Are we bigger than

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I think you are way underestimating our standing in the game Rob.

We haven't been minnows in any of the League divisions we have been in, bar perhaps the Buckley Championship years when we couldn't get the gates we deserved. Of course by that time money was far more important than previously so we were then seen as a small club punching above our weight.

In my lifetime I never attended a league game in any division thinking we were small fish.When my father was watching the Mariners in the top flight of English football he never thought we were unworthy of being there.

When Blundell Park was standing the gates used to vary enormously - 3000 when we were in low divisions but three or four times that when we were doing better.

I always think of teams like Swansea, Hull, Blackpool, etc. etc who were very much the same as us - up and down the divisions with gates varying accordingly.

Coming to the present day, we should not be down here that's for sure and we should, should, be absolutely massive in these circumstances but we have never acted like we are; weve not sent fear through the Conference because we have not had the right leadership on or off the field and as Iv'e  said in other threads unless we reverse the decline pdq then all that history tradition and standing in the game will be a long lost memory.    

I'd say for a lot of the eighties and most of the nineties we were punching above out weight. A lot of other factors have changed since the 70s and 80s. Football is now all seater and a lot more expensive than it use to be to watch games. It is aimed at a middle class wallet, and a lot of Town's traditional floating support has been lost. We have to compete with TV as well a lot more now. Most kids have always "supported" one of the bigger sides, but now you can watch virtually every game live if you want whereas in years gone by you'd have radio commentary if you were lucky. We'll never get 5 figure crowds again even if we had the capacity to do so (the last time we had an average of 5 figures was 1980-1981).

Quoted from GrimRob

I'd say for a lot of the eighties and most of the nineties we were punching above out weight. A lot of other factors have changed since the 70s and 80s. Football is now all seater and a lot more expensive than it use to be to watch games. It is aimed at a middle class wallet, and a lot of Town's traditional floating support has been lost. We have to compete with TV as well a lot more now. Most kids have always "supported" one of the bigger sides, but now you can watch virtually every game live if you want whereas in years gone by you'd have radio commentary if you were lucky. We'll never get 5 figure crowds again even if we had the capacity to do so (the last time we had an average of 5 figures was 1980-1981).

What your saying is reasonable enough, but in your original post you said in the last 40 years we had spent seasons in divisions punching above our weight.

I have seen first hand all those 40 years and I maintain that for the majority of that time we were not punching above our weight in the slightest - we were just being what we are - a famous club woven into the fabric of English football.

I do agree that over the last 10- 15 years things have changed greatly. Where I probably disagree with you is that I cannot see why with the right level of investment, together with a new stadium and a following wind why we couldn't be the next, say, Swansea?

I would have a bet now, that every Swans fan watching them in the basement division in front of 3000-4000 fans never dreamt in their wildest dreams that they would make the journey to the Premier League.

Even a die hard like me knows we will never reach the Premier League, but surely League 1 and possibly the Championship cannot be out of reach for ever can it? Christ on a bike even Scunthorpe and Yeovil and Bournemouth have made it in recent seasons.

Having said all that and the people reading it have stopped laughing (!) it would take a monumental turn around to even start the road back - new owners, total backing of the Council and a complete change of attitude from possible fans as well as a long term plan.

BUT - how did Swansea go from basement division to Premier League with x5 more fans??    

Regarding Swansea, not exactly a perfect comparison as the surrounding area (quite widespread) has a population of almost 700,000:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swansea_Bay_City_Region

No other major teams in this region (Neath, Port Talbot or Carmarthen attract hardly any fans, for example!), so their catchment area is much greater than ours as we're closely bordered by Lincoln and Scunthorpe.

Regardless of that, Swansea are obviously a very well-run club and, more than anything, they had a very willing council built an excellent new stadium right in the middle of the city. That's one pretty obvious difference from the off, regardless of any ownership issues!

Are Kidderminster punching above their weight or we punching below ours?

[url]http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/OPPOSITION-VIEW-Kidderminster-t-match-big/story-22950431-detail/story.html[/url]

I think we will punch above our weight again. My whole point is that the good years and the bad years roughly average out in a lifetime and our "par" is probably lower L1/upper L2. I agree we could make the Championship again but I don't think we'll ever average over 10,000 a season again. We haven't regularly averaged that since the 1950s.

Our average attendances do make interesting reading. It's amazing how fickle fans have been over the years.

http://www.thefishy.co.uk/story.php?id=8382729

If somehow we got in the Premier League that's the only way we could average 10,000 - plus of course we need a ground that holds that many!

Agree with Rob on the numbers front and our long-term expected level should be League 1, anything above is a bonus, anything below is disappointing.

We are undoubtedly punching below our weight, and for the longest spell EVER.

I'd echo what Rob and KM have sid above.

As my moniker suggests I turned 10 in 1981 so I feel the until 2004ish you could claim we were one of the most successful clubs punching above our weight year after year.

It's partly what makes the current situation so difficult to judge. Most fans feel the club is under a competent manager in a league that is the hardest to get promoted from (2 out of 24). On the other hand, the board feel we are a L1 club which makes 5 yrs at this level difficult to justify?