factor is the employing of foreign players and coaches. Yes, it may be argued that the basic technique of local players has been improved as a result but who is to say that would not have happened anyway? It is one thing having Villa and Ardiles in a team of Brits but quite another to have 8, 9,10 or 11 very average foreigners in a side. Whoever wins the Prem this year might as well be a team based in Las Vagas or Shanghai as London or Manchester because, whatever "community" building they do, Chelsea and Man City cannot possibly be considered part of a local landscape any more.

The Prem has also killed atmosphere with a business model based on family entertainment. The only thing missing these days is the majorettes cheerleader band. Maybe we were on the way to losing the heart of football as the working man's Saturday afternoon escape by 1990 but the Prem certainly finished the job. Playing games on Sunday teatime just to please Sky does nobody who cares about football any favours. Add to this the knee-jerk notion of all-seater stadia and the whole pattern of the game has altered, for the worse in my opinion anyway.

The ultimate nail in the coffin though is the cash. By making the game so dependent on TV money the Prem has ruined the economy of the rest of football. The players making a name in the lower leagues and then being transferred up is far fewer and the big clubs have a virtual monopoly of choice over signing youngsters. A side like Crewe could survive through developing young players and selling them on. Now the lower league clubs are taking Prem cast offs and not getting the income from transfer fees. While there are always exceptions, there is no incentive to develop young players to the same extent. From the player's point of view they are no longer working their way up to a big club, they start there and then work their way down!

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Whoever wins the Prem this year might as well be a team based in Las Vagas or Shanghai as London or Manchester because, whatever "community" building they do, Chelsea and Man City cannot possibly be considered part of a local landscape any more.

How 'local' was Liverpool's double winning side of 1986?

Although having said that, that's the exception rather than the rule I suppose. (and Jan Molby counts as local )

Quoted from sydney

What a sensible thread
Boring sterile premiership
Give me kiddy away any day ( and those pies)!!
Come on Town
Need a win sat

Can't agree more
Let's all get down there Saturday and get right behind them.
Stay united.

I think you see lots of British players with plenty of ability (just think how many tricky wingers England have available at the moment, for example), but where we fall behind the better teams is the lack of footballing intelligence amongst the majority of the players. If you watch the movement off the ball of the players from the top club and national sides in comparison to that of the English team, they are at entirely different levels. Our players pass the ball to a teammate and think, 'job done' unless they are running up the line for a one-two. The continentals (and South Americans) immediately move into a position where they can receive the ball if necessary. We've often seen British players succeed at overseas clubs, but never really in a 'playmaker' role and most of the creative types in the Premier League are from overseas.

We always have these great hopes arising from time to time such as Wilshire and Barkley but they don't tend to come to much respite their obvious ability on the ball. Perhaps things might be a little different if some of the young players moved overseas to learn more about the game elsewhere, but there is little impetus for them to do so when they can easily become multi-millionaires, never having to leave their comfort zone here in England.

As it stands, I expect we'll continue to create good 'blood and thunder' footballers such as Gerrard, but we'll continue to lack the intelligent types who can slot in beside them and make the team work effectively.

£5.1bn rights deal announced. Only real change is BT have SNF and Sky get the new FNF rights. Bottom club set to receive estimated £99m (minimum) over the three years the deal runs.

Scudamore just said Burnley are a richer club than Ajax.

Quoted from Maringer

I think you see lots of British players with plenty of ability (just think how many tricky wingers England have available at the moment, for example), but where we fall behind the better teams is the lack of footballing intelligence amongst the majority of the players. If you watch the movement off the ball of the players from the top club and national sides in comparison to that of the English team, they are at entirely different levels. Our players pass the ball to a teammate and think, 'job done' unless they are running up the line for a one-two. The continentals (and South Americans) immediately move into a position where they can receive the ball if necessary. We've often seen British players succeed at overseas clubs, but never really in a 'playmaker' role and most of the creative types in the Premier League are from overseas.

We always have these great hopes arising from time to time such as Wilshire and Barkley but they don't tend to come to much respite their obvious ability on the ball. Perhaps things might be a little different if some of the young players moved overseas to learn more about the game elsewhere, but there is little impetus for them to do so when they can easily become multi-millionaires, never having to leave their comfort zone here in England.

As it stands, I expect we'll continue to create good 'blood and thunder' footballers such as Gerrard, but we'll continue to lack the intelligent types who can slot in beside them and make the team work effectively.

Thinking back to the World Cup there was really only one top notch playmaker and that was Pirlo. Is it a dying art? Possibly Rooney could do that role but as you say, while playing abroad might give him the learning opportunity, he won't do it. Wilshire is much too injury prone. He has never yet played a full season as a professional. Barkley is a better bet physically but watch him closely and he is caught on his heels receiving the ball too often for my liking. He does have talent though. His goals and the way he plays remind me a bit of Tony Curry.

Perhaps the Prem's frantic all-action demands don't lend themselves to the considered playmaker though. I can't see how even someone like Lothar Matthaus would fit in the hurly-burly where pace and getting the ball forward asap are the key features.

Quoted from LH

£5.1bn rights deal announced. Only real change is BT have SNF and Sky get the new FNF rights. Bottom club set to receive estimated £99m (minimum) over the three years the deal runs.

Scudamore just said Burnley are a richer club than Ajax.

Just a tiny percentage could make such a difference to lower league, conference and semi pro football and then basic grassroots football but it will end up in the pockets of players and agents

Not expecting BT Sports free as part of my broadband after the end of this season. How else are they going to pay for PL and CL?

Don't disagree with any of the majority points made here:

Premier League football is removed from the common man.
The money at the top level of the game is killing the levels below it.
English football is suffering the influx of too many average foreign players.

Despite all of the above, Sky and BT wouldn't have spent a combined figure of £5.1bn to secure the rights for a single league if it they didn't have the audience for it.  

Until people stop paying subscriptions, this won't end.  

There were questions as to whether any of the new record deal would be going to grass roots football or cheaper ticket prices. Here is the answer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31384481

Oh great, the latest 'cool guy football' trend, the Bundesliga, is being argued for again. Unlike La Liga or the Premier League we already know who's won, in their cheap stadiums with conducted chants on megaphones, can't beat it. Also, the Premier League earns its money for their own games, what they should do is give the money to failing clubs like Grimsby and Lincoln who can't keep their books anyway. Once they get that money it'll be spent on pure causes and not, say, extra wages for players. In fact, as we know, Grimsby get more TV money than say, Marine of the Northern Premier Leagues. To be honest we should split our money with the teams in the leagues below us so they themselves can spend more money on players. To top it off let's claim we should give the money to soldiers so they can come home from massacring peasants in the Middle East to a Porsche. That'll be good for the nation economically!

"It's not a charity" apparently.

Given that QPR have  a bigger wage bill than European Champions League finalists Athletic Madrid and the team ending BOTTOM of the Premier will bag £97m (3 times more than Bayern Munich would get for winning the German League) I don't really know what it is, a money-grabbing success of epic proportions along with a dismal failure is near enough though.

Quoted from RoboCod

"It's not a charity" apparently.

Given that QPR have  a bigger wage bill than European Champions League finalists Athletic Madrid and the team ending BOTTOM of the Premier will bag £97m (3 times more than Bayern Munich would get for winning the German League) I don't really know what it is, a money-grabbing success of epic proportions along with a dismal failure is near enough though.

Not only are we told it isn't a charity for the rest of English football, it is also supposed to be the best league on the planet. So it fails on two counts.

Its a disgrace, the clubs should be made to put a certain percentage towards smaller clubs in the lower leagues,

Plus be made to have so many local or should I say british youngsters on their books,

As to the question is the premershit better than what we had before,

Are Di Maria, Van Persie and Rooney better than Charlton, Best and Law ?

If it meant England would have a stronger team I would let all the money grabbers go and play in Spain or Italy,

For the fans who want to watch these players,

I am sure Sky would still show them on prime time telly.

Their revenue has increased by a staggering 70% this bid, yet they still don't give the 5% to grass roots football that they proposed when the Premier League were looking for support to get going.

One has to ask where this extra revenue will be going apart from the extra prize money for the teams. Will they pay footballers even more than they do now?

Quoted from ginnywings

Their revenue has increased by a staggering 70% this bid, yet they still don't give the 5% to grass roots football that they proposed when the Premier League were looking for support to get going.

One has to ask where this extra revenue will be going apart from the extra prize money for the teams. Will they pay footballers even more than they do now?

Pretty certain it will end up in the pockets of players and agents

Quoted from WetFlannel

Oh great, the latest 'cool guy football' trend, the Bundesliga, is being argued for again. Unlike La Liga or the Premier League we already know who's won, in their cheap stadiums with conducted chants on megaphones, can't beat it.

How exactly are you judging their stadiums as cheap? Schalke, Dortmund, Bayern, Stuttgart, Hamburg and Monchengladback all have stadiums that are as good as any in the PL. We already knew this season in the PL that the winner would be City or Chelsea so it's no different to the Bundesliga who generally have Bayern, Dortmund (until this season) and one other who challenge for the title. La Liga has only had 3 different winners in the last 10 seasons which is less than the Bundesliga so that's another way your bizarre disliking of the Bundesliga falls down. As for the conducted chants, who cares if they're conducted?! At least there is an atmosphere! When did you last go to a PL game and experience a decent atmosphere or hear one on the tv? Even the managers and players complain these days about the lack of atmosphere at PL games ffs.

People like the Bundesliga because it produces football that is just as good as the supposed "best league in the world" but at an affordable price. They also produce far more home grown players than we do and reap the benefits of it internationally.

Quoted from mariner91

How exactly are you judging their stadiums as cheap? Schalke, Dortmund, Bayern, Stuttgart, Hamburg and Monchengladback all have stadiums that are as good as any in the PL. We already knew this season in the PL that the winner would be City or Chelsea so it's no different to the Bundesliga who generally have Bayern, Dortmund (until this season) and one other who challenge for the title. La Liga has only had 3 different winners in the last 10 seasons which is less than the Bundesliga so that's another way your bizarre disliking of the Bundesliga falls down. As for the conducted chants, who cares if they're conducted?! At least there is an atmosphere! When did you last go to a PL game and experience a decent atmosphere or hear one on the tv? Even the managers and players complain these days about the lack of atmosphere at PL games ffs.

White hart lane on sat when Spurs beat the scum. Great atmosphere

Quoted from ackomariner

White hart lane on sat when Spurs beat the scum. Great atmosphere

Yeah good example. But that was a derby match and similar atmospheres are few and far between.

The only people who can regularly afford to go to Premier League games play polo on Sundays. This type of person has a mouth full of caviar and unlike us plebs don't speak -let alone chant - with food in their mouths.

Quoted from mariner91

How exactly are you judging their stadiums as cheap? Schalke, Dortmund, Bayern, Stuttgart, Hamburg and Monchengladback all have stadiums that are as good as any in the PL. We already knew this season in the PL that the winner would be City or Chelsea so it's no different to the Bundesliga who generally have Bayern, Dortmund (until this season) and one other who challenge for the title. La Liga has only had 3 different winners in the last 10 seasons which is less than the Bundesliga so that's another way your bizarre disliking of the Bundesliga falls down. As for the conducted chants, who cares if they're conducted?! At least there is an atmosphere! When did you last go to a PL game and experience a decent atmosphere or hear one on the tv? Even the managers and players complain these days about the lack of atmosphere at PL games ffs.

People like the Bundesliga because it produces football that is just as good as the supposed "best league in the world" but at an affordable price. They also produce far more home grown players than we do and reap the benefits of it internationally.

You almost completed Bundesliga bingo! How adorable! I don't go to Premier League games or watch many of them, unlike the obsessives on here. I prefer La Liga because the plays better and there's more competitive teams all the way up (the Europa League and Champions League winners from last year for example), but maybe I'd rather watch Freiburg on TV so I can be cool and watch their cheerleaders holding up pretty placards!

Quoted from grimsby pete

Il,

,

Are Di Maria, Van Persie and Rooney better than Charlton, Best and Law ?

.

Yes.

Quoted from WetFlannel

You almost completed Bundesliga bingo! How adorable! I don't go to Premier League games or watch many of them, unlike the obsessives on here. I prefer La Liga because the plays better and there's more competitive teams all the way up (the Europa League and Champions League winners from last year for example), but maybe I'd rather watch Freiburg on TV so I can be cool and watch their cheerleaders holding up pretty placards!

If that is true how can you say La Liga is better.?

Quoted from WetFlannel

Yes.

How can you say that if you do not watch the prem or even saw the the 60;s football.

Quoted from grimsby pete

How can you say that if you do not watch the prem or even saw the the 60;s football.

Could be a myriad of reasons, one of which is i believed you were testing the beliefs of 'ask a silly question...'

Quoted from WetFlannel

You almost completed Bundesliga bingo! How adorable! I don't go to Premier League games or watch many of them, unlike the obsessives on here. I prefer La Liga because the plays better and there's more competitive teams all the way up (the Europa League and Champions League winners from last year for example), but maybe I'd rather watch Freiburg on TV so I can be cool and watch their cheerleaders holding up pretty placards!

That's up to you if you prefer other leagues but at least make your argument truthful eh? The stadiums, atmosphere and winners thing was just crazy especially when you say you prefer La Liga which is worse in all three of those compared to the Bundesliga. La Liga, for my taste, is too slow. Many La Liga games that I watch bore me close to tears. I prefer to watch football with some tempo so when I'm not watching Town or the PL then I choose to watch Bundesliga as the play is much quicker (and therefore, in my opinion, more exciting). It's not about being cool or anything like that which I think you fail to realise. People hold the Bundesliga up as a good model because it is still affordable for the working man, something the PL stopped being many years ago. And yet despite the lack of money, the quality in the Bundesliga is no worse than the PL and in my opinion, no worse than La Liga. But you carry on with your bizarre ranting about being "cool".

Quoted from WetFlannel

Yes.

Cobblers.  

You can't have seen much of Best, Law and Charlton if you really think that. Best in particular would give any of the current Prem players a masterclass.

Quoted from mariner91

That's up to you if you prefer other leagues but at least make your argument truthful eh? The stadiums, atmosphere and winners thing was just crazy especially when you say you prefer La Liga which is worse in all three of those compared to the Bundesliga. La Liga, for my taste, is too slow. Many La Liga games that I watch bore me close to tears. I prefer to watch football with some tempo so when I'm not watching Town or the PL then I choose to watch Bundesliga as the play is much quicker (and therefore, in my opinion, more exciting). It's not about being cool or anything like that which I think you fail to realise. People hold the Bundesliga up as a good model because it is still affordable for the working man, something the PL stopped being many years ago. And yet despite the lack of money, the quality in the Bundesliga is no worse than the PL and in my opinion, no worse than La Liga. But you carry on with your bizarre ranting about being "cool".

Absolutely, it's horses for courses, which was my original point anyway. Hell, if somebody preferred the football of the Tippeligaen it's a fair shout. But there's this odd idea of the Bundesliga model (which has itself caused many issues, no least the fact that it's very hard for smaller teams to get and stay in the top league, which created an issue for East German teams upon reunification, one which means that East Germany has no top tier representatives) as being perfect, when it's clear that it's not the case. By the way, when I have been to Premier League games I've been on adult tickets that cost less than £17 for some clubs. Sure, for some, especially the London clubs in particular, the costs are extreme (what isn't in London?) but if you can't get cheap tickets for Northern teams then you're doing something wrong. Newcastle have adult tickets for around the same price as many of the huge clubs in the Conference for example. Saying 'clubs aren't spending money right in the 'premiershite' and tickets are too expensive while claiming we should be given money by these clubs simply for existing' when most of the issues apply to us and teams around us too is just embarrassing.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Cobblers.  

You can't have seen much of Best, Law and Charlton if you really think that. Best in particular would give any of the current Prem players a masterclass.

Personally think the pace and tempo back then was much slower. See my response about the stupidnESS of the question I was answering above though kiddo.

Quoted from WetFlannel

Absolutely, it's horses for courses, which was my original point anyway. Hell, if somebody preferred the football of the Tippeligaen it's a fair shout. But there's this odd idea of the Bundesliga model (which has itself caused many issues, no least the fact that it's very hard for smaller teams to get and stay in the top league, which created an issue for East German teams upon reunification, one which means that East Germany has no top tier representatives) as being perfect, when it's clear that it's not the case. By the way, when I have been to Premier League games I've been on adult tickets that cost less than £17 for some clubs. Sure, for some, especially the London clubs in particular, the costs are extreme (what isn't in London?) but if you can't get cheap tickets for Northern teams then you're doing something wrong. Newcastle have adult tickets for around the same price as many of the huge clubs in the Conference for example. Saying 'clubs aren't spending money right in the 'premiershite' and tickets are too expensive while claiming we should be given money by these clubs simply for existing' when most of the issues apply to us and teams around us too is just embarrassing.

I'm sure there are issues with the German league system, no system is perfect. But I do think their ticket pricing methods are much better and this in turn contributes to much better atmospheres in general. I can't find it off hand and I can't be bothered to look right now but the Dortmund chairman or some other position said they don't want to treat fans as "clients" which is what happens here. You can get a season ticket for 190 euros which is cheaper than watching Town! My brother watches LIverpool nearly every home game and he usually pays in excess of £35 for his ticket and they're most certainly in the north. I went with him to watch the match where Suarez bit Ivanovic and it set met back £55 and I didn't even have a particularly good seat.

I actually went to a Tippeligaen match last May whilst I was in Norway. It was pretty entertaining but rather low standard, probably no better than League 2. Good experience though.

Quoted from WetFlannel

Personally think the pace and tempo back then was much slower. See my response about the stupidnESS of the question I was answering above though kiddo.

Yes I appreciate both points. I have said the same thing about the pace of the Prem and indeed all levels of the pro game.

But class is class. Given the same playing situations and fitness levels there really is no way that any of the current lot can compare to Charlton, Law & Best and I would add others like Moore, Hurst, Curry, Marsh, Bowles, Giles even, as there is nobody in the Prem today who can see and pick a pass like him. Silly I know to try and compare but fun all the same.

By law, the majority share of the German clubs are owned by the fans and fans' associations themselves. The clubs are run for the benefit of the fans which is obviously the correct way to work. An interesting article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22625160

Here in the UK, we're a bit similar to the Yanks in that money is king, although we bizarrely don't have the same revenue sharing model that they have.

Therefore, we end up with the worst of all worlds.