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Apology to JF

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TWAreaTownSupporter
November 8, 2011, 10:20pm
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I don't hold with the argument that we shouldn't criticise JF because he is a fan at heart and has piled loads of his own money into the club.  He took the decisions. He should take the criticism.

Also its a bit rich to argue "don't pesh him off now because we won't survive without him" when he got us into this mess in the first place and, coupled with Mike Parker, made commitments to meet a certain budget at the start of the season. It all feels like a loaded gun is being held to our heads.

A few years ago JF pressed for a special resolution that allowed him a controlling interest without having to buy out remaining minority shareholders. He was willing to make such a big investment in the club but he wanted the final say.  The argument went that so long as he didn't have to pay for more than 51% of the shares he would have more money to help the club with. Fair enough maybe. But if you want to take all the decisions then you have to take the flak for it.

Personal abuse is another matter. It's not right. But you have to remember it's sometimes a sympton of frustration that people feel when they have no power to influence things.  One alternative is to not care and stop supporting Town. The solution is to stop excluding the ordinary supporters from having a real say in things (despite owning more shares than most directors) becuase they can't offer the finanical guarantees the directors have to make. And incidentally this business of guaranteeing the debt of the club has led us into overspending in the first place!
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barralad
November 8, 2011, 10:22pm
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Quoted from 1600

I've never confused anything at all - you have.

I meant "I sympathise with any abuse he has recieived" but it doesn't mean I think people should be stopped from having their free speech.

How would you define "abuse" exactly ?
"Abuse at the level it has been directed at him" shows you can't ?

Just like swearing I don't encourage "abuse" but I certainly wouldn't want anything(except racism maybe) banned on subjective grounds within a supposedly free society.

Would you like it to be defined as loosely as possible where Fenty is concerned so any little bit of criticism is eventually labelled as "abuse" ?
If you are so anti-abuse (and there's arguably plenty of it on here), then why aren't you on a moral crusade ?

I've heard the argument "when someone takes offence it becomes an issue" - bullshit !
Let THEM grow a pair of b0llocks for a change and deal with the real world instead.
I can take offence myself but it doesn't mean I whip up a storm like a big girl.

If Fenty doesn't like being called nasty names, then whilst it's unfortunate and regrettable if people decide to do it, I'm afraid it's tough titty.

As they say if you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen.


What have I confused exactly?

If you are still in doubt about what constitutes abuse I suggest that you re-read the posts from your bosom buddy "Super Clive" in the various anti-Fenty threads which have proliferated over the past week or so. He's not alone.

Freedom of speech comes as a package with a level of self-responsibility and even self regulation. There is something fundamentally wrong with a society that finds it permissible to hurl vitriolic abuse at a fellow human being.
I've heard the "bullshit" argument against "When someone takes offence it becomes an issue" quite a lot in my work life usually to justify racist behaviour. You suggest that you wouldn't condone racism but then seem unable to understand that abusing people is the same sort of thing? Very strange.
My definition of what constitutes the real world clearly differs from yours and I thank God for that.

I've dealt with your insistence of the existence of pro-and anti- Fenty "lobbies" elsewhere.  There are very, very few people who think John Fenty is beyond any form of criticism. I am certainly not one of them and enjoy the debate about the areas where Mr Fenty could have done better. As for a moral crusade-(whatever that sound bite means...) I am not in the least bit surprised that in your overwhelming desire to be seen as "One of the lads" you choose to mock those who object to the sustained use of very personal abuse against Mr Fenty.

As for behaving like a big girl I could have sworn I've read a post very recently from you stating that you were thinking of boycotting a game because of something someone has posted on here?! Pot, kettle comes to mind. Come to think of it it isn't the first time you've chosen to use the ultimate weapon  


The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.

Joseph Joubert.
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thebigeasy
November 8, 2011, 10:31pm
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Quoted Text
Personally, I feel that reads like someone who has been threathened with the law and has been told 'take it back, act as my mouthpiece or be sued'.  
I, like the vast majority, never believed for one minute that Fenty was about to sell off BP, sodomist off with a big wedge in his pocket and a smile on his face.  
Still, Fenty has made doubly sure that none of us are in any doubt in only the way he could and hopefully this is the end of the whole embarrassing affair.


For the sake of good order that is totally untrue - and hopefully Rob will confirm part of this.
When I read Robs post and the message he received from JF on here, I contacted Rob immediately to check to see if I was one of those who had caused offence - as it turned out I had. No one contacted me or threatened me.
I then contacted JF, who I have had email conversations with in the past, explained my situation and said I would like to take up a previous offer he had made to meet him. JF agreed and I met him at his home on Sunday evening which was mutually convenient to us both. I arrived just after 6.30pm and was met by JF. The conversation we had was friendly and JF shared with me many pieces of information relating to his involvement with the club, including financial issues, managerial appointments and sackings, and board room problems. He also expressed his revulsion at the recent posts and suggestions on the Fishy. We discussed the football club at length and I left at just before midnight.
On my journey home I considered what had been said and had made my mind up before I got home the correct course of action would be to post an apology on The Fishy. Yes, JF saw the initial draft of my post and yes he did ask for a few things to be added. You have read the post - and I am happy with what I have said. They are my words, no one elses.
Everyone knows I am very unhappy with what has happened over recent years, and I can honestly say I didn't agree with JF on everything we discussed. But, in this situation I was wrong and I am happy to admit it. Those who have questioned his motives since, should do the same.
I will continue to be critical of the running of the club if it is what I believe, and JF quite candidly said he understood the criticism even if it was distressing. But as I said in my apology my suppositions were wrong and that caused a great deal of angst. I didn't set out to do this (and never have) and as such the record needed putting straight.
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Grim up north
November 8, 2011, 10:37pm
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A good read Big easy and fair play to John.
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thebigeasy
November 8, 2011, 10:37pm
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Just my opinion based on Fenty's initial threatof legal action and the fact Rob told us that IP addresses of those concerned had been passed on to Fenty.


Again totally untrue - for the record it is very easy to evade any capture by use of an IP address. If that is what I had intended I would have done it.

If I am wrong I will stand corrected - that is what happened. Also as a result I am also a lot wiser about events at GTFC over the last 10 years, including recent months!
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My cats dreams
November 8, 2011, 10:42pm

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Did u ask him if he regretted saying i wont devalue the product,that in its self should have taken a few hours to clear up. I roam the alleys near bp but sady my fellow felines have cleared off,i would ask fenty how do we get those cats back


Dogs are smelly creatures full of there own importance
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malkamalka
November 8, 2011, 10:53pm
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Quoted from thebigeasy


Yes, JF saw the initial draft of my post and yes he did ask for a few things to be added.


No, this can't be happening. Maybe we should all submit our postings to Mr. Fenty for his approval before posting them on the Board.

People keep referring to John Fenty as "Chairman" which he isn't!



"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." (Jimi Hendrix)
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80sglory
November 8, 2011, 10:57pm
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Quoted from barralad


What have I confused exactly?

If you are still in doubt about what constitutes abuse I suggest that you re-read the posts from your bosom buddy "Super Clive" in the various anti-Fenty threads which have proliferated over the past week or so. He's not alone.

Freedom of speech comes as a package with a level of self-responsibility and even self regulation. There is something fundamentally wrong with a society that finds it permissible to hurl vitriolic abuse at a fellow human being.
I've heard the "bullshit" argument against "When someone takes offence it becomes an issue" quite a lot in my work life usually to justify racist behaviour. You suggest that you wouldn't condone racism but then seem unable to understand that abusing people is the same sort of thing? Very strange.
My definition of what constitutes the real world clearly differs from yours and I thank God for that.

I've dealt with your insistence of the existence of pro-and anti- Fenty "lobbies" elsewhere.  There are very, very few people who think John Fenty is beyond any form of criticism. I am certainly not one of them and enjoy the debate about the areas where Mr Fenty could have done better. As for a moral crusade-(whatever that sound bite means...) I am not in the least bit surprised that in your overwhelming desire to be seen as "One of the lads" you choose to mock those who object to the sustained use of very personal abuse against Mr Fenty.

As for behaving like a big girl I could have sworn I've read a post very recently from you stating that you were thinking of boycotting a game because of something someone has posted on here?! Pot, kettle comes to mind. Come to think of it it isn't the first time you've chosen to use the ultimate weapon  

I thought you had confused me sympathizing with abuse when I was sympathizing with JF for the abuse he's received.

The fact I may agree with Super Clive on some things doesn't mean we're "bosom buddies" or I think he's always right to voice his opinion in the way he does.

I'll be honest - I think e.g. voiceofreason speaks a lot of sense, but even I get can annoyed at the way he (and others) seem far too keen to let rip any chance he gets.

But that's the price of freedom we all enjoy.  
If I were to object to people saying what they wanted, I'd be objecting to free speech and I can't and won't do that !

Maybe instead I should try to "persude" these people to have a less serious outlook, but when they're demonized left right and centre by others who have no desire to build bridges with them or to stop moaning and arguing themselves, then I don't because I fear the issue is more than people trying to reach common ground as one big happy family of GTFC supporters pulling in the same direction.

As for your "self-responsibility" argument I would agree but that's the point, it's ultimately up to THEM to do what they think is right.
Not to simply act in accordance with subjective opinions of the moral majority about right and wrong.
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forza ivano
November 9, 2011, 9:46am

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I despair of this club sometimes - I pity JF, Dave Otter, Emma Gillingham, pseudonym and anyone else who volunteers or tries to do anything positive for this club. JF spends 5 hours of his Sunday night talking through the plight of the club with just a normal fan and the pathetic criticism continues.Do you lot find it impossible to give him any sort of credit whatsoever? how many chairmen of professional football clubs would do that?
and just one question which all of you Fenty haters spectacularly fail to answer is this;if fenty and/or parker walk away exactly WHO is coming in to save our club? Are you 80s glory? are you big clive? are you tagg?are you my cats dreams? no , you feckin ain't are you? as usual you'll sit on your backsides and just keep moaning and bitching. you're just like the lads in the lower smiths who took advantage of one of the super cheap entrance deals and then spent the half time break berating fenty to his face because one of the bars wasn't open!
perhaps if you're not going to do anything positive you could at least illuminate us as to how, if fenty and parker walk away the club will be run and by whom? i await with baited breath your business plans and financial projections..........



ps bigeasy - have only very rarely agreed with your posts but big respect to you for doing and posting that.very interesting and you deserve your new plus point- lol!

pps - 5 hours in the same house as mrs fenty and the delightful daughter - a lot of town fans will be very very jealous
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RoboCod
November 9, 2011, 9:59am
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Quoted from forza ivano
I despair of this club sometimes - I pity JF, Dave Otter, Emma Gillingham, pseudonym and anyone else who volunteers or tries to do anything positive for this club. JF spends 5 hours of his Sunday night talking through the plight of the club with just a normal fan and the pathetic criticism continues.Do you lot find it impossible to give him any sort of credit whatsoever? how many chairmen of professional football clubs would do that?
and just one question which all of you Fenty haters spectacularly fail to answer is this;if fenty and/or parker walk away exactly WHO is coming in to save our club? Are you 80s glory? are you big clive? are you tagg?are you my cats dreams?


Buh..buh...but there was no Fenty-bashing
"What are you on about ?
Please point to this "Fenty bashing free for all" you're referring to ?" says 80's  

Good post. It doesn't take a Fenty fan to appreciate he went to extra lengths to chat to a fan about his concerns. He may not be credited with much else at the moment but that is something I can admire him for.


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