Town v Wrexham comparisons

Out of interest, I have taken a look at how the 2 clubs gave fared since being relegated to the conference. Both clubs have similar  attendances averaging around 3-3500.
Population of Wrexham 2011 census 135,000
Population of N E Lincs 2011 census 159, 000

Wrexham FC turnover 2012/13. £2.3 million. Profit £250k
Town.             turnover 2012/13 £1.93 million. Loss £395k

Both have been close to promotion in recent years. Below is the full comparison:-

                               Wrexham                      Town
Year 1 Finish.            10th.                             11th
Year 2.                       11th.                             11th
Year 3.                  Lost in p/offs.                 Lost in p/offs
Year 4.                  Lost in p/offs.                 Lost in p/offs
Year 5.                  Lost in p/offs
Year 6.                       17th
Currently                     3rd.                             13th

Changed Manager
                         End year 3.                  End year 1
                         End year 6.                  Mid year 4 (was it really a change though?)

Shows how tough it can be to get out of this league

All very interesting , aren't they owned by the fans now ?
They have got a new manager now , Nuneaton was it ?  
Town is my priority , I want us to get it right , but I'm not holding my breath . We are now an established conference side , no better than that .

Compare their strikers to ours

Quoted from DocTower

All very interesting , aren't they owned by the fans now ?
They have got a new manager now , Nuneaton was it ?  
Town is my priority , I want us to get it right , but I'm not holding my breath . We are now an established conference side , no better than that .

Spot on, had a business meeting the other day and one of the attendees was a Sheffield Wednesday fan, and when the talk got round to football I said I was a Grimsby Town fan and the question I was asked was "where are they now, what league are they in" he had no idea or how we were even doing.

Quoted from chaos33

Compare their strikers to ours

Ross Hannah 136 goals in 231 games, 1 in 2
Lennell John-Lewis 27 goals in 218 games, 1 in 10 (did spend almost his all of his 83 games for Bury on the wing in an extremely poor team)
Jon-Paul Pittman 48 goals in games 201, 1 in 4
Rhys Oates 4 goals in 20 games, 1 in 5
Overall: 215 goals in 670. Or 1 in 3 on average (32 goals every 100 games)


Connor Jennings  67 goals in 167 games, 1 every 2.5 games (widely not wanted back here after his spell with us)
Lewis Moult 27 in 103 games, 1 in 4
Andy Bishop  121 goals in 411 league games, 1 in 3 (although only 28 in his last 150 games, 1 in 5)
Wes York 15 goals in 105 games, 1 in 6.5 games
Nick Rushton 3 goals in 17 games, 1 in 5
Overall: 233 goals in 803. 1 in 3 on average (29 goals every 100 games)

On that Grimsby are slightly better.

i thought we had Dartford next ?

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

i thought we had Dartford next ?

We have, but if you read the OP it is about comparing clubs of a similar size and geographic standing.

Quoted from biggles9999

Ross Hannah 136 goals in 231 games, 1 in 2
Lennell John-Lewis 27 goals in 218 games, 1 in 10 (did spend almost his all of his 83 games for Bury on the wing in an extremely poor team)
Jon-Paul Pittman 48 goals in games 201, 1 in 4
Rhys Oates 4 goals in 20 games, 1 in 5
Overall: 215 goals in 670. Or 1 in 3 on average (32 goals every 100 games)


Connor Jennings  67 goals in 167 games, 1 every 2.5 games (widely not wanted back here after his spell with us)
Lewis Moult 27 in 103 games, 1 in 4
Andy Bishop  121 goals in 411 league games, 1 in 3 (although only 28 in his last 150 games, 1 in 5)
Wes York 15 goals in 105 games, 1 in 6.5 games
Nick Rushton 3 goals in 17 games, 1 in 5
Overall: 233 goals in 803. 1 in 3 on average (29 goals every 100 games)

On that Grimsby are slightly better.

And Holman?

Quoted from oldun

Out of interest, I have taken a look at how the 2 clubs gave fared since being relegated to the conference. Both clubs have similar  attendances averaging around 3-3500.
Population of Wrexham 2011 census 135,000
Population of N E Lincs 2011 census 159, 000

Wrexham FC turnover 2012/13. £2.3 million. Profit £250k
Town.             turnover 2012/13 £1.93 million. Loss £395k

Both have been close to promotion in recent years. Below is the full comparison:-

                               Wrexham                      Town
Year 1 Finish.            10th.                             11th
Year 2.                       11th.                             11th
Year 3.                  Lost in p/offs.                 Lost in p/offs
Year 4.                  Lost in p/offs.                 Lost in p/offs
Year 5.                  Lost in p/offs
Year 6.                       17th
Currently                     3rd.                             13th

Changed Manager
                         End year 3.                  End year 1
                         End year 6.                  Mid year 4 (was it really a change though?)

Shows how tough it can be to get out of this league

Well before the end. It was Jan/Feb.

Glad that someone has done this comparison. Some people on here think we should have a Rangers-like dominance of the division full of pub sides and part-timers. The reality is there are several clubs considerably richer than us, and several more of a comparable size. And none of them are walking the league either! Some of our supporters have delusions of grandeur.

Several clubs considerably richer than us and several more of a comparable size?

Not sure about this. FGR are 'richer' granted. Who else? Maybe Bristol Rovers? As for 'several more who are of comparable size.....who you thinking? Bristol Rovers again. Wrexham? That's it isn't it? Torquay at a push.

Quoted from chaos33

Several clubs considerably richer than us and several more of a comparable size?

Not sure about this. FGR are 'richer' granted. Who else? Maybe Bristol Rovers? As for 'several more who are of comparable size.....who you thinking? Bristol Rovers again. Wrexham? That's it isn't it? Torquay at a push.

I would have thought that a club that returned a profit as opposed to a loss with a higher turnover was richer than us. Also, a population of 85% of our own is a comparable size.

Right, so Wrexham you would deem as richer based on that. For argument's sake, let's say that they are. That's one. Did Forest Green make a profit or loss last year? We are looking for "several clubs who are considerably richer" than us......

As for "bigger" - well there are a multitude of ways to measure that, but let's say it's a mixture of stature, past achievements, fanbase, population size, stadium size etc... who have we got? Bristol Rovers. Wrexham maybe. As I said.

Rob said "plus several more of comparable size". I mentioned Bristol Rovers, Wrexham and possibly Torquay at an absolute push (see above criteria). I've got about 3 red crosses for making these points, but I'm not seeing any counter argument really.

The wider point of the thread is about ambition I think. There's too much extremity in the analysis of our curent situation for me, and Rob is at one of the far ends, with Bruce Springsteen at the other. There's just not much merit to either stance IMO. It's just not reality is it. The statement that there are "several clubs who are richer than us and several more of comparable size" just doesn't hold water.

What's been said, and I agree with the sentiment, is that we don't think big/bold enough. I said it the other day, but, to me, you can't cut, quibble, gamble, hedge, economise, hope, lump and fudge your way to promotion. Not automatic promotion anyway. We've won 3 out of 7 home games and are 10 points off the top team (a club no richer or bigger than us in truth). You could argue that doing it this way has got us into the play offs for the last two seasons, but here we are again. Trying to learn the same old lessons, over and over, and enthusiasm and crowds dwindling. Rob, and people who think like this, are ducking the confrontation with the truth for me, and it's a major force in holding us back.

Quoted from chaos33

Right, so Wrexham you would deem as richer based on that. Let's say that they are. That's one. Did Forest Green make a profit or loss last year? We are looking for "several clubs who are considerably richer" than us......

As for "bigger" - well there are a multitude of ways to measure that, but let's say it's a mixture of stature, past achievements, fanbase, population size, stadium size etc... who have we got? Bristol Rovers. Wrexham maybe. As I said.

Rob said "plus several more of comparable size". I mentioned Bristol Rovers, Wrexham and possibly Torquay at an absolute push (see above criteria). I've got about 3 red crosses for making these points, but I'm not seeing any counter argument really.

The wider point of the thread is about ambition I think. There's too mug extremity in the analysis of our curent situation for me, and Rob is at one of the far ends, with Bruce Springsteen at the other. There's just not much merit to either stance IMO. It's just not reality is it. The statement that there are "several clubs who are richer than us and several more of comparable size" just doesn't hold water.

What's been said, and I agree with the sentiment, is that we don't think big/bold enough. I said it the other day, but, to me, you can't cut, quibble, gamble, hedge, economise, hope, lump and fudge your way to promotion. Not automatic promotion anyway. We're ten points off the top and we've won 3 out of 7 home games and are 10 points off the top (a club no richer or bigger than us in truth). You could argue that doing this has got us into the play offs for the last two seasons, but here we are again. Trying to learn the same old lessons. Over and over, and enthusiasm and crowds dwindling. Rob and people who think like this are ducking the confrontation with the truth for me, and it's a major force in holding us back.

This , nail and head spring to mind .
UTM

One tick from me chaos

What constitutes a big club is obviously subjective (and ultimately pointless) but I'd class GTFC as bigger than Wrexham and much bigger than Torquay.

Indeed