Turning point in our history

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

As far as I am aware allot of the 3m debt came from paying off the previous boards mistakes,
The old board wanted to put GTFC in to bankruptcy after the ITV Digital debacle but JF paid it and them off to stop this happening.

Its ok to say in hindsight that allot of mistakes have been made but some we all would have made, appointing Mike Newell for instance was at the time on here regarded as a coup.
I must also admit though that  Neil Woods appointment was defiantly not the best decision the board has ever made

The only debt as far as the books were concerned was the tax debt from ITV digital crash, which the club paid back in agreed instalments and Ramsden which JF paid himself back in agreed instalments over several seasons.

The 3M+ debt against the clubs assets is the benign loans coming from paying off managers and players every season as JF exercised his trigger finger.

What you need to ask yourself is

Tax Debt + Ramdsen money = __________ (which the club paid back)
Fenty's benign loan =

That's the turning point but you know this.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Did anybody make him do this? Maybe bankruptcy would have been the right way to go - all hindsight, I know - but it was his decision to take the tax debt on.

Not saying it wasn't his choice but I suppose he felt the punishment the FA would have dealt out would have been to much for the club and taking on the debt was the better option. like I said hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Did anybody make him do this? Maybe bankruptcy would have been the right way to go - all hindsight, I know - but it was his decision to take the tax debt on.

At the time the vast majority of fans were pleased he had got to grips with it. It seems to be another inconvenient truth but there was only him who was willing to do so. Despite repeated claims on here that there are plenty of people who may be willing to invest absolutely nobody stuck their head above the parapet at that time and, of course, that was before there were any benign loans.As a fan, he should be applauded for choosing to do so as an alternative to bankruptcy
I don't know what bankruptcy means in terms of a football club but if one of the inevitable conclusions would have been liquidation then I remain very glad that we didn't let that particular genie out of the bottle......

The Fishy at its best
Great posts, good debate, food for thought, and respect for peoples' differing opinions
Won't comment cos it's all been said above - there is no balck and white in all of this - but enjoyed this thread

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

As far as I am aware allot of the 3m debt came from paying off the previous boards mistakes,
The old board wanted to put GTFC in to bankruptcy after the ITV Digital debacle but JF paid it and them off to stop this happening.

Its ok to say in hindsight that allot of mistakes have been made but some we all would have made, appointing Mike Newell for instance was at the time on here regarded as a coup.
I must also admit though that  Neil Woods appointment was defiantly not the best decision the board has ever made

JF appointed to the board on August 6th 2001, which is 8 months prior to ITV Digital going bust.  I can't remember what the options were for the club when that happened but I do remember Mike Rouse being paid off at some point but I think that was a fairly nominal amount (50k I think).

In terms of the £3million being used to pay off 'previous boards mistakes' you've only got to take a look at the club accounts, profit/loss in particular to see that the bulk of this debt has been created with JF at the helm.

Since dropping into League Two in 2004, the overall loss over the next 10 years now stands at over £2.5million

2005  -29,630
2006  +407,301
2007  -857,513
2008  +114,603
2009  -639,202
2010  -40,264
2011  -936,177
2012  +142,404
2013  -453,571
2014  -227,411

Source:  http://www.extra-gtfc.co.uk/accounts2/chart1.html

Profitable years in 2006 & 2008 due to Cardiff/Wembley appearances, 2012 Ryan Bennet fee?

You mention Woods being a poor appointment but there's a few others.

Graham Rodger sacked 5 months into a 2 year contract, plus players he signed like Beagrie (likely to be on good money) being paid off - a loss at the end of that season of 850,000

It looks like we went way OTT with the budget given to Woods in our first season down in this league, a loss of almost £1million - it doesn't matter how much money you've got to throw at the problem if you don't have the right man spending it.

What would the loss have been in 2013 had we not made it to Wembley in the FAT?

I know some will label me as a Fenty basher etc but you can't claim that the £3million that he is owed is down to 'previous boards mistakes' when you look at the club accounts.

Incidentally, I know people 'blame' PH for taking the FA Trophy so seriously but is that a directive from above that he MUST do all he can to get the club there when you consider the only profitable years we have had recently have been Cardiff/Wembley years?

Ultimately none of this matters.

Whilst the new stadium remains a possibility JF will remain in control - it's his only real chance of having his loans paid off and would also create the legacy of him being the one to deliver a new stadium to the club/community/town rather than the current one of him being the man to take the club into non-league whilst racking up a mountain of debt.

The turning point will come if the new stadium is vetoed and stopped from happening.

Quoted from Quagmire

JF appointed to the board on August 6th 2001, which is 8 months prior to ITV Digital going bust.  I can't remember what the options were for the club when that happened but I do remember Mike Rouse being paid off at some point but I think that was a fairly nominal amount (50k I think).

In terms of the £3million being used to pay off 'previous boards mistakes' you've only got to take a look at the club accounts, profit/loss in particular to see that the bulk of this debt has been created with JF at the helm.

Since dropping into League Two in 2004, the overall loss over the next 10 years now stands at over £2.5million

2005  -29,630
2006  +407,301
2007  -857,513
2008  +114,603
2009  -639,202
2010  -40,264
2011  -936,177
2012  +142,404
2013  -453,571
2014  -227,411

Source:  http://www.extra-gtfc.co.uk/accounts2/chart1.html

Profitable years in 2006 & 2008 due to Cardiff/Wembley appearances, 2012 Ryan Bennet fee?

You mention Woods being a poor appointment but there's a few others.

Graham Rodger sacked 5 months into a 2 year contract, plus players he signed like Beagrie (likely to be on good money) being paid off - a loss at the end of that season of 850,000

It looks like we went way OTT with the budget given to Woods in our first season down in this league, a loss of almost £1million - it doesn't matter how much money you've got to throw at the problem if you don't have the right man spending it.

What would the loss have been in 2013 had we not made it to Wembley in the FAT?

I know some will label me as a Fenty basher etc but you can't claim that the £3million that he is owed is down to 'previous boards mistakes' when you look at the club accounts.

Incidentally, I know people 'blame' PH for taking the FA Trophy so seriously but is that a directive from above that he MUST do all he can to get the club there when you consider the only profitable years we have had recently have been Cardiff/Wembley years?

Ultimately none of this matters.

Whilst the new stadium remains a possibility JF will remain in control - it's his only real chance of having his loans paid off and would also create the legacy of him being the one to deliver a new stadium to the club/community/town rather than the current one of him being the man to take the club into non-league whilst racking up a mountain of debt.

The turning point will come if the new stadium is vetoed and stopped from happening.

To be honest, I don't have the time to check all that but if it is correct that is post of the decade for me.

Quoted from arryarryarry

To be honest, I don't have the time to check all that but if it is correct that is post of the decade for me.

Yep, really helpful analysis that.

But did you Getyourfactsright?  

Quoted from Quagmire

JF appointed to the board on August 6th 2001, which is 8 months prior to ITV Digital going bust.  I can't remember what the options were for the club when that happened but I do remember Mike Rouse being paid off at some point but I think that was a fairly nominal amount (50k I think).

In terms of the £3million being used to pay off 'previous boards mistakes' you've only got to take a look at the club accounts, profit/loss in particular to see that the bulk of this debt has been created with JF at the helm.

Since dropping into League Two in 2004, the overall loss over the next 10 years now stands at over £2.5million

2005  -29,630
2006  +407,301
2007  -857,513
2008  +114,603
2009  -639,202
2010  -40,264
2011  -936,177
2012  +142,404
2013  -453,571
2014  -227,411

Source:  http://www.extra-gtfc.co.uk/accounts2/chart1.html

Profitable years in 2006 & 2008 due to Cardiff/Wembley appearances, 2012 Ryan Bennet fee?

You mention Woods being a poor appointment but there's a few others.

Graham Rodger sacked 5 months into a 2 year contract, plus players he signed like Beagrie (likely to be on good money) being paid off - a loss at the end of that season of 850,000

It looks like we went way OTT with the budget given to Woods in our first season down in this league, a loss of almost £1million - it doesn't matter how much money you've got to throw at the problem if you don't have the right man spending it.

What would the loss have been in 2013 had we not made it to Wembley in the FAT?

I know some will label me as a Fenty basher etc but you can't claim that the £3million that he is owed is down to 'previous boards mistakes' when you look at the club accounts.

Incidentally, I know people 'blame' PH for taking the FA Trophy so seriously but is that a directive from above that he MUST do all he can to get the club there when you consider the only profitable years we have had recently have been Cardiff/Wembley years?

Ultimately none of this matters.

Whilst the new stadium remains a possibility JF will remain in control - it's his only real chance of having his loans paid off and would also create the legacy of him being the one to deliver a new stadium to the club/community/town rather than the current one of him being the man to take the club into non-league whilst racking up a mountain of debt.

The turning point will come if the new stadium is vetoed and stopped from happening.

Thank you for that.

I guess youre saying with your head what some of have been saying with our hearts for long enough.

The only thing that surprised me is the amount spent in our first season in non league. It certainly didn't feel at the time that we were throwing money at it?

I have said for a while that it now depends on the new stadium. If it goes ahead I am assuming JF can find a way to pay himself back, and he can have something for his grandchildren to remember him by.

If it doesn't, then its still his call but what would be the point in carrying on just to lose more money over time?  

Was it not a loss of subsidy through tv rights and sponsorship in our first season?? If not then it is very worrying. £1m given to an inexperienced manager to play with is worrying