Negative fans attitude and its influence on the te

I have to say I agree with john fenty about how the fans negative attitude can badly influence things at bp

There are plenty of other examples of this happening at other clubs and the managers and players saying the same. I would almost go as far as saying it is fact.

John fenty never said it was all the fans fault. What he did say though, was poorly written, poorly timed and placed ontop of a recent history of snide comments on here aimed at the fans which meant what he was actually saying was easily perceived in a completely different way.

Yes, the negativity may hinder players performances, but this isn't the fans fault,  it has been born out of many different factors all of which have been covered on here recently

To stop this we need to look at how other clubs did it. It can't be done by cheap shots in interviews or even just asking fans like hurst did today. There needs to be a connection between the team and fans again and an overall club strategy explaining to the fans so they understand what the players are trying to do. Something to buy into.

Ian Holloway spent a lot of time at Blackpool educating the fans during interviews and at sportsman dinners about how they are trying to get the players to be more expansive and creative and the fans need to applaud mistakes if they want a more expansive game otherwise players go into their shells and opt for the safe option. Human nature.

Luton town had a very similar situation as ourselves. Henry confronted one fan saying how the negativity was harming the players performances. McNulty backing him. John still arranged a meeting with this fan- explained why they need the fans on board. Especially at home when a team comes to defend- and if after 20 mins they don't score that's when the fans need to start supporting not getting on the players back.

The same messages have been said by fenty, Scott and hurst and even mike newell but up till now in a completely different way. A siege mentality. Almost a Us verses them scenario being established. This is what creates further anger, frustration and  just cements the fans negativity.

I am encouraged by john fenty asking disgruntled fans for a meeting. The change must start from the top. I think hurst should also look at how john still and Ian holloway managed this situation and start building a rapport with the fans.

Of course a more attractive and expansive game would also help, but like at Blackpool and Luton, this is hard to implement in a negative environment.  

I hope this is the start of a change in tactics from fenty and co. Sometimes the importance of HOW a message is delivered is more important than what is actually said.

hope you have a hard hat  

The fact is fans will not just sit and support any old shite. If you cannot see that the performances are dull, boring and toothless, win, lose or draw then you're deluded IMO.

You can't just expect fans to be bored to tears and simply lap it all up.

Excellent post Salford. It's been mentioned by players that Town fans specifically getting on their backs is well known throughout football. I wasn't fully aware of this but apparently it's a GTFC trait that away teams try to actively exploit. Booing and negativity doesn't help anyone.

You may have a point, but it works both ways. Players have to lift the crowd and I'm afraid in recent times that just hasn't happened. I turn up at Blundell Park feeling utterly depressed, not because we're in the Conference but because it's the same old story and has been whilst Hurst has been here. Not one for booing and never have booed, but the other day I really felt like booing Nathan Arnold. I can take a lack of ability at the best of times, but a lack of interest, effort and poor attitude I can't.

Good, positive managers get teams out of the doldrums.

Hurst and Scott were just what was needed at the time. We were a rudderless ship and needed to stop the decline, steady the ship and regroup in calmer waters. We now need a fearless captain to steer us to choppier waters with more risks and Hurst isn't that man. IMO he should have gone with Scott and i said so at the time.

Hurst is a "that'll do-er", a "just enough-er" and will always be a safe pair of hands but he will never inspire the passion on and off the pitch that we are all craving after an eternity of mediocrity.

The fans will back this team to the hilt if they sense something in the air but when you see the likes of Arnold fannying around like a fart in a colander, then the fans have every right to moan.

If we're not winning because of a large amount of booing we should hammer Gateshead on Saturday!

Quoted from 3610

I have to say













actually said.

Thats better  

Quoted from Biccys

Excellent post Salford. It's been mentioned by players that Town fans specifically getting on their backs is well known throughout football. I wasn't fully aware of this but apparently it's a GTFC trait that away teams try to actively exploit. Booing and negativity doesn't help anyone.

FFS, how about getting out and about a bit and visiting other grounds, just how many times do people like you have to be told, it isn't just a Grimsby Town issue.

Really don't understand this fans being hostile and players not liking it etc... Bp is like a morgue and has been for a while, if they're really struggling with this then surely they shouldn't be football players..

Quoted from arryarryarry

FFS, how about getting out and about a bit and visiting other grounds, just how many times do people like you have to be told, it isn't just a Grimsby Town issue.

Who gives a intercourse if it happens at other grounds to. It's still wrong! Were Supporters for a reason - Because we love our team and we want them to do well. So surely our duty as supporters is to support not get on there backs even if things are going badly.

Quoted from Neilo83

Really don't understand this fans being hostile and players not liking it etc... Bp is like a morgue and has been for a while, if they're really struggling with this then surely they shouldn't be football players..

Thats the problem , the players can hear every word we say about them its that quiet  

Quoted from Neilo83

Really don't understand this fans being hostile and players not liking it etc... Bp is like a morgue and has been for a while, if they're really struggling with this then surely they shouldn't be football players..

They should sit in our seats and watch the passionless crap we watch.

If only we were sat in the play-off positions with a game or two in hand and one of the best defensive records in the league we wouldn't have to put up with all this moaning!  

I'm not saying it doesn't happen elsewhere but if you go to any ground they usually encourage and applaud when players try something that doesn't quite come off. BP is a morgue until someone makes a mistake, mislays a pass, misses a header etc, then it's a chorus of derision. Hardly an encouraging atmosphere and the players (Scotty Brown at least) have openly said it doesn't help matters. Think of Sunday league games, when one player make a mistake, do the other players get on his back and slash him off? No, they try and encourage "head up", " you're better than that ", " next time lad " not one single time did I hear "ffs that was excrement, get him off" when I played. That's the difference.

Like everyone's saying it's a 2 way street . Give us something to cheer about , we have been here far longer than all of the players  , been promised this and that but recieved nothing in return . I feel it's reached a point now when something has to happen or thats it for the club . Strong , yes , but it's that serious now .  Too many people are saying the same thing , to ignore it .   What surprises me is there have been no chants of Hurst out or what a load of rubbish . Is it because we are so bored we can't ge bothered .

I wonder what was said before and at HT of the Macclesfield game on NYD?
The players should I thought have come flying out the traps from the off to rectify the poor display against Lincoln.They were actually worse and I saw zero improvement after HT when Hurst should have been peeling the paint off the walls HURST = NEGATIVITY and NEGATIVITY = HURST

Quoted from Biccys

I'm not saying it doesn't happen elsewhere but if you go to any ground they usually encourage and applaud when players try something that doesn't quite come off. BP is a morgue until someone makes a mistake, mislays a pass, misses a header etc, then it's a chorus of derision. Hardly an encouraging atmosphere and the players (Scotty Brown at least) have openly said it doesn't help matters. Think of Sunday league games, when one player make a mistake, do the other players get on his back and slash him off? No, they try and encourage "head up", " you're better than that ", " next time lad " not one single time did I hear "ffs that was excrement, get him off" when I played. That's the difference.

Most Town fans will and in my experience do applaud when plays try things that sometimes doesn't come off.
BP is a morgue because the football on show is junk a lot of the time. What do you want people to do jump up and down shouting this is great all game???? the men in white coats would be dragging you away.
The players are at this club for a very short time so should stop moaning and grow some balls or intercourse off.
What the intercourse has Sunday football got to do with anything??? when was the last time you paid 18 quid to see a Sunday football game.  
Stop being like Fenty and blaming the fans and look at the cardboard cut out of a Manager we have for serving up such boring excrement.  

Quoted from Les Brechin

If only we were sat in the play-off positions with a game or two in hand and one of the best defensive records in the league we wouldn't have to put up with all this moaning!  

Yes Les, there is a certain irony there,    but only if we believe that the league position is a realistic one. Deep down I think many supporters feel it is false, the success is too fragile to last and the position achieved in spite of the manager not because of him.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

They should sit in our seats and watch the passionless crap we watch.

Fair point fans pay good money to watch Town play.Like Dav mariner said I don't mind us loosing if the effort is forthcoming .However what most fans cant stand is  lack of passion and effort .

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Yes Les, there is a certain irony there,    but only if we believe that the league position is a realistic one. Deep down I think many supporters feel it is false, the success is too fragile to last and the position achieved in spite of the manager not because of him.

This is the major point for me. It's Luton-syndrome...the crashing reality that hits (some) supporters that signals the lack of faith in the team/manager come the seasons end, regardless of how you start/where you are at New Year/who you beat and by how many.

I remember The Fishy acting in surprise just a couple of seasons back when Luton were on Money's back despite them being top 3 or 4.
We're now in that same position, I feel, that of being relatively 'well off' in terms of league position, being told to be thankful that we're in with a great chance of promotion by some, but deep down knowing that, like Money's Luton, we will bottle the major games and still be beaten by the most basic teams with their 30 fans after doing our bit and 'packing the Park'.

In Hurst we have our own Richard Money, and IMO we now need our John Still to push us that bit further over the line.
Just my own non-hysterical, non-abusive version of things.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

They should sit in our seats and watch the passionless crap we watch.

Shouldn't that be deck chair in your case?

I often go to Woking and the crowd rarely get on the players backs the way they do at BP. I think it's largely down to expectations. Woking are as high as they have ever been so the supporters are living a dream just being where they are. The biggest problem fans are BP seem to be those supporters, now in middle age, who grew up watching football three divisions higher. They seem to expect the standards of yesteryear in the Conference and it's totally unrealistic. All the negative vibes just rub off on the players and make it ever harder for the team to perform at home. The younger fans who have only known lower league or non-league football seem to be much happier with their lot and get behind the team a lot more. Our away support is fantastic and I am sure that's why we do so much better away from home.

Quoted from WokingMariner

I often go to Woking and the crowd rarely get on the players backs the way they do at BP. I think it's largely down to expectations. Woking are as high as they have ever been so the supporters are living a dream just being where they are. The biggest problem fans are BP seem to be those supporters, now in middle age, who grew up watching football three divisions higher. They seem to expect the standards of yesteryear in the Conference and it's totally unrealistic. All the negative vibes just rub off on the players and make it ever harder for the team to perform at home. The younger fans who have only known lower league or non-league football seem to be much happier with their lot and get behind the team a lot more. Our away support is fantastic and I am sure that's why we do so much better away from home.

See where your coming from , so it's  Alan Buckley fault .
I suppose we have well over 100 professional  clubs with supporters wanting to see good football week in week out . Unfortunately  being realistic it won't to the majority and us  under this regime . Conference  is awful , teams probably  see us as a yard stick to see how good they are , and up their game to a point  . We should be better , and prove that we are , just not happening .

Quoted from barralad

Shouldn't that be deck chair in your case?

Nowadays, yea.   seriously, they should watch how AFC Wimbledon applied themselves and be ashamed of their home record

Quoted from WokingMariner

I often go to Woking and the crowd rarely get on the players backs the way they do at BP. I think it's largely down to expectations. Woking are as high as they have ever been so the supporters are living a dream just being where they are. The biggest problem fans are BP seem to be those supporters, now in middle age, who grew up watching football three divisions higher. They seem to expect the standards of yesteryear in the Conference and it's totally unrealistic. All the negative vibes just rub off on the players and make it ever harder for the team to perform at home. The younger fans who have only known lower league or non-league football seem to be much happier with their lot and get behind the team a lot more. Our away support is fantastic and I am sure that's why we do so much better away from home.

I am one of those middle aged fans you talk about who grew up watching town play man city Leeds west ham Newcastle every week and all I expect is players to give everything every week regardless of ability but in the last decade or so ive seen more players who couldn't give a excrement than anything, now that really does urine me off. My fav player is the shop ...cos he's a top player ..well not really but because his effort and work rate is good

Quoted from WokingMariner

I often go to Woking and the crowd rarely get on the players backs the way they do at BP. I think it's largely down to expectations. Woking are as high as they have ever been so the supporters are living a dream just being where they are. The biggest problem fans are BP seem to be those supporters, now in middle age, who grew up watching football three divisions higher. They seem to expect the standards of yesteryear in the Conference and it's totally unrealistic. All the negative vibes just rub off on the players and make it ever harder for the team to perform at home. The younger fans who have only known lower league or non-league football seem to be much happier with their lot and get behind the team a lot more. Our away support is fantastic and I am sure that's why we do so much better away from home.

The point about younger fans is fair enough. Lincoln seem to have a good bunch with the Dambusters.

But support isn't why Town do better away. The side is set up to react to what other sides do. It is based on deep defence first and foremost. If the other side don't want to or are not good enough to push up and leave spaces for us to play behind them we are stuck. Lack of creativity and pace going forward, wingers playing as extra full backs, it just runs us into cul-de-sacs and we end up playing across them or knocking hopeful balls up to LJL. Away from home everything is a bonus and we accept that a result means more than playing well. At home we are not so forgiving.

The points on here about how it happens all over the country is rubbish. I've been to many games as a neutral over the years and I have never heard the venom that comes anywhere close to what it's like on some days at BP.

I accept that as paying supporters that everybody has the right to voice their views. But there's a fine line between criticism and abuse, one that seems to be often crossed by sections of support at BP.

To say that players need to be stronger mentally is also tosh. Imagine going into your job and having somebody shout at you constantly all day telling you your excrement, would you be able to hack it? The players are human.

Boo at the final whistle for sure if we've played badly but when Arnold doesn’t meet a pass in the first 30 seconds, ask yourself if it's really worth a barrage of abuse and hated?

Quoted from Rick12

Fair point fans pay good money to watch Town play.Like Dav mariner said I don't mind us loosing if the effort is forthcoming .However what most fans cant stand is  lack of passion and effort .

I have followed this debate with interest.  As someone who suffered the season before and the season of relegation to this league I feel I am qualified to understand what is meant by a lack of passion. It is only a few weeks ago that someone made reference to Poojah's famous rant after the Bath City game on that very subject.
What I am struggling to understand is how that definition of lack of passion can in any way be levelled at our current crop of players.They might not always get it right but the likes of Shaun Pearson, Carl Magnay, Scott Brown, LJL, and Toto always put in a shift. Some of the away performances, whilst not exactly putting the opposition to the sword, have seen passion displayed in abundance- thinking of Kiddy away and that fantastic day at Torquay. In fact the only case I've read about that for me holds water is Nathan Arnold but even then I have reservations-not every GTFC player needs to have the "ability" to put a player in Row C of the nearest stand.....  
IMO it is an "inconvenient truth" that away performances are better in general than those at home. There is of course a very strong argument for saying that tactically we are better suited to away matches where the home team have to come at you more. This aside only someone suffering from a terminal case of blinkers could dismiss the effect that the virtually unqualified wholehearted backing for the teams efforts which comes from Town's support has on performance. Only once this season have I left an away ground a bit deflated by the lack of performance and that was at Dartford. You only have to look at the reactions of the players-notably Pearson LJL and Magnay to know what it means to them.
It is unrealistic to expect that same level of vocal support at home where the fans are more spread out in a ground much larger than many we visit but there are some aspects which appear at home which simply don't away. It is almost as though at home we are waiting for the opposition to score first because when they do regardless of what has gone on before the atmosphere changes instantly.
I accept that it is chicken and egg and can of course understand the argument that success on the field makes for sweetness and light on the terraces but, at some point I genuinely believe that us the fans will have to moderate our behaviour.
An accusation of lack of passion sounds good and knowledgeable but in this case simply doesn't add up against the current squad. Is it an accusation that could be aimed at the home fan base? I really, genuinely don't know but reading the Fishy on a daily basis there is sometimes more passion displayed on here in one thread than I hear at B.P. on a Saturday...

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

The point about younger fans is fair enough. Lincoln seem to have a good bunch with the Dambusters.

But support isn't why Town do better away. The side is set up to react to what other sides do. It is based on deep defence first and foremost. If the other side don't want to or are not good enough to push up and leave spaces for us to play behind them we are stuck. Lack of creativity and pace going forward, wingers playing as extra full backs, it just runs us into cul-de-sacs and we end up playing across them or knocking hopeful balls up to LJL. Away from home everything is a bonus and we accept that a result means more than playing well. At home we are not so forgiving.

I accept it isn't the sole reason but it is stretching the point of believability to think that it doesn't have some effect. Footballers are not tactical "machines" that you can just programme to carry out certain tasks. I have no idea of your working background but I know that if a customer thanked me or a superior praised my efforts it gave me a buzz....

Quoted from Les Brechin

If only we were sat in the play-off positions with a game or two in hand and one of the best defensive records in the league we wouldn't have to put up with all this moaning!  

A come back and bite your rse statement when it pans out per usual at the seasons end Les

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Nowadays, yea.   seriously, they should watch how AFC Wimbledon applied themselves and be ashamed of their home record

Yeah it was a bit like the way we applied ourselves against Huddersfield last season. Some games don't require much winding up of the players, fans, etc. etc.

We won't know how Wimbledon apply themselves in home league matches for the rest of the season but.....

Quoted from barralad

I accept it isn't the sole reason but it is stretching the point of believability to think that it doesn't have some effect. Footballers are not tactical "machines" that you can just programme to carry out certain tasks. I have no idea of your working background but I know that if a customer thanked me or a superior praised my efforts it gave me a buzz....

Come on that never happened!!!

Quoted from barralad

I accept it isn't the sole reason but it is stretching the point of believability to think that it doesn't have some effect. Footballers are not tactical "machines" that you can just programme to carry out certain tasks. I have no idea of your working background but I know that if a customer thanked me or a superior praised my efforts it gave me a buzz....

Right enough Barra. I'm not saying players are robots, just that the expectations of fans away from home are a bit different. Look at the Gateshead fans at the weekend in a 0-7 defeat. At home, fans rightly expect more pro-active play and that is down to the way the team is set up and sent out to play more than anything else.

Quoted from BIGChris

Come on that never happened!!!

I can dream....

Quoted from Biccys

Excellent post Salford. It's been mentioned by players that Town fans specifically getting on their backs is well known throughout football. I wasn't fully aware of this but apparently it's a GTFC trait that away teams try to actively exploit. Booing and negativity doesn't help anyone.

The people I go with aren't negative people; we don't boo unless something shocking happens.

But we are fed up. Fed up with a decade or more of underachievement (putting it mildly), we are fed up with the whole matchday experience of seeing our beloved Mariners struggling to come to terms with a bunch of part time players.

Most of all we are fed up with the "Board" who have no plan or vision or enough money to do what they should have done 5 years ago - pay for the best manager and players who would give us the best shot of getting back to the league. We kept Neil Woods on for Gods sake!!

Like most (all?) things Mr.Fenty touches his posts on here haven't gone according to plan. Unlike at BP he is not surrounded by people who rely on him for their livelihood, and he has realized that funnily enough we don't think he is Gods gift to the Football Club.

Most of all I am fed up with the complete lack of ambition from all concerned. There is ONE guaranteed promotion in this league, and even at this low, non league level, we haven't set our stall out to go for it.

The playoffs should be a consolation prize (to win at all costs if we happen to be in them) but not an aspiration.  

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

The people I go with aren't negative people; we don't boo unless something shocking happens.

But we are fed up. Fed up with a decade or more of underachievement (putting it mildly), we are fed up with the whole matchday experience of seeing our beloved Mariners struggling to come to terms with a bunch of part time players.

Most of all we are fed up with the "Board" who have no plan or vision or enough money to do what they should have done 5 years ago - pay for the best manager and players who would give us the best shot of getting back to the league. We kept Neil Woods on for Gods sake!!

Like most (all?) things Mr.Fenty touches his posts on here haven't gone according to plan. Unlike at BP he is not surrounded by people who rely on him for their livelihood, and he has realized that funnily enough we don't think he is Gods gift to the Football Club.

Most of all I am fed up with the complete lack of ambition from all concerned. There is ONE guaranteed promotion in this league, and even at this low, non league level, we haven't set our stall out to go for it.

The playoffs should be a consolation prize (to win at all costs if we happen to be in them) but not an aspiration.  

Ditto all that and Amen !!!!
It's all the Fans fault though ............................................................  How can you tell a Yorshireman ?????? You cant tell him anything ..........................

Quoted from barralad

I have followed this debate with interest.  As someone who suffered the season before and the season of relegation to this league I feel I am qualified to understand what is meant by a lack of passion. It is only a few weeks ago that someone made reference to Poojah's famous rant after the Bath City game on that very subject.
What I am struggling to understand is how that definition of lack of passion can in any way be levelled at our current crop of players.They might not always get it right but the likes of Shaun Pearson, Carl Magnay, Scott Brown, LJL, and Toto always put in a shift. Some of the away performances, whilst not exactly putting the opposition to the sword, have seen passion displayed in abundance- thinking of Kiddy away and that fantastic day at Torquay. In fact the only case I've read about that for me holds water is Nathan Arnold but even then I have reservations-not every GTFC player needs to have the "ability" to put a player in Row C of the nearest stand.....  
IMO it is an "inconvenient truth" that away performances are better in general than those at home. There is of course a very strong argument for saying that tactically we are better suited to away matches where the home team have to come at you more. This aside only someone suffering from a terminal case of blinkers could dismiss the effect that the virtually unqualified wholehearted backing for the teams efforts which comes from Town's support has on performance. Only once this season have I left an away ground a bit deflated by the lack of performance and that was at Dartford. You only have to look at the reactions of the players-notably Pearson LJL and Magnay to know what it means to them.
It is unrealistic to expect that same level of vocal support at home where the fans are more spread out in a ground much larger than many we visit but there are some aspects which appear at home which simply don't away. It is almost as though at home we are waiting for the opposition to score first because when they do regardless of what has gone on before the atmosphere changes instantly.
I accept that it is chicken and egg and can of course understand the argument that success on the field makes for sweetness and light on the terraces but, at some point I genuinely believe that us the fans will have to moderate our behaviour.
An accusation of lack of passion sounds good and knowledgeable but in this case simply doesn't add up against the current squad. Is it an accusation that could be aimed at the home fan base? I really, genuinely don't know but reading the Fishy on a daily basis there is sometimes more passion displayed on here in one thread than I hear at B.P. on a Saturday...

Good post with many sensible points but but your last paragraph alludes to the chicken and egg thing. We are good away from home, so the fans are happy and positive. The alternative view is that we are good away BECAUSE the fans are positive.

You also talk of the fans moderating their behaviour, but where does that leave fans such as myself and my brother/mates with whom i attend home games? We will get animated when we are doing well and creating chances but generally sit in silence when we are playing as we did against Macclesfield. Yeah, we'll have a chunter but we don't shout abuse towards the players. The worst we will do is leave the ground early and have a right old moan on the way home. I will come on here and voice my concerns, which is what this site is for. If any players or club officials are offended by internet content, then i suggest they stay away.

I appreciate there are some very vocal fans and among that number are some who hurl abuse at every turn. They are probably hen pecked at home and need an outlet but those dissenting voices would be drowned out if we saw i bit more from the pitch. Those abuse hurlers are at every club in the country and despite what some on here think, we are not exceptional in that regard IMO.

I have no problem with my team losing games, it's football and it happens. It would become very boring if we won 3-0 every week. There is however a difference between defeat and surrender.

If the players are genuinely suffering because of the negativity, then i don't know what the answer is but it's becoming quite apparent that the weight of expectation is too much for some of our squad. That is probably why they are conference players in the end, because they just don't have the mental capacity for success and are happy to play for clubs with lower crowds and expectations.

It's a right old pickle for sure.

The problems can be solved if the players show 100% effort,

Then the crowd will be 100% behind them,

If you lose the ball the crowd will get on your back if you make no effort to get it back,

One player jogging back after he thought he was fouled will get the crowd calling you,

Make the effort to get back and they will applaud you whether you win the ball back or not,

Its the showing that you tried that counts.

I regard myself as a long-term moderate fan with reasonable views.

The product (results and entertainment) served up at BP is not currently fit for purpose.  Fans have every right to voice their criticism.  

When Lincoln can come here and outplay us (and other teams) it is real kick in the teeth.

Blaming the fans (all or in part) is like a bad workmen blaming his tools.  

The players and manager need to react in the same way as people do at work when getting a b ollocking.  Look at yourself, acknowledge the areas for improvement and play better individually and as a team. Show more spirit and desire.  

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

The people I go with aren't negative people; we don't boo unless something shocking happens.

But we are fed up. Fed up with a decade or more of underachievement (putting it mildly), we are fed up with the whole matchday experience of seeing our beloved Mariners struggling to come to terms with a bunch of part time players.

Most of all we are fed up with the "Board" who have no plan or vision or enough money to do what they should have done 5 years ago - pay for the best manager and players who would give us the best shot of getting back to the league. We kept Neil Woods on for Gods sake!!

Like most (all?) things Mr.Fenty touches his posts on here haven't gone according to plan. Unlike at BP he is not surrounded by people who rely on him for their livelihood, and he has realized that funnily enough we don't think he is Gods gift to the Football Club.

Most of all I am fed up with the complete lack of ambition from all concerned. There is ONE guaranteed promotion in this league, and even at this low, non league level, we haven't set our stall out to go for it.

The playoffs should be a consolation prize (to win at all costs if we happen to be in them) but not an aspiration.  

It's this sort of attitude which is the heart of the problem. We are a non-league side now, you have to accept that. If you set the bar so high that everything but finishing top of the league is a failure then you are always going to be disappointed. There are plenty of big clubs in this league with lots of money. We have no right to be top, great if we are, but you cannot demand it.

Quoted from WokingMariner

It's this sort of attitude which is the heart of the problem. We are a non-league side now, you have to accept that. If you set the bar so high that everything but finishing top of the league is a failure then you are always going to be disappointed. There are plenty of big clubs in this league with lots of money. We have no right to be top, great if we are, but you cannot demand it.

Town fans dont have an 'attitude' they are realists. When Town were a Championship club all knew that survival in that league for a club our size was good season.
Just as now they now know that winning this league is well within the bounds of a club of this size and should be the goal which it never has been because of the 'we will try for the play offs and see what happens' attitude from the very top down to fans like you.
As for as other clubs are concerned I couldnt give a toss about them. Its all about what we do.

Quoted from WokingMariner

It's this sort of attitude which is the heart of the problem. We are a non-league side now, you have to accept that. If you set the bar so high that everything but finishing top of the league is a failure then you are always going to be disappointed. There are plenty of big clubs in this league with lots of money. We have no right to be top, great if we are, but you cannot demand it.

We are not a non-league side. We are a league side that by sheer bad management finds itself in the conference. It is defeatist attitudes that got us where we are and defeatist attitudes on the pitch and in the boardroom that are keeping us here. We have every right to be top and every right to demand it.

I remember this from 5 years ago.

http://thefishy.co.uk/story.php?id=8501178

Another of Fenty's needless interfering statements. How JF sings a different tune now. I'm not comparing the two sets of players but interesting to see his approach to those without mental character then compared to what it seemingly is now.

"Weed out the weak minded" he said.

Quoted from Garth

A come back and bite your rse statement when it pans out per usual at the seasons end Les

It's got nothing to do with where we finish at the end of the season Garth, I'm talking about our position NOW. Ok, we've been pretty poor recently and there needs to be an improvement if we are to stay in the top 5 but the facts are we are currently still 4th with at least a 3 point cushion AND a game in hand over most of the chasing pack.

Because of the archaic promotion/relegation system still in this league it will always be pretty difficult to be THE best team out of 24. It's just the massive over-reaction on here from some posters is quite frankly laughable.

Quoted from Tommy

I remember this from 5 years ago.

http://thefishy.co.uk/story.php?id=8501178

Another of Fenty's needless interfering statements. How JF sings a different tune now. I'm not comparing the two sets of players but interesting to see his approach to those without mental character then compared to what it seemingly is now.

"Weed out the weak minded" he said.

There's a big difference though. We're fourth now (despite all the histrionics and self-searching), we were near the bottom of the league when he said that. The players have hardly failed this year, they have largely as a group done what they have been paid to do. I''d happily settle on being 4th on 6th January in whatever league we happen to be in every year for the rest of my life.

Quoted from GrimRob

There's a big difference though. We're fourth now (despite all the histrionics and self-searching), we were near the bottom of the league when he said that. The players have hardly failed this year, they have largely as a group done what they have been paid to do. I''d happily settle on being 4th on 6th January in whatever league we happen to be in every year for the rest of my life.

As it appears , does PH and JF.     About sums it up  i think .

UTM

Quoted from Tommy

I remember this from 5 years ago.

http://thefishy.co.uk/story.php?id=8501178

Another of Fenty's needless interfering statements. How JF sings a different tune now. I'm not comparing the two sets of players but interesting to see his approach to those without mental character then compared to what it seemingly is now.

"Weed out the weak minded" he said.

How time fly's eh

Quoted from WokingMariner

It's this sort of attitude which is the heart of the problem. We are a non-league side now, you have to accept that. If you set the bar so high that everything but finishing top of the league is a failure then you are always going to be disappointed. There are plenty of big clubs in this league with lots of money. We have no right to be top, great if we are, but you cannot demand it.

You miss the point entirely.

If a club of our size cannot aspire to come top of the Conference then we have to ask serious questions about the people running the club on our behalf.

And what if we slip, in time, further down the pyramid? Do we keep lowering the bar then?

Unless you are absolutely and ruthlessly focused on getting back our league status we could be down here or lower for donkeys years.  

Quoted from RoboCod

This is the major point for me. It's Luton-syndrome...the crashing reality that hits (some) supporters that signals the lack of faith in the team/manager come the seasons end, regardless of how you start/where you are at New Year/who you beat and by how many.

I remember The Fishy acting in surprise just a couple of seasons back when Luton were on Money's back despite them being top 3 or 4.
We're now in that same position, I feel, that of being relatively 'well off' in terms of league position, being told to be thankful that we're in with a great chance of promotion by some, but deep down knowing that, like Money's Luton, we will bottle the major games and still be beaten by the most basic teams with their 30 fans after doing our bit and 'packing the Park'.

In Hurst we have our own Richard Money, and IMO we now need our John Still to push us that bit further over the line.
Just my own non-hysterical, non-abusive version of things.

The same Money who won the play offs with Cambridge last year. Interesting he could do it at Cambridge with a smaller budget but lower expectations.

Finding a manager that can handle the crowds expectations is difficult, especially at this level. It's interesting that Still is an ex salesman, he knows how to manage his own reputation, others expectations and how to flog something! Ultimately he knows how to be 'liked', and it's a very difficult thing to learn.

Quoted from ginnywings

Good post with many sensible points but but your last paragraph alludes to the chicken and egg thing. We are good away from home, so the fans are happy and positive. The alternative view is that we are good away BECAUSE the fans are positive.

You also talk of the fans moderating their behaviour, but where does that leave fans such as myself and my brother/mates with whom i attend home games? We will get animated when we are doing well and creating chances but generally sit in silence when we are playing as we did against Macclesfield. Yeah, we'll have a chunter but we don't shout abuse towards the players. The worst we will do is leave the ground early and have a right old moan on the way home. I will come on here and voice my concerns, which is what this site is for. If any players or club officials are offended by internet content, then i suggest they stay away.

I appreciate there are some very vocal fans and among that number are some who hurl abuse at every turn. They are probably hen pecked at home and need an outlet but those dissenting voices would be drowned out if we saw i bit more from the pitch. Those abuse hurlers are at every club in the country and despite what some on here think, we are not exceptional in that regard IMO.

I have no problem with my team losing games, it's football and it happens. It would become very boring if we won 3-0 every week. There is however a difference between defeat and surrender.

If the players are genuinely suffering because of the negativity, then i don't know what the answer is but it's becoming quite apparent that the weight of expectation is too much for some of our squad. That is probably why they are conference players in the end, because they just don't have the mental capacity for success and are happy to play for clubs with lower crowds and expectations.

It's a right old pickle for sure.

Good post ginny  as always. My thoughts exactly!

Quoted from Youngy

The points on here about how it happens all over the country is rubbish. I've been to many games as a neutral over the years and I have never heard the venom that comes anywhere close to what it's like on some days at BP.

I accept that as paying supporters that everybody has the right to voice their views. But there's a fine line between criticism and abuse, one that seems to be often crossed by sections of support at BP.

To say that players need to be stronger mentally is also tosh. Imagine going into your job and having somebody shout at you constantly all day telling you your excrement, would you be able to hack it? The players are human.

Boo at the final whistle for sure if we've played badly but when Arnold doesn’t meet a pass in the first 30 seconds, ask yourself if it's really worth a barrage of abuse and hated?

It does happen. Not everywhere and not all the time, by any means. You could cut the atmosphere with a knife at Molyneaux when we played there a couple of times and the home support started to lose patience with Wolves. Doesn't happen so often in the Conference cos many clubs are just happy to be playing "the likes of Grimsby".

Quoted from WokingMariner

It's this sort of attitude which is the heart of the problem. We are a non-league side now, you have to accept that. If you set the bar so high that everything but finishing top of the league is a failure then you are always going to be disappointed. There are plenty of big clubs in this league with lots of money. We have no right to be top, great if we are, but you cannot demand it.

It's this sort of attitude, whereby mediocrity is acceptable, that has led us to this current place, and will continue to keep us here.

Quoted from WokingMariner

It's this sort of attitude which is the heart of the problem. We are a non-league side now, you have to accept that. If you set the bar so high that everything but finishing top of the league is a failure then you are always going to be disappointed. There are plenty of big clubs in this league with lots of money. We have no right to be top, great if we are, but you cannot demand it.

Oh dear. could have been written by our manager

Quoted from WokingMariner

It's this sort of attitude which is the heart of the problem. We are a non-league side now, you have to accept that. If you set the bar so high that everything but finishing top of the league is a failure then you are always going to be disappointed. There are plenty of big clubs in this league with lots of money. We have no right to be top, great if we are, but you cannot demand it.

So we just roll over and accept that our once-proud club is destined to play RaggedArse Rovers every week - just as long as Mr F builds a new stadium as his lasting memorial for taking the club to an all-time low.

We have a squad that has enough quality but not enough fight and a manager that doesn't know how to get the best out of them. Not so many weeks ago, we score 13 goals in a weekend yet have never repeated the shape of the team since - indeed two key players in that system (Nielson and Mclaughlin) regularly warm the bench. We loan in a lad who plays one friendly, score twice, is never given a chance and has score 3 in 2 since.

You may find this hard to believe, but I feel a bit sorry for John Fenty on this one. The board has funded a new player and we haven't given him a chance, like Humble, Walker, Winfarrah and Southwell before that.

I call bullshit on this thread for the following reasons,

The majority of Town fans backed the club to stop us going out of the league, these fans backed the club more than a handful of people moaning and getting on the players backs now.  For all the pro chanting and happy clapping it didn't stop us crashing out of the league.

Our budget is decided on home gates, PH and the players have to make BP a place were teams leave empty handed, the increased gates will mean a bigger budget.  The frustration is people know this, they back the team and the players collapse, we are in a cycle now and the only way out of it is for the players to step up and get the fans back on side and start turn in winning and convincing performances.

Town fans don't suffer fools any more, we had a decade of it.

Quoted from Marinerz93

I call bullshit on this thread for the following reasons,

The majority of Town fans backed the club to stop us going out of the league, these fans backed the club more than a handful of people moaning and getting on the players backs now.  For all the pro chanting and happy clapping it didn't stop us crashing our of the league.

Our budget is decided on home gates, PH and the players have to make BP a place were teams leave empty handed, the increased gates will mean a bigger budget.  The frustration is people know this, they back the team and the players collapse, we are in a cycle now and the only way out of it is for the players to step up and get the fans back on side and start turn in winning and convincing performances.

Town fans don't suffer fools any more, we had a of decade.

Good post, the only people that can effect our future from now till the end of the season is the Manager and the players, crowds don`t score goals or dictate tactics,

Great post to start this thread IMO. The part below sums it up for me.

Quoted from 3610

John fenty never said it was all the fans fault. What he did say though, was poorly written, poorly timed and placed ontop of a recent history of snide comments on here aimed at the fans which meant what he was actually saying was easily perceived in a completely different way.

No-one can doubt Fenty has good intentions but his decision making has been horrific. One of the scariest statements he made for me was along the lines of "I used to lie awake at night worrying how we would get people out to Great Coates.' Despite this he spent a fortune on it and put all his eggs in one basket. My worry is this was done for his ego rather than the good of the club.  

In terms of negativity at matches it certainly exists. Lots of other clubs have this but not all. I know people who've moved their season ticket seats to get away from people who constantly moan at matches. This hasn't been helped by the last 10 years but it went on long before that. Even Alan Buckley in his heyday got wound up by it and players like Danny Butterfield and Tommy Widdrington certainly suffered. I really hope the mentality of 'give your all and we'll get behind you' still exists but the criticism of Lenny earlier in the season suggests not. The atmosphere at a lot of grounds and at BP in the past comes from a pride in your team and perhaps more importantly a pride in your town. Unfortunately and understandably this has disappeared over the last 20 years. The decline of the football club mirrors the decline of the town in general. Both need to improve before we have something to be proud of again.  

Quoted from Vance Warner

Great post to start this thread IMO. The part below sums it up for me.



No-one can doubt Fenty has good intentions but his decision making has been horrific. One of the scariest statements he made for me was along the lines of "I used to lie awake at night worrying how we would get people out to Great Coates.' Despite this he spent a fortune on it and put all his eggs in one basket. My worry is this was done for his ego rather than the good of the club.  

In terms of negativity at matches it certainly exists. Lots of other clubs have this but not all. I know people who've moved their season ticket seats to get away from people who constantly moan at matches. This hasn't been helped by the last 10 years but it went on long before that. Even Alan Buckley in his heyday got wound up by it and players like Danny Butterfield and Tommy Widdrington certainly suffered. I really hope the mentality of 'give your all and we'll get behind you' still exists but the criticism of Lenny earlier in the season suggests not. The atmosphere at a lot of grounds and at BP in the past comes from a pride in your team and perhaps more importantly a pride in your town. Unfortunately and understandably this has disappeared over the last 20 years. The decline of the football club mirrors the decline of the town in general. Both need to improve before we have something to be proud of again.  

Gets a tick from me. I'd be at far more games if the players were sent out with the right mentality. Just get bored of the passive attitude of the manager and team and the chairman's willingness to put up with it.

The stadium thing is interesting. I'm becoming more and more concerned that it is either a) Fenty's attempt at glossing over the decade of disaster by appeasing the fans or b) a distraction from the more obvious need to climb the leagues or possibly both.

I get and understand most of all the responses on here, of when people are listing their reasons why there is a toxic atmosphere at BP.  I can relate to them.

But this isn't about listing the reasons, it's about how you can change an unhelpful atmosphere to help maximise the players performances.

In professional sport the 1% is often talked about being the difference between winning and losing. Good coaches and team set ups strive to make sure everything is in their favour to get that extra 1% over the opposition. With our home crowd it's almost like losing 10%!

The viewpoint of 'fans won't just support any old crap' and 'they should sit in our seats' I understand where you are coming from. They should get some insight on what's like being a fan.

And when the management say 'we are trying 100%', 'we are fourth in the table' etc I also get their point. And the fans need to see this from behind closed doors to see their side of things. What they are trying to do. How the fans can help or hinder.

That is why john stills move to get the fans involved was a master stroke. It broke the standoff. It closed the gap between fan and player. One team.

There are a few posters on here who would be ideal candidates to take fenty up on his offer for a chat. Go talk to him. Hopefully he has changed tack enough and doesn't just list his reasons for his attitude and you get something constructive from it. It's a start

If you don't go and talk then stop posting the same stuff on here every week. Cos if it bothers you that much, then here is an opportunity for you to start a change. It helped at Luton- why not here?

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

The point about younger fans is fair enough. Lincoln seem to have a good bunch with the Dambusters.

But support isn't why Town do better away. The side is set up to react to what other sides do. It is based on deep defence first and foremost. If the other side don't want to or are not good enough to push up and leave spaces for us to play behind them we are stuck. Lack of creativity and pace going forward, wingers playing as extra full backs, it just runs us into cul-de-sacs and we end up playing across them or knocking hopeful balls up to LJL. Away from home everything is a bonus and we accept that a result means more than playing well. At home we are not so forgiving.

You're right that the team is set up in a way benefits away performances, but still I think the original poster is right. I've lived almost my whole adult life away from Grimsby so mainly go to away games and the atmosphere on the few occasions I go to home games now is so toxic, I've actually arranged to come home and see the family on occasions when there's not even a home game happening, because it's so depressing being at BP- unthinkable during the Buckley years.

I'd far rather go to away games, where there are always at least 500 Town fans who are committed, back the team, and provide the sort of support we could really do with at home.

Quoted from tanga_the_indestructible

You're right that the team is set up in a way benefits away performances, but still I think the original poster is right. I've lived almost my whole adult life away from Grimsby so mainly go to away games and the atmosphere on the few occasions I go to home games now is so toxic, I've actually arranged to come home and see the family on occasions when there's not even a home game happening, because it's so depressing being at BP- unthinkable during the Buckley years.

I'd far rather go to away games, where there are always at least 500 Town fans who are committed, back the team, and provide the sort of support we could really do with at home.

The support is there at home games but the players and the manager seem so inept to do the simple things that win football matches

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

We are not a non-league side. We are a league side that by sheer bad management finds itself in the conference. It is defeatist attitudes that got us where we are and defeatist attitudes on the pitch and in the boardroom that are keeping us here. We have every right to be top and every right to demand it.

Delicious irony..   What about the defeatist attitudes on here? Since 4:50 p.m. on New Years Day this whole board has been a very large pot of relentless negativity with each new thread seemingly trying to outdo the previous one for the post apocalyptic depths to which it is prepared to go.. Anyone who challenges this is accused of not living in the real world. Some even concede that they were realists in the days of the Championship knowing we were punching above our weight but cannot, seemingly adapt that realism to our current situation. Despite that, I remember clearly that there were people for whom Championship football wasn't enough. I remember the "vox pop" interviews in the streets when Buckley was sacked in 2000 and there was quite a lot of comment along the lines of "Well he's taken us as far as he can" I was gutted when we were relegated and even more so at the end of our first season because we hadn't gone straight back up. This was because I knew in my heart that season on season it would get harder to get back as budgetary constraints kicked in when parachute payments ended and the funding for our youth system ended.
Instead of "slowly falling out of love with the club" (Where IS FFS when you need him my coping mechanism consisted of trying to do my bit and not treating every defeat/setback as a dagger to my heart. You see if I'd felt as the likes of  PontoonLew do where there is an obvious need to write a heartfelt "Dear John" (no pun intended) letter I know that I'd have just stopped going.That doesn't mean I don't appreciate his feelings but different people deal with things in different ways. I won't be on my own in this but I've had a lot happen to me in the last ten years that really do put football and GTFC into perspective. I live in the perpetual hope that the team will turn the corner but, to be honest, I actually think I'd continue to watch them regardless (ooops! as I write this I have an image of the likes of TAGG building up to spontaneous combustion ) . It won't be a popular view but it is mine and I have no problem sharing it. When I was younger I always had a soft spot for fans who followed teams like Rochdale (given the area they lived in). For years they had nothing to show for their support other than trying to achieve the record for the number of successful applications for re-election). Now they are living the dream. Football fan-ism is a cyclical thing. At least we've been there and there is no reason why we cannot get back-eventually. If not, well there is always the chance to sample the food at Kidderminster....  

Quoted from ackomariner

The support is there at home games but the players and the manager seem so inept to do the simple things that win football matches

1. It's qualified support

2. Patently untrue....we've won considerably more matches than we've lost...

Quoted from barralad

Delicious irony..   What about the defeatist attitudes on here? Since 4:50 p.m. on New Years Day this whole board has been a very large pot of relentless negativity with each new thread seemingly trying to outdo the previous one for the post apocalyptic depths to which it is prepared to go.. Anyone who challenges this is accused of not living in the real world. Some even concede that they were realists in the days of the Championship knowing we were punching above our weight but cannot, seemingly adapt that realism to our current situation. Despite that, I remember clearly that there were people for whom Championship football wasn't enough. I remember the "vox pop" interviews in the streets when Buckley was sacked in 2000 and there was quite a lot of comment along the lines of "Well he's taken us as far as he can" I was gutted when we were relegated and even more so at the end of our first season because we hadn't gone straight back up. This was because I knew in my heart that season on season it would get harder to get back as budgetary constraints kicked in when parachute payments ended and the funding for our youth system ended.
Instead of "slowly falling out of love with the club" (Where IS FFS when you need him my coping mechanism consisted of trying to do my bit and not treating every defeat/setback as a dagger to my heart. You see if I'd felt as the likes of  PontoonLew do where there is an obvious need to write a heartfelt "Dear John" (no pun intended) letter I know that I'd have just stopped going.That doesn't mean I don't appreciate his feelings but different people deal with things in different ways. I won't be on my own in this but I've had a lot happen to me in the last ten years that really do put football and GTFC into perspective. I live in the perpetual hope that the team will turn the corner but, to be honest, I actually think I'd continue to watch them regardless (ooops! as I write this I have an image of the likes of TAGG building up to spontaneous combustion ) . It won't be a popular view but it is mine and I have no problem sharing it. When I was younger I always had a soft spot for fans who followed teams like Rochdale (given the area they lived in). For years they had nothing to show for their support other than trying to achieve the record for the number of successful applications for re-election). Now they are living the dream. Football fan-ism is a cyclical thing. At least we've been there and there is no reason why we cannot get back-eventually. If not, well there is always the chance to sample the food at Kidderminster....  

Probably the most sensible sentence in this whole debate!

Quoted from barralad

Delicious irony..   What about the defeatist attitudes on here? Since 4:50 p.m. on New Years Day this whole board has been a very large pot of relentless negativity with each new thread seemingly trying to outdo the previous one for the post apocalyptic depths to which it is prepared to go.. Anyone who challenges this is accused of not living in the real world. Some even concede that they were realists in the days of the Championship knowing we were punching above our weight but cannot, seemingly adapt that realism to our current situation. Despite that, I remember clearly that there were people for whom Championship football wasn't enough. I remember the "vox pop" interviews in the streets when Buckley was sacked in 2000 and there was quite a lot of comment along the lines of "Well he's taken us as far as he can" I was gutted when we were relegated and even more so at the end of our first season because we hadn't gone straight back up. This was because I knew in my heart that season on season it would get harder to get back as budgetary constraints kicked in when parachute payments ended and the funding for our youth system ended.
Instead of "slowly falling out of love with the club" (Where IS FFS when you need him my coping mechanism consisted of trying to do my bit and not treating every defeat/setback as a dagger to my heart. You see if I'd felt as the likes of  PontoonLew do where there is an obvious need to write a heartfelt "Dear John" (no pun intended) letter I know that I'd have just stopped going.That doesn't mean I don't appreciate his feelings but different people deal with things in different ways. I won't be on my own in this but I've had a lot happen to me in the last ten years that really do put football and GTFC into perspective. I live in the perpetual hope that the team will turn the corner but, to be honest, I actually think I'd continue to watch them regardless (ooops! as I write this I have an image of the likes of TAGG building up to spontaneous combustion ) . It won't be a popular view but it is mine and I have no problem sharing it. When I was younger I always had a soft spot for fans who followed teams like Rochdale (given the area they lived in). For years they had nothing to show for their support other than trying to achieve the record for the number of successful applications for re-election). Now they are living the dream. Football fan-ism is a cyclical thing. At least we've been there and there is no reason why we cannot get back-eventually. If not, well there is always the chance to sample the food at Kidderminster....  

Nice post Barra and I appreciate your points.

Negativity? I plead guilty but there is no irony. I'm only negative about the self-evident lack of positivity in the club and on the pitch. Perhaps not negativity then, just moaning. I'm negative about the way the club is run and the way the team is managed because I know that something could be done about both issues given the will power and determination. Promotion per se is not necessarily about money either though it obviously helps. It is about getting rid of silly ideas like for example keeping the bench warm with players who are never played or given 10 minutes here and there. We should have been signing players who offer immediate benefits to a promotion push.

Realistic? I am a confessed unrealistic in the sense of not accepting where we are as a status quo but I am completely realistic about where we should be and how to get there. It is possible if the club really puts all the energy into it. Put aside the time and cash being spent on a new stadium for a bit and concentrate 100% on getting the club back where it belongs.

Cyclical? Totally agree. I learned that lesson as a kid in the old boys paddock in 1957 when we were about to be relegated and 1962 when we stormed back into Div 2 only to sink again 3 years later. Two relegations and a promotion in 7 years. But the lesson we learn from that is that you cannot stand still in football either on the pitch or in the boardroom. You either go up or you go down. There is no happy medium.

My bottom line in this is that I would accept the club oscillating between Leagues 1 & 2 but not between L2 and the conference. We are a league club and we need to get in there fast before things get worse. This issue is about money as well though, in the long term as gates decline further and a new ground becomes essential rather than just desirable.

Quoted from barralad

Delicious irony..   What about the defeatist attitudes on here? Since 4:50 p.m. on New Years Day this whole board has been a very large pot of relentless negativity with each new thread seemingly trying to outdo the previous one for the post apocalyptic depths to which it is prepared to go.. Anyone who challenges this is accused of not living in the real world. Some even concede that they were realists in the days of the Championship knowing we were punching above our weight but cannot, seemingly adapt that realism to our current situation. Despite that, I remember clearly that there were people for whom Championship football wasn't enough. I remember the "vox pop" interviews in the streets when Buckley was sacked in 2000 and there was quite a lot of comment along the lines of "Well he's taken us as far as he can" I was gutted when we were relegated and even more so at the end of our first season because we hadn't gone straight back up. This was because I knew in my heart that season on season it would get harder to get back as budgetary constraints kicked in when parachute payments ended and the funding for our youth system ended.
Instead of "slowly falling out of love with the club" (Where IS FFS when you need him my coping mechanism consisted of trying to do my bit and not treating every defeat/setback as a dagger to my heart. You see if I'd felt as the likes of  PontoonLew do where there is an obvious need to write a heartfelt "Dear John" (no pun intended) letter I know that I'd have just stopped going.That doesn't mean I don't appreciate his feelings but different people deal with things in different ways. I won't be on my own in this but I've had a lot happen to me in the last ten years that really do put football and GTFC into perspective. I live in the perpetual hope that the team will turn the corner but, to be honest, I actually think I'd continue to watch them regardless (ooops! as I write this I have an image of the likes of TAGG building up to spontaneous combustion ) . It won't be a popular view but it is mine and I have no problem sharing it. When I was younger I always had a soft spot for fans who followed teams like Rochdale (given the area they lived in). For years they had nothing to show for their support other than trying to achieve the record for the number of successful applications for re-election). Now they are living the dream. Football fan-ism is a cyclical thing. At least we've been there and there is no reason why we cannot get back-eventually. If not, well there is always the chance to sample the food at Kidderminster....  

Yes we ( well most) diehard fans still continue to go; some of us for 50 years or more, and yes I suppose if things got even worse we would still continue to go.

The trouble is the more you get used to it (being non league) the harder it will be to get back. We have a history and tradition that clubs like Rochdale can only dream about ( and I too very much respect Rochdale and their fans) but I can see us being another Accrington and it taking decades to get back if we are not careful.

You may argue that being in division 5 isn't all bad, there are  some professional clubs in there and we have a better chance than Accrington ever did to get back due to the pyramid system, but we have been saying these things for many years now. We thought we would bounce back after relegation from the Championship, from League 1, League 2 so who is say we have reached the bottom yet?

The truth is, however anybody dresses it up, is that we have been appallingly led by those who own the club for many years. I cannot do anything about it. You can't do anything about it. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result, and I just don't see any way to break the cycle until/unless the club is run differently by some new people; but that scenario looks years away unless a minor miracle occurs and the new stadium is actually built and BP is sold .

So, I will continue to go to the games, as I assume the majority on here will, but with less passion than in previous times, hoping we might be able to win the play offs if we get there; but new generations of fans will not put up with that I don't think. They will need to see a club with ambition and one that is geared for success.

Previous generations have ensured that the foundations are there for success really - a good fan base, history, tradition and a stadium that when rocking still looks the part, but whereas a lot of smaller clubs have through a combination of money/strategy/infrastructure/investment have made great strides that have left some traditional clubs trapped in the dark ages.  

It is a terrible shame, but I guess each of us will have to react to current circumstances in our different ways.      

Do you know what? The fact that people are still "moaning" as some put it is actually a good sign. A sign that people still care enough about this club and want to see a change. When people stop moaning and just accept it, then that's when the club will seriously be in the excrement.

I hear more and more comments along the lines of " i'm past caring" or " i just don't want to go anymore" or " it's fooking boring".  That is the scary bit.

Someone , somewhere needs to shake this club out of it's lethargy before it's too late. We can only keep plodding along so long with the diehard 3000 fans. Something has to be done to get those floating fans back at BP before they are gone forever and we need to do everything in our power to keep the ones that still go every week before they too start drifting away too.

Quoted from ginnywings

Do you know what? The fact that people are still "moaning" as some put it is actually a good sign. A sign that people still care enough about this club and want to see a change. When people stop moaning and just accept it, then that's when the club will seriously be in the excrement.

I hear more and more comments along the lines of " i'm past caring" or " i just don't want to go anymore" or " it's fooking boring".  That is the scary bit.

Someone , somewhere needs to shake this club out of it's lethargy before it's too late. We can only keep plodding along so long with the diehard 3000 fans. Something has to be done to get those floating fans back at BP before they are gone forever and we need to do everything in our power to keep the ones that still go every week before they too start drifting away too.

As usual Ginny, you've hit the nail on the head. If I was past caring, I wouldn't spend so long on here moaning about what has befallen our club. I'm proud of GTFC but I'm not proud of where we are or how we're run.

I read on Facebook when Skint was on that one of my 'friends' was ashamed of Grimsby - how can you be ashamed of your own heritage which, in my case, meant going to Blundell Park when I was 4, having a junior season ticket etc. This is where it hurts, when you see supposed professionals pulling on the same colours that have been worn by so many with so much pride and then playing like they've been paid yesterday and now don't give a excrement till next payday.

Is it because the players don't allow themselves to connect with the fans? I can understand why due to the duration of the contract but even the manager still lives in Rotherham, so how can he understand the pride and tradition that the fans feel?

There are far more questions than answers and I'll always be a Mariner, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Quoted from Vance Warner

I really hope the mentality of 'give your all and we'll get behind you' still exists but the criticism of Lenny earlier in the season suggests not.  

Excellent point. It is absolute bollox to suggest Town fans get behind players who try their hardest. The treatment of LJL proves this.

Fans DO have to take some responsibility here. It certainly IS a problem and it certainly DOES have an effect on player performance.

How many Toxic fans do we have, a handful, two handfuls, I call bullshit again, there are no where near the amount of fans people claim on here that make the players under perform and miss key opportunities during the game.  Is it the fans fault that PH sets his teams up to cancel out the opposition, it may get you a few wins but it would explain why we aren't convincing and we have very little self belief that PH will get us promoted.

I would love to be proven wrong and PH turns countless home convincing wins whilst guiding us to promotion.  What I will say is more likely is that our gates will continue to fall until we are hovering around 2,000 and JF will say the budget has to be cut but there will always be money to bring in players who make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.

The only way to silence critics is to start winning at home and be more convincing, not bleating that someone said something you didn't like.

I think fans can take a defeat, but we have had too many at home this season. However I think it is more to do with the manner of many of the defeats, when we know that if those on the pitch do the right things, play to their potential then we need not have lost as many as we have. In defeat it is natural to look for reasons and people to blame. That's life I am afraid.

Quoted from psgmariner

Excellent point. It is absolute bollox to suggest Town fans get behind players who try their hardest. The treatment of LJL proves this.

Fans DO have to take some responsibility here. It certainly IS a problem and it certainly DOES have an effect on player performance.

LJL got a lot of stick when he was barely scoring because he missed a lot of easy chances that you'd expect a professional footballer to score. Since he's hit a bit of goalscoring form and starred in the club's Christmas video I think supporters have started to appreciate his efforts and I've certainly noticed a lot more praise and less criticism towards him in the stands. Yeah, everyone still groans when he misses chances, but that's human nature and would happen at any club.

I'm struggling to think of anyone who has played for us and been on the receiving end of abuse while putting in 100% commitment on the pitch. Even less skilled players like Michael Leary, Bradley Wood and Nick Hegarty have been recognised for their effort. In general, it's players who look lazy and unconcerned on the pitch, regardless of their contribution to the team who typically draw the fiercest abuse from supporters (e.g. Bore, Arnold, Hatton and nearly everyone Mike Newell signed).

Quoted from Chrisblor

LJL got a lot of stick when he was barely scoring because he missed a lot of easy chances that you'd expect a professional footballer to score. Since he's hit a bit of goalscoring form and starred in the club's Christmas video I think supporters have started to appreciate his efforts and I've certainly noticed a lot more praise and less criticism towards him in the stands. Yeah, everyone still groans when he misses chances, but that's human nature and would happen at any club.

I'm struggling to think of anyone who has played for us and been on the receiving end of abuse while putting in 100% commitment on the pitch. Even less skilled players like Michael Leary, Bradley Wood and Nick Hegarty have been recognised for their effort. In general, it's players who look lazy and unconcerned on the pitch, regardless of their contribution to the team who typically draw the fiercest abuse from supporters (e.g. Bore, Arnold, Hatton and nearly everyone Mike Newell signed).

I've nothing against the bloke personally but do you think he would be as popular as he is and be on a video if he had missed a couple of penalties and not had that little scoring run?

He would still be trying hard and the manager would definitely be picking him regardless but I bet the fans would be on his back no matter how much running about the lad did. Wholehearted effort is applauded but a player has to do the job they are paid for as well. Strikers have to score goals. If that stops, so does the applause.

The missing 3000 can not all be wrong.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I've nothing against the bloke personally but do you think he would be as popular as he is and be on a video if he had missed a couple of penalties and not had that little scoring run?

He would still be trying hard and the manager would definitely be picking him regardless but I bet the fans would be on his back no matter how much running about the lad did. Wholehearted effort is applauded but a player has to do the job they are paid for as well. Strikers have to score goals. If that stops, so does the applause.

The problem is "the applause stopping" is nuetral, getting on his back isn't, it is negative and counter-productive.

Quoted from friskneymariner

The missing 3000 can not all be wrong.

How do you work that out?

We averaged 3500 last season, 3800 the season before, and before PH came we averaged 3000.

This season we are averaging. nearly 3600! A few more bums are actually on seats than they were a year ago, and considerably more than when PH came.

Quoted from GrimRob

How do you work that out?

We averaged 3500 last season, 3800 the season before, and before PH came we averaged 3000.

This season we are averaging. nearly 3600! A few more bums are actually on seats than they were a year ago, and considerably more than when PH came.

If the season was over it could be claimed as a gradual improvement but the season isn't over yet Rob, the pendulum hasn't finished swinging  

Quoted from GrimRob

How do you work that out?

We averaged 3500 last season, 3800 the season before, and before PH came we averaged 3000.

This season we are averaging. nearly 3600! A few more bums are actually on seats than they were a year ago, and considerably more than when PH came.

There you go again Rob-letting the facts get in the way of mythology. If I hadn't turned off my ticks and crosses feature you'd be getting a big, fat cross!

Quoted from oldun

I think fans can take a defeat, but we have had too many at home this season. However I think it is more to do with the manner of many of the defeats, when we know that if those on the pitch do the right things, play to their potential then we need not have lost as many as we have. In defeat it is natural to look for reasons and people to blame. That's life I am afraid.

I agree, why does Hurst set up the team so defensively at home.

To travel all the way from Suffolk to watch a rare home game ( I get to more away games )

To find out Hurst starts the game with one striker,

Do you not have any confidence  in your team Hurst ?

Start the game on the front foot and attack and you will find the fans will get behind the team and you.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I agree, why does Hurst set up the team so defensively at home.

To travel all the way from Suffolk to watch a rare home game ( I get to more away games )

To find out Hurst starts the game with one striker,

Do you not have any confidence  in your team Hurst ?

Start the game on the front foot and attack and you will find the fans will get behind the team and you.

I know sweet F.A. about tactics but I'd challenge the view that we've started any of the last 3 home games with one striker. Our failure to win v Lincoln and Macc was as much to do with missed chances...

Quoted from barralad

I know sweet F.A. about tactics but I'd challenge the view that we've started any of the last 3 home games with one striker. Our failure to win v Lincoln and Macc was as much to do with missed chances...

I would put it more down to us being sh!te defensively and having two wide men who couldn't get passed my dead granny.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I would put it more down to us being sh!te defensively and having two wide men who couldn't get passed my dead granny.

Yeah but we didn't start with one striker?

It seems pretty obvious that those in charge do believe that there is a negative attitude.

The major shareholder certainly thinks so. The manager has mentionned it on more than one occasion and apparently the players feel it too. Whether us the fans think it is an issue is pretty much a mute point as 'the club' really do.

So, what steps are being done to combat this negative attitude? ... from what I can see apart from berrating the fans they're doing nothing. Saying that there is a negative attitude is a self fufilling prophecy - you keep telling us we're negative and we will be negative. having a go at your own support creates an us vs them mentality between those employed by the club and the supporters. A seige mentallity can help but I think that is the club (and fans against the world) not alienating your support.

The fans are feeling under appreciated - we've backed this club numerous times, we spend our hard earned cash on the club, invest our time. Not to the extent of the board etc but we do what we can with the finances and spare time we have. Speaking personally it isn't easy attending games. I'm married with 2 young kids, taking the time and the money out of the family to go to the football is a sacrifice for my family. Being told I'm negative or not supporting the club enough means that it gets harder to justify this.

The club need to engage better with the fans. Not ranting on message boards, not using the media to have snide digs but proper interaction. As a link between the club and the fans I'd expect the trust to be doing something here.

Some thoughts:
There has to be something that can be done?

I'm not a fan of the drum or musical instruments at games but I acknowledge that the upper left of the pontoon make the most noise, can those fans tickets be subsidised in anyway?
If people don't like the noise o the language used how about opening up part of the Osmand for a "noisy" section where fans are actively encouraged to sing/make noise? Again, could these tickets be cheaper in order to fill the stand - could these tickets be offered to those who have recently travelled away as a thank you for our excellent away support?
Can we not use the media positively? A couple of interviews or press releases with an "in this together" type of message, thanking the fans for turning out - we do back the club in numbers 7.5k against Lincoln is a phenomenal gate for this level of football and we were critisised.
Can we engage with the younger generation in anyway?

The relationship between the club and the fans is in danger of being damaged. But it is recoverable with some work. At the minute we're being taken for granted. People will start to stay away we'll fill our time with families,MOTD, Sky sports FIFA and other distractions. Then the club will really suffer.

Great post Darren, spot on for me.

I don't blame the current set of players for where we are, they are making a decent fist of this season and are in with a shout of promotion, although Hurst has not been exciting anyone, he has made us tricky to beat and for years that hasn't been the case.

I think the team are suffering the frustration of years of failure and it's not fair to put that on them, they will have off days but we usually get a shift from them.

I am not saying we should accept where the club are but I think the frustration is being directed at the wrong people.

Quoted from GrimRob

How do you work that out?

We averaged 3500 last season, 3800 the season before, and before PH came we averaged 3000.

This season we are averaging. nearly 3600! A few more bums are actually on seats than they were a year ago, and considerably more than when PH came.

Extra season ticket sales this season?