Turning point in our history

Ok bear with me.
I think at the moment has come the biggest turning point in the history of GTFC, as we look at the last 5 years in non league football what have we got.
One thing is definite considering the size and economic constraints in the Town, I think we have maintained an above average level of continued support through the terraces. That is a massive respect to the Town fans on here regardless of views on John Fenty and current/previous managers.
John Fenty has made massive mistakes over the years. John is a fan but isn't a football mind. I've always been shocked that he hasn't sussed this out. I don't know if it is ego or bloody mindedness but he needs and has for a long time a football minded person to run the football side of the club.
John has indicated before he wishes he didn't have the club and would sell if he could. he's kind of stuck, no one wants it now or in the foreseeable future. The fact it is seen as a pink elephant will rub off inside the club. Wonder what it is like to work there.
The new ground fiasco is probably the worst run and most costly waste of time in football. The new ground is desperately needed but between the club and council has become rather boring. I don't personally think it will happen over the next 10 years. I may be proved wrong.
All fans wether pro on here or not are sick of seeing a once proud league club punching below their weight now one league above North Ferriby. A local village team.
Hand on heart I am now getting bored.  I accept clubs have low points but we have little to get excited about year in year out.
It is time now for either John Fenty to provide a reason for fans to get positive again and get the Fans going or to hand the club to the fans and lets see what happens. There are blueprints for success and if it doesn't work at least we did it our way because really this way isn't working.
What PH is doing again wether with or against is not working I have football coaching badges and have worked to some level in football. I certainly wouldn't do a better job but my hat isn't in the ring. But I can see lots of shortfalls in the mans ability and so can others with some football nouce, its not just opinion it is there to see like it or not. I wouldn't call him a clown and inept like I have seen on here but I have said before just not the man for this job.
So heres a question would people prefer GTFC to throw caution to the wind. get football people in and risk the future in an attempt to get this club going again, or would you prefer to stay sensible slug away and hope that what we have done for 5 years finally gets us back to some level of decent football.
Because at the moment if I am perfectly honest I'm moving toward the risk factor because supporting GTFC is now more habit than anything, and that hurts really.

I appreciate some will say - oh no not another anti-JF and anti-PH thread - but APT makes some good football points here.

The club has not progressed in the last 5 seasons. It has just held its own in the Conference with what JF calls a "competitive budget". Another season in the Conference and the budget becomes a bit less competitive unless JF makes it so and that is how we will continue, hoping for either good fortune or a good fairy.

As far as the manager is concerned I have nothing against him personally, mainly because he is a fellow Yorkie ( ) but his managerial style and abilities seem to me to be very similar to those of Neil Woods. That is, a good coach and player spotter but without those specific skills that make a good manager in team building and tactics. Those skills are not learnable, you either have them or you don't.

Eventually some decision will have to be made about the future of the club. The only question is whether to make it sooner or later.

We need an equivalent figure to Stuart Pearce in the dressing room pre-matches.

Look at the old Wimbledon tactics for upsetting opponents so that Premier players were intimidated.

Opponents come to Blundell Park knowing that we defend deep so they have a chance to dominate a game with fast passing and tough tactics.

That's why we are a good 15 points behind where we should be for this season - capitulation at home to potentially weaker teams from league positions.... until they come here !

A lack of shared goalscorers apart from the Shop - so 5 more goals in drawn games would yield 10 more points - another weakness !

Few set piece goals - rubbish corners and lousy free kicks mostly this year - other teams want these situations to happen as they are set up to score !

Pearson must wonder if he is wasting his time going up most matches ! Why can't these PROFESSIONALS kick a dead ball properly??

Q - do we train set pieces on the pitch where the corners are tight ?- ie simulate rear barriers at the training ground. An easy run up on a training ground pitch is far different from Blundell Park.

So frustrating knowing that the players have much more potential and are not realising their full form in matches !!

I believe that JF's only chance is to deliver on the new ground. I think there is a far better chance of it going ahead than there has ever been.

IF that doesnt happen, and happen quickly especially in respect of getting green lights for detailed planning, then there will be a dramatically increased call for change.

Just a thought, and i havent got the answer, but we are told promotion is worth at least £750k per annum! Would it be worth a gamble of an additional £250k which would get FIVE top class Conference players on board.

IF you were JF would you consider that gamble? Did he try that the first year we were down here and failed because the way it was spent? Has that burnt his fingers.

Many want sustainability over gambling on our existence and that makes a lot of sense

Which 5 top class defenders would Paul Hurst buy in ??  

For me, the Scott Brown role is paramount to the rest of the season..... in form, we have a dominant midfield, giving Disley and Clay chance to shine in a solid team spine... without, it's a struggle !!

2nd, the left hand side Neilsen / Thomas combination on form again, unstoppable when on song - opponents part like the Red Sea when they play together at pace, not had chance to see that recently.

is the form and confidence being coached out of them with 1-0 wins being a priority?

Sadly, the opponents don't read that script, and we struggle to score more than one, possibly two as present.

Fans would respect Hurst more if he set the team up in a more attacking mode at home from the start, and the players had their batteries on full charge from kick off.

Quoted from BIGChris

I believe that JF's only chance is to deliver on the new ground. I think there is a far better chance of it going ahead than there has ever been.

IF that doesnt happen, and happen quickly especially in respect of getting green lights for detailed planning, then there will be a dramatically increased call for change.

Just a thought, and i havent got the answer, but we are told promotion is worth at least £750k per annum! Would it be worth a gamble of an additional £250k which would get FIVE top class Conference players on board.

IF you were JF would you consider that gamble? Did he try that the first year we were down here and failed because the way it was spent? Has that burnt his fingers.

Many want sustainability over gambling on our existence and that makes a lot of sense

Chris , absolutely it is worth the gamble and one that should be made.

crawley , Fleetwood and to an extent Mansfield all threw some money at getting in the league and it worked , some will say you don't have to as Cambridge and York got promoted without spending quite a lot but they had what we haven't which is better players in house and to an extent better managers.

we have been here for a few years and lets be honest the most we have spent in I thnk 30k on liam hearn and look what happened when we did that he got us 30 odd goals, yes he was then injured but it shows IF you spend it wisely you can pick up decent young players who will get you promotion eg jamie vardy just to name one, these players are out there and it is up to us to find him instead of looking for freebies all the time.

You can call these players investments which can get you promoted and make the club some money, for me it just depends on how much our club from the top wants promotion.

its a debate were some will say well were are you going to get the money from ? well I have no shame in saying I think it should come from the man at the top who hasn't give us much to shout about in his reign at Blundell park.

Quoted from BIGChris

I believe that JF's only chance is to deliver on the new ground. I think there is a far better chance of it going ahead than there has ever been.

IF that doesnt happen, and happen quickly especially in respect of getting green lights for detailed planning, then there will be a dramatically increased call for change.

Just a thought, and i havent got the answer, but we are told promotion is worth at least £750k per annum! Would it be worth a gamble of an additional £250k which would get FIVE top class Conference players on board.

IF you were JF would you consider that gamble? Did he try that the first year we were down here and failed because the way it was spent? Has that burnt his fingers.

Many want sustainability over gambling on our existence and that makes a lot of sense

I would say that it has.  I will get back to him having his fingers burnt eventually but ....

Sitting in JF's shoes, you've lent the club £3million (irrespective of how that came about) and undoubtedly want it back.  The likelihood of someone coming to the club and buying him out is, IMO, pretty much nil when you factor in these loans.  

IMO, if I had the means to make an offer for the club I wouldn't be happy paying that £3million because of the way that it has been accrued, why should I pick up the tab for bad decisions that have been made by JF?  

I think the loans will be the ultimate stumbling block - it depends on how much of that £3million he wants back and how much someone is prepared to pay.

So, you've already stumped up £3million in the past, are you really going to put another 250k in??  

If you do, you have to have the right man sat in the managers chair.  JF's tried it in the past and it has failed because of the man he has employed as manager.

It's pretty pointless giving 250k to someone who will simply waste it.  You have to have full confidence in the manager to go out and spend that money wisely rather than fritter it away.  

I think that ultimately JF can only see his loans being repaid if the new stadium gets the go ahead.  How certain is he that it will happen this time?  

If I was JF I'd be keeping any additional funding to the absolute minimum until I knew the new stadium was actually happening because if it doesn't, I can't see anyone coming in and paying those loans off - and if it was me looking to take the club on I wouldn't want to pay those loans off, you'd just sweat him out until the fans effectively forced his hand into writing some/all of those loans off, which is what will happen if we stay in this league much longer and the new stadium plan gets vetoed for whatever reason.

I think until the club know for definite about the new stadium any additional funding from JF will be at an absolute minimum.

I agree in principle re that investment being worthwhile but unfortunately you've got to have the right manager at the club to spend that money, and without wishing to turn this into another anti-PH thread, I don't think we've got that with PH.

Quoted from BIGChris

I believe that JF's only chance is to deliver on the new ground. I think there is a far better chance of it going ahead than there has ever been.

IF that doesnt happen, and happen quickly especially in respect of getting green lights for detailed planning, then there will be a dramatically increased call for change.

Just a thought, and i havent got the answer, but we are told promotion is worth at least £750k per annum! Would it be worth a gamble of an additional £250k which would get FIVE top class Conference players on board.

IF you were JF would you consider that gamble? Did he try that the first year we were down here and failed because the way it was spent? Has that burnt his fingers.

Many want sustainability over gambling on our existence and that makes a lot of sense

That is a fair point Chris. I think you are right about the first season we were down but he perhaps sees in Hurst the same problems that burnt his fingers with Woods. Does he really think he could trust this manager with that sort of cash given the track record so far? He might argue that he got his fingers burnt with an entirely different kind of manager in Newell of course and so is reluctant to go for a strong personality. It's a cleft stick whichever way you look at it.

Even if the new ground comes through it is no guarantee of future success on the field if the same principles of safety first are continued. Which is why I said on another thread that the club needs a instant boost to get it up to at least the next playing level. Carrying on in the Conference for another X years is really not an option either in a playing or a financial sense. It will simply drain his personal resources at a slower rate but ultimately by more cash. Sometime JF will have to bite the bullet and make some hard decisions about the budget and the manager. Sooner rather than later seems to me to be the better choice.

No need for further cash investment although it would be nice, just manage the players we have now by employing an attack minded coach to work with what we have, no problems with the defence. just need new ideas up front IMO

My big worry about all of this is that its highly unlikely that JF will call time on his involvement with
the club until at least a proportion of his 'benign' loans are paid back to him (and who will do that?) therefore
the only way he can recover anything financially is with his 'Enabler' (as he calls it) for a new stadium - i fear this is
doubtful, as many of the larger retailers are closing stores at the moment, not opening them and here lies the
worry - without a new stadium complex go ahead, or promotion, i honestly believe Mr Fenty will put this club on
a part time basis within 2 years and if that happens ,GTFC as we know it will be dead.

Yes we can speculate to accumulate. The risk is not to live further beyond our means than other clubs.  Leeds, Hereford and others have shown the results of the investment or gamble when it does not produce the desired results.    

Quoted from Garth

No need for further cash investment although it would be nice, just manage the players we have now by employing an attack minded coach to work with what we have, no problems with the defence. just need new ideas up front IMO

But maybe the defence is being given too much credit. If we were more attack minded, then we may be far more leaky at the back, as we were when Hearn and Connell were banging in the goals. It's easy to keep the goals against deficit down if the whole team is defending as a unit, but then you are largely depending on sticking away what few chances come along. Slade very nearly made that work with lightning counter attacks from Reddy and the likes.

We (Hurst) can't get the balance right. When we were scoring for fun in the Hearn season, we came up short because we were too leaky at the back and now we have tightened up, we can't score enough.

We desperately need an injection of pace and a midfielder who will run beyond the forwards, coupled with a goalscorer who will put away a good ratio of chances IMO. If we had that, we would be a lot nearer the top spot. Another handful of goals in the right games would have seen us have at least 10 more points on the board.

January is ticking away............................................................

Surely if we were going to getting any players in,it before one of the most influential games of the season, don't  we will wait to the last day to get somebody  nobody else wants.

Quoted from friskneymariner

Surely if we were going to getting any players in,it before one of the most influential games of the season, don't  we will wait to the last day to get somebody  nobody else wants.

That about sums things up nowadays.

Who exactly were these players that fenty spent all the money on in our first year down here cos I can't remember them ?!

Quoted from BIGChris

I believe that JF's only chance is to deliver on the new ground. I think there is a far better chance of it going ahead than there has ever been.

IF that doesnt happen, and happen quickly especially in respect of getting green lights for detailed planning, then there will be a dramatically increased call for change.

Just a thought, and i havent got the answer, but we are told promotion is worth at least £750k per annum! Would it be worth a gamble of an additional £250k which would get FIVE top class Conference players on board.

IF you were JF would you consider that gamble? Did he try that the first year we were down here and failed because the way it was spent? Has that burnt his fingers.

Many want sustainability over gambling on our existence and that makes a lot of sense

Well if he did that was one of his most barmiest decisions ever to hand over a wedge like that to the worst manager in Town's history.

Quoted from Quagmire

I would say that it has.  I will get back to him having his fingers burnt eventually but ....

Sitting in JF's shoes, you've lent the club £3million (irrespective of how that came about) and undoubtedly want it back.  The likelihood of someone coming to the club and buying him out is, IMO, pretty much nil when you factor in these loans.  

IMO, if I had the means to make an offer for the club I wouldn't be happy paying that £3million because of the way that it has been accrued, why should I pick up the tab for bad decisions that have been made by JF?  

I think the loans will be the ultimate stumbling block - it depends on how much of that £3million he wants back and how much someone is prepared to pay.

So, you've already stumped up £3million in the past, are you really going to put another 250k in??  

If you do, you have to have the right man sat in the managers chair.  JF's tried it in the past and it has failed because of the man he has employed as manager.

It's pretty pointless giving 250k to someone who will simply waste it.  You have to have full confidence in the manager to go out and spend that money wisely rather than fritter it away.  

I think that ultimately JF can only see his loans being repaid if the new stadium gets the go ahead.  How certain is he that it will happen this time?  

If I was JF I'd be keeping any additional funding to the absolute minimum until I knew the new stadium was actually happening because if it doesn't, I can't see anyone coming in and paying those loans off - and if it was me looking to take the club on I wouldn't want to pay those loans off, you'd just sweat him out until the fans effectively forced his hand into writing some/all of those loans off, which is what will happen if we stay in this league much longer and the new stadium plan gets vetoed for whatever reason.

I think until the club know for definite about the new stadium any additional funding from JF will be at an absolute minimum.

I agree in principle re that investment being worthwhile but unfortunately you've got to have the right manager at the club to spend that money, and without wishing to turn this into another anti-PH thread, I don't think we've got that with PH.

I absolutely agree with all this, great post!

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Who exactly were these players that fenty spent all the money on in our first year down here cos I can't remember them ?!

Players like Kempson and Ridley (just 2 off the top of my head) were on more money than the current lot, despite being no better and in most cases worse.

Quoted from Quagmire

I would say that it has.  I will get back to him having his fingers burnt eventually but ....

Sitting in JF's shoes, you've lent the club £3million (irrespective of how that came about) and undoubtedly want it back.  The likelihood of someone coming to the club and buying him out is, IMO, pretty much nil when you factor in these loans.  

IMO, if I had the means to make an offer for the club I wouldn't be happy paying that £3million because of the way that it has been accrued, why should I pick up the tab for bad decisions that have been made by JF?  

I think the loans will be the ultimate stumbling block - it depends on how much of that £3million he wants back and how much someone is prepared to pay.

So, you've already stumped up £3million in the past, are you really going to put another 250k in??  

If you do, you have to have the right man sat in the managers chair.  JF's tried it in the past and it has failed because of the man he has employed as manager.

It's pretty pointless giving 250k to someone who will simply waste it.  You have to have full confidence in the manager to go out and spend that money wisely rather than fritter it away.  

I think that ultimately JF can only see his loans being repaid if the new stadium gets the go ahead.  How certain is he that it will happen this time?  

If I was JF I'd be keeping any additional funding to the absolute minimum until I knew the new stadium was actually happening because if it doesn't, I can't see anyone coming in and paying those loans off - and if it was me looking to take the club on I wouldn't want to pay those loans off, you'd just sweat him out until the fans effectively forced his hand into writing some/all of those loans off, which is what will happen if we stay in this league much longer and the new stadium plan gets vetoed for whatever reason.

I think until the club know for definite about the new stadium any additional funding from JF will be at an absolute minimum.

I agree in principle re that investment being worthwhile but unfortunately you've got to have the right manager at the club to spend that money, and without wishing to turn this into another anti-PH thread, I don't think we've got that with PH.

As far as I am aware allot of the 3m debt came from paying off the previous boards mistakes,
The old board wanted to put GTFC in to bankruptcy after the ITV Digital debacle but JF paid it and them off to stop this happening.

Its ok to say in hindsight that allot of mistakes have been made but some we all would have made, appointing Mike Newell for instance was at the time on here regarded as a coup.
I must also admit though that  Neil Woods appointment was defiantly not the best decision the board has ever made

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

As far as I am aware allot of the 3m debt came from paying off the previous boards mistakes,
The old board wanted to put GTFC in to bankruptcy after the ITV Digital debacle but JF paid it and them off to stop this happening.

Its ok to say in hindsight that allot of mistakes have been made but some we all would have made, appointing Mike Newell for instance was at the time on here regarded as a coup.
I must also admit though that  Neil Woods appointment was defiantly not the best decision the board has ever made

Did anybody make him do this? Maybe bankruptcy would have been the right way to go - all hindsight, I know - but it was his decision to take the tax debt on.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

As far as I am aware allot of the 3m debt came from paying off the previous boards mistakes,
The old board wanted to put GTFC in to bankruptcy after the ITV Digital debacle but JF paid it and them off to stop this happening.

Its ok to say in hindsight that allot of mistakes have been made but some we all would have made, appointing Mike Newell for instance was at the time on here regarded as a coup.
I must also admit though that  Neil Woods appointment was defiantly not the best decision the board has ever made

The only debt as far as the books were concerned was the tax debt from ITV digital crash, which the club paid back in agreed instalments and Ramsden which JF paid himself back in agreed instalments over several seasons.

The 3M+ debt against the clubs assets is the benign loans coming from paying off managers and players every season as JF exercised his trigger finger.

What you need to ask yourself is

Tax Debt + Ramdsen money = __________ (which the club paid back)
Fenty's benign loan =

That's the turning point but you know this.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Did anybody make him do this? Maybe bankruptcy would have been the right way to go - all hindsight, I know - but it was his decision to take the tax debt on.

Not saying it wasn't his choice but I suppose he felt the punishment the FA would have dealt out would have been to much for the club and taking on the debt was the better option. like I said hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Did anybody make him do this? Maybe bankruptcy would have been the right way to go - all hindsight, I know - but it was his decision to take the tax debt on.

At the time the vast majority of fans were pleased he had got to grips with it. It seems to be another inconvenient truth but there was only him who was willing to do so. Despite repeated claims on here that there are plenty of people who may be willing to invest absolutely nobody stuck their head above the parapet at that time and, of course, that was before there were any benign loans.As a fan, he should be applauded for choosing to do so as an alternative to bankruptcy
I don't know what bankruptcy means in terms of a football club but if one of the inevitable conclusions would have been liquidation then I remain very glad that we didn't let that particular genie out of the bottle......

The Fishy at its best
Great posts, good debate, food for thought, and respect for peoples' differing opinions
Won't comment cos it's all been said above - there is no balck and white in all of this - but enjoyed this thread

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

As far as I am aware allot of the 3m debt came from paying off the previous boards mistakes,
The old board wanted to put GTFC in to bankruptcy after the ITV Digital debacle but JF paid it and them off to stop this happening.

Its ok to say in hindsight that allot of mistakes have been made but some we all would have made, appointing Mike Newell for instance was at the time on here regarded as a coup.
I must also admit though that  Neil Woods appointment was defiantly not the best decision the board has ever made

JF appointed to the board on August 6th 2001, which is 8 months prior to ITV Digital going bust.  I can't remember what the options were for the club when that happened but I do remember Mike Rouse being paid off at some point but I think that was a fairly nominal amount (50k I think).

In terms of the £3million being used to pay off 'previous boards mistakes' you've only got to take a look at the club accounts, profit/loss in particular to see that the bulk of this debt has been created with JF at the helm.

Since dropping into League Two in 2004, the overall loss over the next 10 years now stands at over £2.5million

2005  -29,630
2006  +407,301
2007  -857,513
2008  +114,603
2009  -639,202
2010  -40,264
2011  -936,177
2012  +142,404
2013  -453,571
2014  -227,411

Source:  http://www.extra-gtfc.co.uk/accounts2/chart1.html

Profitable years in 2006 & 2008 due to Cardiff/Wembley appearances, 2012 Ryan Bennet fee?

You mention Woods being a poor appointment but there's a few others.

Graham Rodger sacked 5 months into a 2 year contract, plus players he signed like Beagrie (likely to be on good money) being paid off - a loss at the end of that season of 850,000

It looks like we went way OTT with the budget given to Woods in our first season down in this league, a loss of almost £1million - it doesn't matter how much money you've got to throw at the problem if you don't have the right man spending it.

What would the loss have been in 2013 had we not made it to Wembley in the FAT?

I know some will label me as a Fenty basher etc but you can't claim that the £3million that he is owed is down to 'previous boards mistakes' when you look at the club accounts.

Incidentally, I know people 'blame' PH for taking the FA Trophy so seriously but is that a directive from above that he MUST do all he can to get the club there when you consider the only profitable years we have had recently have been Cardiff/Wembley years?

Ultimately none of this matters.

Whilst the new stadium remains a possibility JF will remain in control - it's his only real chance of having his loans paid off and would also create the legacy of him being the one to deliver a new stadium to the club/community/town rather than the current one of him being the man to take the club into non-league whilst racking up a mountain of debt.

The turning point will come if the new stadium is vetoed and stopped from happening.

Quoted from Quagmire

JF appointed to the board on August 6th 2001, which is 8 months prior to ITV Digital going bust.  I can't remember what the options were for the club when that happened but I do remember Mike Rouse being paid off at some point but I think that was a fairly nominal amount (50k I think).

In terms of the £3million being used to pay off 'previous boards mistakes' you've only got to take a look at the club accounts, profit/loss in particular to see that the bulk of this debt has been created with JF at the helm.

Since dropping into League Two in 2004, the overall loss over the next 10 years now stands at over £2.5million

2005  -29,630
2006  +407,301
2007  -857,513
2008  +114,603
2009  -639,202
2010  -40,264
2011  -936,177
2012  +142,404
2013  -453,571
2014  -227,411

Source:  http://www.extra-gtfc.co.uk/accounts2/chart1.html

Profitable years in 2006 & 2008 due to Cardiff/Wembley appearances, 2012 Ryan Bennet fee?

You mention Woods being a poor appointment but there's a few others.

Graham Rodger sacked 5 months into a 2 year contract, plus players he signed like Beagrie (likely to be on good money) being paid off - a loss at the end of that season of 850,000

It looks like we went way OTT with the budget given to Woods in our first season down in this league, a loss of almost £1million - it doesn't matter how much money you've got to throw at the problem if you don't have the right man spending it.

What would the loss have been in 2013 had we not made it to Wembley in the FAT?

I know some will label me as a Fenty basher etc but you can't claim that the £3million that he is owed is down to 'previous boards mistakes' when you look at the club accounts.

Incidentally, I know people 'blame' PH for taking the FA Trophy so seriously but is that a directive from above that he MUST do all he can to get the club there when you consider the only profitable years we have had recently have been Cardiff/Wembley years?

Ultimately none of this matters.

Whilst the new stadium remains a possibility JF will remain in control - it's his only real chance of having his loans paid off and would also create the legacy of him being the one to deliver a new stadium to the club/community/town rather than the current one of him being the man to take the club into non-league whilst racking up a mountain of debt.

The turning point will come if the new stadium is vetoed and stopped from happening.

To be honest, I don't have the time to check all that but if it is correct that is post of the decade for me.

Quoted from arryarryarry

To be honest, I don't have the time to check all that but if it is correct that is post of the decade for me.

Yep, really helpful analysis that.

But did you Getyourfactsright?  

Quoted from Quagmire

JF appointed to the board on August 6th 2001, which is 8 months prior to ITV Digital going bust.  I can't remember what the options were for the club when that happened but I do remember Mike Rouse being paid off at some point but I think that was a fairly nominal amount (50k I think).

In terms of the £3million being used to pay off 'previous boards mistakes' you've only got to take a look at the club accounts, profit/loss in particular to see that the bulk of this debt has been created with JF at the helm.

Since dropping into League Two in 2004, the overall loss over the next 10 years now stands at over £2.5million

2005  -29,630
2006  +407,301
2007  -857,513
2008  +114,603
2009  -639,202
2010  -40,264
2011  -936,177
2012  +142,404
2013  -453,571
2014  -227,411

Source:  http://www.extra-gtfc.co.uk/accounts2/chart1.html

Profitable years in 2006 & 2008 due to Cardiff/Wembley appearances, 2012 Ryan Bennet fee?

You mention Woods being a poor appointment but there's a few others.

Graham Rodger sacked 5 months into a 2 year contract, plus players he signed like Beagrie (likely to be on good money) being paid off - a loss at the end of that season of 850,000

It looks like we went way OTT with the budget given to Woods in our first season down in this league, a loss of almost £1million - it doesn't matter how much money you've got to throw at the problem if you don't have the right man spending it.

What would the loss have been in 2013 had we not made it to Wembley in the FAT?

I know some will label me as a Fenty basher etc but you can't claim that the £3million that he is owed is down to 'previous boards mistakes' when you look at the club accounts.

Incidentally, I know people 'blame' PH for taking the FA Trophy so seriously but is that a directive from above that he MUST do all he can to get the club there when you consider the only profitable years we have had recently have been Cardiff/Wembley years?

Ultimately none of this matters.

Whilst the new stadium remains a possibility JF will remain in control - it's his only real chance of having his loans paid off and would also create the legacy of him being the one to deliver a new stadium to the club/community/town rather than the current one of him being the man to take the club into non-league whilst racking up a mountain of debt.

The turning point will come if the new stadium is vetoed and stopped from happening.

Thank you for that.

I guess youre saying with your head what some of have been saying with our hearts for long enough.

The only thing that surprised me is the amount spent in our first season in non league. It certainly didn't feel at the time that we were throwing money at it?

I have said for a while that it now depends on the new stadium. If it goes ahead I am assuming JF can find a way to pay himself back, and he can have something for his grandchildren to remember him by.

If it doesn't, then its still his call but what would be the point in carrying on just to lose more money over time?  

Was it not a loss of subsidy through tv rights and sponsorship in our first season?? If not then it is very worrying. £1m given to an inexperienced manager to play with is worrying

Quoted from barralad

At the time the vast majority of fans were pleased he had got to grips with it. It seems to be another inconvenient truth but there was only him who was willing to do so. Despite repeated claims on here that there are plenty of people who may be willing to invest absolutely nobody stuck their head above the parapet at that time and, of course, that was before there were any benign loans.As a fan, he should be applauded for choosing to do so as an alternative to bankruptcy
I don't know what bankruptcy means in terms of a football club but if one of the inevitable conclusions would have been liquidation then I remain very glad that we didn't let that particular genie out of the bottle......

I don't agree with your conclusions but, you are right that no one else stuck their hands in their pocket like John Fenty did at that time. But the summary of losses/profits over the last ten years posted by Quagmire is also telling.

Quoted from Quagmire

JF appointed to the board on August 6th 2001, which is 8 months prior to ITV Digital going bust.  I can't remember what the options were for the club when that happened but I do remember Mike Rouse being paid off at some point but I think that was a fairly nominal amount (50k I think).

In terms of the £3million being used to pay off 'previous boards mistakes' you've only got to take a look at the club accounts, profit/loss in particular to see that the bulk of this debt has been created with JF at the helm.

Since dropping into League Two in 2004, the overall loss over the next 10 years now stands at over £2.5million

2005  -29,630
2006  +407,301
2007  -857,513
2008  +114,603
2009  -639,202
2010  -40,264
2011  -936,177
2012  +142,404
2013  -453,571
2014  -227,411

Source:  http://www.extra-gtfc.co.uk/accounts2/chart1.html

Profitable years in 2006 & 2008 due to Cardiff/Wembley appearances, 2012 Ryan Bennet fee?

You mention Woods being a poor appointment but there's a few others.

Graham Rodger sacked 5 months into a 2 year contract, plus players he signed like Beagrie (likely to be on good money) being paid off - a loss at the end of that season of 850,000

It looks like we went way OTT with the budget given to Woods in our first season down in this league, a loss of almost £1million - it doesn't matter how much money you've got to throw at the problem if you don't have the right man spending it.

What would the loss have been in 2013 had we not made it to Wembley in the FAT?

I know some will label me as a Fenty basher etc but you can't claim that the £3million that he is owed is down to 'previous boards mistakes' when you look at the club accounts.

Incidentally, I know people 'blame' PH for taking the FA Trophy so seriously but is that a directive from above that he MUST do all he can to get the club there when you consider the only profitable years we have had recently have been Cardiff/Wembley years?

Ultimately none of this matters.

Whilst the new stadium remains a possibility JF will remain in control - it's his only real chance of having his loans paid off and would also create the legacy of him being the one to deliver a new stadium to the club/community/town rather than the current one of him being the man to take the club into non-league whilst racking up a mountain of debt.

The turning point will come if the new stadium is vetoed and stopped from happening.

Great bit of starting their Quagmire. Do you have the previous few years' figures handy?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Great bit of starting their Quagmire. Do you have the previous few years' figures handy?

1981   -59,671
1982   -33,289
1983   -145,029
1984   +132,862
1985   +194,186
1986   -302,050
1987   +66,554
1988  -254,351
1989   -76,791
1990   -53,366
1991  +229,504
1992  -169,826
1993  +325,888
1994  -262,425
1995  +103,666
1996 +593,531
1997  +539,845
1998 +1,341,003
1999 -950.739
2000 -1,032,473
2001 -2,332,118
2002 +1,072,753
2003 -99,504
2004 -532,180

1996 sold Gary croft for 1.7 mil
1997 sold John Oster for 2 mil
1998 2 x Wembley visits
2002  £3m rights fee first year payment from ITV Digital