Ross Hannah

What does he actually offer? A lot of people say he's our natural goal scorer, on what evidence? A handful of sidefoot finishes and some penalties?
For me he brings very little to the table, lacks strength, intelligence, pace and probably the biggest one for me is his aggression of which he has very little of, i'm not talking squaring up to oppos or kicking lumps out of people but just running hard and having the desire to get there before the defender.

I couldn't agree more, offered nothing yesterday. People keep banging on about starting Ross, why? He's always offside, showed no composure at all yesterday and fluffed his lines twice.

After the game a bloke in the bar offered a suggestion which I laughed off at first but actually the more I thought about it the more it made sense... Try (if we can) to bring in 2 or even 3 loan strikers and then loan Hannah out for a month or 2. Let him get some games, hopefully bag a few goals and return an improved player. Our only problem will be who we can bring in...

Hannah was always at his best with Neilson behind him though, in that respect Ross has been unlucky to not get a decent run in recent weeks while Neilson was on fire. Yesterday due to extraordinary striker injury misfortune he got a chance but apparently Scott had a forgettable game.

I do understand partnerships on the pitch are vital and i agree that ross has probably played his best football for us with scott up his bottom but that has only been on a handful of occasions.
This doesn't change the sort of player he is for the majority of the time and i don't quite understand why people seem to tolerate his lacklustre performances which there are genuinely more of.
  

Quoted from Bignic69

I do understand partnerships on the pitch are vital and i agree that ross has probably played his best football for us with scott up his bottom but that has only been on a handful of occasions.
This doesn't change the sort of player he is for the majority of the time and i don't quite understand why people seem to tolerate his lacklustre performances which there are genuinely more of.
  

Did he not have Neilson behind him for most of last season as well? He was no better than any of the forwards we let go at the end of the season today.

It is very unfair to say that he doesn't put the effort in and his misses yesterday could, quite conceivably be down to lack of match practice. Where I think he is sadly lacking is in his awareness of things around him-hence his repeated off-sides.
As for side footed goals I'd have settled for them coming off his backside yesterday!

I meant he has only performed well with neilson a few times.
It doesnt read right does it  

Quoted from barralad

It is very unfair to say that he doesn't put the effort in and his misses yesterday could, quite conceivably be down to lack of match practice. Where I think he is sadly lacking is in his awareness of things around him-hence his repeated off-sides.
As for side footed goals I'd have settled for them coming off his backside yesterday!

his effort is half arsed, he never runs hard, doesn't battle well and doesn't work hard enough for space which means he's marked easily or he strays offside.
As said previously, i don't understand why people tolerate it from Ross Hannah? They brush it off as he's not match fit or Scott Neilson isn't playing well so thats why Ross isn't? WTF?

We could loan Ross out to a lower league club to get some confidence ,

Somewhere like Boston,

Oh just a minute, they have got 2 strikers scoring goals,

He will never get a game there either.

I've always called for Hannah to start but he was absolutely dreadful. I still believe a lot of it is that Hurst had drained his confidence over the past year.

Quoted from barralad

It is very unfair to say that he doesn't put the effort in and his misses yesterday could, quite conceivably be down to lack of match practice. Where I think he is sadly lacking is in his awareness of things around him-hence his repeated off-sides.
As for side footed goals I'd have settled for them coming off his backside yesterday!

I don't think it is. He doesn't put himself about, he doesn't challenge the defenders on the ground or in the air. Frankly it's as though he isn't even on the pitch at times.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I've always called for Hannah to start but he was absolutely dreadful. I still believe a lot of it is that Hurst had drained his confidence over the past year.

A striker plays with confidence when he is scoring goals,

To score goals however he needs 3 things,

1. The confidence of  his manager,

2. Knowing he will play every week,

3. Not looking over his shoulder to see if he is going to be subbed.

He never  has had a really long run in the side since he has signed,

Whether we have that 20 goal a season striker in him is still debatable imo.

I agree with you Pete, just like with countless strikers before. Last season alone Hurst destroyed Cook & Southwell with his shocking man management of his forwards. Surprise surprise they're both having great seasons.

Ross , even in his earlier career with Belper was always getting caught off side . My ex work colleagues son played with him and was asking hos he was getting on . So its part of Rosses game that will never be removed ,
Quick through balls seem IMO to be the only way you accommodate his style . Being sat on the bench for bit parts isn't . Also the managers tactics haven't helped with the emphasis of your front line being Lewis .

Quoted from pontoonlew

I agree with you Pete, just like with countless strikers before. Last season alone Hurst destroyed Cook & Southwell with his shocking man management of his forwards. Surprise surprise they're both having great seasons.

You should be a politician fella!!!!

Cook is playing at probably his level. Southwell isn't playing in the Conference.

Who are the others in the countless list?

As a pro footballer Hannah should be able to adopt the attitude of "I'll show him"-yesterday he did nothing of note to persuade the manager that he is worth a revision of the line up

Quoted from barralad

You should be a politician fella!!!!

Cook is playing at probably his level. Southwell isn't playing in the Conference.

Who are the others in the countless list?

As a pro footballer Hannah should be able to adopt the attitude of "I'll show him"-yesterday he did nothing of note to persuade the manager that he is worth a revision of the line up

Like Pontoonlew said , Hursts man management appears to leave alot to be desired .
These strikers who you mentioned never really got an extended run , one bad game and you didn't see them for weeks . Then when they did get a chance everyone was expecting a Messi like performace ..
Picking his favorites whatever is going to be his downfall .

Quoted from pontoonlew

I agree with you Pete, just like with countless strikers before. Last season alone Hurst destroyed Cook & Southwell with his shocking man management of his forwards. Surprise surprise they're both having great seasons.

Would be more of a statement if they weren't playing part time football at a lower level.

How can Cook be at 'about his level' in 2 out of 3 Conference seasons he scored goals? It was only the last season where he got barely a sniff and publicaly slated by the manager that he didn't score goals.

Hurst did it with Southwell, he deeply frustrated Hearn. Further down the pitch he's already done in to Winfarrah this season. I'm sure if you gave me an hour or so there would be a lot more players I could name who at some point have suffered from Hursts dreadful man management.

Quoted from pontoonlew

How can Cook be at 'about his level' in 2 out of 3 Conference seasons he scored goals? It was only the last season where he got barely a sniff and publicaly slated by the manager that he didn't score goals.

Hurst did it with Southwell, he deeply frustrated Hearn. Further down the pitch he's already done in to Winfarrah this season. I'm sure if you gave me an hour or so there would be a lot more players I could name who at some point have suffered from Hursts dreadful man management.

What did he do with Southwell exactly? Give him some chances to grab his place and see him not take them? And what did he do to frustrate Hearn? Genuinely you've lost me on that one. Winfarrah I agree deserved to keep his place after his first game.

Cook did fairly well in his first season with us but I was still never convinced by him really. His second season he was very poor and looked grossly out of shape. When his chances came he didn't take them. But I do agree you shouldn't slate a player publicly, that is for the dressing room.

Quoted from mariner91

What did he do with Southwell exactly? Give him some chances to grab his place and see him not take them? And what did he do to frustrate Hearn? Genuinely you've lost me on that one. Winfarrah I agree deserved to keep his place after his first game.

How many Conference games did Southwell start? He started 3 cup games and scored 5 goals including 1 from the bench. I know he's not the same type of player as LJL but his strike rate was better than any other at the club.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

How many Conference games did Southwell start? He started 3 cup games and scored 5 goals including 1 from the bench. I know he's not the same type of player as LJL but his strike rate was better than any other at the club.

I'm sure, if I had the time or inclination, that I could trawl this message board and find countless posts saying he wasn't good enough and very few saying he was. There seems to be a strange habit at the minute of looking back on ineffective strikers with rose tinted glasses.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

How many Conference games did Southwell start? He started 3 cup games and scored 5 goals including 1 from the bench. I know he's not the same type of player as LJL but his strike rate was better than any other at the club.

And those three goals were all against Coalville, they're three leagues below us ffs, I reckon I could score 3 past them.

Quoted from mariner91

I'm sure, if I had the time or inclination, that I could trawl this message board and find countless posts saying he wasn't good enough and very few saying he was. There seems to be a strange habit at the minute of looking back on ineffective strikers with rose tinted glasses.

Think thst this shows the frustration of all the fans seeing what we had and ehat we have now . No progression as we were promised . Players come and go we are here for life , we see different things to what thd manager sees . Unfortunately most fans can see where it's going wrong but the most important man can't .  To even have a contract as a professional footballer to many would be a dream come true . To be a professional footballer you must have had the skill and ability to be awarded one in the first place . It's the managers job to enhance the abilty and mentality of the player whatever division they are in . Some do it better than others ,  what camp are we in ?

I don't know how anyone can question the ability of the self-titled Goal Machine.

Quoted from DocTower

Think thst this shows the frustration of all the fans seeing what we had and ehat we have now . No progression as we were promised . Players come and go we are here for life , we see different things to what thd manager sees . Unfortunately most fans can see where it's going wrong but the most important man can't .  To even have a contract as a professional footballer to many would be a dream come true . To be a professional footballer you must have had the skill and ability to be awarded one in the first place . It's the managers job to enhance the abilty and mentality of the player whatever division they are in . Some do it better than others ,  what camp are we in ?

I think Pittman is an improvement on anything we've had since Hearn in his prime but predictably is injured.

Quoted from mariner91

I'm sure, if I had the time or inclination, that I could trawl this message board and find countless posts saying he wasn't good enough and very few saying he was. There seems to be a strange habit at the minute of looking back on ineffective strikers with rose tinted glasses.

Being an ineffective striker never stopped Hurst picking LJL.

Quoted from DocTower

Think thst this shows the frustration of all the fans seeing what we had and ehat we have now . No progression as we were promised . Players come and go we are here for life , we see different things to what thd manager sees . Unfortunately most fans can see where it's going wrong but the most important man can't . To even have a contract as a professional footballer to many would be a dream come true . To be a professional footballer you must have had the skill and ability to be awarded one in the first place . It's the managers job to enhance the abilty and mentality of the player whatever division they are in . Some do it better than others ,  what camp are we in ?

Therein lies the real problem. Just reading this board there are countless opinions as to what is going wrong which vary depending on the latest result.As far as I know none of us are professionals. I wouldn't know where to start in installing a central heating system but I'm safe in the knowledge that there are people out there who can so I don't have to try. In my defence of him I've second guessed what Hurst was thinking tactically but in reality have no idea. It's not a problem really as this is just a message board that people use to let off steam but for me the problem comes when we do actually think we know the job!  

I just think Hurst coaches good stuff out of the players. We have signed some good players on paper who seem to do well for a few weeks after they arrive then just seem to get worse and worse.

Quoted from mariner91

I'm sure, if I had the time or inclination, that I could trawl this message board and find countless posts saying he wasn't good enough and very few saying he was. There seems to be a strange habit at the minute of looking back on ineffective strikers with rose tinted glasses.

Nostalgia i.e. the pain of looking back (It's from the Greek) Bit like those who want this country to return to what it was like in the 50s

Quoted from mariner91

I'm sure, if I had the time or inclination, that I could trawl this message board and find countless posts saying he wasn't good enough and very few saying he was. There seems to be a strange habit at the minute of looking back on ineffective strikers with rose tinted glasses.

So you would say that this MB should pick the team?

Quoted from barralad

Therein lies the real problem. Just reading this board there are countless opinions as to what is going wrong which vary depending on the latest result.As far as I know none of us are professionals. I wouldn't know where to start in installing a central heating system but I'm safe in the knowledge that there are people out there who can so I don't have to try. In my defence of him I've second guessed what Hurst was thinking tactically but in reality have no idea. It's not a problem really as this is just a message board that people use to let off steam but for me the problem comes when we do actually think we know the job!  

I don't know how to install central heating either.  But if I am paying good money for someone who can, surely I can critisize if they get it wrong.  If I've paid for a good boiler and the right size radiators for each room, I expect the right radiators to be in the right room and the boiler to make them function correctly.

Quoted from mariner91

And those three goals were all against Coalville, they're three leagues below us ffs, I reckon I could score 3 past them.

All he can (could) do is score in the games he's picked in.

And I guess you are currently banging in the goals in the Northern Premier League. Could you do a job at our level, because we have a striker crisis.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Being an ineffective striker never stopped Hurst picking LJL.

Great spot. A Boston supporting friend reckons that Southwell is better than Miller was at this stage of last season. Also point out that we wanted Bogle who I believe plays at the same level as Dayle.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So you would say that this MB should pick the team?

No. My point was, there were no claims at the time that Southwell was not getting picked when he was here, they seem to have just surfaced this week! It's bizarre.

Quoted from Civvy at last

I don't know how to install central heating either.  But if I am paying good money for someone who can, surely I can critisize if they get it wrong.  If I've paid for a good boiler and the right size radiators for each room, I expect the right radiators to be in the right room and the boiler to make them function correctly.

Tut tut Civvy. I'm talking (as you well know) about a mythical transfer of skills.... Just trying to fathom why people think they can be a football manager but, like me wouldn't entertain telling a plumber how to put in a CH system...

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So you would say that this MB should pick the team?

This MB thinks it should pick the team....

Quoted from barralad

This MB thinks it should pick the team....

What a ridiculous post. This MB just wants someone competent to bring the best out of this supposedly better-than-before squad of players. I don't believe Hannah was any better than Southwell last season, I don't believe Shop is ever going to score the volume of goals that he should and the only reason Pittman is here is because of underlying injuries.

Pittman is a good player but injury prone and imo was a gamble and due to lack of striking targets went for the easy solution.  As a manager surely you have to look at players strengths and weaknesses.   Hannah likes to play of the defenders shoulders he thrives on through balls something which he doesn't get very often.  Im sure he's capable at holding the ball up and bringing others into play, yes he needs to what his offside but I would tell him to drop five yards before starting his run.   We have some very good players but the lincoln game has taken the stuffin out of yhem.  We still have issues performing at home why?  Surely you want to play your ar5e off not to let the fans become negative.  Doigs assistant role seems to be just to help with training.  

I just dont know what to say except vs Halifax and only having 1 fit striker it has to be 4-5-1.

Quoted from mariner91

What did he do with Southwell exactly? Give him some chances to grab his place and see him not take them? And what did he do to frustrate Hearn? Genuinely you've lost me on that one. Winfarrah I agree deserved to keep his place after his first game.

Cook did fairly well in his first season with us but I was still never convinced by him really. His second season he was very poor and looked grossly out of shape. When his chances came he didn't take them. But I do agree you shouldn't slate a player publicly, that is for the dressing room.

Hearn said himself he was frustrated to be sat on the bench when he felt fit.

Cook had chances, what 10 mins now and then? Come off it.

Quoted from mariner91

I think Pittman is an improvement on anything we've had since Hearn in his prime but predictably is injured.

Injured or not, we will soon have any goalscoring nonsense knocked out of him. We can't have any of that sort of distraction from a Town forward. Their job is to run and run and run until they run out of ideas.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

What a ridiculous post. This MB just wants someone competent to bring the best out of this supposedly better-than-before squad of players. I don't believe Hannah was any better than Southwell last season, I don't believe Shop is ever going to score the volume of goals that he should and the only reason Pittman is here is because of underlying injuries.

Says the poster who starts a thread with A fact for getyourfactsright and then proceeds to "treat" us to another of his bouts of written misery based entirely on his opinion-without a fact in sight.....
When I require your views on my posts I'll P.M. you. This MB is full of "Teams For...X game threads on which people put forward their teams. If you are going to have a go at me then I suspect there will be far better targets than an off the cuff one liner.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Hearn said himself he was frustrated to be sat on the bench when he felt fit.

Fair enough, genuinely missed that.

Quoted from mariner91

No. My point was, there were no claims at the time that Southwell was not getting picked when he was here, they seem to have just surfaced this week! It's bizarre.

Not true. There were people (me inc) who were questioning why Southwell wasn't getting picked when he was the only player knocking in the goals (regardless of the opposition).  Granted I don't think anyone was saying he was the answer to all our prayers, but there were folk saying he was a better option than the usual suspects.

Quoted from barralad

Says the poster who starts a thread with A fact for getyourfactsright and then proceeds to "treat" us to another of his bouts of written misery based entirely on his opinion-without a fact in sight.....
When I require your views on my posts I'll P.M. you. This MB is full of "Teams For...X game threads on which people put forward their teams. If you are going to have a go at me then I suspect there will be far better targets than an off the cuff one liner.

Well get ready for plenty of my views on your opinions because that is what a forum/message board is about. Or am I to believe (with your sanctimonious attitude) that it should only be available for those who wish to toe the party line.

I'm fed up of listening to/reading why we should continue to tolerate 10 years of failure and I see no sign from our current manager that this will change any time soon. Convince me otherwise!

Quoted from mariner91

No. My point was, there were no claims at the time that Southwell was not getting picked when he was here, they seem to have just surfaced this week! It's bizarre.

And are you banging in the goals at a decent non-legue standard like you suggested you could?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

And are you banging in the goals at a decent non-legue standard like you suggested you could?

I think it's fairly evident I was being facetious. But the point remains, he scored more than half of his goals you claimed he was "banging in" against a team roughly 70 places below us in the football pyramid. Take away those goals and he scored 2 against the opposition we'd be facing on a regular basis.

Quoted from mariner91

What did he do with Southwell exactly? Give him some chances to grab his place and see him not take them? And what did he do to frustrate Hearn? Genuinely you've lost me on that one. Winfarrah I agree deserved to keep his place after his first game.

Cook did fairly well in his first season with us but I was still never convinced by him really. His second season he was very poor and looked grossly out of shape. When his chances came he didn't take them. But I do agree you shouldn't slate a player publicly, that is for the dressing room.

Think Southwell could possibly have had a bit more game time than he did...he didn't feature that often last season, always came on as a sub, usually just for the final few minutes (except maybe in the Trophy but didn't he bag a hat trick there?) so all I can read in to that was that Hurst didn't value his efforts or think him worthy of a place in the side. The same as happened with Cook too last season

"Point is that we are without Hearn, Hannah is going through a lean spell, Southwell isn't good enough, Cook is low on confidence and Shop isn't a natural goalscorer." Direct quote from The Old Codger from January. Precisely what I mean by people looking back on the strikers who have left with rose tinted glasses. This was after the game against Maidenhead which he started and obviously didn't impress or take his chance (against lower league opposition as well). Equally I can find very few posts suggesting he should be regularly starting. Admittedly quite a few saying he wasn't as bad as some posters said (which I agree with, he wasn't  terrible and at least put himself about a bit) but it is stretching the truth somewhat to suggest there were quite a few suggesting he could be the answer to our striking problems.

I'd go as far as saying that neither Cook or Southwell are bad players. But they are not the required standard to get a team promoted out of this league which is ultimately what we should be aiming for. And like a lot of strikers throughout the game, sometimes they find their level and bang goals in for fun at that level but the goals dry up quickly by just going up one division. Darryl Clare being a case in point.

Quoted from mariner91

"Point is that we are without Hearn, Hannah is going through a lean spell, Southwell isn't good enough, Cook is low on confidence and Shop isn't a natural goalscorer." Direct quote from The Old Codger from January. Precisely what I mean by people looking back on the strikers who have left with rose tinted glasses. This was after the game against Maidenhead which he started and obviously didn't impress or take his chance (against lower league opposition as well). Equally I can find very few posts suggesting he should be regularly starting. Admittedly quite a few saying he wasn't as bad as some posters said (which I agree with, he wasn't  terrible and at least put himself about a bit) but it is stretching the truth somewhat to suggest there were quite a few suggesting he could be the answer to our striking problems.

I stand by the fact that he wasn't good enough at that time but equally, he wasn't given opportunity to prove otherwise. I now believe he has the confidence that Hannah is sorely lacking.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I stand by the fact that he wasn't good enough at that time but equally, he wasn't given opportunity to prove otherwise. I now believe he has the confidence that Hannah is sorely lacking.

You could be right. Confidence does wonders for a striker. And should Hannah get some confidence again then he might start contributing. However, my worry is that he lacks the ability to create chances for himself and when the service isn't great he is going to be very limited in chances. So that leaves me wondering when will he ever get that confidence? With few chances and without the confidence to take them (i.e yesterday) then, if anything, the confidence gets worse.

If Hannah isn;t scoring then he offers nothing really
Seems a stupid thing to say about a striker but - despite the morons behind me in Ponny slagging Lenny off after 4 minutes, wanting him to be brought off when he was injured thus leaving us with 10 men, and just waiting for the poor sod to make a mistake of any kind, most 'fair minded' people can see that LJL offers a lot in terms of holding the ball up, and bringing other players into the play

Still, it's always 'super Rossy Hannah' whatever he does

Quoted from Stevie Saunders

If Hannah isn;t scoring then he offers nothing really
Seems a stupid thing to say about a striker but - despite the morons behind me in Ponny slagging Lenny off after 4 minutes, wanting him to be brought off when he was injured thus leaving us with 10 men, and just waiting for the poor sod to make a mistake of any kind, most 'fair minded' people can see that LJL offers a lot in terms of holding the ball up, and bringing other players into the play

Still, it's always 'super Rossy Hannah' whatever he does

Whoever plays out wide or as second striker must feel under tremendous pressure to score goals in this side, knowing that game after game the main striker is unlikely to do it.

I accept your point on main striker
We have a main striker who is generally a really good player but can't score a hatful or consistently and another (Hannah) who has 'offsideitis', wh gets knocked off the ball easily, and whose control is pretty poor

Quite a problem to be honest and we now have the best all round striker and possible 20+ goals (Pittman) out injured for weeks

Deflated and hacked off!!

Hannah would benefit with a run of games.  The rub being that he hasn't played more often because he was not considered good enough or suitable to work with his fellow striker.

In truth, Hannah has never replicated the number of goals he scored when first on loan to us. He also looks as if he was born offside.  

Overall, we are now struggling with our strikers when other parts of the team are not functioning as well as they should do.  

I have been watching football and supporting the Mariners for nearly 60 years now,

I played as a striker and feel I know what goes through ones head and what is needed to be good at your job,

So I will give you my opinion on our strikers past and present ( for what it is worth )

John Lewis will never be prolific we all know he works his socks off and I would have loved to play along side him,( at this level he should be scoring a few more goals to keep his place in the team )

Ross Hannah is a goal scorer but he needs the ball played in the right places for him to put them away, we do not seem to be able to do that very well,

Andy Cook was the type of player that needed the boss to put his arms around him and keep telling him how good he is, that did not happen, So he lacked confidence

Dayle Southwell showed promise and deserved a bit more game time to prove his worth, he never got it,( I would have given him another contract and then loaned him to Boston )

Some of you will say, why should a manager have to tell a player how good he is all the time,

Well it works at Chelsea , Lampard was told nearly every day he was the best midfield in the world,

He did not believe his boss but it gave him confidence to do things and score goals,

It is the managers job not only to get the team to play a certain way but to make sure that all the players understand their role and that they have the confidence to fulfil it,

Once all the players understand what their role in the formation is and they are happy and confident to do it, you just might get some consistency and some reward for every bodies hard work ie promotion.

I feel a lot of the above is not been done , so if the said manager finds himself out of a job he can only blame himself,

One final point if the manager keeps on about the other side, you start to believe they are better than they are and the fear factor creeps in,

Top managers might mention one or two things to look out for but they will tell their players never mind about them,

You go out and work hard and show them how good we are.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Well get ready for plenty of my views on your opinions because that is what a forum/message board is about. Or am I to believe (with your sanctimonious attitude) that it should only be available for those who wish to toe the party line.

I'm fed up of listening to/reading why we should continue to tolerate 10 years of failure and I see no sign from our current manager that this will change any time soon. Convince me otherwise!

What is this party line you keep going on about?  I say it as I see it and at least I can say I've seen it with my own eyes....

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Hannah would benefit with a run of games.  The rub being that he hasn't played more often because he was not considered good enough or suitable to work with his fellow striker.

In truth, Hannah has never replicated the number of goals he scored when first on loan to us. He also looks as if he was born offside.  

Overall, we are now struggling with our strikers when other parts of the team are not functioning as well as they should do.  

I do think Hannah would benefit from a run of games-the trouble is in a team that doesn't seem, in general, to create a lot of chances, the pressure is on from the start.
I don't really get this we don't provide him with the right sort of service-both chances on Saturday were put on a plate. I actually think he could form a decent partnership with LJL over time-time that he may well have if JPPs injury is a bad one.

Quoted from barralad

I do think Hannah would benefit from a run of games-the trouble is in a team that doesn't seem, in general, to create a lot of chances, the pressure is on from the start.
I don't really get this we don't provide him with the right sort of service-both chances on Saturday were put on a plate. I actually think he could form a decent partnership with LJL over time-time that he may well have if JPPs injury is a bad one.

I admire your optimism Barra but do not recall them playing all that great when paired together last season.

Quoted from barralad

I do think Hannah would benefit from a run of games-the trouble is in a team that doesn't seem, in general, to create a lot of chances, the pressure is on from the start.
I don't really get this we don't provide him with the right sort of service-both chances on Saturday were put on a plate. I actually think he could form a decent partnership with LJL over time-time that he may well have if JPPs injury is a bad one.

We attempt to play football but we just aren't , and never look dangerous . When we do get in the box our excitement level rarely get my juices flowing .  Regarding striker partnerships  as much as I would love John and Ross to be the Keegan Tochack of Grimsby  I really can't see it .

Quoted from barralad

I do think Hannah would benefit from a run of games-the trouble is in a team that doesn't seem, in general, to create a lot of chances, the pressure is on from the start.
I don't really get this we don't provide him with the right sort of service-both chances on Saturday were put on a plate. I actually think he could form a decent partnership with LJL over time-time that he may well have if JPPs injury is a bad one.

Didn't you watch them last season? The best Hannah played was with Cook against Huddersfield.

This thread is just flipping bizarre.

From reading the past few pages I've learnt that, apparently, when our strikers miss easy chances (cf. Hannah yesterday), it is because they haven't either:

a) been played enough
b) been encouraged enough

However, it is never:

c) their fault for missing easy chances

When they don't score enough goals or even look like scoring (cf. Cook and Southwell over the past couple of seasons), it is because they haven't either:

a) been played enough
b) been encouraged enough

but is never:

c) their fault for not playing well

If they move to a different club and begin to score some goals, it is apparently because they have either:

a) been played enough
b) been encouraged enough

but is nothing to do with the fact that they are:

c) playing at a lower level against teams filled mostly with amateurs instead of plenty with professionals

If you want to criticise the players for not being good enough, no problem, but let's not create some psychobabble bullshite that we're missing chances because Hurst hasn't given the players a cuddle and a pat on the head before the game.

Good points mate.

I'd also add that Hannah had a bloody long run of games in the team last year and played pretty much no different to how he played yesterday last year.

Quoted from Tom13

I'd also add that Hannah had a bloody long run of games in the team last year and played pretty much no different to how he played yesterday last year.

Add to that , our midfield didn't supply to ball , and as a striking partnership Ross and John don't compliment each other. Well thats my view for what it's worth . Just wish we had something positive to talk about .

Think I might go and book myself a holiday for the end of October , somewhere sunny .

Quoted from grimsby pete

I have been watching football and supporting the Mariners for nearly 60 years now,

I played as a striker and feel I know what goes through ones head and what is needed to be good at your job,

So I will give you my opinion on our strikers past and present ( for what it is worth )

John Lewis will never be prolific we all know he works his socks off and I would have loved to play along side him,( at this level he should be scoring a few more goals to keep his place in the team )

Ross Hannah is a goal scorer but he needs the ball played in the right places for him to put them away, we do not seem to be able to do that very well,

Andy Cook was the type of player that needed the boss to put his arms around him and keep telling him how good he is, that did not happen, So he lacked confidence

Dayle Southwell showed promise and deserved a bit more game time to prove his worth, he never got it,( I would have given him another contract and then loaned him to Boston )

Some of you will say, why should a manager have to tell a player how good he is all the time,

Well it works at Chelsea , Lampard was told nearly every day he was the best midfield in the world,

He did not believe his boss but it gave him confidence to do things and score goals,

It is the managers job not only to get the team to play a certain way but to make sure that all the players understand their role and that they have the confidence to fulfil it,

Once all the players understand what their role in the formation is and they are happy and confident to do it, you just might get some consistency and some reward for every bodies hard work ie promotion.

I feel a lot of the above is not been done , so if the said manager finds himself out of a job he can only blame himself,

One final point if the manager keeps on about the other side, you start to believe they are better than they are and the fear factor creeps in,

Top managers might mention one or two things to look out for but they will tell their players never mind about them,

You go out and work hard and show them how good we are.

This is one of the most sensible and reasoned summaries I have read for a long time .

The more I've seen of Hannah the more I fear we've been sold a pup. He's Slow, short, weak can't finish and lacks the guile and awareness to get into dangerous  onside positions.The player we had on loan is long gone. Increasingly he's reminding me of the type of player we've been plagued with over the last 10 years, players who are great on loan when they're trying to win a contract but woeful once they have one.

Let's not forget Hannah was involved in some very tough contract negotiations when he came here, I wouldn't be suprised if he was one of, if not the the top earners at the club.  Sadly for the money we've got tied up in Hannah we could have probably paid Gregory's salary at Halifax 3 or 4 times.

Quoted from Maringer

This thread is just flipping bizarre.

From reading the past few pages I've learnt that, apparently, when our strikers miss easy chances (cf. Hannah yesterday), it is because they haven't either:

a) been played enough
b) been encouraged enough

However, it is never:

c) their fault for missing easy chances

When they don't score enough goals or even look like scoring (cf. Cook and Southwell over the past couple of seasons), it is because they haven't either:

a) been played enough
b) been encouraged enough

but is never:

c) their fault for not playing well

If they move to a different club and begin to score some goals, it is apparently because they have either:

a) been played enough
b) been encouraged enough

but is nothing to do with the fact that they are:

c) playing at a lower level against teams filled mostly with amateurs instead of plenty with professionals

If you want to criticise the players for not being good enough, no problem, but let's not create some psychobabble bullshite that we're missing chances because Hurst hasn't given the players a cuddle and a pat on the head before the game.

Genius.....

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Didn't you watch them last season? The best Hannah played was with Cook against Huddersfield.

Yeah-Did you?

As I recall the whole team played out of their skins against Huddersfield. I'd have been very surprised if they hadn't got themselves pumped up for that game....

Quoted from barralad

Yeah-Did you?

As I recall the whole team played out of their skins against Huddersfield. I'd have been very surprised if they hadn't got themselves pumped up for that game....

Surprised with your selective memory that you can remember.....

looking at things deeper,  it is probably that the strikers we have bought in recent years have not been good enough or not right for GTFC.  (Hearn and Connell accepted). They are probably many different  reasons for this.

Hannah scored goals on loan, Cook and Soares (remember him) both scored goals for so called smaller teams and/or PT teams in this Division.  I know Soares was not a striker but he did score goals. We can also buy strikers that have a poor injury record, and get injured (the ex-Crawley striker and Pittman). Hearn is excepted because he at least scored goals for one season.  

When they get in our first team they stop scoring frequently.  Some fans will also say that once we have the strikers here, that we do not play the right ones in the team.

The manager(s) have made poor decisions in buying strikers, and/or better strikers did not want to come to Grimsby, or we have been very unlucky.  I cannot think money is an issue each time, only when FGR are involved.

You cannot be unlucky all the time.  So another factor could be that we don't develop and coach strikers.  Or that they fans get on the players back more than other clubs.  

Scunthorpe, and to a lesser extend Halifax, have shown excellent judgement in recent years in securing good strikers.  Scunny have made a good profit from unearthing talent on the cheap, getting goals from them and then selling them on.  We seem incapable of doing this (bar the signing on Hearn),

Whatever the reasons, the decisions made by the manager(s) have cost us dearly.    
  

Quoted from Maringer

This thread is just flipping bizarre.

From reading the past few pages I've learnt that, apparently, when our strikers miss easy chances (cf. Hannah yesterday), it is because they haven't either:

a) been played enough
b) been encouraged enough

However, it is never:

c) their fault for missing easy chances

When they don't score enough goals or even look like scoring (cf. Cook and Southwell over the past couple of seasons), it is because they haven't either:

a) been played enough
b) been encouraged enough

but is never:

c) their fault for not playing well

If they move to a different club and begin to score some goals, it is apparently because they have either:

a) been played enough
b) been encouraged enough

but is nothing to do with the fact that they are:

c) playing at a lower level against teams filled mostly with amateurs instead of plenty with professionals

If you want to criticise the players for not being good enough, no problem, but let's not create some psychobabble bullshite that we're missing chances because Hurst hasn't given the players a cuddle and a pat on the head before the game.

I bet you think NHS Psychologists are a waste of  time and money then,

Not all players are the same they respond to things very differently ,

I was just giving my view on one or two of them,

In Andy Cooks case I am sure I am correct in my views,

In your case and some others ,you might respond by a kick up the bottom or an ear bashing,

Not everybody is the same,

It's a managers job to know which way a player responds.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I bet you think NHS Psychologists are a waste of  time and money then,

Not all players are the same they respond to things very differently ,

I was just giving my view on one or two of them,

In Andy Cooks case I am sure I am correct in my views,

In your case and some others ,you might respond by a kick up the bottom or an ear bashing,

Not everybody is the same,

It's a managers job to know which way a player responds.

I don't think this has much to do with psychology, Pete.

When a striker misses an easy chance, it is his responsibility, especially when he is a professional player. On Saturday, Hannah was presented with two great chances which you would have to admit should have been buried. It is his job to take these chances, it is what we pay him for. If he's so weak-willed that he missed them because he's upset he hasn't been a first choice striker, then he obviously doesn't have the correct character. Note, I don't think this is why he missed them - I just think that he generally isn't good enough to be a top striker at this level of football. The first miss was down to poor technique - he was played through with acres of space and loads of time, but controlled the ball badly with his right foot, then faffed around instead of shooting with his right and finally blasted over after turning inside onto his left foot. That's three errors in one chance! The second was just a sloppy finish as he had plenty of the goal to aim at, even though the keeper did well to block it. Shouldn't have given him a chance. Hannah scored a lot of goals a couple of divisions below ours, but you have to say that, other than his initial loan spell with us, he has never really done that well at the club. I don't dislike him as a player - he certainly works his socks off for the team but, as he's not quick, not strong and not overly skilful, if he's not sticking the ball in the net when given the chances, he's not offering enough.

A lot of people in this thread seem to be looking for reasons to blame Hurst, hence these bizarre calls that the failings of the strikers are his fault. However, these claims are all based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever. There is no indication that he doesn't know when to use the carrot or stick with the players, just an imagined failing because they aren't scoring the goals.

Cook had an OK first season, but never really looked up to the task last year. His one decent performance (that I can remember) against Huddersfield could perhaps have earned him a start next game but he never looked fit to me and we don't know how hard he worked in training. He wasn't quick, wasn't strong and didn't look to be interested much of the time. We heard stories about homesickness but there is only so much the club can do about this. He's obviously much happier back living on the west coast and may be able to show his potential there, but a player failing to make an impact at the club has to be his own responsibility, especially when it generally seems to be a happy squad.

Quoted from Maringer

A lot of people in this thread seem to be looking for reasons to blame Hurst, hence these bizarre calls that the failings of the strikers are his fault. However, these claims are all based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever. There is no indication that he doesn't know when to use the carrot or stick with the players, just an imagined failing because they aren't scoring the goals.

This. Hurst has plenty to answer for as the manager, but it makes no sense to just blame everything on him. Firstly because it's not true, but secondly it creates the illusion that everything will be great if he leaves.

He's certainly got to bear some of the responsibility for their failings as he made the signings in the first place. However, it seems reasonable to think that the players themselves ought to bear most of the responsibility for fluffing sitters!

Oddly enough, when LJL misses sitters, it is deemed that he isn't good enough, but it seems that when Hannah or Southwell miss(ed) them or Cook didn't get near to being in the right place to get the chances in the first place, it is Hurst's fault!

Quoted from DocTower

Add to that , our midfield didn't supply to ball , and as a striking partnership Ross and John don't compliment each other. Well thats my view for what it's worth . Just wish we had something positive to talk about .

Think I might go and book myself a holiday for the end of October , somewhere sunny .

Not sure about that, he didn't get that much service granted but I can remember plenty of occasions in those boring, dull home games where Hannah had the right ball played to him only to be either offside, too weak/slow to run onto to the ball, had a poor first touch or quite simply just poorly finished it. One that particularly sticks in my mind was that home game against Southport when he just hit it straight against the keeper despite being in acres of space, for the supposed 'goal machine' that he is he definitely should be scoring those. As someone else said it's also very likely that he's our highest earner too, despite last season (when he only got 15, not enough for that kind of striker IMO), was his best season since leaving Matlock. He's never consistently scored goals other than at Matlock, at Halifax on loan in the Conference North and that initial loan spell.  

Quoted from Maringer

He's certainly got to bear some of the responsibility for their failings as he made the signings in the first place. However, it seems reasonable to think that the players themselves ought to bear most of the responsibility for fluffing sitters!

Oddly enough, when LJL misses sitters, it is deemed that he isn't good enough, but it seems that when Hannah or Southwell miss(ed) them or Cook didn't get near to being in the right place to get the chances in the first place, it is Hurst's fault!

I agree with you on some of your points,

BUT

My main point was that's it's a mangers job to get the players in the right frame of mind to do the best job possible,

If he does not do that and the players do not perform to their best in most games,

Then he has nobody to blame but himself if the players let him down and he gets the sack,

It might be unfair but that's life, as they say a manager is always one game away from the sack,

He has to make sure it's not the next game.

To be fair Hurst signed all of our current strikers and is responsible for their management and coaching. If they are not performing then it is to some extent his fault.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I agree with you on some of your points,

BUT

My main point was that's it's a mangers job to get the players in the right frame of mind to do the best job possible,

If he does not do that and the players do not perform to their best in most games,

Then he has nobody to blame but himself if the players let him down and he gets the sack,

It might be unfair but that's life, as they say a manager is always one game away from the sack,

He has to make sure it's not the next game.

There's getting them in the right frame of mind and then there's things outside of your control. For a self-proclaimed goalscorer, Hannah's attempts at two easy chances on Saturday were embarrassing, no matter how high (or low) his confidence is.

Quoted from mariner91

There's getting them in the right frame of mind and then there's things outside of your control. For a self-proclaimed goalscorer, Hannah's attempts at two easy chances on Saturday were embarrassing, no matter how high (or low) his confidence is.

I agree, if he gets the player in the right frame of mind and he is still crap,

Get rid.