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Sack Hurst

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LongEatonMariner
August 25, 2014, 4:36pm
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We can't score against ten men, rubbish! I'm tearing up my season ticket and not coming back until we replace that baboon with Alan Buckley!
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LongEatonMariner
August 25, 2014, 4:38pm
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Err ok, maybe I shouldn't post on here until we don't score for twenty minutes lol
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Madeleymariner
August 25, 2014, 4:41pm

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HaHa
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chaos33
August 25, 2014, 4:49pm
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Look there's no need. It's not funny. That point was made last game. Why not just delete it and we can all be positive and celebratory?


"You should do what you love while you can"
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Mariner Timsky
August 25, 2014, 5:18pm

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Not giving Connell a chance, , , Booo Hurst OUT, , , sack the board


Stand Up For The Mariners!!!!!
Stand Up For The Mariners!!!!!
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LongEatonMariner
August 25, 2014, 6:53pm
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Quoted from chaos33
Look there's no need. It's not funny. That point was made last game. Why not just delete it and we can all be positive and celebratory?


Oh, sorry

I shan't do it again

Get in theeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrre!!!!!
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MeanwoodMariner
August 25, 2014, 7:04pm

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Quoted from chaos33
Look there's no need. It's not funny. That point was made last game. Why not just delete it and we can all be positive and celebratory?


Seriously? We've had weeks of relentless bile and vitriol directed at PH, LJL, Clay etc, as well as at the "rose tinted brigade" on here. I think a little gentle ribbing of those who wanted Hurst out is not far out of line after those 2 wins is it?
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chaos33
August 25, 2014, 7:19pm
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We've done that already though haven't we - after Gateshead. It just causes quarrels and seems like gloating. We don't really need it do we. Seems a bit odd rushing to revive bitter old threads when we should all be celebrating. Just my view like.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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cmackenzie4
August 25, 2014, 7:21pm

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Quoted from chaos33
We've done that already though haven't we - after Gateshead. It just causes quarrels and seems like gloating. We don't really need it do we. Seems a bit odd rushing to revive bitter old threads when we should all be celebrating. Just my view like.


Totally agree mate.


Grimsby and proud!
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MeanwoodMariner
August 25, 2014, 7:31pm

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Quoted from chaos33
We've done that already though haven't we - after Gateshead. It just causes quarrels and seems like gloating. We don't really need it do we. Seems a bit odd rushing to revive bitter old threads when we should all be celebrating. Just my view like.


Perhaps, but I think that probably underestimates how fed up people were with so many threads saying the Hurst was clueless and the like. One fella here made a thread called "Gone!!" because he had had enough of the endless negativity. He was dismissed as spitting his dummy out but that seemed to miss the point that some people were so upset with reading the Fishy that they didn't want to come back here. I bet he wasn't alone, even if he was the only one to bother to tell everyone.

For what it's worth I don't think this gloating will go on much longer so I wouldn't worry.
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chaos33
August 25, 2014, 7:52pm
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Fair enough. Most fans are balanced and will be critical when we're underachieving and celebratory when we're firing. I suppose it is a bit of a plea for the reasonable, intelligent and long suffering; many of whom have been justifiably critical when it called for it and not negative, premature or obsessive. Those people will now enjoy discussing all of the positive aspects of our play now I'm sure. You're right though - there has been some overreaction to results both great and frustrating. I hope we can find some togetherness now.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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codcheeky
August 25, 2014, 8:05pm
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Quoted from chaos33
Look there's no need. It's not funny. That point was made last game. Why not just delete it and we can all be positive and celebratory?


The bile and relentless negativity from some on here who seem happy to try and destroy a young players like Clay`s confidence( a lot before they had even seen him play) are perhaps unhappy that they are starting to be proved shortsighted and wrong and should not be too disappointed when some of their quotes are coming back to haunt them.

Whatever they thought to achieve by trying to get the manager, who has just made 6 new signings and had 3 influential players suspended sacked after 3 games are living in a premier league hype world. To support the team is to get behind them through thick and thin, I do not doubt the same moaners will be out again after a couple of poor results, we have a good team for this level and are unbeaten, this could be a magical season with so many players already scoring and the strongest squad for along time, lets get behind the team and put all the negativity behind us.
UTM
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chaos33
August 25, 2014, 8:14pm
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Yep ok. Indisputable points, but would just prefer to do without the counterproductive and tedious quarrelling, 'I told you so's' and so on. Maybe I'll just shut up and skip those threads. The obsessive, negative moaners are an irritation, but I don't consider those discussions helpful, entertaining or informative whether we're winning/playing well or not.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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LongEatonMariner
August 25, 2014, 9:51pm
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Quoted from chaos33
Yep ok. Indisputable points, but would just prefer to do without the counterproductive and tedious quarrelling, 'I told you so's' and so on. Maybe I'll just shut up and skip those threads. The obsessive, negative moaners are an irritation, but I don't consider those discussions helpful, entertaining or informative whether we're winning/playing well or not.


Cricket just light hearted, didn't mean to upset you. Forgiven? X
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KingstonMariner
August 25, 2014, 10:00pm
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Quoted from codcheeky


The bile and relentless negativity from some on here who seem happy to try and destroy a young players like Clay`s confidence( a lot before they had even seen him play) are perhaps unhappy that they are starting to be proved shortsighted and wrong and should not be too disappointed when some of their quotes are coming back to haunt them.

Whatever they thought to achieve by trying to get the manager, who has just made 6 new signings and had 3 influential players suspended sacked after 3 games are living in a premier league hype world. To support the team is to get behind them through thick and thin, I do not doubt the same moaners will be out again after a couple of poor results, we have a good team for this level and are unbeaten, this could be a magical season with so many players already scoring and the strongest squad for along time, lets get behind the team and put all the negativity behind us.
UTM


Long Eaton's joke was fair enough, but your post is just ballcocks. How many times have people pointed out it wasn't based on a track record of 3 games.


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KingstonMariner
August 25, 2014, 10:01pm
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PS and I don't think anyone was trying to destroy anyone's confidence. Just because folk take a different view from you doesn't mean they are vile people.


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
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Marinerz93
August 25, 2014, 10:08pm

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The negative criticism that PH and the players received regardless if some believed it was justified or by some who believed it wasn't, that debate was read by PH, JF and the players.

The relentless pressing of the opposition and other criticisms have been addressed.  So regardless of what camp you were in at the time of the debate, you can not deny that it has had a profound effect on performances.  The players have stepped up and earned credibility.

Some of those negative comments were born out of pure frustration and watching boring football. Gloating will only fuel any slip ups and we'll see the same arguments, we are not out of this league yet!

You are only as good as your last game and we were bloody fantastic, lets focus on that.

  


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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chaos33
August 25, 2014, 10:16pm
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Absolutely spot on.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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poomehellt
August 25, 2014, 10:28pm
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Lets face it, 7-0 against a poor bottom of the table 10-man side just doesn't cut it. Nor does being unbeaten in 5. We only drew our first 3 matches FFS, despite injuries and suspentions.

We conceded at home against part-time Dover. SACK HURST NOW FENTY!!
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headingly_mariner
August 25, 2014, 11:44pm

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Quoted from Marinerz93
The negative criticism that PH and the players received regardless if some believed it was justified or by some who believed it wasn't, that debate was read by PH, JF and the players.

The relentless pressing of the opposition and other criticisms have been addressed.  So regardless of what camp you were in at the time of the debate, you can not deny that it has had a profound effect on performances.  The players have stepped up and earned credibility.

Some of those negative comments were born out of pure frustration and watching boring football. Gloating will only fuel any slip ups and we'll see the same arguments, we are not out of this league yet!

You are only as good as your last game and we were bloody fantastic, lets focus on that.

  


Are you trying to suggest that those ridiculous threads have in some way been responsible for our upturn in fortune?

I imagine having more attacking options fit was the reason for our goal flurry.
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Marinerz93
August 26, 2014, 12:25am

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Quoted from headingly_mariner


Are you trying to suggest that those ridiculous threads have in some way been responsible for our upturn in fortune?

I imagine having more attacking options fit was the reason for our goal flurry.


Upturn in pressing opposition rather than standing off, yes.  Goals partially, especially with LJL who had a point to prove and has done so.

Are you suggesting that without one or two attacking options that LJL wouldn't score and that we wouldn't play a more pressing game?


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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kamakazebear
August 26, 2014, 1:32am
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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner


Seriously? We've had weeks of relentless bile and vitriol directed at PH, LJL, Clay etc, as well as at the "rose tinted brigade" on here. I think a little gentle ribbing of those who wanted Hurst out is not far out of line after those 2 wins is it?


I don't know, I haven't posted anything about sack everyone and found it as irritating as you probably did, but I find these sort of posts just as irritating and pointless
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120797
August 26, 2014, 2:48am
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2 types of criticism for me....
CONSTRUCTIVE regards tactics, team selection etc... (this can sometimes be good !)
UNCONSTRUCTIVE regards sacking the manager (as proven today?), unfair treatment of players etc.

Question...
Has some CONSTRUCTIVE fan criticism led to Hurst adopting a different & better strategy ?...

Well who knows but let's just assume so, possibly. (things have certainly changed)

Don't really remember any "relentless pressing of the opposition" advice ?
Assuming Hurst has read the fishy, what advice has he been reading here ?
Feel free to quote...

Or let's just ASSUME and place it all under a "negative football" complaints umbrella.

Now what do we know here ?...
- Criticisms have been aired
- Performances have improved last 2 games

"cause" or unrelated "co-incidence" ?

Similar criticisms have been made in the past regarding "negative football" ?...
Last season ? Didn't improve things like now ?
Same story for Woods "negative football" ? "not closing down enough" ?
Plenty of advice aired there !  
How come nothing changed there and got even worse ?

I agree it starts with the players.
But guess so did Hurst post match Dover when he said the players needed some 'self reflection'.

Not trying to suggest fans opinions or CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions aren't sometimes quite helpful, useful or relevant, sure many are !
Fans can also help a great deal by being supportive too. (as seen today ! )
And who knows, perhaps a "kick up the ar5e" has indeed been dished out recently too, wouldn't suprise me !

But sorry for me...
It's manager and players in the dressing room who take ultimate credit for making any team improvements.
Not all us would-be football managers on a messageboard (including me too).

Anyway it's another SUPERBBBB great little step forward.
Best thing we can all do IMHO is continue to be as supportive of the manager, players and club as we possibly can be.
Let's remember we ALL want the very same thing !
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3610
August 26, 2014, 6:52am
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Quoted from 120797
2 types of criticism for me....
CONSTRUCTIVE regards tactics, team selection etc... (this can sometimes be good !)
UNCONSTRUCTIVE regards sacking the manager (as proven today?), unfair treatment of players etc.

Question...
Has some CONSTRUCTIVE fan criticism led to Hurst adopting a different & better strategy ?...


No I personally think hurst planned for this change a long time ago.

Others may disagree but I feel he has recruited really well and got players who are far more energetic allowing us to press higher. I couldn't imagine a midfield 3 of thanoj, Kerr and disley being able to press and harrass like clay, brown and McLaughlin did last weekend.

I just think the injuries and suspensions were the reason why this didn't happen from the off.
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headingly_mariner
August 26, 2014, 7:41am

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Quoted from Marinerz93


Upturn in pressing opposition rather than standing off, yes.  Goals partially, especially with LJL who had a point to prove and has done so.

Are you suggesting that without one or two attacking options that LJL wouldn't score and that we wouldn't play a more pressing game?


I just find that bewildering, I imagine PH was well aware that we needed to be more of an attacking threat after only scoring one goal in three games, he didn't need endless threads on the fishy to point that out for him. The majority of people on here wanted him sacked and LJL dropped, nobody on here can claim any credit for the upturn in form.

I'm suggesting that without those attacking options available those results would be extremely unlikely and i don't think it's a coincidence that the shop being partnered by Pittman and having neilson playing behind him has seen him hit the net, I don't think the fans slating him has made him score goals, he  was already playing well and had been unlucky against Dover.
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LongEatonMariner
August 26, 2014, 8:34am
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Quoted from 3610


No I personally think hurst planned for this change a long time ago.

Others may disagree but I feel he has recruited really well and got players who are far more energetic allowing us to press higher. I couldn't imagine a midfield 3 of thanoj, Kerr and disley being able to press and harrass like clay, brown and McLaughlin did last weekend.

I just think the injuries and suspensions were the reason why this didn't happen from the off.


I agree that this is how he wanted to set up this season, quite possibly the level of success in the last two games is beyond expectation, long may it continue!
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120797
August 26, 2014, 5:59pm
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Quoted from 3610


No I personally think hurst planned for this change a long time ago.

Others may disagree but I feel he has recruited really well and got players who are far more energetic allowing us to press higher. I couldn't imagine a midfield 3 of thanoj, Kerr and disley being able to press and harrass like clay, brown and McLaughlin did last weekend.

Yep see where you're coming from salford, wouldn't suprise me at all.
Have to say though I've never seen Paddy so fired up before, was like a man possessed.
Brilliant !
Quoted from 3610
I just think the injuries and suspensions were the reason why this didn't happen from the off.

Totally agree but also think the tactics were spot on too for playing an "open" looking team, same for Gateshead too.
Even from the first whistle (no cliche the truth) they were hunting them down, then trying to get in behind their defence.
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Marinerz93
August 26, 2014, 7:22pm

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Quoted from headingly_mariner


I just find that bewildering, I imagine PH was well aware that we needed to be more of an attacking threat after only scoring one goal in three games, he didn't need endless threads on the fishy to point that out for him. The majority of people on here wanted him sacked and LJL dropped, nobody on here can claim any credit for the upturn in form.

I'm suggesting that without those attacking options available those results would be extremely unlikely and i don't think it's a coincidence that the shop being partnered by Pittman and having neilson playing behind him has seen him hit the net, I don't think the fans slating him has made him score goals, he  was already playing well and had been unlucky against Dover.


Playing well yes, but when you miss a 3rd of an open goal from 6 yards it isn't unlucky, it's poor finishing.  LJL recent goals have come from further out and placed rather than clobbered / scuffed since people called for him to be dropped.  I agree the addition of attacking players has given him more room but he is playing as if he has something to prove and the criticism he recieved in my honest opinion has made him more focused.

The fishy is for varying opinions, that's why we have people who either agree or disagree.  I never saw anything that would indicate a majority wanted PH out, I must have missed that.

You are right in a sense that the only ones who can claim credit for the up turn is PH and the players however, they did get a kick up the rear end.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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120797
August 26, 2014, 8:26pm
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Quoted from Marinerz93
Playing well yes, but when you miss a 3rd of an open goal from 6 yards it isn't unlucky, it's poor finishing.  LJL recent goals have come from further out and placed rather than clobbered / scuffed since people called for him to be dropped.

Perhaps true but I find it ironic - had he been dropped (my MOM Dover BTW) he wouldn't have scored...

Gods honest truth at H/T heard someone say "Maybe we should have a go at LJL more often if he does that !"

Guess it was a joke/tongue in cheek comment but I find it a little worrying too.
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lew chaterleys lover
August 26, 2014, 9:10pm
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Quoted from 120797

Perhaps true but I find it ironic - had he been dropped (my MOM Dover BTW) he wouldn't have scored...

Gods honest truth at H/T heard someone say "Maybe we should have a go at LJL more often if he does that !"

Guess it was a joke/tongue in cheek comment but I find it a little worrying too.


I would get out more if I was you.
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120797
August 26, 2014, 9:14pm
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I would get out more if I was you.

Sense of humour failure you mean ?

Normally I would laugh too.
Just think the stick LJL has received recently hasn't been particularly fair given what he "brings to the team" whether scoring or not.
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headingly_mariner
August 26, 2014, 9:38pm

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Quoted from Marinerz93


Playing well yes, but when you miss a 3rd of an open goal from 6 yards it isn't unlucky, it's poor finishing.  LJL recent goals have come from further out and placed rather than clobbered / scuffed since people called for him to be dropped.  I agree the addition of attacking players has given him more room but he is playing as if he has something to prove and the criticism he recieved in my honest opinion has made him more focused.

The fishy is for varying opinions, that's why we have people who either agree or disagree.  I never saw anything that would indicate a majority wanted PH out, I must have missed that.

You are right in a sense that the only ones who can claim credit for the up turn is PH and the players however, they did get a kick up the rear end.


There was a poll on here with over 70% of those who voted voting for hurst to be sacked.
LJL had far more chances with the attacking players around him, he took some of those chances.

I just find it completely bizarre that you think the shite certain players and the manager got after 3 disappointing results had a positive affect, it was three games into the season, it was totally uncalled for and embarrassing.
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Marinerz93
August 27, 2014, 12:24am

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Quoted from headingly_mariner


There was a poll on here with over 70% of those who voted voting for hurst to be sacked.
LJL had far more chances with the attacking players around him, he took some of those chances.

I just find it completely bizarre that you think the shite certain players and the manager got after 3 disappointing results had a positive affect, it was three games into the season, it was totally uncalled for and embarrassing.


I didn't see the poll so I will accept what you say on that.

If you are not performing to the expected levels at work, the customers or managers will give you a hard time.  Town fans in this case being the customers of course.  It was obvious from PH's defence of LJL that they were both aware of the criticisms.  Yes LJL had more chances per game with more attacking players but my point still stands about how he is now hitting the ball with more focus.

Not all of those criticisms were justified agreed, but some were and it has fired up LJL.  The cupping of his ears a prime example of him answering his critics.  Other players have stepped up their game and this can be seen as them trying harder for their team mate, team spirit.

I can understand that you don't see it this way and that's fair enough.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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headingly_mariner
August 27, 2014, 10:32am

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Quoted from Marinerz93


I didn't see the poll so I will accept what you say on that.

If you are not performing to the expected levels at work, the customers or managers will give you a hard time.  Town fans in this case being the customers of course.  It was obvious from PH's defence of LJL that they were both aware of the criticisms.  Yes LJL had more chances per game with more attacking players but my point still stands about how he is now hitting the ball with more focus.

Not all of those criticisms were justified agreed, but some were and it has fired up LJL.  The cupping of his ears a prime example of him answering his critics.  Other players have stepped up their game and this can be seen as them trying harder for their team mate, team spirit.

I can understand that you don't see it this way and that's fair enough.


So maybe we should abuse our own players more often if it works that well. His lack of performance in the previous three games is a matter of opinion, he was quite a few peoples MOM in the Dover game and couldn't have really put more effort in. Granted he has clearly heard some of the criticism but I imagine we would have seen the same results from him with the changes to the team, even if it has had a positive impact it's a dangerous way to try and motivate people and is more likely to further crush confidence and add to the pressure to succeed.
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Marinerz93
August 27, 2014, 10:59am

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Quoted from headingly_mariner


So maybe we should abuse our own players more often if it works that well. His lack of performance in the previous three games is a matter of opinion, he was quite a few peoples MOM in the Dover game and couldn't have really put more effort in. Granted he has clearly heard some of the criticism but I imagine we would have seen the same results from him with the changes to the team, even if it has had a positive impact it's a dangerous way to try and motivate people and is more likely to further crush confidence and add to the pressure to succeed.


The criticism LJL got was for his finishing not his work rate.  It was people's frustration that he failed to score from 6 yards out in 3rd of an open goal and his lack of goals since Christmas last year that saw the criticism of him and that he should be dropped.  Yes he is getting more chances but he is placing them rather than snapping / scuffing shots.  I wouldn't say that those who wanted him out were trying to motivate him, LJL has motivated himself and answered his critics.

In previous years players have crumbled under pressure but so far the players have stepped up and the criticisms have almost disappeared.  The pressure to succeed now should be replaced with the killer instinct that teams will fear us now, we are the Pike in this little pond.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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Garth
August 27, 2014, 11:38am

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Quoted from Marinerz93


Playing well yes, but when you miss a 3rd of an open goal from 6 yards it isn't unlucky, it's poor finishing.  LJL recent goals have come from further out and placed rather than clobbered / scuffed since people called for him to be dropped.  I agree the addition of attacking players has given him more room but he is playing as if he has something to prove and the criticism he recieved in my honest opinion has made him more focused.

The fishy is for varying opinions, that's why we have people who either agree or disagree.  I never saw anything that would indicate a majority wanted PH out, I must have missed that.

You are right in a sense that the only ones who can claim credit for the up turn is PH and the players however, they did get a kick up the rear end.


Burnsey said The Fishy runs GTFC
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Trawler
August 27, 2014, 11:46am
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Quoted from Garth


Burnsey said The Fishy runs GTFC


That's why Getyourfactsright joined this board.

If you can't beat them. Join them.



"Pound for pound, and class for class, the best football team I have seen in England since the war. In the league they were in they played football nobody else could play. Everything was measured, planned and perfected and you could not wish to see more entertaining football." Bill Shankly, Manager GTFC 1951-54
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
August 27, 2014, 11:48am
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Quoted from Marinerz93


The criticism LJL got was for his finishing not his work rate.  It was people's frustration that he failed to score from 6 yards out in 3rd of an open goal and his lack of goals since Christmas last year that saw the criticism of him and that he should be dropped.  Yes he is getting more chances but he is placing them rather than snapping / scuffing shots.  I wouldn't say that those who wanted him out were trying to motivate him, LJL has motivated himself and answered his critics.



On Monday LJL had a bag full of chances and scored one and a half. He is never going to be a great goalscorer but that doesn't matter so much if other people are scoring. Previously he was virtually the only player to get any chances though. There is no doubt that having players with pace in the team has helped him enormously.

On the subject of the manager - there is a lot of criticism of critics for having a go after 2 or 3 games. A lot of those posts though make the point that the criticism was about last season and the way the first 3 games echoed the way the side played from last Christmas. Clearly in the 3 games players were missing and they make a great difference. There was also a lack of the luck in front of goal which any side needs. Equally clearly PH had tried to change the team's style through his signings but it wasn't until the Gateshead game that he really went for it with his team selection and tactics.

I wouldn't suggest that a manager or player takes too much direct notice of posts on a forum but the criticism last season was widespread and continued for 3 more games. It must have made some impact because we had Getyourfactsright coming on to jolly us into rousing support. So it seems very likely that conversations also took place in the club about the progress of the side and the entertainment value for fans paying to go BP. I think that is at the root of the change in philosophy of the manager and the team. Not a reaction to any specific post or poster, but a reaction to substantial and continuing dissatisfaction amongst supporters.

PH's biggest problem is that he is not a great communicator. He might be good in the confines of a dressing room but his interviews are drab and repetitive no matter how hard John Tondeur tries to draw him out. I'm sure there is a sense of humour in there somewhere but he is desperate to be very careful and cautious so that is presumably why he was happy to let Scott do all the PR. PH reminds me a lot of Dave Booth in that respect and look how well he did.


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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MeanwoodMariner
August 27, 2014, 12:10pm

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PH's biggest problem is that he is not a great communicator. He might be good in the confines of a dressing room but his interviews are drab and repetitive no matter how hard John Tondeur tries to draw him out. I'm sure there is a sense of humour in there somewhere but he is desperate to be very careful and cautious so that is presumably why he was happy to let Scott do all the PR. PH reminds me a lot of Dave Booth in that respect and look how well he did.


Many people have said this about Hurst so there must be something to it but I only hear a calm and measured man every time he speaks. Is it just the accent? I lived in Yorkshire for 10 years so got used to the accent and don't equate it with being dull. I would agree he doesn't give too much away but that's the same with almost every manager interview.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
August 27, 2014, 12:34pm
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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner


Many people have said this about Hurst so there must be something to it but I only hear a calm and measured man every time he speaks. Is it just the accent? I lived in Yorkshire for 10 years so got used to the accent and don't equate it with being dull. I would agree he doesn't give too much away but that's the same with almost every manager interview.


I was born about 5 miles from Meanwood and have lived in South Yorks so I know the accent very well. The old saying of "'ear all, see all and say nowt" could be written for him. It's not the accent, it's the way he speaks, the language he uses and above all his desire not to be caught out.

In his interview after the Alfreton game it would have been great to hear him enthuse a bit about the speed of passing, the running off the ball and with the ball, the finishing, the entertainment, getting the fans in ..........



“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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Maringer
August 27, 2014, 12:46pm
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On Monday LJL had a bag full of chances and scored one and a half. He is never going to be a great goalscorer but that doesn't matter so much if other people are scoring. Previously he was virtually the only player to get any chances though. There is no doubt that having players with pace in the team has helped him enormously.



LJL had a few good chances on Monday and scored a couple (sort-of scored the second one). However, he laid on 3 very good passes to set up other goals and had an important role in Clay's second as well. He directly had a hand in 6 of the 7 goals so I think we can forgive him a couple he didn't manage to tuck away - and the keeper saved at least one of his efforts that didn't go in! McLaughlin missed some better chances than LJL's on Monday, but it doesn't really matter who scores as long as we get the goals.

Earlier in the season (and for much of last season), I'd say that LJL was pretty much the only one of our attackers with any pace which often left him isolated. The addition of Pittman and Neilson has added extra strength, pace and skill to the team and those three must be a real handful for opposition defences. I'm sort of hoping that the return of Arnold will make things even more difficult for opposition defenders as well!
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Marinerz93
August 27, 2014, 1:05pm

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On Monday LJL had a bag full of chances and scored one and a half. He is never going to be a great goalscorer but that doesn't matter so much if other people are scoring. Previously he was virtually the only player to get any chances though. There is no doubt that having players with pace in the team has helped him enormously.

On the subject of the manager - there is a lot of criticism of critics for having a go after 2 or 3 games. A lot of those posts though make the point that the criticism was about last season and the way the first 3 games echoed the way the side played from last Christmas. Clearly in the 3 games players were missing and they make a great difference. There was also a lack of the luck in front of goal which any side needs. Equally clearly PH had tried to change the team's style through his signings but it wasn't until the Gateshead game that he really went for it with his team selection and tactics.

I wouldn't suggest that a manager or player takes too much direct notice of posts on a forum but the criticism last season was widespread and continued for 3 more games. It must have made some impact because we had Getyourfactsright coming on to jolly us into rousing support. So it seems very likely that conversations also took place in the club about the progress of the side and the entertainment value for fans paying to go BP. I think that is at the root of the change in philosophy of the manager and the team. Not a reaction to any specific post or poster, but a reaction to substantial and continuing dissatisfaction amongst supporters.

PH's biggest problem is that he is not a great communicator. He might be good in the confines of a dressing room but his interviews are drab and repetitive no matter how hard John Tondeur tries to draw him out. I'm sure there is a sense of humour in there somewhere but he is desperate to be very careful and cautious so that is presumably why he was happy to let Scott do all the PR. PH reminds me a lot of Dave Booth in that respect and look how well he did.


Great post, fully agree.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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grimsby pete
August 27, 2014, 3:45pm

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I think we need a new poll,

I bet Hurst out will be a 95% No,

What a couple of good wins can do.


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                             68 Years following the Town

                              Life member of Trust

                               First game   April 1955
                               
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BeijingMariner
August 27, 2014, 6:54pm
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On Monday LJL had a bag full of chances and scored one and a half. He is never going to be a great goalscorer but that doesn't matter so much if other people are scoring. Previously he was virtually the only player to get any chances though. There is no doubt that having players with pace in the team has helped him enormously.

On the subject of the manager - there is a lot of criticism of critics for having a go after 2 or 3 games. A lot of those posts though make the point that the criticism was about last season and the way the first 3 games echoed the way the side played from last Christmas. Clearly in the 3 games players were missing and they make a great difference. There was also a lack of the luck in front of goal which any side needs. Equally clearly PH had tried to change the team's style through his signings but it wasn't until the Gateshead game that he really went for it with his team selection and tactics.

I wouldn't suggest that a manager or player takes too much direct notice of posts on a forum but the criticism last season was widespread and continued for 3 more games. It must have made some impact because we had Getyourfactsright coming on to jolly us into rousing support. So it seems very likely that conversations also took place in the club about the progress of the side and the entertainment value for fans paying to go BP. I think that is at the root of the change in philosophy of the manager and the team. Not a reaction to any specific post or poster, but a reaction to substantial and continuing dissatisfaction amongst supporters.

PH's biggest problem is that he is not a great communicator. He might be good in the confines of a dressing room but his interviews are drab and repetitive no matter how hard John Tondeur tries to draw him out. I'm sure there is a sense of humour in there somewhere but he is desperate to be very careful and cautious so that is presumably why he was happy to let Scott do all the PR. PH reminds me a lot of Dave Booth in that respect and look how well he did.


I agree that PH is not a great communicator but he does communicate, and if you want to be specific, he sounds very much like a typical Yorkshireman, he sets out his stall according to what he knows and what he has, no BS. If you had said he isn't a showman, I would agree. If you had said he isn't an evangelist, I would agree. For sure, he is not ebullient, he is not loud and in your face....but, hang on.....does everyone need to be like Brian Clough in front of a camera? I don't recall Sir Alex being mistaken for Robbie Williams or Freddie Mercury....point is, I don't need Paul Hurst to entertain me, or to scream "we are the champions" , my friend.....i need the players to do that, I need Paul to make sure that the players are fit enough, in the right position enough and gelling enough to make sure that it happens ENOUGH to win this silly but brutal league. So, forgive me, but Paul, I dont want your song and dance moves, your deep insights into anything other than what makes this current, Great Grimsby Town side work so well. I am 100% behind your quiet style, and i will,accept your dulcet rotherham tones;  long may it reign. Beijing Mariner over and out
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Lincoln Mariner 56
August 27, 2014, 8:08pm
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As many have said forum's are about opinions and a number of PH's critics have explained why we were critical after 3 games, most of it arising from post Christmas performances. I qualified my criticisms by acknowledging Bristol was an ok result and Nuneaton, although frustrating, was understandable given their nine man defence and our lack of wide and pacy players.

The key frustration, certainly for me, was the selection of two wide players against Dover who were not suited to that role hence the poor quality of performance. I stated, and still do, that we need two more players to make us prospective champions and I see that as another quality midfield player and a striker. I accept Arnold may answer one of these but not sure of his best position.

My other concern was whether PH would pick what some of us believe to be his best eleven, i doubted he would, but he has so fair play to him and I hope we achieve the success we all dream of.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
August 27, 2014, 9:59pm
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Quoted from BeijingMariner


I agree that PH is not a great communicator but he does communicate, and if you want to be specific, he sounds very much like a typical Yorkshireman, he sets out his stall according to what he knows and what he has, no BS. If you had said he isn't a showman, I would agree. If you had said he isn't an evangelist, I would agree. For sure, he is not ebullient, he is not loud and in your face....but, hang on.....does everyone need to be like Brian Clough in front of a camera? I don't recall Sir Alex being mistaken for Robbie Williams or Freddie Mercury....point is, I don't need Paul Hurst to entertain me, or to scream "we are the champions" , my friend.....i need the players to do that, I need Paul to make sure that the players are fit enough, in the right position enough and gelling enough to make sure that it happens ENOUGH to win this silly but brutal league. So, forgive me, but Paul, I dont want your song and dance moves, your deep insights into anything other than what makes this current, Great Grimsby Town side work so well. I am 100% behind your quiet style, and i will,accept your dulcet rotherham tones;  long may it reign. Beijing Mariner over and out


I wouldn't disagree with the sentiment.

I'm just saying the problem he has had since he became manager is in (I hate this word but I can't think of another) bonding with the fans. That comes from him not communicating in the interviews. Like I said it would be nice if he just spoke about the positives in a bit more detail to demonstrate his enthusiasm and explain what his ideas were. He doesn't need to shout and scream or do a tap dance. It would help if he asked someone like Tondeur how to modulate his voice to speak to a radio audience as well. People do judge by this sort of thing, look at Scott.


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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120797
August 27, 2014, 10:21pm
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I wouldn't suggest that a manager or player takes too much direct notice of posts on a forum but the criticism last season was widespread and continued for 3 more games.

And what a co-incidence the criticisms stopped when we started winning.
Guess it must have been the criticism that made us win then !
So it seems very likely that conversations also took place in the club about the progress of the side and the entertainment value for fans paying to go BP.

Yes indeed.
Guess last thing the club must have wanted before was to ever win 6-1 or 7-0 !
Nothing to do with players getting a kick up the backside, teams bouncing back after near misses or new players suddenly available who can play a more passing or attacking style.

No sireee it's all down to the those criticizing who take all the credit instead.
Not a reaction to any specific post or poster, but a reaction to substantial and continuing dissatisfaction amongst supporters.

Are you saying they weren't really trying until criticisms were made ?!
What about last season ? Plenty of criticisms there !

I'm also very interested to know what these criticisms on here were regards Gateshead tactics.

I can't particularly remember seeing anyone calling for faster football, nor closing them down or pushing up more.
There might have been 1 or 2 regards passing football but feels like the vast majority were dropping LJL, "negative football" and "Hurst out !

And if you're not winning it's always gonna be perceived as negative isn't it ?
Equally, very interested to know whether you or others will complain about negative football again if we win 1-0 win at Aldershot.

Perhaps I may be wrong but far as I can see it, unless Hurst wins EVERY game in spectacular style he's gonna get criticized

In short, I think endless criticism is very unhelpful and trying to take any credit for what goes on in the dressing room is egotistical bonkers living in fantasy land.
I'm sure there is a sense of humour in there somewhere but he is desperate to be very careful and cautious so that is presumably why he was happy to let Scott do all the PR.

Not even true ?!
He might be good in the confines of a dressing room but his interviews are drab and repetitive no matter how hard John Tondeur tries to draw him out.

Not as drab and repetitive as the endless criticism he gets IMO.  
Personally I find his interviews enjoyable but he can hardly give away team news in advance that might aid the opposition.
Guess you'll be complaining about the colour of his tracksuit next...
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
August 27, 2014, 11:42pm
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I can't be bothered to quote all that drivel 80s. We know the colour of the lenses on your glasses. Anyway I think it is a disgrace for the manager to appear for interview without a suit and tie. Shows disrespect!


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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Abdul19
August 27, 2014, 11:43pm

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Agree with the Mariner from China - Paul Hurst isn't employed to communicate with me, he's employed to communicate with us players.


JESUS AT THE CENTRE
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120797
August 28, 2014, 1:23am
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I can't be bothered to quote all that drivel 80s.

Hardly suprised.
I doubt you can quote anything from this board which answers those questions I posed.
Your reasoned arguments seem to have suddenly dried up.
We know the colour of the lenses on your glasses.

And there was me thinking I just want my club to be united and successful.

Anyway you're wrong !
I HAVE criticized a little myself this season.

Here's a few after Dover:
http://www.grimsby-town.com/forum/grimsby-town-fc-forum_aa/118055-just-back-and-can-t-complain

"Big question for me is whether Paddy should have played left-wing back.
I think he's not particularly suited there (mainly due to lack of pace) and Winfarrah should have started."
"Generally speaking think we drop far too deep when the opposition have the ball.
And aren't pushing up quickly enough in support when we do."

And FWIW I don't think club management have done a particularly superb job in the past either.
But then again if any such past failures existed, it don't bother me one tiny bit (unlike some ?), it's only the future that should matter now.

If the club isn't dragged down by near impossible expectations + relentless criticism each game honestly think we'll have a very serious chance.

As a long suffering fan myself (i.e. it's not JUST those who complain the most) I understand all the frustrations of the past too.
Just hope we can all learn to forgive or forget, bury past disappointments and march forward together for what we surely all want.
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3610
August 28, 2014, 7:30am
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People do judge by this sort of thing, look at Scott.


I would agree with this. Humans are predictably irrational when making decisions, Buying stuff and how we perceive certain events. Marketers and news agencies take advantage of this all the time. For example in the us news agency's can affect how their audience perceives a certain story but simply altering the news readers tone and expressions. So they can say exactly the same words, in a different tone and get completely different reactions.

I think it would make total sense for hurst to have some media training as building rapport with the fans and media Saves managers a lot of grief in the long term. Not surprising john still used to be a salesman- he is great at that.

I also think the guy that commentates can have a big affect on those who don't go to the game. Don't know his name but he always makes out that town miss sitters and the opposition are going to score when ever they get near the box, usually with a massive groan and moan. It's not what he is saying it's how it is presented.
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BeijingMariner
August 28, 2014, 6:03pm
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Quoted from Abdul19
Agree with the Mariner from China - Paul Hurst isn't employed to communicate with me, he's employed to communicate with us players.


Thanks Abdul 19, appreciated. Football is a weird game, people get so passionate. 80's, I've disagreed with you a couple times on the gtfc forum but i know that it doesnt really matter, you are black and white stripes to the core. Don't know Ron Rafferty, but I see where you are coming from, just dont know why you want to argue with someone so B+W as 80's.Check out his posts on the gtfc forum, he isnt rose tinted, he is simply an optimist who believes that if we all build it, they will come....peace, right?

By the way, RRFC, my post wasnt sentimental, it was pretty much based in fact. PH is a man of few words (fact), he doesnt oversell the clubs potential (fact), he is not a loud mouth (fact) and, my guess (not fact) is that in  training he is pretty much the man you see in interviews but maybe a bit more  animated.

paul, if you read this please listen: i work in a place where my manager is more softly spoken than you and we are in a mess but that mess is not due to the intensity and / or volume of his statements.........we are in a mess because he has no idea about where we should be heading and  how to get there........you, however, you do have a direction in mind, and an idea as to how to get there......you speak softly, you carry a stick.....you will do the job because people believe in you or not.....i think between now and April we will see that you know what you are doing.....i believe you....stay the course, Paul. Not sentiment, but belief.
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KingstonMariner
August 28, 2014, 9:23pm
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Quoted from Abdul19
Agree with the Mariner from China - Paul Hurst isn't employed to communicate with me, he's employed to communicate with us players.




Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
August 28, 2014, 9:26pm
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Quoted from 3610


I would agree with this. Humans are predictably irrational when making decisions, Buying stuff and how we perceive certain events. Marketers and news agencies take advantage of this all the time. For example in the us news agency's can affect how their audience perceives a certain story but simply altering the news readers tone and expressions. So they can say exactly the same words, in a different tone and get completely different reactions.

I think it would make total sense for hurst to have some media training as building rapport with the fans and media Saves managers a lot of grief in the long term. Not surprising john still used to be a salesman- he is great at that.

I also think the guy that commentates can have a big affect on those who don't go to the game. Don't know his name but he always makes out that town miss sitters and the opposition are going to score when ever they get near the box, usually with a massive groan and moan. It's not what he is saying it's how it is presented.


John Tondeur I think you mean.

Often Tondeur is right though. He reads the game well, and has seen us often enough to have a good instinct for how things will pan out.  It's something a lot of old moaners can do! He's a fan so he feels it like we feel it. When Town are playing well he waxes lyrical.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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3610
August 28, 2014, 10:26pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


John Tondeur I think you mean.

Often Tondeur is right though. He reads the game well, and has seen us often enough to have a good instinct for how things will pan out.  It's something a lot of old moaners can do! He's a fan so he feels it like we feel it. When Town are playing well he waxes lyrical.


Yeah cheers. I did mean to say what he says is wrong just how he says it. Like you said its cos he is a fan and has an emotional attachment  that it comes across like that. It's like listening to fan zone!
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120797
August 28, 2014, 10:53pm
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Quoted from BeijingMariner
80's, I've disagreed with you a couple times on the gtfc forum but i know that it doesnt really matter, you are black and white stripes to the core. Don't know Ron Rafferty, but I see where you are coming from, just dont know why you want to argue with someone so B+W as 80's.Check out his posts on the gtfc forum, he isnt rose tinted, he is simply an optimist who believes that if we all build it, they will come....peace, right?

Just seen this, thanks Bejing.
Yes, my history on the OS has hardly been "rose tinted" in the past (especially under Woods) by any means lol.

Like you say whether we agree or not doesn't matter, no prizes for right or wrong we're just pulling together for the same thing.

However on this occasion I agree with all your points.
Accept he's not everyone's cup of tea and some will find him boring.
What can you do ? Don't watch or listen seems a fair solution.

Tbf perhaps some of the criticism comes from how he's perceived to talk up other teams.
I can see both sides here tbh, but think there's nothing wrong per-se with a cautious approach on camera.
If it all goes wrong he's gonna make himself look a right berk !

Perhaps some might imagine it's been affecting the team + tactics.
I can't really see it tbh - even before or after we won 7-0 he was hardly thrusting his fist into the air in triumph either.
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LongEatonMariner
August 28, 2014, 11:00pm
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Quoted from grimsby pete
I think we need a new poll,

I bet Hurst out will be a 95% No,

What a couple of good wins can do.


Don't count your chickens just yet Pete, I sense some are still yet to be convinced.
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LongEatonMariner
August 28, 2014, 11:06pm
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Remind me someone, what was Buckley like in interviews? I seem to recall he was hard work for the interviewers. Didn't make him a bad manager, just a bad interviewee.
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Garth
August 29, 2014, 10:55am

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I can remember a time way back when managers were seen but not heard,  too much air time and importance is given to them in todays game, bring back the days when they sat with suit and tie in the stands
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