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Posted by: Hagrid, September 14, 2024, 5:03pm
Terrible that. First half horrendous. Second much the same but for the first ten minutes

Barrow pressed us and identified our weak as urine defending from set pieces.

Huffed and puffed second half, hit outside of the post and nearly an own goal at the end.

Defensively this manager has not improved us, Hume is awful, awful. Rodgers is the same excrement as he was last season and its 4 losses from 6.

Is that improvement? Subs bizzare, he’s reluctant to go 2 up top till its too late, my thoughts on him are well known, and our inability to keep the ball out the net is putting us in danger in every game we play.
Posted by: promotion plaice, September 14, 2024, 5:05pm; Reply: 1

Glad I didn't go.
Posted by: Ford Cortina, September 14, 2024, 5:06pm; Reply: 2
Still the best bet on the fixed odds coupons
GRIMSBY NO CLEAN SHEET,
Always shows a profit!
:) :) :) :) :)
Posted by: Mariner John, September 14, 2024, 5:08pm; Reply: 3
No shots first half but possession yawn. Rose on his own, again yawn. Set pieces oh my
Posted by: DB, September 14, 2024, 5:08pm; Reply: 4
I did post some time ago that 10 games will show how we're getting on, and it's not looking good for Artell
Posted by: Badger57, September 14, 2024, 5:11pm; Reply: 5
A lot of huff and puff. A distinct lack of skill. Defensively awful against set pieces.
Trust the data, we are a poor side.
Posted by: grimsby pete, September 14, 2024, 5:12pm; Reply: 6
I have made my mind up about Artell..

No more comments from me until we get a decent manager in.
Posted by: dapperz fun pub, September 14, 2024, 5:16pm; Reply: 7
Like I said on the Wright thread our goalkeeping set piece coach   isn’t doing a very good job
Posted by: gtfc_chris, September 14, 2024, 5:18pm; Reply: 8
I did some ‘work’ last week as I was interested in some stats about town from last season. The full works is saved on a word document should anyone want it posting (be warned, it’s long, detailed and ultimately… boring), but one of the key things I took from it is that the game in which we had most possession (66%), we lost 6-1. On the flip side, the three games we had the least possession (all below 40%) we won.

It’s almost a parallel to that. >60% possession but we haven’t made it count. A much better second half where we’ve probably controlled the ball more, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re level, or even behind, on chances and shots at goal. As much as we looked better than first half (which wasn’t necessarily hard if we’re being honest) we still didn’t truly have a spell that made you believe a goal was coming. A few ‘out your seat’ moments but nothing sustained. We have no right to believe we should simply dominate the attacking flow of the game but certainly when behind we need to have both the direction, intensity and bravery to simply go at it. If you’re losing then without a shift in approach then that will most likely remain the case.

The second half renewed some belief that we’re able to compete with the teams up there but again provides frustration that two avoidable goals have cost us points.

I’m not ordinarily a Rogers hater or anything like that, I don’t see him as a top L2 player but equally I don’t think he’s poor. However, there were too many times he frustrated when on the ball and just looking so casual. I get the need to be calm and composed but there’s a limit before you can’t help but be annoyed. The whole point of playing out from the back is to create an opportunity to break into midfield rather than play into it, yet he often just stood with the ball when the space was in front. Very frustrating.
Posted by: headingly_mariner, September 14, 2024, 5:18pm; Reply: 9
Shocking first half today. We gifted 2 goals with just not picking people up.

Not ruthless enough in our good spells.

If you're one of those people booing and giving the players shite for keeping the ball. You're a girl private.
We were really good first two home games, we played some good football in them.  It's got to be the aim.
Imagine going to scream at players to lump it.
Posted by: chaos33, September 14, 2024, 5:24pm; Reply: 10
The table looks all too familiar.
Found our way to the perpetual , inevitable, frankly f***ing pitiful 4th bottom already.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 14, 2024, 5:28pm; Reply: 11
If I was the manager, I'd be setting up the set pieces myself not relying on a goalkeeping coach.

That said, the manager has to have a Plan B because the writing was on the wall long before they scored. He stated, pre match, that they have a mid press. So guess what? They changed it up and pressed high. We lost the ball time and again because they forced us to go long. McJannet had comfortably his worst game in a Town shirt, McEachran too coughed up possession as our midfield were outclassed.

Hard to pick an MoM but I'd go with Warren who kept us in the game on a few occasions.
Posted by: chaos33, September 14, 2024, 5:34pm; Reply: 12
Just way too easy for them. Easiest read.
Posted by: gtfc98, September 14, 2024, 5:36pm; Reply: 13
A hard watch but got to give Barrow some credit who did a job on us. Always 2 players on McEachren who had no time whatsoever on the ball and couldn't get us going. Once they went ahead it all seemed quite inevitable. For all of the huffing and puffing in the second half it felt very similar to the Fleetwood game; lots of possession but mainly across the back 4. The soft goals are definitely a worry but the bigger concern for me is how utterly f*cked we looked after 70 mins. Rose (understandable), Green & Khouri in particular were absolutely out on their feet. We've got to be fitter if we want to compete over 90 mins.

Let's hope we can turn in a better performance against Bromley, and hopefully Obikwu, Luker and Thompson aren't too far away.
Posted by: Hagrid, September 14, 2024, 5:37pm; Reply: 14
thats a very good point, we look very unfit. So many dead on their feet after 65 mins
Posted by: davmariner, September 14, 2024, 5:38pm; Reply: 15
Barrow outthought us tactically and outfought us on the pitch. Teams have cottoned on that if they press Hume, chances are he’ll make a mistake and if they sit off Rodgers as he’ll hoof it into touch.
Posted by: Zmariner, September 14, 2024, 5:41pm; Reply: 16
Abysmal in all areas, Rodger’s is a weak link
Cue the next relegation battle, put up or shut up Artell , this is linear to correct him , it is downhill and very consistent. I am patient but this is just crap
Posted by: dapperz fun pub, September 14, 2024, 5:46pm; Reply: 17
Quoted from Zmariner
Abysmal in all areas, Rodger’s is a weak link
Cue the next relegation battle, put up or shut up Artell , this is linear to correct him , it is downhill and very consistent. I am patient but this is just crap


Hopefully we won’t see Rodger’s for awhile if Doug’s fit , Rodger’s is persistently a 5 out of ten performer or even worse.  
Posted by: RichMariner, September 14, 2024, 5:47pm; Reply: 18
Not having a go, just raising a point here.

We signed players based on certain metrics/data. I’d love to know how those same metrics compare since they’ve been playing in a Town shirt.

The discrepancies will highlight where we’re coming up short. If someone’s gone from achieving 80% successful pass completion to 70% successful pass completion, that at least gives us something to focus on.

You learn more in defeat, etc.
Posted by: sydney, September 14, 2024, 5:48pm; Reply: 19
Echo Most Comments Here
V Poor probably worse than at Meadow Lane
Seriously Worried (Again)
Not a DA fan at all and feel overall we should consider a change sooner rather than later
The table doesn’t lie, already
Come on Owners!!
Come on Town!!
Posted by: Lincspoacher, September 14, 2024, 5:54pm; Reply: 20
Ok, here we go.

We started flat, very flat. No pressing, no urgency and it looked like a gentle pass around the back in a testimonial from the first minute.

Exaxctly the opposite of what we saw at home to Bradford.

When you start like this, it is always impossible to then up the enerhy and intensity and to asd to the difficulty, the atmosphere at BP reflected back what we were seeing and was also flat.

Wht we were not on it from the off is beyond me. We are not good enough to be in stroller mode.

Barrow (like a few teams last season) have done their homework on Town under DA. Press the midfield and let the defenders take the ball and then all press quickly.

Result was Eastwood, Rodgers and McJarret had the most touches of the ball in the whole game - either between themselves or giving it away after 8 passes to one another and then launching an aimless long one up field.


Barrow? Played football but with a purpose and looked to progress and not see possession as the goal.


2 superb corners and 2 goals could have been much worse had they taken their chances and the nice header from Rose on the stroke of half time saved Artel from 5200 boos.

First 5 mins of 2nd half was better and we were inlucky not to equalise with 1 good move (to add to the 1 good move and hoal in the 1st)

TBH, after then, Barrow controlled the game and I have not seen us look that impotent since last seasons hammerings phase.

I am worried tbh.

Not saying we are going to get relegated, but its gone from optimism to fear this evening.

Where is our threat coming from when Vernam doesn't play
well?

Not looking forward to Bromley at the minute.

Green - thank you for running ur blooody socks off. Wish that endeavour and desire was shared.
Posted by: mimma, September 14, 2024, 5:54pm; Reply: 21
For what it's worth, I thought Greeny had a good game. Town POTM by a country mile.
Posted by: Alan Buckley, September 14, 2024, 5:55pm; Reply: 22
Teams have already worked out we have no plan B. They just let our defenders have it knowing rose was isolated so we’d have to try to play out and give the ball away.

Stands out a mile how small we are and the lack of physicality.

Gear up for plenty of excrement teams bullying us out of games. We haven’t played a decent team yet either other than Notts county. Worrying signs.
Posted by: barralad, September 14, 2024, 5:57pm; Reply: 23
The defence get stick which is justified but for me the midfield don't escape criticism. No-one wants the ball enough or is prepared to find space.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 14, 2024, 6:03pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from barralad
The defence get stick which is justified but for me the midfield don't escape criticism. No-one wants the ball enough or is prepared to find space.


Exactly. It’s ok for Green to run around but he only does it with the ball not without the ball. I’m not knocking his effort but it has to be with a purpose. It’s no good having the ball if there’s no one to pass to which is how and why Rodgers and McJannet spent the afternoon passing to each other.
Posted by: chaos33, September 14, 2024, 6:03pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from Alan Buckley
Teams have already worked out we have no plan B. They just let our defenders have it knowing rose was isolated so we’d have to try to play out and give the ball away.

Stands out a mile how small we are and the lack of physicality.

Gear up for plenty of excrement teams bullying us out of games. We haven’t played a decent team yet either other than Notts county. Worrying signs.


Yup
Posted by: BrMarin, September 14, 2024, 6:10pm; Reply: 26


Have we started training in defending set pieces yet? Maybe we should have started earlier.


Posted by: BrMarin, September 14, 2024, 6:18pm; Reply: 27
Quoted from Lincspoacher



Wht we were not on it from the off is beyond me. We are not good enough to be in stroller mode.

Barrow (like a few teams last season) have done their homework on Town under DA. Press the midfield and let the defenders take the ball and then all press quickly.



They decided to aggressively press Hume meaning he had no-one to pass to. Artell should have fixed this immediately.


Posted by: Maringer, September 14, 2024, 6:24pm; Reply: 28
Some overreactions on here, I think.

We were very poor for the first 30 minutes, our midfield was dominated (their No. 8 was running the show), our passing went to pieces under the pressure - more needlessly misplaced simple passages than we've had in total in the past couple of games - and they looked like they would score every time they got a set piece. Their extra pace across the pitch was telling and they weren't bad footballers either. The second ball kept falling to them time and again, sometimes fortunately, but it's not all by chance when you keep getting it back so often.

However, for the last 10 or 15 minutes, we managed to get into it a bit more, got in behind a couple of times and then scored following a good bit of play and an excellent cross and header.

For the first 20 minutes or so of the second half we looked on top but the real failing was that we got in behind them down the wings quite lots of times times, but never managed to find a player with the cross. Too many hit straight into the hands of the keeper or rolling behind all our players. I don't doubt that Artell will mention these wasted opportunities - can't call them a chance, obviously. On another day, we might have nicked an equaliser, on another day they might have had another.

I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist about a poor performance which led to a defeat. The main thing is to make sure we don't play like that first 30 minutes too often.

My main concern is that the squad is very thin, in part due to the injuries at the moment, especially in midfield. When we make subs, it doesn't improve the team and we completely lost our shape for the last 15 minutes or so. One of the reasons some of the players, midfielders especially, are looking so knackered is that they've had to play almost all of each game because of lack of other options. Still created the odd half chance after the subs today but nothing came of them and we didn't put them under any concerted pressure.

It was frustrating how we were so tentative and passed the ball across the back throughout the game, needlessly at times, but I think that was a reflection that the midfield weren't getting themselves into position to receive the ball. Still, there was no reason that the players couldn't have shifted it faster than they did.

I think we've got plenty of ability this season which should be enough to see us finish in mid-table, but we've got to do more when we get in behind teams over and over again (more touches in the opposition box than them again today), but never force the keeper into a save. I'm hoping we'll improve a good bit when Thompson returns and hopefully Luker and Obikwu will be able to add a lot to the attack as Barrington doesn't look like he can at the moment.
Posted by: moosey_club, September 14, 2024, 6:25pm; Reply: 29
Barrow decent side, physical strength in areas we couldn't match and from previous weeks they have shown they are a threat from set pieces. They are top of the league I believe...or at least were at some point today.

We didn't get going at all, they knew what we wanted to do and limited it by and large.

Second half we showed more but for the times we got around the back we couldn't pick out a player or they just defended it better.

I do feel we need either a change in set up up front as we don't really offer a threat in the box or additional firepower....and not for the first time i felt our substitutions made us weaker.

You have to acknowledge Barrows strengths as well as our own shortcomings on this one I feel.
Posted by: buckstown, September 14, 2024, 6:26pm; Reply: 30
What a shocker, we were second best for most of that.
I can’t recall a game when the opposition won virtually every loose/second ball and other than rare moments they controlled the game. We weren’t good defensively but the lack of movement when we played out of defensive was worrying and that’s why Rodgers and McJannet saw so much of the ball.
I said after Chesterfield that we won’t win games until we start keeping clean sheets but there’s no sign that’s happening soon.
Very flat and I can’t get my head round being outplayed by a team that plays in front of 2500 every week
Posted by: WayneBurnettsJockstrap, September 14, 2024, 6:26pm; Reply: 31
I would love to know, for every game so far this season, how many times we have had the ball in the oppositions half and ended up one or two passes later with the ball back at our keeper. This is because teams press against us when we have the ball and we have nobody running into space.
Posted by: Maringer, September 14, 2024, 6:29pm; Reply: 32
The comment that we haven't yet played a decent team other than Notts County is ludicrous, when we've just faced the third-placed team which was probably the most threatening we've faced. Try not to forget that County got a three goal head start due to refereeing errors and luck. Unless they suffer a load of injuries, I'd be surprised if Barrow weren't up there come the end of the season.
Posted by: AussieMariner, September 14, 2024, 6:35pm; Reply: 33
Quoted from chaos33
The table looks all too familiar.
Found our way to the perpetual , inevitable, frankly f***ing pitiful 4th bottom already.


4 points clear of relegation and 4 points out of the playoffs 😁🤪
Posted by: Alan Buckley, September 14, 2024, 6:35pm; Reply: 34
Quoted from Maringer
The comment that we haven't yet played a decent team other than Notts County is ludicrous, when we've just faced the third-placed team which was probably the most threatening we've faced. Try not to forget that County got a three goal head start due to refereeing errors and luck. Unless they suffer a load of injuries, I'd be surprised if Barrow weren't up there come the end of the season.


Just because they are third doesn’t mean they are a good team. It’s a very poor league this season from watching all our games plus plenty others on tv. If you watched that today and thought blimey barrow are a good side then you need to give your head a wobble.
Posted by: jonnyboy82, September 14, 2024, 6:40pm; Reply: 35
It's getting a bit boring now rinse repeat.

We are weak , easily bullied and lack of quality yet again despite artell having a few transfer markets to strengthen the centre of  midfield  since knowing Thompson is out for a while .

We can't rely on one man running that defensive midfield position all season as its clear there ain't anyone ready to fill his boots. That's just one position we are weak in.

Don't start me on the goalkeeper situation again please.  I'm angry at the lack of overall quality tbh and that lies on one man.
Posted by: Boonsy, September 14, 2024, 6:41pm; Reply: 36
Ha ha.  All calling for Artell ahead. What utter utter nonsense. What are you expecting. Town are at BEST a league two side. I just want them to consolidate in this league. Be comfortable here and then push on. Artell has a job to do. To maintain town and keep them in this league. That’s progression.

Stop with the Artell out nonsense. Do you honestly believe we are gonna get a manager that is going to race us to the top of the league?  Who would want this job if the fans are so fickle. Get a grip and be realistic. The league doesn’t lie. We deserve to be where we are. Artell a job is to ensure we stay in this league consistently
Posted by: Hagrid, September 14, 2024, 6:44pm; Reply: 37
Quoted from Boonsy
Ha ha.  All calling for Artell ahead. What utter utter nonsense. What are you expecting. Town are at BEST a league two side. I just want them to consolidate in this league. Be comfortable here and then push on. Artell has a job to do. To maintain town and keep them in this league. That’s progression.

Stop with the Artell out nonsense. Do you honestly believe we are gonna get a manager that is going to race us to the top of the league?  Who would want this job if the fans are so fickle. Get a grip and be realistic. The league doesn’t lie. We deserve to be where we are. Artell a job is to ensure we stay in this league consistently



You say this as though its a Grimsby thing. Get your head out the clouds man
Posted by: Bigwinn1975, September 14, 2024, 6:45pm; Reply: 38
Two players worthy of comment today- Green gave his al despite being dead on his feet by 60 mins and warren did a good job on the whole

Everyone else just not good enough and hume really had a bad game

Awful first half. Second a bit better but, and I’ve said it before… why don’t we have any personnel who will take a s0dding shot on goal

It’s so frustrating

Bromley next
Posted by: Boonsy, September 14, 2024, 6:50pm; Reply: 39
Quoted from Hagrid



You say this as though its a Grimsby thing. Get your head out the clouds man


You mean those fluffy dreamy white feathery clouds.  You know sleep and dream a dream of winning this league. Ha ha ha.  Town are at very best a mediocre league two side. No way are we a challenging team. Be realistic. Get behind artelll what will skating him do if not to demoralise. The test of the true fan is stand at his back when he needs the support. Ie when losing. When town are winning he doesn’t need your hugs and kisses.  Moany bum 😏😏
Posted by: Northbank Mariner, September 14, 2024, 6:53pm; Reply: 40
Preseason we looked awful at set pieces, fast forward 2 months and we are still awful at set pieces!!, and Artell admits on RH that we do 30 mins on a Friday afternoon around set pieces.
I really want to believe in Artell, that he has a plan, that he can improve us in all departments and get us up the league, but I can't lie, I'm starting to lose faith in him.
Today he had no plan B, he doesn't do anything in game to change things, then blames everyone but himself, its a bit tiresome I'm afraid
Posted by: BrMarin, September 14, 2024, 7:00pm; Reply: 41
Quoted from Bigwinn1975
Two players worthy of comment today- Green gave his al despite being dead on his feet by 60 mins and warren did a good job on the whole

Everyone else just not good enough and hume really had a bad game

Awful first half. Second a bit better but, and I’ve said it before… why don’t we have any personnel who will take a s0dding shot on goal

It’s so frustrating

Bromley next


Thought Hume was ok and McEachran was good.

Posted by: heppy88, September 14, 2024, 7:04pm; Reply: 42
Went straight to the signal box blues and ale festival after the match.
Plenty of Town fans there to watch an amazing display of talent, passion, timing, energy, skill and showmanship. Goosebumps, hairs on the back of the neck by 3 amateur musicians, giving there all for the crowd. What those who attended BP today witnessed was so far removed from this it’s sad to be honest.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 14, 2024, 7:07pm; Reply: 43
Hoping that Thompson, Luker and Davies are fit as soon as possible because our midfield is way too reliant on McEachran.

As for Barrington, his brief cameos are beginning to resemble those of Mikey O’Neill. And that’s not good.
Posted by: Swansea_Mariner, September 14, 2024, 7:11pm; Reply: 44
Quoted from Boonsy
Ha ha.  All calling for Artell ahead. What utter utter nonsense. What are you expecting. Town are at BEST a league two side. I just want them to consolidate in this league. Be comfortable here and then push on. Artell has a job to do. To maintain town and keep them in this league. That’s progression.

Stop with the Artell out nonsense. Do you honestly believe we are gonna get a manager that is going to race us to the top of the league?  Who would want this job if the fans are so fickle. Get a grip and be realistic. The league doesn’t lie. We deserve to be where we are. Artell a job is to ensure we stay in this league consistently


Why are you spamming this balderdash we're seven out of eight seasons in league 2, what are we consolidating being a bottom  six side. I don't expect to be top of the league but I absolutely do not accept us perennially circling the bottom six places. Needs sorting.
Posted by: LH, September 14, 2024, 7:14pm; Reply: 45
The only time we’ve looked semi competent for a prolonged period under Artell is when he abandoned his style and went to a more pragmatic one. It’s a real drag getting myself up for a trip to BP - again!  
Posted by: Hagrid, September 14, 2024, 7:14pm; Reply: 46
Quoted from BrMarin


Thought Hume was ok and McEachran was good.



Hume was horrendous today. Defensively he is very poor
Posted by: Maringer, September 14, 2024, 7:15pm; Reply: 47
Quoted from Alan Buckley


Just because they are third doesn’t mean they are a good team. It’s a very poor league this season from watching all our games plus plenty others on tv. If you watched that today and thought blimey barrow are a good side then you need to give your head a wobble.


Ah, the 'They are only one point from the top of the table because they aren't very good' argument. I watched us play Barrow today. We didn't play well but they looked good in most phases of play. Perhaps lacking a little bit down the middle, but a powerful midfield, decent defence and a threat down the wings. They will be up there. If you don't think so, perhaps try your own wobble?
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 14, 2024, 7:17pm; Reply: 48
Quoted from Maringer


Ah, the 'They are only one point from the top of the table because they aren't very good' argument. I watched us play Barrow today. We didn't play well but they looked good in most phases of play. Perhaps lacking a little bit down the middle, but a powerful midfield, decent defence and a threat down the wings. They will be up there. If you don't think so, perhaps try your own wobble?


However decent they are, we contrived to make them look like Man City.
Posted by: Maringer, September 14, 2024, 7:17pm; Reply: 49
Hume really struggled during that first half, mostly because their winger was too good for him. A lad on loan from Leicester, apparently. Much more of a threat than our young loan winger, unfortunately.
Posted by: ska face, September 14, 2024, 7:21pm; Reply: 50
Glad we went with that experiment in goal, 2 free headers in the 6-yard box plus another carbon copy about 2 mins before the second goal.Really clever stuff - presumably you’ve got to put an unhappy Wright back in next week then?

Rodgers makes me physically ill watching him, appalling. All well and good Artell moaning at the fans saying the intention is to entice the opposition to press - if Rodgers has the ball and 10 yards of space in front of him, it’s not the fans’ fault he decides to turn around and go back to the keeper. And it’s not the fans slowly bobbling his passes into Mceachran on the rare occasion his isn’t marked.

You cannot seriously tell me they stand on that training pitch during the week and when there isn’t an option immediately free, Artell lets them go straight back to the keeper and just stand in the same positions? Doesn’t happen, so why isn’t it rectified after 30 mins of the exact pattern repeating?
Posted by: jimgtfc, September 14, 2024, 7:22pm; Reply: 51
If you can forget the stigma around us playing ’Barrow’, yes ‘Barrow’, and realise that they were actually third in the league before kick off, and only missed out on the playoffs by a mere point last season, then you might actually realise that these guys know what they’re doing.

Different manager I know, but last season they came here and played us off the park, I’m still scratching my head as to how we picked up 3 points that day. They’re well drilled, have a clear, yet fluid game plan. As others have pointed out already, today, they let us play out, didn’t press us high but packed the midfield out and didn’t let us have a minute in there. To counter, Artell strangely pushed Khouri and Green really high and wide, almost standing on our wingers toes in an attempt to stretch Barrow, but this left McEachran alone in a chasm of a midfield. To be fair he did well in there, but he was stifled, and could only play safe, mainly non forward passes.

It was a strange game in a way, I don’t think it was quite as bad as some are making it out to be. Both teams sort of stopped each other playing, barring their two set pieces. We didn’t create much, but neither did they. I get the frustration at the slow build up play but some of the knuckle draggers sat in the upper near me just shouting “FORWARD!” every time the centre halves exchanged passes were only adding to the frustrating tension. That was the point, we couldn’t go forward, like a game of draughts when you’re cornered in by your opponent. They sucker punched us twice, poor marking probably but they were excellent in swinging corners, and ruthless finishes. All in all, that was the difference today. We had 64% of the possession, yet they dwarfed our 9 shots by 16, we also had 7 corners to their 6, but our set piece xG was 0.08 compared to their 0.62. Now there’s some data for you.
Posted by: Captaincod, September 14, 2024, 7:24pm; Reply: 52
Quoted from Northbank Mariner
Preseason we looked awful at set pieces, fast forward 2 months and we are still awful at set pieces!!, and Artell admits on RH that we do 30 mins on a Friday afternoon around set pieces.
I really want to believe in Artell, that he has a plan, that he can improve us in all departments and get us up the league, but I can't lie, I'm starting to lose faith in him.
Today he had no plan B, he doesn't do anything in game to change things, then blames everyone but himself, its a bit tiresome I'm afraid


I picked up on that too. He said we spend half an hour practicing all set pieces , throw ins , free kicks and corners, both attacking and defending. That’s 5 mins for each then. No wonder we’re so crap at them !
He’s really starting to worry me now , I just think the blokes delusional and a total fraud. If you can’t get your team to get basic defending right , then we’re heading nowhere but down.
Already it looks like we are pinning our hopes on 2 teams being worse than us again this season .
Posted by: AncientExiledMariner, September 14, 2024, 7:25pm; Reply: 53
Cannot wait until Tharme and Thompson are fit. Need that stable spine.

Could do with Davies, and Okibwu back for that goal threat. Would also like to see what Luker can do.

More to come from us. Let's not forget Barrow are a team that flirt with the playoffs. They're a good team.
Posted by: Maringer, September 14, 2024, 7:32pm; Reply: 54
Quoted from ska face
Glad we went with that experiment in goal, 2 free headers in the 6-yard box plus another carbon copy about 2 mins before the second goal.Really clever stuff - presumably you’ve got to put an unhappy Wright back in next week then?



Do you really think that the keeper could have collected either of those crosses? Absolutely no chance with the second and pretty much none with the first with all the players in front of him. If you want to blame him for being slow off his line which led to the second corner, then fair enough, but let's not make things up here.

Rodgers' passing wasn't great today, but then McJannet, who has been almost faultless with the ball this season, passed the ball straight to the attacker on a few occasions in the first half alone. The defenders do seem to take the easy option and pass back more often than they should (and much more often today). Barrow left their striker high up the pitch all game to stop the pass between the central defenders and we didn't adapt. I do think the midfield were a lot to blame as they just weren't making themselves available.

It also doesn't help when the crowd starts screaming at a player for passing back on the occasions when it is the sensible option!
Posted by: BirtlesHatTrick, September 14, 2024, 7:36pm; Reply: 55
The first 30 minutes are as bad as I’ve seen. Did think we’d get an equaliser though. Barrow will be up there.

We just about get away with playing out from the back against poorer teams. But it seems to me that every opposing manager identifies this as our weak spot (it is) and they just press us into panic mode.

I’m not as despondent as some on here. We’re missing some excellent players and I do think we’ll get better. But there are issues which are obvious and which desperately need sorting.
Posted by: BrMarin, September 14, 2024, 7:36pm; Reply: 56
Quoted from Hagrid


Hume was horrendous today. Defensively he is very poor


What did you think about Warren? Only ever passes to Rodgers or the goalkeeper like a robot.  Artell wanted to use Hume to play out and Hume got punished because the Barrow manager knows stuff about tactics. Hume did  ok considering he was being targeted. Definitely not horrendous.
Posted by: golfer, September 14, 2024, 7:40pm; Reply: 57
Green was again the only one who scored more than 5 again. Green is the only one who is determined to get stuck in to win every tackle. Green is the only one who gives his all Why can't the others try to emulate him.
Posted by: Captaincod, September 14, 2024, 7:42pm; Reply: 58
Quoted from BrMarin


What did you think about Warren? Only ever passes to Rodgers or the goalkeeper like a robot.  Artell wanted to use Hume to play out and Hume got punished because the Barrow manager knows stuff about tactics. Hume did  ok considering he was being targeted. Definitely not horrendous.


Why do you think they targeted him? Maybe because they knew he’s not very good !
Posted by: acko338, September 14, 2024, 7:43pm; Reply: 59
Can we have Khouri in at left back, please, can't be any worse, slow or bullied than the two currently fighting for the place!

It's the easy route through our defence, pulling others out of place to cover them.

Get Tharne back in, and when is Thompson going to be fit to harden up the midfield and inject some urgency into Town's play again?

2 nervous goalies, neither of which seem to communicate with their defence, or dominate the box.

At least Artell just managed to hold his frustration and temper in his post match interview.

No win bonus for the defence coaches yet again this week - has Shaun Pearson still got his boots handy??
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 14, 2024, 7:45pm; Reply: 60
Quoted from golfer
Green was again the only one who scored more than 5 again. Green is the only one who is determined to get stuck in to win every tackle. Green is the only one who gives his all Why can't the others try to emulate him.


He persistently gives up possession, doesn’t move off the ball and gets caught out of position. Of course he tries very hard but that’s all he is. He maximises his ability, week in, week out but he’s just not very good.
Posted by: ska face, September 14, 2024, 7:45pm; Reply: 61
Quoted from Maringer


Do you really think that the keeper could have collected either of those crosses? Absolutely no chance with the second and pretty much none with the first with all the players in front of him. If you want to blame him for being slow off his line which led to the second corner, then fair enough, but let's not make things up here.



Sorry but I just don’t think it’s acceptable that a professional keeper is allowing someone a free header 6 yards out. Maybe I’ll forgive him the first one - good ball, fair enough - but then what about the second chance 10 mins later? And then the third exact same ball into the same area…how are we allowing that to happen? It’s effectively game over after that.

I don’t expect him to catch everything but I DO expect him to effect it in that scenario - punch it, change your starting position, organise the defence differently but at the absolute minimum anticipate that the exact same thing might happen, don’t be glued to your bąstard line.

Can anyone remember the last time we were afforded a single free header, never mind three in 25 minutes, in the opposition 6-yard box?
Posted by: RonMariner, September 14, 2024, 7:47pm; Reply: 62
Averaging a point a game, below par goalkeeping options, and gifting goals to the opposition.Sounds like last season.

I know its early days but it's not looking great is it? Let's hope Tharme, Thompson and Davies return soon and firm us up in some key positions.  
Posted by: Boonsy, September 14, 2024, 7:49pm; Reply: 63
Quoted from Swansea_Mariner


Why are you spamming this balderdash we're seven out of eight seasons in league 2, what are we consolidating being a bottom  six side. I don't expect to be top of the league but I absolutely do not accept us perennially circling the bottom six places. Needs sorting.


There can be no time frame. We are simply not consolidating in league two. If you feel it’s all relegation the we are not consistent enough to be thinking otherwise
Posted by: Heisenberg, September 14, 2024, 7:51pm; Reply: 64
Quoted from RonMariner
Averaging a point a game, below par goalkeeping options, and gifting goals to the opposition.Sounds like last season.

I know its early days but it's not looking great is it? Let's hope Tharme, Thompson and Davies return soon and firm us up in some key positions.  


Those 3 are absolute dead cert starters, when fit.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 14, 2024, 7:53pm; Reply: 65
Quoted from ska face


Sorry but I just don’t think it’s acceptable that a professional keeper is allowing someone a free header 6 yards out. Maybe I’ll forgive him the first one - good ball, fair enough - but then what about the second chance 10 mins later? And then the third exact same ball into the same area…how are we allowing that to happen? It’s effectively game over after that.

I don’t expect him to catch everything but I DO expect him to effect it in that scenario - punch it, change your starting position, organise the defence differently but at the absolute minimum anticipate that the exact same thing might happen, don’t be glued to your bąstard line.

Can anyone remember the last time we were afforded a single free header, never mind three in 25 minutes, in the opposition 6-yard box?


Both corners were hit in at pace. Second one, in particular was pretty much near post. McJannet was also off the pitch at the time.
Posted by: GrimPol, September 14, 2024, 7:53pm; Reply: 66
Quoted from Alan Buckley
Teams have already worked out we have no plan B. They just let our defenders have it knowing rose was isolated so we’d have to try to play out and give the ball away.

Stands out a mile how small we are and the lack of physicality.

Gear up for plenty of excrement teams bullying us out of games. We haven’t played a decent team yet either other than Notts county. Worrying signs.


Hang on a minute AB, members on this very forum have stated that the reason we lost our first games was due to playing mainly the best teams in the league, now you say "We haven’t played a decent team yet! . Can we agree on what teams we should beat, teams it's ok to draw with, and teams which will not be embarrassing to lose to?  

You are missing a big point here folks, the players are quite good, certainly much better on average than last season. It's not them, it's the Donkey that's "leading" them that's the problem.
Posted by: BrMarin, September 14, 2024, 7:53pm; Reply: 67
Quoted from Captaincod


Why do you think they targeted him? Maybe because they knew he’s not very good !


Ok, let's just have him pass backwards to the goalkeeper for the whole match, then Hume is an excellent defender who never makes mistakes. Hume is not horrendous, Artell needs to wake up tactically
Posted by: ska face, September 14, 2024, 7:58pm; Reply: 68
Quoted from MuddyWaters


Both corners were hit in at pace. Second one, in particular was pretty much near post. McJannet was also off the pitch at the time.


Yeah I know mate I was sat there watching it. That’s what happens in professional football, people kick it hard and it goes quite fast. The aim is to stop it going in the goal. Goalkeepers can sometimes use their hands to do so.
Posted by: BirtlesHatTrick, September 14, 2024, 8:03pm; Reply: 69
Have to say, if Eastwood hadnt taken McJannett out, there’s a reasonable chance they wouldnt have scored the second. It was a howler reminiscent of the grey goalkeeper shirt/own goal under Jolley.
Posted by: TownSNAFU5, September 14, 2024, 8:06pm; Reply: 70
I was happy with Eastwood in.  But his kicking has me worried.  And please no kick it first time.

Passbacks to the keeper need to be avoided unless no other reasonable option.

We need to,pass and move at pace.  No thinking.  Ponderous buildups allow the defence to get back in place.

To concede from one corner in that manner is self-destructing.  To concede 2 goals the same way.........!!!!!

No intensity in the first half.  An improvement second half but still not enough.  Gardner should probably have come on 10 mins earlier.  We needed a goal. 2
Posted by: Captaincod, September 14, 2024, 8:18pm; Reply: 71
Quoted from BrMarin


Ok, let's just have him pass backwards to the goalkeeper for the whole match, then Hume is an excellent defender who never makes mistakes. Hume is not horrendous, Artell needs to wake up tactically


Hume in my opinion has been awful last season and this . As regards your question about Warren I don’t rate him , but to be fair I thought he was the best of a bad bunch at the back today.
You do have a point about tactics and the way we set up though. All of our full backs have looked poor and Hume has played 80 something games in league 1.  Surely they all can’t be that bad , it has to be down to the manager and the way we leave them exposed so much ?
Posted by: Alan Buckley, September 14, 2024, 8:23pm; Reply: 72
Our centre halves and full backs are all more suited to 3 at the back and wing backs.

We need to change but that would mean having a plan b. It’s a very poor looking league this season and we’re still going to be languishing round the bottom unless something changes.
Posted by: Hagrid, September 14, 2024, 8:26pm; Reply: 73
Thought warren was okay again in fairness to him. Prevented it being 3-1 with a quite incredible block
Posted by: chipsandgravy, September 14, 2024, 8:46pm; Reply: 74
The only thing I will add to today's comments is that in my opinion Barrow got there tactics bang on and Artell didn't.
Second Hume got a lot of stick but Vernam gave him no support whatsoever. He like's going forward but  doesn't always do his defensive work. Thought he hung Hume out to dry at times today.
Posted by: GollyGTFC, September 14, 2024, 8:54pm; Reply: 75
We’ve definitely made progress since last season.

It took Hurst 10 league matches to achieve our 4th league defeat last season.

Artell has smashed that and done it in just 6 matches this season.

And conceding goals too. Hurst took an excruciating 9 league matches to concede 12 league goals last term.

Artell has done it in just 6 matches this season.

Keep up the “good” work Dave!
Posted by: RonMariner, September 14, 2024, 9:03pm; Reply: 76
Quoted from GollyGTFC
We’ve definitely made progress since last season.

It took Hurst 10 league matches to achieve our 4th league defeat last season.

Artell has smashed that and done it in just 6 matches this season.

And conceding goals too. Hurst took an excruciating 9 league matches to concede 12 league goals last term.

Artell has done it in just 6 matches this season.

Keep up the “good” work Dave!


Hurst has lost five of his six league games this season so he is smashing his own record.
Posted by: smokey111, September 14, 2024, 9:46pm; Reply: 77
Quoted from GollyGTFC
We’ve definitely made progress since last season.

It took Hurst 10 league matches to achieve our 4th league defeat last season.

Artell has smashed that and done it in just 6 matches this season.

And conceding goals too. Hurst took an excruciating 9 league matches to concede 12 league goals last term.

Artell has done it in just 6 matches this season.

Keep up the “good” work Dave!


I would like to think of something witty but I am pis##d so f£^k it. Hurst's football was boring, Artell has us playing with a bit of style. So bol£^#^s.
Posted by: davmariner, September 14, 2024, 9:48pm; Reply: 78
It feels we’re not *too* far from being a reasonably decent side in my view, but there are still significant and alarming gaps/weaknesses.

Rodgers scares the living excrement out of me, and similarly the prospect of Hume 1v1 is terrifying.

Thought today Artell’s subs killed the game and any chance of getting that equaliser.

Bottom line is we can’t keep shipping multiple goals a game and expect to win matches.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, September 14, 2024, 10:07pm; Reply: 79
So home for a bit & wanted a pint before posting.

I’ll keep relatively simple, we still haven’t got the players signed or available to play in the way Artell wants us to play.

That said the players need to take some accountability for today as well as they could have done more with their legs & brains.

Today in the first half the midfield weren’t able to find space to show for the ball & move it forward.

We got in behind them enough times to be able to get an attempt on target but a mix of p1ss poor delivery or players in the box not understanding the principle of dropping off we messed it up, happens a lot that.

Don’t get me started about tempo & intensity because even when we had ok spells there wasn’t much.

There’s a lot more you could pick apart from today but it’s not worth it. I know it’s early days but once again we’re at 21st in the 4th Division again.

If fit Doug will be back next week I’d expect and it won’t be long before we’re parking principles again.

Footnote - why are players who completed a full pre season blowing out of their @rses after 70 odd minutes, fitness looks an issue.





Posted by: Gainsbro_Mariner, September 14, 2024, 10:08pm; Reply: 80
What another miserable afternoon.

The frustrating thing about days like today is it feels as if we have seen this manager, this team, this performance so many teams over the years. It’s ingrained into the club to serve up mediocrity year after year.

New manager, new players, same script. That’s the frustrating thing about being a Town fan. We take scraps even morsels of positivity but ultimately despite spending money, having no JSF and co, we still get schooled by smaller less appealing, less equipped but more well drilled teams.

In the 20 years since we got relegated into League Two

This has been our record in this division.

04/05 - 18th
05/06 - 4th
06/07 - 15th
07/08 - 16th
08/09 - 22nd
09/10 - 23rd
16/17 - 14th
17/18 - 18th
18/19 - 17th
19/20 - 15th
20/21 - 24th
22/23 - 11th
23/24 - 21st
24/25 - 21st (so far)


We are the epitome of a one step forward, two steps back club. So what do we do ? Is Artell really the man to do it ? Has he ever been.


  
Posted by: jamesgtfc, September 14, 2024, 10:11pm; Reply: 81
It's getting close to the stage of the season where the league table starts to take shape. 4 league games in the next 3 weeks. The early kick off at home to Doncaster on 5th October will give us an accurate idea of how we have started.

Fitness and the fact we seem to have a defensive gaffe or two in us every game are concerning.
Posted by: BirtlesHatTrick, September 14, 2024, 10:19pm; Reply: 82
Quoted from jamesgtfc
It's getting close to the stage of the season where the league table starts to take shape.



I’m not sure it is. Bookies had MK Dons nailed on as promotion certs. December is a reliable, but not infallible barometer.

But yes there are issues which need addressing.
Posted by: Croxton, September 14, 2024, 10:21pm; Reply: 83

No good looking forward to Thompson and Davies having any meaningful impact before Christmas. Thompson was in poor condition when he arrived last season and was way off it in preseason. Davies needs the company of good players around him working as a unit. He is not a natural athlete but he has a knack for scoring goals.
Thompson, Davies and Ainley, at their best, could do wonders for us but they are all hobbled.

After watching that tepid no show today I was struck by how we lack pace, physicality and basic passing skills. I hope Luker and Obikwu can get some game time soon to offer something different because this squad is very thin.

Artell said we didn't run round enough. True, but what did he do about it?

Both our goalkeepers kick the ball straight back to opposing central defenders. What does Croudson tell them to do?

Wilson had a few good bits of hold up play but does he really want to be here?

I'm fine with the sustainable model but we lack quality, fitness and cohesion. I'd take fourth from bottom even at this early stage.
Posted by: RichMariner, September 14, 2024, 10:24pm; Reply: 84
To me, the issue is becoming clearer:

We have good, ethical, sensible owners. They've attracted further investment.

What's more, they've invested significantly in our training facilities and BP in general.

They have a strategy and a plan. They've brought in coaches and backroom staff accordingly.

They have a method for recruitment. They have a blueprint for how they want to run the club, top to bottom.

They sought a manager who shares this view and has similar philosophies.

They've backed him in the market, based on him playing a style that'll be played through to the youth groups.

Everything that I've listed above is great, everything you'd have wanted given the state we were in by May 2021.

I think Artell has good ideas, a modern approach, he wants us to play exciting football, he's signed players to fit that system, I don't doubt this squad is good enough to be top half, I don't doubt his intelligence.

I just think that, fundamentally, he can't get his players to do what he wants them to do.

Occasionally it clicks. Then it breaks apart again.

Maybe it'll come together and we'll achieve some consistency. The caveat: more time.

I think Artell is a coach, not a manager. He can build a squad, get them training to play the way he wants to play. But on match day, they look like they don't know whether to seek instruction from him, or use their own match intelligence to solve problems. Hesitancy, muddled thinking, it's leading to errors and costing us goals. Always has.

I'm not calling for him to go by any means, although if we're 21st closer to December I think the pressure will ramp up.
Posted by: ginnywings, September 14, 2024, 10:49pm; Reply: 85
Kept my powder dry this season and sat back to see where we are at. We are too easy to score against and not bright enough in the opposition box, a fatal combination. We have conceded four times more goals than Barrow and that is the difference between the top and bottom of the league.

Barrow deserved to win today and were much better at their game plan, than we were at ours. First time we have lost to them in decades, but no complaints, they were better than us.

Think there is a universal law of football that states GTFC should never have a positive goal difference, ever.
Posted by: Viking Mariner, September 14, 2024, 10:52pm; Reply: 86
After the first half pile of rubbish they should be back in for training on Sunday.

Posted by: Hagrid, September 14, 2024, 10:54pm; Reply: 87
Quoted from ginnywings
Kept my powder dry this season and sat back to see where we are at. We are too easy to score against and not bright enough in the opposition box, a fatal combination. We have conceded four times more goals than Barrow and that is the difference between the top and bottom of the league.

Barrow deserved to win today and were much better at their game plan, than we were at ours. First time we have lost to them in decades, but no complaints, they were better than us.

Think there is a universal law of football that states GTFC should never have a positive goal difference, ever.


Nice to hear from you Ginny
Posted by: ginnywings, September 14, 2024, 10:58pm; Reply: 88
Quoted from Hagrid


Nice to hear from you Ginny


Wish it could be more positive, but hey ho, nothing much changes. New manager, new players, but weak as p1ss at the back. Mid table at best, which I would settle for right now.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 14, 2024, 11:07pm; Reply: 89
Quoted from ginnywings


Wish it could be more positive, but hey ho, nothing much changes. New manager, new players, but weak as p1ss at the back. Mid table at best, which I would settle for right now.


Welcome back. Optimism tempered…..again.
Posted by: TAGG, September 14, 2024, 11:19pm; Reply: 90
They were by far the better team and it showed why the are top 3 and we are bottom 4.
What bugs me is that we get 6/7k per home game, they get 2500 k
We can take 2k away, they take 150
They can't even fill the bench yet we can't field a team to beat them.
What the intercourse is going on at our club?
Posted by: HertsGTFC, September 14, 2024, 11:28pm; Reply: 91
Quoted from TAGG
They were by far the better team and it showed why the are top 3 and we are bottom 4.
What bugs me is that we get 6/7k per home game, they get 2500 k
We can take 2k away, they take 150
They can't even fill the bench yet we can't field a team to beat them.
What the intercourse is going on at our club?


Is this the point where someone raises the training ground at the end of the M180 as the “silver bullet” answer to our p1ss poor league performances since I don’t know when?
Posted by: TAGG, September 14, 2024, 11:34pm; Reply: 92
Quoted from HertsGTFC


Is this the point where someone raises the training ground at the end of the M180 as the “silver bullet” answer to our p1ss poor league performances since I don’t know when?


I've had a lot to drink so don't understand wot your saying.
Of to bed.
Nite nite
Posted by: moosey_club, September 15, 2024, 12:07am; Reply: 93
Quoted from heppy88
Went straight to the signal box blues and ale festival after the match.
Plenty of Town fans there to watch an amazing display of talent, passion, timing, energy, skill and showmanship. Goosebumps, hairs on the back of the neck by 3 amateur musicians, giving there all for the crowd. What those who attended BP today witnessed was so far removed from this it’s sad to be honest.


To be fair...I don't pay to see Greeny playing the harmonica lamenting the loss of his pet dog so not sure what your point is .
Posted by: Mappers, September 15, 2024, 12:10am; Reply: 94
It wasn't a great day and I was so optimistic pre kick off after a couple of decent performances , went back to spending more time in the bar so missed our goal .

Thought Khouri did well today and looks to be growing as a player .

They were a decent side and will probably be challenging for the play-offs - not as good as Notts County but not a million miles away . A more favourable matchup for us next week in Bromley who will be no were near as much a complete team as them today , but physical and will probably come to defend and make it a physical battle ; hopefully we can impose ourselves better + cut out the mistakes.

Bold move dropping Wright today and thought Eastwood did ok so it will be interesting to see  if Artell sticks with him .
Posted by: moosey_club, September 15, 2024, 12:20am; Reply: 95
Quoted from TAGG
They were by far the better team and it showed why the are top 3 and we are bottom 4.
What bugs me is that we get 6/7k per home game, they get 2500 k
We can take 2k away, they take 150
They can't even fill the bench yet we can't field a team to beat them.
What the intercourse is going on at our club?


We don't get 6/7 k home gates....today was about 5200 in the home end and the club "issued" a Chunk of them around local schools, organisations in a bid to fill the Osmand....which failed miserably.
Posted by: Mappers, September 15, 2024, 12:22am; Reply: 96
Quoted from Gainsbro_Mariner
What another miserable afternoon.

The frustrating thing about days like today is it feels as if we have seen this manager, this team, this performance so many teams over the years. It’s ingrained into the club to serve up mediocrity year after year.

New manager, new players, same script. That’s the frustrating thing about being a Town fan. We take scraps even morsels of positivity but ultimately despite spending money, having no JSF and co, we still get schooled by smaller less appealing, less equipped but more well drilled teams.

In the 20 years since we got relegated into League Two

This has been our record in this division.

04/05 - 18th
05/06 - 4th
06/07 - 15th
07/08 - 16th
08/09 - 22nd
09/10 - 23rd
16/17 - 14th
17/18 - 18th
18/19 - 17th
19/20 - 15th
20/21 - 24th
22/23 - 11th
23/24 - 21st
24/25 - 21st (so far)


We are the epitome of a one step forward, two steps back club. So what do we do ? Is Artell really the man to do it ? Has he ever been.


  


Your historical positions show no manager has been able to do it , only Slade has in league 2 probably with a bigger playing budget than we have now at least in comparison to what others are throwing at it .

Like I have said on many occasions I am very much on the fence with Artell , but he has grown on me somewhat this season and he needs time to breath , implement 'the model' and see where that goes - it's pointless wanting him out , or thinking he's the second coming of Pep after contradicting performances and results imo just let him get on with it , with his own players and make a judgement later in the season .

I do think we will do a bit better this season but it's going to be very much up and down and whether my definition of better will be enough (I think we will finish between 12th & 16th probably) for the fanbase is for everyone else to judge really - I suppose it will maybe depend on if people see seeds of something better coming in the future rather than just scrambling to stay up once more ; in fairness to Artell he did make consistent improvements at Crewe over 3 or 4 years and it was very much linear in terms of upward trajectory - the hope is he can do that here and that wasn't more because of Crewe's excellent youth setup rather than partly Artells good management .
Posted by: Mappers, September 15, 2024, 12:40am; Reply: 97
Quoted from moosey_club


We don't get 6/7 k home gates....today was about 5200 in the home end and the club "issued" a Chunk of them around local schools, organisations in a bid to fill the Osmand....which failed miserably.


Tbf we did sell around 7k tickets for most home games the back half of last season which I thought was impressive considering how we were doing .

It did look a bit emptier today , I think gates have dropped off slightly down to last season and the fans need a little success  and consistent performances in truth to start coming back onside in those previously mentioned numbers- I imagine beimg pumped 4,5 6 on your home turf , humiliated and then told we were the better team didn't help in that regard.
Posted by: Mariner93er, September 15, 2024, 1:05am; Reply: 98
It's getting harder to defend Artell. There's no doubt we've made some improvements on last season but ultimately the end result is the same again - conceding far too many goals, losing too many games and generally becoming a chore to watch.

Felt sorry for the defence today as they were playing with three midfield ghosts in front of them. I think Green epitomises where we're at as a club. Consistently one of our better players this season which is based completely on endeavour and basically no skill - the guy gives the ball away for fun.

I get why, as a club, we've committed to a particular playing style but it feels like we've punted for the most difficult to implement at this level. And even if at some point, in what is likely to be the distant future, it clicks and we got promoted, it will be so hard to implement at league one level too, where teams are throwing millions at it.

I'm just sick of watching us slowly get drawn into a relegation scrap and it feels like we're playing with relegation fire once again.
Posted by: Mappers, September 15, 2024, 1:36am; Reply: 99
Quoted from Mariner93er
It's getting harder to defend Artell. There's no doubt we've made some improvements on last season but ultimately the end result is the same again - conceding far too many goals, losing too many games and generally becoming a chore to watch.

Felt sorry for the defence today as they were playing with three midfield ghosts in front of them. I think Green epitomises where we're at as a club. Consistently one of our better players this season which is based completely on endeavour and basically no skill - the guy gives the ball away for fun.

I get why, as a club, we've committed to a particular playing style but it feels like we've punted for the most difficult to implement at this level. And even if at some point, in what is likely to be the distant future, it clicks and we got promoted, it will be so hard to implement at league one level too, where teams are throwing millions at it.

I'm just sick of watching us slowly get drawn into a relegation scrap and it feels like we're playing with relegation fire once again.


I do know what you mean , but I think now we have to stick with it - there is no plan B and I suspect nor the players to play any other way than plan A .

In Artell's/the players defence we have probably played 3 out of 6 who will be top 7 or thereabouts so no easy  start but already looking for games against teams I suspect will be in 'our area' (bottom half ) shows how limited my own ambition is in terms of where I think we should be  competing ; probably a mirror of 20 years systemic failure - the fans have deserved better for a long time and we live in hope that eventually sometime soon this ship will turn around .
Posted by: Mayaman, September 15, 2024, 3:25am; Reply: 100
Quoted from moosey_club


To be fair...I don't pay to see Greeny playing the harmonica lamenting the loss of his pet dog so not sure what your point is .


That's country music not blues, isn't it.
Posted by: Mayaman, September 15, 2024, 3:40am; Reply: 101
Quoted from mimma
For what it's worth, I thought Greeny had a good game. Town POTM by a country mile.


He was a bit absent in the first half then scored and grew into the game in the second half.  He gets a lot of stick for his technical ability on here but he's been the standout player in the last few games, which is a worry.  No disrespect to him, at least he has some passion.
Posted by: DB, September 15, 2024, 5:50am; Reply: 102
Quoted from ginnywings
Kept my powder dry this season and sat back to see where we are at. We are too easy to score against and not bright enough in the opposition box, a fatal combination. We have conceded four times more goals than Barrow and that is the difference between the top and bottom of the league.

Barrow deserved to win today and were much better at their game plan, than we were at ours. First time we have lost to them in decades, but no complaints, they were better than us.

Think there is a universal law of football that states GTFC should never have a positive goal difference, ever.


Welcome back.

Posted by: dapperz fun pub, September 15, 2024, 6:26am; Reply: 103
Quoted from Mayaman


He was a bit absent in the first half then scored and grew into the game in the second half.  He gets a lot of stick for his technical ability on here but he's been the standout player in the last few games, which is a worry.  No disrespect to him, at least he has some passion.


One of the few players yesterday who wasn’t bullied by them and put in a shift
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 15, 2024, 7:38am; Reply: 104
Quoted from dapperz fun pub


One of the few players yesterday who wasn’t bullied by them and put in a shift


It was too easy to send two to press McEachran because they realised he’s our best player and the rest of our midfield isn’t much. Attitude wise, I get what you say about Green but he coughed up possession so easily yesterday.
Posted by: Brummie Codfather, September 15, 2024, 7:43am; Reply: 105
First home game of the season for me, really wasn’t worth the 8 hour round trip!

There were some good points, Khouri showed some flashes of the player he’s developing into, which is much more than the midfield destroyer I thought he’d be.  When our wingers run at players they terrify them.  McJannatt and McEcheran look quality additions.

The downsides for me:  we currently seem to have to keepers that the team don’t trust (rightly based on the evidence!) and that breathes nervousness through the whole team.
Rodgers has absolutely no bravery on the ball, just stands on it rather than using the space in front of him to create an angle, the comparison to their cb Vassell was stark.

We’re too rigid tactically for me, Hume (who I think is a good player) has obviously been told to play inside to his midfielder, Barrow blocked that and it left him only the option to go back - it makes us predictable- same for Warren.  The other area is we were overrun in midfield, Barrow did their homework and put 2 on McEcheran, why then didn’t we adapt by dropping a second midfielder in with him to widen our options, instead of pushing Green and Khouri further forward!

Side note on Green, my mate described him as Forrest Gump, he just keeps running in straight lines.  He’s been effective and he gives it his all but a technical wizard the lad aint!
Posted by: dapperz fun pub, September 15, 2024, 7:44am; Reply: 106
Quoted from MuddyWaters


It was too easy to send two to press McEachran because they realised he’s our best player and the rest of our midfield isn’t much. Attitude wise, I get what you say about Green but he coughed up possession so easily yesterday.


If we’re ever to challenge the top end of the table players like Green won’t be in our team but at least he’s giving it a go working hard and trying.  
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 15, 2024, 7:59am; Reply: 107
Quoted from dapperz fun pub


If we’re ever to challenge the top end of the table players like Green won’t be in our team but at least he’s giving it a go working hard and trying.  


I think we can agree on that.
Posted by: Running like emson, September 15, 2024, 8:57am; Reply: 108
God, you lot are boring. Really boring
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, September 15, 2024, 8:59am; Reply: 109
I was member a hoop after the Bradford game, as I thought we were brilliant. Those who went to Chesterfield said we played well, and would win more than we lose.

I was half expecting a bit of a negative display yesterday after last week, but wasn't expecting such a poor first half.

It just shows how important tactics are; Bradford allowed us to play the game we want to play, but Barrow stopped us from the kick off and imposed their game on us instead.

When this happens again, we can't just keep passing it slowly between the back 4 and keeper hoping the opposition will surrender due to boredom, we need midfielders coming short to get the ball and give them something to worry about.

A really poor display compounded by players and coaches not being flexible enough to counteract the opposition without resorting to hoofing it.

I share the frustration of other fans that we haven't seen any progression in 20 odd years whilst smaller clubs have relative success but we are only really at the start of the Artell era and he will be given every chance by the owners.

Posted by: Ruuger, September 15, 2024, 9:43am; Reply: 110
Quoted from GrimPol


Hang on a minute AB, members on this very forum have stated that the reason we lost our first games was due to playing mainly the best teams in the league, now you say "We haven’t played a decent team yet! . Can we agree on what teams we should beat, teams it's ok to draw with, and teams which will not be embarrassing to lose to?  

You are missing a big point here folks, the players are quite good, certainly much better on average than last season. It's not them, it's the Donkey that's "leading" them that's the problem.


Here you go again, blaming DA!  Once the players cross that line onto the pitch, there is not a lot that DA can do.  Is he responsible for bad passes, is he responsible for bad decisions by players, he can try to influence play from the touchline, but again, it's down to the players to get the basics right.  He can also make substitutions, but again, once they cross the line, it's down to them to carry out his instructions and do the basics right.

In my opinion, we were very poor, there was a distinct lack of urgency through out the team, several players gave the ball away far too often and we hardly put a decent move together all game.  

Like others, I was disappointed in Rodgers, particularly towards the end of the match when he slowly ambled up the pitch with the ball at his feet, as if we were winning 6-0!  Ok, so if he had no one to pass to, he had plenty of space to run in to and therefore committing one of the opposition to try and stop him, that should leave a player free for the pass.

We just didn't look anything like the team who played in the last few matches and the players need to up their game if we want to get away from the bottom of the table.



Posted by: Ruuger, September 15, 2024, 9:53am; Reply: 111
Quoted from TAGG
They were by far the better team and it showed why the are top 3 and we are bottom 4.
What bugs me is that we get 6/7k per home game, they get 2500 k
We can take 2k away, they take 150
They can't even fill the bench yet we can't field a team to beat them.
What the intercourse is going on at our club?


I don't think attendance comparisons makes any difference to a result, on a Saturday afternoon!    You want an example, Liverpool 0-1 Notts Forest 1, yesterday!

Posted by: dapperz fun pub, September 15, 2024, 10:28am; Reply: 112
Quoted from Ruuger


I don't think attendance comparisons makes any difference to a result, on a Saturday afternoon!    You want an example, Liverpool 0-1 Notts Forest 1, yesterday!



Sometimes that happens but I’m willing to bet you a thousand pounds ( I haven’t got a thousand pounds make it ten )Liverpool finish higher in the table than forest and I genuinely can’t see us finishing higher than barrow  I saw enough in them to think top ten for them
Posted by: Hagrid, September 15, 2024, 10:30am; Reply: 113
Quoted from Ruuger


Here you go again, blaming DA!  Once the players cross that line onto the pitch, there is not a lot that DA can do.  Is he responsible for bad passes, is he responsible for bad decisions by players, he can try to influence play from the touchline, but again, it's down to the players to get the basics right.  He can also make substitutions, but again, once they cross the line, it's down to them to carry out his instructions and do the basics right.

In my opinion, we were very poor, there was a distinct lack of urgency through out the team, several players gave the ball away far too often and we hardly put a decent move together all game.  

Like others, I was disappointed in Rodgers, particularly towards the end of the match when he slowly ambled up the pitch with the ball at his feet, as if we were winning 6-0!  Ok, so if he had no one to pass to, he had plenty of space to run in to and therefore committing one of the opposition to try and stop him, that should leave a player free for the pass.

We just didn't look anything like the team who played in the last few matches and the players need to up their game if we want to get away from the bottom of the table.






You’re quite right in that players have their own responsibility, but Artell has us playing 1 way and we never seem to have a plan B, and that does fall on him. I never see us being reactionary or changing the way we play once a team susses out what we are trying to do it
Posted by: diehardmariner, September 15, 2024, 10:37am; Reply: 114
Defensive errors and lapses are what's costing us. It's that simple.

Even accounting for the in-game frustration with the defence passing to themselves (strong argument that it doesn't happen if we don't concede stupid goals and give Barrow the option to hold their lines) we played OK for decent periods. Start of the second half especially we knocked it around well but we just didn't take advantage. Certainly had enough opportunities to win that game.

Don't disagree with anything said about defence and midfield. But I'll add that I don't think Rose or Wilson did enough influence the game. Absolutely not ignoring the fact they were isolated, but their movement was very limited.
Posted by: RonMariner, September 15, 2024, 10:50am; Reply: 115
Quoted from Gainsbro_Mariner

In the 20 years since we got relegated into League Two

This has been our record in this division.

04/05 - 18th
05/06 - 4th
06/07 - 15th
07/08 - 16th
08/09 - 22nd
09/10 - 23rd
16/17 - 14th
17/18 - 18th
18/19 - 17th
19/20 - 15th
20/21 - 24th
22/23 - 11th
23/24 - 21st
24/25 - 21st (so far)


Very sobering to see that list. Many of us on this board were lucky enough to see the Town teams of the eighties and nineties that spent most of their time in what is now The Championship. Beating the likes of Chelsea, Newcastle, Wolves, and Man City in league games. But those days are over 20 years in the past.

I am beginning to think that our generation are now in a similar position to older fans in the sixties. Watching a struggling basement division club while remembering the days when we were in the top flight and competing in FA Cup semi finals.

We certainly punched above our weight in the eighties and nineties, but remembering those times makes it doubly depressing to find ourselves now unable to compete with the likes of Barrow. It's a matter of expectations. Given the way the game has changed, and the insane amounts of money required to be competitive even at L1 level, I don't think we will see Town regularly in The Championship any time soon, if ever. I am coming round to the conclusion that we are now, at best, a mid L1 club.

On the plus side that does mean that we can be promotion candidates in L2 if we get our act together. That is about as far as my optimism goes at the moment.      
Posted by: Maringer, September 15, 2024, 11:51am; Reply: 116
The limitations of our options up front are a bit of an issue. Rose is a great player, but hasn't quite reached his form of last season yet (off the ball) and our crossing into the box when we've got in behind them hasn't been nearly good enough to present him with enough chances. Wilson is potentially a bit more of a goal threat, but is rarely able to hold up the ball or link up play. Gardner is very young indeed and isn't likely to be ready to play as a lone striker for some time. I'm not sure he even touched the ball after coming on yesterday even though he gets stuck out wide? Obikwu will add a bit more size and pace and can hopefully develop from the player we saw last season. Ultimately, we're short an experienced striker.

We've got a couple of good wingers in Vernam and JDS, but nobody to really replace them off the bench until Luker is fit. Barrington looks extremely lightweight and hasn't shown much in his brief appearances. As an example, their No. 22 who started was on loan from Leicester and he was quick and a powerful runner. Barrington, our equivalent Premier League loanee, is an ephemeral presence who kept standing in the wrong place yesterday and rarely got involved. Ainley keeps getting bunged out wide but usually plays centrally, I think? Let's hope Luker can add a bit more.

The central midfielders look tired because we've only really been able to sub them later in the game because of the injuries to our two key midfielders. They've generally done OK, but the opposition have been able to unload a stronger bench than we can currently manage, so it's probably no surprise we've not finished games strongly, even when chasing a goal.

Other than yesterday in the first half, especially, I don't think we've actually defended all that badly as a team. A lot of the goals conceded have come from individual errors/weaknesses but these obviously need to be cut out.

Wright has been a big disappointment, but Eastwood wasn't great yesterday when he came back in. The member up which led to their needless second corner from which they scored, and he only parried a couple of shots where he should probably have done better, though neither led to a goal. He's better with the ball at his feet than Wright, but not a great deal.

Though yesterday was really poor, I think our performances have deserved a few more points than we've got so I'm not too worried, providing we can cut down on the individual errors and start making more of our pretty good attacking play. Even yesterday, when we were very poor for much of the game, we should have scored more than one with all the times we played our way in behind them down the wings.
Posted by: TownSNAFU5, September 15, 2024, 12:03pm; Reply: 117
Back to the game - briefly - literally.  The best moment was Khouri clearing off the line with no margin for error. X
Posted by: Maringer, September 15, 2024, 12:12pm; Reply: 118
What was even more impressive was the way in which he disguised himself as Warren before making the block.  :P
Posted by: Yarborough Vaults, September 15, 2024, 12:29pm; Reply: 119
Quoted from TownSNAFU5
Back to the game - briefly - literally.  The best moment was Khouri clearing off the line with no margin for error. X


That was Warren?

I'm a bit alarmed by the amount of diving we're doing at the moment. If we focused on proper things, we may do better.
Posted by: jimgtfc, September 15, 2024, 12:35pm; Reply: 120
Quoted from Maringer
Wilson is potentially a bit more of a goal threat, but is rarely able to hold up the ball or link up play.


Personally, I think this is a part of Wilson’s game that has improved a lot during his time here and is an underrated side to his game. He did more in the 10 minutes after he came on yesterday, than Rose did. He starts for me.
Posted by: forza ivano, September 15, 2024, 1:17pm; Reply: 121
Can't access the video abroad. What did Artell have to say? Please don't tell me that he claimed we should've been 5 up n dominated the whole game?
Posted by: HertsGTFC, September 15, 2024, 1:32pm; Reply: 122
Quoted from jimgtfc


Personally, I think this is a part of Wilson’s game that has improved a lot during his time here and is an underrated side to his game. He did more in the 10 minutes after he came on yesterday, than Rose did. He starts for me.


Hard to start someone ahead of the captain who scored our only goal but we are missing someone with true ability behind Rose, Chas has the 10 shirt this season but he’s effectively a left winger. I get your view on this.
Posted by: GrimPol, September 15, 2024, 1:53pm; Reply: 123
Quoted from Ruuger


Here you go again, blaming DA!  Once the players cross that line onto the pitch, there is not a lot that DA can do.  Is he responsible for bad passes, is he responsible for bad decisions by players, he can try to influence play from the touchline, but again, it's down to the players to get the basics right.  He can also make substitutions, but again, once they cross the line, it's down to them to carry out his instructions and do the basics right.

In my opinion, we were very poor, there was a distinct lack of urgency through out the team, several players gave the ball away far too often and we hardly put a decent move together all game.  

Like others, I was disappointed in Rodgers, particularly towards the end of the match when he slowly ambled up the pitch with the ball at his feet, as if we were winning 6-0!  Ok, so if he had no one to pass to, he had plenty of space to run in to and therefore committing one of the opposition to try and stop him, that should leave a player free for the pass.

We just didn't look anything like the team who played in the last few matches and the players need to up their game if we want to get away from the bottom of the table.


Just when life was starting to get boring, up pops Ruuger to brighten up the day.
What is the point of a Head Coach/Manager? Surely you don't think his full-time job is to do pre-match interviews and after-match analysis?  He's damn good at them, he certainly can Talk the Talk.
But the minor part of his job, the recruitment and training, how is that doing? How good is he doing the Walk?
Now you have pointed out that he cannot be responsible for players bad passes, nor their decisions on/off the ball, but he is in a collective way.
Saturday's match we had 63% possession and 3 shots on target. Or put in another way every 30mins we kicked the ball at their goal, yet had the ball at our feet for 56 mins. That DA's doing where we keep the ball, but not shoot. He owns that, as he's taught them the first bit, but not the subsequent bits.
But you don't think its his fault/problem, even when DA recruited and trained the players. Perhaps we should do what the Romans did after losing a battle which is Decimation. That is they picked every tenth man and his colleagues put him to death. That focused the army in the next battle, and kept the General alive, seeing as he was the paymaster. We could have two categories at the end of a match, MOM where he gets a bottle of Bubbly, and worst MOM, where he gets dragged onto the field and Mighty Mariner beats him. Not sure how that would keep morale up, but would send the crowd home happier.
It's DA's gig, his problem, his fault. He best pulls his finger out before we need to start praying Morecambe and Accrington don't start changing managers and get some kind of bounce.
On a positive note, these players collectively are much better than last season, just not used properly.   UTM


Posted by: Maringer, September 15, 2024, 2:17pm; Reply: 124
Quoted from forza ivano
Can't access the video abroad. What did Artell have to say? Please don't tell me that he claimed we should've been 5 up n dominated the whole game?


Nope. He said we were crap in the first half, a bit better in the second. Criticism for failing to defend the corners properly and for not running around enough, which is fair.
Posted by: Maringer, September 15, 2024, 2:31pm; Reply: 125
Quoted from jimgtfc


Personally, I think this is a part of Wilson’s game that has improved a lot during his time here and is an underrated side to his game. He did more in the 10 minutes after he came on yesterday, than Rose did. He starts for me.


I agree he's improved in that regard, but he still doesn't have the anticipation of Rose and you'll rarely see him even affect the defender in aerial challenges. Rose didn't have a good game yesterday, but the service into him was absolutely woeful - too many aimless punts up into the air and he's rarely going to win an aerial duel where he's almost static as the ball heads towards him and the defender is a few inches taller.

If you start with Wilson, you've got to keep the ball on the ground and play it directly into his feet. He's good at holding off the defender in such situations. If he has to move for it too much, he rarely retains possession.

Whoever plays up front, they need more support. We had the unusual situation yesterday where the midfield were too deep to support Rose, yet somehow still too far away to receive the ball from the defenders!
Posted by: Mariner93er, September 15, 2024, 2:34pm; Reply: 126
As an aside, I thought the ref had a good game yesterday. Didn't give fouls for every piece of contact and was at least consistent.
Posted by: LocalLadGTFC, September 15, 2024, 3:05pm; Reply: 127
The way they set up should of been no surprise to us, they battered us here last season as well but we somehow won the game. Clemence has carried on from the good work of Wild and they're a well drilled side and to a man every single player knew he role.
Posted by: grimsby pete, September 15, 2024, 3:37pm; Reply: 128
It still baffles me what we are trying to do.

Any team playing us look at our recent games and learn so much about us.

We never pick a man at free kick or corners and unmarked players have a simple chance to put it in our net.

Passing out from the back is ok if you pass and move but we are not good at either.

We have got so many decent players not playing to their ability ,why is that ?

Hurst was boring but we have got worse since he left.

Everything since Fenty. left have been so much better but the football is still the same or worse.

Answers on a postcard please addressed to Blundell Park.
Posted by: HerveJosse, September 15, 2024, 3:52pm; Reply: 129
As I have said before for a team who do their homework and play a high press against our passing along the back four we are so easy to beat.
The occasional opposition who don’t do this either because they think they are too good to bother about us or who just don’t want to change the way they play eg Bradford present an opportunity for us to think we are a reasonable side.
I can’t see how we get out of this pattern under Artell unless we switch to a back 5 again which in itself would be an admission of failure for him
Posted by: DB, September 15, 2024, 4:03pm; Reply: 130
[quote=140821]As I have said before for a team who do their homework and play a high press against our passing along the back four we are so easy to beat.
The occasional opposition who don’t do this either because they think they are too good to bother about us or who just don’t want to change the way they play eg Bradford present an opportunity for us to think we are a reasonable side.
I can’t see how we get out of this pattern under Artell unless we switch to a back 5 again which in itself would be an admission of failure for him[/quote]

In which case he cold do the honourable thing and resign, thus not costing the club £££££££££££SSS in a payoff.

Posted by: Maringer, September 15, 2024, 4:59pm; Reply: 131
Or, perhaps, the teams that didn't bother with a high press against us didn't do so because they thought they were too good, but simply don't ever try and play that way? The idea that 4th division teams change their entire style of play from game to game is just a nonsense. They aren't good enough to do so. Some teams sit deep and try to play on the break, others try to press. Most are between the two.

We played poorly yesterday and lost following some defensive errors, but some are losing their minds about it. It's not sensible to go from praising the team for some good attacking play one minute (or begrudgingly admitting they did OK), to slating them the next following what everybody agrees was a poor performance.

How are we going to do better? Well, stop making individual errors and defending poorly at corners and put some decent crosses in yourself when you play your way in behind the opposition defence. Pretty simple, really. Let's hope we can do it. I've not seen anything to indicate we can't, especially when the injured players come back into the team.
Posted by: Mayaman, September 15, 2024, 5:53pm; Reply: 132
Quoted from TownSNAFU5
Back to the game - briefly - literally.  The best moment was Khouri clearing off the line with no margin for error. X


Wasn't it Warren?
Posted by: jimgtfc, September 15, 2024, 6:57pm; Reply: 133
Quoted from HerveJosse
As I have said before for a team who do their homework and play a high press against our passing along the back four we are so easy to beat.


Barrow didn’t play a high press though
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 15, 2024, 7:22pm; Reply: 134
Quoted from jimgtfc


Barrow didn’t play a high press though


They did first half.
Posted by: GollyGTFC, September 15, 2024, 8:18pm; Reply: 135
Quoted from jimgtfc


Barrow didn’t play a high press though


They did until they were 2-0 up and then went into game management mode.
Posted by: DaleH, September 16, 2024, 6:10am; Reply: 136
I think Town are in trouble this season. And when a neighbour of the management/coaching team allegedly tells a neighbour he’s concerned about the squad, that tells me enough to be concerned too.

That period of the jury being out regarding the managerial appointment is well and truly over for me. I don’t rate him, and I think we may well be back in the market for a replacement come Christmas, if not earlier.

Worrying times
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 16, 2024, 7:09am; Reply: 137
Quoted from DaleH
I think Town are in trouble this season. And when a neighbour of the management/coaching team allegedly tells a neighbour he’s concerned about the squad, that tells me enough to be concerned too.

That period of the jury being out regarding the managerial appointment is well and truly over for me. I don’t rate him, and I think we may well be back in the market for a replacement come Christmas, if not earlier.

Worrying times


I'm still undecided - the football is, in general, more pleasing on the eye but we just seem very one dimensional and incapable of keeping a clean sheet. The injuries haven't helped (an understatement I know) so I'm still on the fence for now.
Posted by: Maringer, September 16, 2024, 8:27am; Reply: 138
Quoted from DaleH
I think Town are in trouble this season. And when a neighbour of the management/coaching team allegedly tells a neighbour he’s concerned about the squad, that tells me enough to be concerned too.


Sounds like bullshit to me.
Posted by: benny1618, September 16, 2024, 8:36am; Reply: 139
Only watched on TV and didn’t see the game as poor as most in here. No doubt that the two goals were poor and much work to do there. Some good passing and movement let down at times by the final ball. Big worry for me watching was the apparent lack of fitness and strength. Lots seemed out on their feet in the latter stages and throughout the game too many players knocked off the ball loosing possession due to the physical approach taken by Barrow.

All things that can be worked on at training.
Posted by: Mappers, September 16, 2024, 8:48am; Reply: 140
Quoted from MuddyWaters


I'm still undecided - the football is, in general, more pleasing on the eye but we just seem very one dimensional and incapable of keeping a clean sheet. The injuries haven't helped (an understatement I know) so I'm still on the fence for now.


I want it to work badly with Artell , and hope to get off the fence in the right direction .

But people who have their mind made up already while  judging his whole spell here so far are not completely unjustified  imo ; without the caveats of not having his own players first time out  and 'the project' I really struggle to see many (if any) manager that would survive at a touch over 1 ppg over 30-40 games or whatever it is now - in any other league barring 1 with 2 relegation places that's relegation certainty pretty much and we/he are fortunate league 2 has only the 2 spots .


I had the conversation with one of the regulars in the bar on Saturday who has been an  ardent Artell outer from the outset really - i said 'he needs more time ' but his response was ' you(me) would give him 100 games and we will be NLN still trying to deliver the project , so will those two in charge ' .

It got me thinking and him after his pi*s taking out of me which seems regular and we came to the consensus that 15- 20 games is about the time to make judgement with his own players and if we are on 1ppg or lower we should probably look at changing it - we both agreed it probably won't happen whatever though ; feel like this appointment is make or break for the lads in charge and just hope it's the right one .
Posted by: Watch and Shoot, September 16, 2024, 9:15am; Reply: 141
Quoted from Mappers


I want it to work badly with Artell , and hope to get off the fence in the right direction .

But people who have their mind made up already while  judging his whole spell here so far are not completely unjustified  imo ; without the caveats of not having his own players first time out  and 'the project' I really struggle to see many (if any) manager that would survive at a touch over 1 ppg over 30-40 games or whatever it is now - in any other league barring 1 with 2 relegation places that's relegation certainty pretty much and we/he are fortunate league 2 has only the 2 spots .


I had the conversation with one of the regulars in the bar on Saturday who has been an  ardent Artell outer from the outset really - i said 'he needs more time ' but his response was ' you(me) would give him 100 games and we will be NLN still trying to deliver the project , so will those two in charge ' .

It got me thinking and him after his pi*s taking out of me which seems regular and we came to the consensus that 15- 20 games is about the time to make judgement with his own players and if we are on 1ppg or lower we should probably look at changing it - we both agreed it probably won't happen whatever though ; feel like this appointment is make or break for the lads in charge and just hope it's the right one .


I sit somewhere similar - although my wanting it to work falls on the shoulders of any man who becomes our manager.  Are we better than last year - yeah - are we good enough at the moment - no.

Eastwood is no better/no worse than Wright
Hume was not as bad as being made out he was shafted by others but not his best game
Warren - looked ok
McJannet - poor
Rodgers - Even Poorer
Green - good header runs around with the ball (not under control)
Khouri - just ok
McCreachan - ok just
Vernam - fine going forward liability for Hume and defending
Jason - as before
Rose - he just doesnt look fit

It hurt watching on Saturday - I try not to post over a weekend so I can reflect.

I always felt that 434 WDL after 10 games would be my minimum for progress............................
Posted by: AncientExiledMariner, September 16, 2024, 9:25am; Reply: 142
This whole 1 ppg analysis is weak and ignores how poor we were and how poor the squad was when he came in.

He's yet to play his CB pairing (Tharme and McJannet), and his midfield (Davies, Thompson, McEacren). The argument about it being his team only counts when he can actually put them out on the pitch. He's still having to pair them with Hurst players (Rodgers) or project/backup/youth players (Green / Khouri).

He kept us up last year with Hurst's squad. It's time to give him time to get his squad out. Before anyone says buy he didn't have a backup DM or striker. He's still stuck with Wilson on the wage bill and elected to give Khouri a chance. The latter could very well pay off for us.

We just need to relax and give it time. There are no silver bullets when it comes to complete squad overhauls.
Posted by: Theimperialcoroner, September 16, 2024, 9:34am; Reply: 143
We lost on Saturday because we couldn’t defend two corners. I’ve only seen the second one again so can’t go into too much detail on the first apart from how the hell are we letting players have a free header like that?
The second was all down to Eastwood. So very sloppy to not come and collect a ball that was his in the first place, injuring McJannet in the process. He has to be in control of those positions and he simply wasn’t. Then with McJannet off the pitch he doesn’t come and at least punch the corner in his six yard box. At this level that’s not good enough.
So then we are two goals down and chasing it. A great move for our goal that we had been probing at for a few minutes prior. Then a decent start to the second half with us being a few inches from an equaliser.
Doom and gloom around conceding soft goals but not around effort and trying to do the right thing. The reason Artell is here is because Hurst style percentage football has a ceiling for our resources. We have to try and be different. This is something Barrow do extremely well from an alternative approach with their smaller squad and training away. The second part of that isn’t for us but perhaps the first is worth considering. You have to pick resilient players who are perhaps prepared to play at a lower level than their skill. We are looking for some diamonds in the mud to make us better eg McEchran, McJannet and JDS. Longer term we may be right but it also might be bumpy along the way.
Posted by: Ruuger, September 16, 2024, 9:41am; Reply: 144
Quoted from dapperz fun pub


Sometimes that happens but I’m willing to bet you a thousand pounds ( I haven’t got a thousand pounds make it ten )Liverpool finish higher in the table than forest and I genuinely can’t see us finishing higher than barrow  I saw enough in them to think top ten for them


I 100% agree in that scenario.

Posted by: Ruuger, September 16, 2024, 9:48am; Reply: 145
Quoted from GrimPol


Just when life was starting to get boring, up pops Ruuger to brighten up the day.
What is the point of a Head Coach/Manager? Surely you don't think his full-time job is to do pre-match interviews and after-match analysis?  He's damn good at them, he certainly can Talk the Talk.
But the minor part of his job, the recruitment and training, how is that doing? How good is he doing the Walk?
Now you have pointed out that he cannot be responsible for players bad passes, nor their decisions on/off the ball, but he is in a collective way.
Saturday's match we had 63% possession and 3 shots on target. Or put in another way every 30mins we kicked the ball at their goal, yet had the ball at our feet for 56 mins. That DA's doing where we keep the ball, but not shoot. He owns that, as he's taught them the first bit, but not the subsequent bits.
But you don't think its his fault/problem, even when DA recruited and trained the players. Perhaps we should do what the Romans did after losing a battle which is Decimation. That is they picked every tenth man and his colleagues put him to death. That focused the army in the next battle, and kept the General alive, seeing as he was the paymaster. We could have two categories at the end of a match, MOM where he gets a bottle of Bubbly, and worst MOM, where he gets dragged onto the field and Mighty Mariner beats him. Not sure how that would keep morale up, but would send the crowd home happier.
It's DA's gig, his problem, his fault. He best pulls his finger out before we need to start praying Morecambe and Accrington don't start changing managers and get some kind of bounce.
On a positive note, these players collectively are much better than last season, just not used properly.   UTM




What a load of blah, blah, blah, I didn't even finish reading it as it was so blah, blah!

Posted by: Ruuger, September 16, 2024, 9:50am; Reply: 146
Quoted from grimsby pete
It still baffles me what we are trying to do.

Any team playing us look at our recent games and learn so much about us.

We never pick a man at free kick or corners and unmarked players have a simple chance to put it in our net.

Passing out from the back is ok if you pass and move but we are not good at either.

We have got so many decent players not playing to their ability ,why is that ?

Hurst was boring but we have got worse since he left.

Everything since Fenty. left have been so much better but the football is still the same or worse.

Answers on a postcard please addressed to Blundell Park.


Disagree with that bit.

Posted by: jamesgtfc, September 16, 2024, 10:01am; Reply: 147
Quoted from Ruuger


Disagree with that bit.



Let's see how it goes over the next few weeks.

Here are some stats on our start to the last 2 seasons:

24-25 P6 W2 D0 L4  GF8 GA12 6pts
23-24 P6 W2 D3 L1 GF8 GA5  9pts

Our form went downhill soon after this last season, so it will make interesting reading over the next few weeks. What does seem apparent, is that Artell's teams concede a lot of goals, but we aren't scoring more which is a worry at the moment.

In terms of the league table, which is how success will be judged come May, we are currently worse than at this point last season.
Posted by: sam gy, September 16, 2024, 10:25am; Reply: 148
My main issue at the moment is our total lack of squad depth and also experience.

We’re completely reliant on Rose, to the point we’ve probably rushed him back a bit and we have no other decent options. Don’t get me wrong, I love the bloke but we’re over reliant on him and don’t trust anyone else….he’s one of our best players and has been great for us, but is he so good that we have to pin all hope on him?

Take a look at Barrow - they start with Garner up top, and just casually have Telford AND Acquah on the bench. Both players that our fans have been clamouring to sign at various points over the last few seasons.

We’re desperate for some experience in CM too. Hopefully Thompson is back soon.
Posted by: Zmariner, September 16, 2024, 10:52am; Reply: 149
Quoted from sam gy
My main issue at the moment is our total lack of squad depth and also experience.

We’re completely reliant on Rose, to the point we’ve probably rushed him back a bit and we have no other decent options. Don’t get me wrong, I love the bloke but we’re over reliant on him and don’t trust anyone else….he’s one of our best players and has been great for us, but is he so good that we have to pin all hope on him?

Take a look at Barrow - they start with Garner up top, and just casually have Telford AND Acquah on the bench. Both players that our fans have been clamouring to sign at various points over the last few seasons.

We’re desperate for some experience in CM too. Hopefully Thompson is back soon.


Completely agree with this, our bench is just not the same. I expected us to sign another central defender and was disappointed that we did not. I am not Rodger’s biggest fan. Hume has been ok but on Saturday I could not bare to look when he was faced up with their winger. I would get Tharme In as soon as possible and possibly go 5:3:2 And get some points on the board. Our forward line is not good enough to score a lot of goals and so I would go for a much more defensive set up. The desire to play good Football could easily end up costing Artell his job as for a lot of us, the result is way more important than the style. He appears to be a smart guy but the table does not lie and gates will fall and given how pathetic our defence has been in these first few games I would be looking at any method to make it more solid. I would add that this midfield does not help the defence and you see far too many two against one situations.
Also  when pressed hard we are very easy to play against , time to get pragmatic or Artell is in danger as he does not have too much goodwill from last season. Utm
Posted by: Maringer, September 16, 2024, 11:31am; Reply: 150
For the centre-backs, I seem to think it was said that both Warren and Cass can play in the middle if required. I presume that is why Artell has gone for 4 full-backs and just 3 centre-backs.
Posted by: nightrider, September 16, 2024, 11:39am; Reply: 151
They talk about building a culture and what not. Whats obvious is we'll go nowhere with the likes of Charles Vernam floating around
Tell a lie, non league is where we'll go. A great goal every 8 games wont help us
Posted by: Maringer, September 16, 2024, 11:43am; Reply: 152
I'm not sure why there is so much criticism of Vernam in particular.

We're trying to play with the wingers in advanced positions, ready to link up with midfield and then push on. It's not as if they are standing 5 yards from the full-backs just waiting for the ball. It stands to reason that they aren't going to be able to do as much defensive work as if they were playing a much deeper role. You can't do both and I don't think Vernam has been any worse defensively than JDS. He's just picking up more criticism.
Posted by: gtfc_chris, September 16, 2024, 11:44am; Reply: 153
Reading through the majority of this thread highlights there's a number of themes that highlight the problem in our thinking.

Someone posted our historical final position in L2,and you have to go back nearly 20 years since we last hit a single digit position. The immediate conclusion drawn is that we, as a club, are not the one of the 80s or 90s and our standing within the game has changed dramatically. It isn't only our own downfall that has rooted us in this position, it's the improvements other clubs have made and sustained over time too.

The first thing needed to arrest that decline was a change in ownership, which we've done. The new owners have made significant improvements to our way of thinking, our outlook and how we want to affect positive change. Whereas some clubs have made their improvements with the good fortune of substantial financial backing there are also some who have done it through sound business and game models, which takes time. Although our owners are trying to acquire investment to speed things along, it seems evident they won't risk our long term future by inviting people on board who have immoral motives for their involvement. Whatever the case, it remains at this time highly unlikely that we're going to have an injection on the scale of a Stockport or Wrexham to expedite our climb through the leagues, so instead we need to find a way of creating consistency and stability on the pitch to progress.

Relatively speaking we probably haven't even got our foot on the first rung of the ladder in terms of our long term future. We are in our first full season whereby this new 'game model' we've been cited as having is in progress. We saw last season that when trying to implement it with the squad we had it didn't work, so it was placed on hiatus until summer recruitment took place and we've come back to that way of playing, with near universal acceptance that it is a far cry improved from the Mk1 version.

The majority of posters on here seem to recognise this and have stated that we'll win some and lose some in this manner whilst we figure out the wrinkles and keep seeking to improve the squad window by window based on whats available to us. Though I'm not going to argue that parts of yesterdays game - most notably the first half - weren't poor and there's nothing wrong with discussing what we didn't like about the performance, I find it so frustrating to see people go on about how DA needs to go because there are some improvements we need to make after 6 games as the headline and main theme.

What I also find a little funny in some ways is that the same people who are saying DA needs to change things up when the opposition get on top are the same ones who lamented Paul Hurst for worrying too much about the opposition. So with one manager he needs to concentrate on what we do and not worry about the opposition, the next manager needs to play to the opposition.

There's an element of flippancy in that last bit, because it isn't quite black and white in terms of game management, but those negative posters do try to paint it in such a way to suit their agenda. My argument in support of the approach DA is taking - and the wider viewpoint - is that you have to trust the players to implement what you want. If you abandon the plan after 10 minutes because the opposition have gained the upper hand, what does that suggest to the players in how they're trusted to regain the ascendancy? How many plans are we going to need to learn based on the vast array of different 'tactics' that a team could use against us? And if the counter-argument is we need to study the opposition and adapt based on how we know they play then I circle back to the last paragraph without any flippancy at all. My personal view is maintaining our way of playing with some fine adjustments, such as when to sit back and when to press higher and play higher up the pitch, not shifting players around and giving them different roles. Game management but with our own style maintained throughout - worry about our game.

In that sense, I've seen enough in the opening 6 matches to see that how we want to try and play can be exciting and effective. No doubt we haven't got it all figured out yet and I doubt we'll ever reach 100% fluency for a long long time, if ever, but as someone has posted in another thread, "the shoots are there". If we cut the shoots in their infancy every time there seems to be a little something not right then we'll never see the flower. Granted we all want to just see the team doing well but it will take time.

Which then leads to the next thought. Fleetwood was a frustration because of our calm and almost casual approach when losing in the game and it drew criticism from quarters for that very reason. We then had a series of games where the view was mainly positive, nothing over the top but some recognition that we're heading the right way.

Notts County was a bit of a strange one, the first two goals shouldn't have counted and it changes the flow of the rest of the game. Some deflections make it 4 and it looks a horrendous beating. In my opinion, County deserved to win, they got themselves into positions and created scenarios to put the ball in the net and perhaps that's what making your own luck looks like, but we actually had more touches in their box than they had in ours and we only had one less shot than they did, we weren't completely outplayed, just the victims of poor refereeing and outstanding individual performances from Crowley and Jones.

Beyond that we had Cheltenham, which although not particularly inspiring we had 5 more shots at goal than they did and won the game, Bradford which was a fantastic performance throughout with a win, Chesterfield which was a game of two defensive errors contributing heavily to a loss despite a generally impressive performance and then yesterday, where a poor half hour and defending at set pieces (one of which when our main defending units and possibly Vassels marker was off the pitch) made the difference.

All of the above is the groundwork for my view that any suggestion of a change of manager now is not really a gamble worth taking. It may pay off. It may set us back and rip up everything we've done and we're expected to then give another period of time for the new manager to implement things. If I'm not mistaken, DA has always improved things year on year. At the end of his first season, managing 21 games Crewe finished 17th. After the first full season 15th, 12th the following season and then top of the league at the end of Covid, recorded as 2nd owing to the extra game and PPG. In L1 the following season they finished 12th, 8 points outside the play offs.

I'm not suggesting that this will be the case here, no-one can predict the future, but if we're seeing improvements in our playing style and the manner in which we play is generally accepted as an improvement, and it took DA three years to get it to a level that saw Crewe get promoted and more importantly compete at L1 level, than are we being fair in being so adamant he'll fail 6 games into what is potentially a fair judging standpoint based on it being largely now the squad he's assembled over the summer? If these games were the first 6 of his tenure full stop following PH would there be the same outcry or does this look noticeably better than the football under PH?

Ask me what I want and I'll tell you it's promotion this season with goals galore and lovely fluid football. Ask me what I'll settle for and it's football that looks more creative, has moments that really get you excited and hopeful for the future and a sense that we have a footballing identity that shows we are improving. Seeing that evidenced by higher league finishes season after season and if that puts us in the frame for promotion in three years time then I'll be happy.

What I worry about is the impatience of fans creating a hostile atmosphere that permeates to the players and contributes towards the negative fog that engulfed us for 20 years under JSF. It was clear that he had no vision to improve the playing side either by cash injections or footballing ingenuity behind the scenes. The new owners are looking to improve on both and I have every trust that given time and patience across the board they will deliver success. To recycle managers every 12 months because it doesn't look as though we're getting promoted after a handful of games is a dangerous precedent to set and will only serve to turn us into the same basket case club that Watford and Chelsea seem to have/be morphed/morphing into where success is instantly demanded. It certainly won't do our reputation within the game any good with players and managers potentially conscious of the instability that goes with constant movement in and out, chances are we'll be left with the journeymen who will come for a pay cheque with no real desire to help the club progress.

Frustrating though some games will undoubtedly be from time to time, I much prefer to place my trust in people here with a genuine collective desire to improve us both short and long term and afford them the time to demonstrate that improvement is both constant for short periods of time and continued over longer periods of time.
Posted by: Mappers, September 16, 2024, 11:57am; Reply: 154
Quoted from gtfc_chris
Reading through the majority of this thread highlights there's a number of themes that highlight the problem in our thinking.

Someone posted our historical final position in L2,and you have to go back nearly 20 years since we last hit a single digit position. The immediate conclusion drawn is that we, as a club, are not the one of the 80s or 90s and our standing within the game has changed dramatically. It isn't only our own downfall that has rooted us in this position, it's the improvements other clubs have made and sustained over time too.

The first thing needed to arrest that decline was a change in ownership, which we've done. The new owners have made significant improvements to our way of thinking, our outlook and how we want to affect positive change. Whereas some clubs have made their improvements with the good fortune of substantial financial backing there are also some who have done it through sound business and game models, which takes time. Although our owners are trying to acquire investment to speed things along, it seems evident they won't risk our long term future by inviting people on board who have immoral motives for their involvement. Whatever the case, it remains at this time highly unlikely that we're going to have an injection on the scale of a Stockport or Wrexham to expedite our climb through the leagues, so instead we need to find a way of creating consistency and stability on the pitch to progress.

Relatively speaking we probably haven't even got our foot on the first rung of the ladder in terms of our long term future. We are in our first full season whereby this new 'game model' we've been cited as having is in progress. We saw last season that when trying to implement it with the squad we had it didn't work, so it was placed on hiatus until summer recruitment took place and we've come back to that way of playing, with near universal acceptance that it is a far cry improved from the Mk1 version.

The majority of posters on here seem to recognise this and have stated that we'll win some and lose some in this manner whilst we figure out the wrinkles and keep seeking to improve the squad window by window based on whats available to us. Though I'm not going to argue that parts of yesterdays game - most notably the first half - weren't poor and there's nothing wrong with discussing what we didn't like about the performance, I find it so frustrating to see people go on about how DA needs to go because there are some improvements we need to make after 6 games as the headline and main theme.

What I also find a little funny in some ways is that the same people who are saying DA needs to change things up when the opposition get on top are the same ones who lamented Paul Hurst for worrying too much about the opposition. So with one manager he needs to concentrate on what we do and not worry about the opposition, the next manager needs to play to the opposition.

There's an element of flippancy in that last bit, because it isn't quite black and white in terms of game management, but those negative posters do try to paint it in such a way to suit their agenda. My argument in support of the approach DA is taking - and the wider viewpoint - is that you have to trust the players to implement what you want. If you abandon the plan after 10 minutes because the opposition have gained the upper hand, what does that suggest to the players in how they're trusted to regain the ascendancy? How many plans are we going to need to learn based on the vast array of different 'tactics' that a team could use against us? And if the counter-argument is we need to study the opposition and adapt based on how we know they play then I circle back to the last paragraph without any flippancy at all. My personal view is maintaining our way of playing with some fine adjustments, such as when to sit back and when to press higher and play higher up the pitch, not shifting players around and giving them different roles. Game management but with our own style maintained throughout - worry about our game.

In that sense, I've seen enough in the opening 6 matches to see that how we want to try and play can be exciting and effective. No doubt we haven't got it all figured out yet and I doubt we'll ever reach 100% fluency for a long long time, if ever, but as someone has posted in another thread, "the shoots are there". If we cut the shoots in their infancy every time there seems to be a little something not right then we'll never see the flower. Granted we all want to just see the team doing well but it will take time.

Which then leads to the next thought. Fleetwood was a frustration because of our calm and almost casual approach when losing in the game and it drew criticism from quarters for that very reason. We then had a series of games where the view was mainly positive, nothing over the top but some recognition that we're heading the right way.

Notts County was a bit of a strange one, the first two goals shouldn't have counted and it changes the flow of the rest of the game. Some deflections make it 4 and it looks a horrendous beating. In my opinion, County deserved to win, they got themselves into positions and created scenarios to put the ball in the net and perhaps that's what making your own luck looks like, but we actually had more touches in their box than they had in ours and we only had one less shot than they did, we weren't completely outplayed, just the victims of poor refereeing and outstanding individual performances from Crowley and Jones.

Beyond that we had Cheltenham, which although not particularly inspiring we had 5 more shots at goal than they did and won the game, Bradford which was a fantastic performance throughout with a win, Chesterfield which was a game of two defensive errors contributing heavily to a loss despite a generally impressive performance and then yesterday, where a poor half hour and defending at set pieces (one of which when our main defending units and possibly Vassels marker was off the pitch) made the difference.

All of the above is the groundwork for my view that any suggestion of a change of manager now is not really a gamble worth taking. It may pay off. It may set us back and rip up everything we've done and we're expected to then give another period of time for the new manager to implement things. If I'm not mistaken, DA has always improved things year on year. At the end of his first season, managing 21 games Crewe finished 17th. After the first full season 15th, 12th the following season and then top of the league at the end of Covid, recorded as 2nd owing to the extra game and PPG. In L1 the following season they finished 12th, 8 points outside the play offs.

I'm not suggesting that this will be the case here, no-one can predict the future, but if we're seeing improvements in our playing style and the manner in which we play is generally accepted as an improvement, and it took DA three years to get it to a level that saw Crewe get promoted and more importantly compete at L1 level, than are we being fair in being so adamant he'll fail 6 games into what is potentially a fair judging standpoint based on it being largely now the squad he's assembled over the summer? If these games were the first 6 of his tenure full stop following PH would there be the same outcry or does this look noticeably better than the football under PH?

Ask me what I want and I'll tell you it's promotion this season with goals galore and lovely fluid football. Ask me what I'll settle for and it's football that looks more creative, has moments that really get you excited and hopeful for the future and a sense that we have a footballing identity that shows we are improving. Seeing that evidenced by higher league finishes season after season and if that puts us in the frame for promotion in three years time then I'll be happy.

What I worry about is the impatience of fans creating a hostile atmosphere that permeates to the players and contributes towards the negative fog that engulfed us for 20 years under JSF. It was clear that he had no vision to improve the playing side either by cash injections or footballing ingenuity behind the scenes. The new owners are looking to improve on both and I have every trust that given time and patience across the board they will deliver success. To recycle managers every 12 months because it doesn't look as though we're getting promoted after a handful of games is a dangerous precedent to set and will only serve to turn us into the same basket case club that Watford and Chelsea seem to have/be morphed/morphing into where success is instantly demanded. It certainly won't do our reputation within the game any good with players and managers potentially conscious of the instability that goes with constant movement in and out, chances are we'll be left with the journeymen who will come for a pay cheque with no real desire to help the club progress.

Frustrating though some games will undoubtedly be from time to time, I much prefer to place my trust in people here with a genuine collective desire to improve us both short and long term and afford them the time to demonstrate that improvement is both constant for short periods of time and continued over longer periods of time.


I think the fan thing is over used as any meaningful thing as to a negative on our performance - BP is mild compared to back in the day ; more like a morgue rather than any hostility really apart from the odd heckler in the Main - jesus if they think this is hostile  I wouldn't like to know what they would think of the 90' and early 2000's even when we were doing well it was worse . It's more apathetic now imo, like the life has been sucked out of the fanbase more than much negativity it certainly wasn't anywhere near bad in the lower on Saturday .

Artell said he took Wright out of the team because he was worried about fan reaction when he did something wrong with the ball . I find it frankly bizarre that we signed a keeper who can't use his feet when it's vital for the way we want to play tbh . I wouldn't be suprised if Wright's confidence has been badly effected by being asked to do something he can't leading to the errors rather than him being a bad keeper.
Posted by: gtfc_chris, September 16, 2024, 12:06pm; Reply: 155
Quoted from Mappers


I think the fan thing is over used as any meaningful thing as to a negative on our performance - BP is mild compared to back in the day ; more like a morgue rather than any hostility really apart from the odd heckler in the Main - jesus if they think this is hostile  I wouldn't like to know what they would think of the 90' and early 2000's even when we were doing well it was worse . It's more apathetic now imo, like the life has been sucked out of the fanbase more than much negativity it certainly wasn't anywhere near bad in the lower on Saturday .

Artell said he took Wright out of the team because he was worried about fan reaction when he did something wrong with the ball . I find it frankly bizarre that we signed a keeper who can't use his feet when it's vital for the way we want to play tbh . I wouldn't be suprised if Wright's confidence has been badly effected by being asked to do something he can't leading to the errors rather than him being a bad keeper.


Yeah, agree, I didn't necessarily mean the reaction at present, there were some boo's during the game but I think that's more a reflection of the performance than aimed at the manager directly. We've got a handful here and no doubt on twitter who I would say fit the bill of what I mean but from the keyboard I'm sure it doesn't have much of an impact right now. The danger though is once that starts to catch impatience can grow, expectations can soon start to fluctuate and panic sets in which then starts to bring more of the negative atmosphere of which I fear. I don't think it's close but we've all seen how quickly things can change in the past. You only have to ask Doncaster how quickly it can also turn positively if the majority of things are in place and it just needs that little spark to ignite the potential that exists. Perhaps I'm naive but I tend to believe in that potential and even as a PH fan and holding that belief with his sides, I have to admit that give the choice of a DA or PH type performance, I'm taking DA. I'm not necessarily a DA admirer as such, but I do believe he's steering us a way that in the long term will bring success, it's just how long people are willing to be patient.
Posted by: Maringer, September 16, 2024, 12:32pm; Reply: 156
A lot of people around me were absolutely losing their shite when we were passing back at times during the game. I can certainly agree with them to some degree because it was needless quite a lot of the time, but they were going on the same when it was the obvious and sensible choice as well.

It does seem as though some in the crowd want to see the ball punted forward rather than a patient build up. If we're going to try and pass the ball through teams, you have to accept that sometimes you run up a blind alley and it is better to turn backwards rather than just hand the team the ball with a hopeful punt or a cross when there is nothing really on in the middle.
Posted by: Mappers, September 16, 2024, 12:33pm; Reply: 157
Quoted from gtfc_chris


Yeah, agree, I didn't necessarily mean the reaction at present, there were some boo's during the game but I think that's more a reflection of the performance than aimed at the manager directly. We've got a handful here and no doubt on twitter who I would say fit the bill of what I mean but from the keyboard I'm sure it doesn't have much of an impact right now. The danger though is once that starts to catch impatience can grow, expectations can soon start to fluctuate and panic sets in which then starts to bring more of the negative atmosphere of which I fear. I don't think it's close but we've all seen how quickly things can change in the past. You only have to ask Doncaster how quickly it can also turn positively if the majority of things are in place and it just needs that little spark to ignite the potential that exists. Perhaps I'm naive but I tend to believe in that potential and even as a PH fan and holding that belief with his sides, I have to admit that give the choice of a DA or PH type performance, I'm taking DA. I'm not necessarily a DA admirer as such, but I do believe he's steering us a way that in the long term will bring success, it's just how long people are willing to be patient.


Fair mate good post aswell .

Posted by: GrimPol, September 16, 2024, 1:12pm; Reply: 158
Quoted from gtfc_chris
Reading through the majority of this thread highlights there's a number of themes that highlight the problem in our thinking.

Someone posted our historical final position in L2,and you have to go back nearly 20 years since we last hit a single digit position. The immediate conclusion drawn is that we, as a club, are not the one of the 80s or 90s and our standing within the game has changed dramatically. It isn't only our own downfall that has rooted us in this position, it's the improvements other clubs have made and sustained over time too.

The first thing needed to arrest that decline was a change in ownership, which we've done. The new owners have made significant improvements to our way of thinking, our outlook and how we want to affect positive change. Whereas some clubs have made their improvements with the good fortune of substantial financial backing there are also some who have done it through sound business and game models, which takes time. Although our owners are trying to acquire investment to speed things along, it seems evident they won't risk our long term future by inviting people on board who have immoral motives for their involvement. Whatever the case, it remains at this time highly unlikely that we're going to have an injection on the scale of a Stockport or Wrexham to expedite our climb through the leagues, so instead we need to find a way of creating consistency and stability on the pitch to progress.

Relatively speaking we probably haven't even got our foot on the first rung of the ladder in terms of our long term future. We are in our first full season whereby this new 'game model' we've been cited as having is in progress. We saw last season that when trying to implement it with the squad we had it didn't work, so it was placed on hiatus until summer recruitment took place and we've come back to that way of playing, with near universal acceptance that it is a far cry improved from the Mk1 version.

The majority of posters on here seem to recognise this and have stated that we'll win some and lose some in this manner whilst we figure out the wrinkles and keep seeking to improve the squad window by window based on whats available to us. Though I'm not going to argue that parts of yesterdays game - most notably the first half - weren't poor and there's nothing wrong with discussing what we didn't like about the performance, I find it so frustrating to see people go on about how DA needs to go because there are some improvements we need to make after 6 games as the headline and main theme.

What I also find a little funny in some ways is that the same people who are saying DA needs to change things up when the opposition get on top are the same ones who lamented Paul Hurst for worrying too much about the opposition. So with one manager he needs to concentrate on what we do and not worry about the opposition, the next manager needs to play to the opposition.

There's an element of flippancy in that last bit, because it isn't quite black and white in terms of game management, but those negative posters do try to paint it in such a way to suit their agenda. My argument in support of the approach DA is taking - and the wider viewpoint - is that you have to trust the players to implement what you want. If you abandon the plan after 10 minutes because the opposition have gained the upper hand, what does that suggest to the players in how they're trusted to regain the ascendancy? How many plans are we going to need to learn based on the vast array of different 'tactics' that a team could use against us? And if the counter-argument is we need to study the opposition and adapt based on how we know they play then I circle back to the last paragraph without any flippancy at all. My personal view is maintaining our way of playing with some fine adjustments, such as when to sit back and when to press higher and play higher up the pitch, not shifting players around and giving them different roles. Game management but with our own style maintained throughout - worry about our game.

In that sense, I've seen enough in the opening 6 matches to see that how we want to try and play can be exciting and effective. No doubt we haven't got it all figured out yet and I doubt we'll ever reach 100% fluency for a long long time, if ever, but as someone has posted in another thread, "the shoots are there". If we cut the shoots in their infancy every time there seems to be a little something not right then we'll never see the flower. Granted we all want to just see the team doing well but it will take time.

Which then leads to the next thought. Fleetwood was a frustration because of our calm and almost casual approach when losing in the game and it drew criticism from quarters for that very reason. We then had a series of games where the view was mainly positive, nothing over the top but some recognition that we're heading the right way.

Notts County was a bit of a strange one, the first two goals shouldn't have counted and it changes the flow of the rest of the game. Some deflections make it 4 and it looks a horrendous beating. In my opinion, County deserved to win, they got themselves into positions and created scenarios to put the ball in the net and perhaps that's what making your own luck looks like, but we actually had more touches in their box than they had in ours and we only had one less shot than they did, we weren't completely outplayed, just the victims of poor refereeing and outstanding individual performances from Crowley and Jones.

Beyond that we had Cheltenham, which although not particularly inspiring we had 5 more shots at goal than they did and won the game, Bradford which was a fantastic performance throughout with a win, Chesterfield which was a game of two defensive errors contributing heavily to a loss despite a generally impressive performance and then yesterday, where a poor half hour and defending at set pieces (one of which when our main defending units and possibly Vassels marker was off the pitch) made the difference.

All of the above is the groundwork for my view that any suggestion of a change of manager now is not really a gamble worth taking. It may pay off. It may set us back and rip up everything we've done and we're expected to then give another period of time for the new manager to implement things. If I'm not mistaken, DA has always improved things year on year. At the end of his first season, managing 21 games Crewe finished 17th. After the first full season 15th, 12th the following season and then top of the league at the end of Covid, recorded as 2nd owing to the extra game and PPG. In L1 the following season they finished 12th, 8 points outside the play offs.

I'm not suggesting that this will be the case here, no-one can predict the future, but if we're seeing improvements in our playing style and the manner in which we play is generally accepted as an improvement, and it took DA three years to get it to a level that saw Crewe get promoted and more importantly compete at L1 level, than are we being fair in being so adamant he'll fail 6 games into what is potentially a fair judging standpoint based on it being largely now the squad he's assembled over the summer? If these games were the first 6 of his tenure full stop following PH would there be the same outcry or does this look noticeably better than the football under PH?

Ask me what I want and I'll tell you it's promotion this season with goals galore and lovely fluid football. Ask me what I'll settle for and it's football that looks more creative, has moments that really get you excited and hopeful for the future and a sense that we have a footballing identity that shows we are improving. Seeing that evidenced by higher league finishes season after season and if that puts us in the frame for promotion in three years time then I'll be happy.

What I worry about is the impatience of fans creating a hostile atmosphere that permeates to the players and contributes towards the negative fog that engulfed us for 20 years under JSF. It was clear that he had no vision to improve the playing side either by cash injections or footballing ingenuity behind the scenes. The new owners are looking to improve on both and I have every trust that given time and patience across the board they will deliver success. To recycle managers every 12 months because it doesn't look as though we're getting promoted after a handful of games is a dangerous precedent to set and will only serve to turn us into the same basket case club that Watford and Chelsea seem to have/be morphed/morphing into where success is instantly demanded. It certainly won't do our reputation within the game any good with players and managers potentially conscious of the instability that goes with constant movement in and out, chances are we'll be left with the journeymen who will come for a pay cheque with no real desire to help the club progress.

Frustrating though some games will undoubtedly be from time to time, I much prefer to place my trust in people here with a genuine collective desire to improve us both short and long term and afford them the time to demonstrate that improvement is both constant for short periods of time and continued over longer periods of time.


The massive churn Grimsby and other clubs in L1 L2 encounter is mindboggling. We will have 10 players to start with,  in 2025 assuming medical, performance or even the players wanting out take its toll.
We are always in Transition, this year especially, but other clubs with higher intakes are fairing better. They cope we don't, and the common denominator is who?
After last year's fiasco when he changed the game plan and insisted the players play in a way they couldn't (not his people) when he should have worked out their strong and weak points, but didn't, doesn't give me confidence. If he couldn't read them then, what makes you think he can read them now? It's no good telling fans to have patience, I suspect the confidence levels are shot in the team. They also read the Tables. Your piece is well crafted and written but unfortunately its written for a Premier Team, not L2.
Next Saturday we play Bromley, and if we can't beat them who can we beat?

Posted by: sam gy, September 16, 2024, 1:36pm; Reply: 159
I think in order for a manager to truly have their own team they need a few years rather than 2 transfer windows. But will Artell or any other manager get that time, if it's not a success in the short to medium term?

People are saying this is Artell's team now...6 of the starting 11 were here when he got here, plus another 3 that were on the bench. We're not in the position where we can just pay players off, so we have to wait until contracts run out or another team comes in for our players.

Maybe he would've wanted all of these players regardless, maybe he's want to bin them all of in an ideal world.....i suspect it'd be somewhere in between, but he's gotta work with what he's got.
Posted by: Mappers, September 16, 2024, 1:54pm; Reply: 160
Quoted from sam gy
I think in order for a manager to truly have their own team they need a few years rather than 2 transfer windows. But will Artell or any other manager get that time, if it's not a success in the short to medium term?

People are saying this is Artell's team now...6 of the starting 11 were here when he got here, plus another 3 that were on the bench. We're not in the position where we can just pay players off, so we have to wait until contracts run out or another team comes in for our players.

Maybe he would've wanted all of these players regardless, maybe he's want to bin them all of in an ideal world.....i suspect it'd be somewhere in between, but he's gotta work with what he's got.


Completely get your point and I lean towards a similiar viewpoint but to play devils advocate - don't the best /coaches managers get the best out of what they have ?
The reality of the situation is , it's unlikely that we will get the best 11 out on paper for any length of time due to injuries / form etc I don't think that can be a long/short/medium  term excuse for not producing results look at Lindsey at Crawley threw a team together in pre-season straight up and haven't started too badly ; the same with Evans at Stevenage right through .

I'm not saying I expect that, but my point is more it is possible to have short to medium term success while also having a broader long term vision within your limitations  and I very much hope that's what we are shooting for in the club .
Posted by: sam gy, September 16, 2024, 2:15pm; Reply: 161
Quoted from Mappers


Completely get your point and I lean towards a similiar viewpoint but to play devils advocate - don't the best /coaches managers get the best out of what they have ?
.


Oh totally. My point was more of a general observation, rather than anti or pro Artell.
Posted by: mariner91, September 16, 2024, 2:20pm; Reply: 162
Quoted from DaleH
I think Town are in trouble this season. And when a neighbour of the management/coaching team allegedly tells a neighbour he’s concerned about the squad, that tells me enough to be concerned too.

That period of the jury being out regarding the managerial appointment is well and truly over for me. I don’t rate him, and I think we may well be back in the market for a replacement come Christmas, if not earlier.

Worrying times


Whatever happened to Filipe Noche? He often had incorrect information.
Posted by: sam gy, September 16, 2024, 2:25pm; Reply: 163
So if the neighbour of the memberr of the coaching team told his neighbour, was that the next door but one neighbour of the member of the coaching team, or the member of the coaching team?  ;D
Posted by: Mappers, September 16, 2024, 2:31pm; Reply: 164
Quoted from Maringer
A lot of people around me were absolutely losing their shite when we were passing back at times during the game. I can certainly agree with them to some degree because it was needless quite a lot of the time, but they were going on the same when it was the obvious and sensible choice as well.

It does seem as though some in the crowd want to see the ball punted forward rather than a patient build up. If we're going to try and pass the ball through teams, you have to accept that sometimes you run up a blind alley and it is better to turn backwards rather than just hand the team the ball with a hopeful punt or a cross when there is nothing really on in the middle.


Thats no different than ever though is it with Buckley it was 'just get it forward' with Hurst it was 'attack,keep it on the floor ' i think that demographic who just go to moan and at times (and always actually ) will just want something different to what's being served up whatever it is and whoever is in charge ,can be ruled out of having any meaningful debate with ,which is similiar to the one's who love Artell one week and want him gone the next really there is no rationale so might aswell just let them crack on .

Posted by: Vance Warner, September 16, 2024, 3:01pm; Reply: 165
Quoted from Maringer
A lot of people around me were absolutely losing their shite when we were passing back at times during the game. I can certainly agree with them to some degree because it was needless quite a lot of the time, but they were going on the same when it was the obvious and sensible choice as well.

It does seem as though some in the crowd want to see the ball punted forward rather than a patient build up. If we're going to try and pass the ball through teams, you have to accept that sometimes you run up a blind alley and it is better to turn backwards rather than just hand the team the ball with a hopeful punt or a cross when there is nothing really on in the middle.


That was really audible on the tv. Felt for the players who were getting booed for playing the ball backwards. It definitely had an impact as there were a few times immediately afterwards when they played long balls and guess what they lost possession. I thought it was obvious what we’re trying to do but there’s still criticism on social media about us messing about with it at the back when that’s obviously not the case.
Posted by: gtfc_chris, September 16, 2024, 3:02pm; Reply: 166
Quoted from GrimPol


The massive churn Grimsby and other clubs in L1 L2 encounter is mindboggling. We will have 10 players to start with,  in 2025 assuming medical, performance or even the players wanting out take its toll.
We are always in Transition, this year especially, but other clubs with higher intakes are fairing better. They cope we don't, and the common denominator is who?
After last year's fiasco when he changed the game plan and insisted the players play in a way they couldn't (not his people) when he should have worked out their strong and weak points, but didn't, doesn't give me confidence. If he couldn't read them then, what makes you think he can read them now? It's no good telling fans to have patience, I suspect the confidence levels are shot in the team. They also read the Tables. Your piece is well crafted and written but unfortunately its written for a Premier Team, not L2.
Next Saturday we play Bromley, and if we can't beat them who can we beat?



It's written for any industry or profession.

How many electricians left school, picked up a multimeter and were masters of their trade? How many completed years of training on apprenticeships and then took a good number of years thereafter until they could be considered masters of their trade?

I'm sure something will exist but I can't immediately think of any trade, profession or craft that you can become skilled at - or see tangible success in - without some work to achieve it beforehand.

You keep referencing DA not understanding his players. He is the manager, he is the one that determines and drives the way in which we play. The tail doesn't wag the dog. He had a squad that he tried to utilise to play the way he wants to and the way the club has determined within whatever metrics it's using to plan for sustained success on the pitch. We don't see the input or impact of the 21st group or Gareth Jenkins but working away in the background there'll be some nuggets of information that are driving how we believe we can fall the right side of the fine margins that exist in the game.

However, after trying to get the players playing the way he and the club want, it was evident that it wasn't working, so he changed it. For a period of time the tail DID wag the dog, because he saw it as necessary. The players are professional footballers and can all perform the rudimentary techniques needed to play this type of football. Training is one thing, a match is another, we know this at all levels of the game and it can take time for a manager to get a good feel for whether players are able to put into practice what they're working on or not. In the 12 games before the tactical switch, we had the same or more shots than the opposition on 9 occasions (75%), we had more possession on 8 occasions (67%), had more touches in the opposition box than the opposition in 9 games (75%), only failed to score in 2 games, yet failed to keep a clean sheet in only 2 games too. What we couldn't do was make the statistical advantage turn to enough goals or clean sheets and so a more defensive approach was taken to try and prevent the leaks first.

That resulted in 6 clean sheets, 5 of which resulted in wins. In the 15 games post switch we had more possession on 4 occasions (27%), more shots than the opposition on 8 occasions (53%), more touches in the box on 11 (73%). Metrics that you might consider skew towards the entertainment factor (shots at goal, possession, having the ball in opposition box) were far more in our favour in the 'Artellball', but there were frailties that necessitated a change given our league standing. You cite that as bad management, I view that as good management.

How on earth do you suspect confidence levels are shot? That's just a complete stab in the dark trying to create your own evidence for your dislike of the manager. With the exception of County, every game has been won or lost by one goal, many of the goals conceded could easily be considered as cheap; 2 defensive errors against Chesterfield, a goalkeeping error against Bradford, 2 set pieces against Barrow, 2 that shouldn't have counted at County, 2 deflections at County. That accounts for 9 of the 12 we've conceded. They all count so we have to run with it but we're not easily carved open and we're looking at individual errors costing us.

The premise of your argument suggests that any manager who arrives at the club should instantaneously understand his players and immediately produce football that meets (your?) standard. It's just not realistic. He's been in the job 10 months and we have seen a difference. It might not be a difference where at this very moment in time we sit in the play-offs but our football is noticeably better than what came before and human errors on the pitch have played a huge part in our current league position..... after 6 games.

I'm sure Doncaster had their fair share of GrimPols come February last season but it didn't turn out too badly for them in the end. Who knows, by February 2025 we may be bottom and my belief today could be proven as very misguided. We might still be playing nice football but suffering the same frailties, not too dissimilar to Neil Woods team and a change is necessary to preserve our league status. We might also cut out the individual errors, start picking up the points and be sat in or around the play-offs. Either way, as we sit here today based on what we've seen so far this season I think the level of concern is an overreaction with a theme of impatience and expectation that is ahead of ourselves with no basis for that to be so. History or attendances are not a barometer for success today. We have to play our way to those heights again and there is no shortcut, it simply takes time, whether with DA, the next guy or the next one. I'm not arguing another manager couldn't do it better, I'm saying be careful what you wish for or we might never get off this merry go round of L2 mediocrity as we recycle managers when they don't deliver instant success.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, September 16, 2024, 3:25pm; Reply: 167
Quoted from Vance Warner


That was really audible on the tv. Felt for the players who were getting booed for playing the ball backwards. It definitely had an impact as there were a few times immediately afterwards when they played long balls and guess what they lost possession. I thought it was obvious what we’re trying to do but there’s still criticism on social media about us messing about with it at the back when that’s obviously not the case.


I think it is how slow and lethargic it was really. I'm sure most by know the plan, and a lot, perhaps most agree with it, but it is the slow motion nature of passing it around between the keeper and defenders that is irking some, together with the rest of the team not showing for the ball.

It is part of the learning curve as they say so let's hope Saturday is more of s Bradford type performance.
Posted by: gtfc_chris, September 16, 2024, 3:27pm; Reply: 168
Quoted from Mappers


Completely get your point and I lean towards a similiar viewpoint but to play devils advocate - don't the best /coaches managers get the best out of what they have ?
The reality of the situation is , it's unlikely that we will get the best 11 out on paper for any length of time due to injuries / form etc I don't think that can be a long/short/medium  term excuse for not producing results look at Lindsey at Crawley threw a team together in pre-season straight up and haven't started too badly ; the same with Evans at Stevenage right through .

I'm not saying I expect that, but my point is more it is possible to have short to medium term success while also having a broader long term vision within your limitations  and I very much hope that's what we are shooting for in the club .


This has a potential to be counter-productive too though. Great examples of managers coming in and performing a fantastic job straight off the bat. However, if they've come in, just done their thing and made it work with what they have owing to good man-management and communication skills etc, what happens if the next guy coming in is useless in those attributes and the whole thing falls apart?

This is where I'm cautious of the instant success based on the qualities of a manager of his own right. They may be 1 in 100, which is great for the duration of his time but does that provide sustained improvement or do we falter back down? I'm very much of the thinking that we produce a way of playing, work towards improving it continuously and search for managers that match the philosophy to improve our chances of maintaining success, not letting it be a standalone period in the clubs history. It may well be slower, may not be the current manager who delivers, but if every action taken by the club in terms of recruitment (players and managers) is made with an overarching principle then I believe that in the long run we'll fare better than trying to find that 1 in 100 every 12 months.
Posted by: Maringer, September 16, 2024, 3:32pm; Reply: 169


I think it is how slow and lethargic it was really. I'm sure most by know the plan, and a lot, perhaps most agree with it, but it is the slow motion nature of passing it around between the keeper and defenders that is irking some, together with the rest of the team not showing for the ball.


If you think about it, though, it's not just 4th division footballers who are like this. Remember England in the Euros during the summer? No end of the slow, seemingly pointless passing across the defence and midfield in many of those games as well and that is with players who are at a different level physically and technically to ours.
Posted by: Swansea_Mariner, September 16, 2024, 5:59pm; Reply: 170
Quoted from Maringer
A lot of people around me were absolutely losing their shite when we were passing back at times during the game. I can certainly agree with them to some degree because it was needless quite a lot of the time, but they were going on the same when it was the obvious and sensible choice as well.

It does seem as though some in the crowd want to see the ball punted forward rather than a patient build up. If we're going to try and pass the ball through teams, you have to accept that sometimes you run up a blind alley and it is better to turn backwards rather than just hand the team the ball with a hopeful punt or a cross when there is nothing really on in the middle.


It's hard to generalise as I've no idea what those people are actually thinking but I've the feeling it's not the passing around at the back per se that leads people to lose their shite but the pedestrian and robotic way we appear to go about it.  I'll add 'at the moment' to the end of that sentence because the current guise cannot be where DA wants us to end up.
Posted by: buckstown, September 16, 2024, 6:37pm; Reply: 171
Two days on and I’m still struggling to get my head round how we played so well against Bradford and so badly against Barrow.
Assume it because Barrow were more tactically astute?
Posted by: Maringer, September 16, 2024, 6:40pm; Reply: 172
The biggest problem is a lack of thought on show, I think. On too many occasions, Rodgers and McJannet (but mostly Rodgers), received the ball 30-odd yards from our goal with no pressure on them from the opposition and in plenty of space, yet looked baffled for a few seconds before turning and passing g it back needlessly. It's almost as though they've decided they aren't good enough at passing to try anything so will try and work it out of defence a different way.

I can't imagine this is part of the plan. If you're under pressure and nothing obvious is on, then fair enough, but if you're losing especially, it's just playing into the hands of the opposition if you don't try and play it forward when you've got time and space. Heck, jog 10 yards forward with the ball and see if any space opens up. I remember Rodgers doing that a few times in the early stages of the season, but he seems to get a nosebleed now.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 16, 2024, 6:42pm; Reply: 173
Quoted from buckstown
Two days on and I’m still struggling to get my head round how we played so well against Bradford and so badly against Barrow.
Assume it because Barrow were more tactically astute?


Pretty much.

Our current system has more than a whiff of predictability and those who are best at it are easily identified. They pressed with two on McEachran and we didn’t have the nous to beat the press because there wasn’t enough movement from the other players ahead of the ball.
Posted by: TownSNAFU5, September 16, 2024, 8:06pm; Reply: 174
The many passes to the keeper were one of the main frustrations.
Posted by: Gaffer58, September 16, 2024, 8:49pm; Reply: 175
Are the many passes to the goalkeeper or aimlessly along the back because they’ve been instructed to keep possession and not risk losing the ball, hence they choose the easy pass rather then one that might not come off but if it does has a good chance of creating something.
Posted by: pontoonlew, September 16, 2024, 8:51pm; Reply: 176
Quoted from buckstown
Two days on and I’m still struggling to get my head round how we played so well against Bradford and so badly against Barrow.
Assume it because Barrow were more tactically astute?


I think it’s more of a case of what Artell warned after the Bradford game, there’s going to be weeks where it doesn’t come off.

It worked versus Cheltenham & Bradford, and it did to a point against Chesterfield (but for some mindless defending). But certainly didn’t against Notts or Barrow.

It’ll probably be inconsistent throughout the season and is exactly why we’ll finish mid-table IMO. It’s certainly no good for the blood pressure of some who meltdown at every indifferent result but at least this forum will be an entertaining read throughout the season.
Posted by: grimsby pete, September 16, 2024, 9:02pm; Reply: 177
What is the input on the training field ?

I am sure if Pearson was allowed he would be shouting at our defence to get to the ball first.

So maybe he is not allowed.

If you look back at the goals we have ten players back in the box but No one attempts to get to the ball.

So their players thinks Christmas has come early.

Silly errors are costing us and we have to stop giving our opponents gifts.
Posted by: chaos33, September 16, 2024, 9:19pm; Reply: 178
Quoted from pontoonlew


I think it’s more of a case of what Artell warned after the Bradford game, there’s going to be weeks where it doesn’t come off.

It worked versus Cheltenham & Bradford, and it did to a point against Chesterfield (but for some mindless defending). But certainly didn’t against Notts or Barrow.

It’ll probably be inconsistent throughout the season and is exactly why we’ll finish mid-table IMO. It’s certainly no good for the blood pressure of some who meltdown at every indifferent result but at least this forum will be an entertaining read throughout the season.


Yep. If you’re hopeless at defending and you can’t pass the ball forwards with purpose, there sure will be many weeks where it ‘doesn’t come off’.

Look at how Barrow set up, as described by Acko.
Just a vastly superior, more productive blueprint than ours. I mean, set aside that we can’t seem to grasp defensive basics; our fitness is a major concern. We’ve got many players that look visibly very unfit once we get to 70 mins. Now, a porous defence and an unfit team points to major trouble given that most goals are scored in the last third of games. Artell’s model has huge holes in it for me and basic fitness and a solid defensive platform are the two biggest.

We will be a bottom 6 struggler like this. Just my opinion, but I’m pretty sure of it.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 16, 2024, 9:36pm; Reply: 179
Quoted from chaos33


Yep. If you’re hopeless at defending and you can’t pass the ball forwards with purpose, there sure will be many weeks where it ‘doesn’t come off’.

Look at how Barrow set up, as described by Acko.
Just a vastly superior, more productive blueprint than ours. I mean, set aside that we can’t seem to grasp defensive basics; our fitness is a major concern. We’ve got many players that look visibly very unfit once we get to 70 mins. Now, a porous defence and an unfit team points to major trouble given that most goals are scored in the last third of games. Artell’s model has huge holes in it for me and basic fitness and a solid defensive platform are the two biggest.

We will be a bottom 6 struggler like this. Just my opinion, but I’m pretty sure of it.


I agree with most of this. I’m hoping that, when we get Tharme and Thompson back, we’re a bit more defensively sound and we can get towards the top of the bottom half.

My question is what constitutes a good season?
Posted by: jamesgtfc, September 16, 2024, 9:43pm; Reply: 180
Quoted from MuddyWaters


I agree with most of this. I’m hoping that, when we get Tharme and Thompson back, we’re a bit more defensively sound and we can get towards the top of the bottom half.

My question is what constitutes a good season?


Artell has already churned out the line that improvement isn't linear a couple of times, which feels like an excuse for we may go backwards again this season. We can't regress too much in terms of league position without getting relegated, so that line does worry me when we desperately need to take a step forward this season.

For me, a good season would be finishing around 12th.
Posted by: Mappers, September 16, 2024, 10:30pm; Reply: 181
Quoted from MuddyWaters


I agree with most of this. I’m hoping that, when we get Tharme and Thompson back, we’re a bit more defensively sound and we can get towards the top of the bottom half.

My question is what constitutes a good season?


Probably not having to pay off a manager again, 'the game model' not breaking down for a second time + being abandoned  , having a settled group of players were only 5 or 6 need to be added rather than 12-15 come season end   ; which seems the norm and a finish upwards of 16th would do for me .
Posted by: Mappers, September 16, 2024, 10:32pm; Reply: 182
Quoted from jamesgtfc


Artell has already churned out the line that improvement isn't linear a couple of times, which feels like an excuse for we may go backwards again this season. We can't regress too much in terms of league position without getting relegated, so that line does worry me when we desperately need to take a step forward this season.

For me, a good season would be finishing around 12th.


It might be a bit early in the piece , but I  actually think we can almost take relegation off the table to be honest I can see Morecambe and Accrington getting seriously low point totals they have dire squads .
Posted by: Yarborough Vaults, September 17, 2024, 6:33am; Reply: 183
All options are on the table at this point.

The way we played against Bradford gives me hope but this side is equally capable of looking frail and clueless, as against Barrow.

A win against Bromley will steady the nerves.Even a valiant defeat would be acceptable, just not the whimpering surrender we saw last Saturday.
Posted by: gtfc_chris, September 17, 2024, 7:51am; Reply: 184
Quoted from jamesgtfc


Artell has already churned out the line that improvement isn't linear a couple of times, which feels like an excuse for we may go backwards again this season. We can't regress too much in terms of league position without getting relegated, so that line does worry me when we desperately need to take a step forward this season.

For me, a good season would be finishing around 12th.


I don't worry that he's suggesting we'll go backwards, I think he means that we've made this style of football work better than the first time around, so we're moving forward in that regard, but within that it doesn't mean we outplay Bradford one week, we're going to maintain that every week. That's how I would take linear, each game will be an improvement on the last, so if we have a blinder one week you'd be expected to match it which is highly unlikely because of so may variables. There'll be games and periods that go well and some that don't go so well. I don't think we'll necessarily regress to the point of being in the bottom 2, or even the bottom 8 come the end of the season.
Posted by: Mappers, September 17, 2024, 8:44am; Reply: 185
Quoted from gtfc_chris


I don't worry that he's suggesting we'll go backwards, I think he means that we've made this style of football work better than the first time around, so we're moving forward in that regard, but within that it doesn't mean we outplay Bradford one week, we're going to maintain that every week. That's how I would take linear, each game will be an improvement on the last, so if we have a blinder one week you'd be expected to match it which is highly unlikely because of so may variables. There'll be games and periods that go well and some that don't go so well. I don't think we'll necessarily regress to the point of being in the bottom 2, or even the bottom 8 come the end of the season.


The many variables so far has been the individual errors & the goalkeeping issue for me (or footwork issue) . Apart from Notts you could make a case for us being worth more than we have got especially from Fleetwood and Chesterfield - we were on the front foot for decent spells in both really, even if not so threatening in the Fleetwood game  .

We probably have better players than Bromley, they will come to frustrate and nick something - I hope the main message this week will be concentration and an emphasis  on  making sure players make the right decisions defensively; the killer has been when a team scores one  , invariably it leads to two and kills us  . If we do those two things better we win the game imo . I think going forward we are good in spells , much better than a good few teams at this level .


Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, September 17, 2024, 9:07am; Reply: 186
Quoted from Mappers


It might be a bit early in the piece , but I  actually think we can almost take relegation off the table to be honest I can see Morecambe and Accrington getting seriously low point totals they have dire squads .


I know what you're saying here and your logic is sound but after 6 games we can't settle on 'we won't get relegated because there are 2 teams worse than us'. That isn't good enough. We need to go forward.
Posted by: Mappers, September 17, 2024, 9:47am; Reply: 187


I know what you're saying here and your logic is sound but after 6 games we can't settle on 'we won't get relegated because there are 2 teams worse than us'. That isn't good enough. We need to go forward.


Completely . I think it's more my mindset - I'm a pretty positive & ambitious in general , but it's telling when it comes to Town and season start my first thought is look for how many teams I think will be worse than us so that we won't go down out of the league once more and it's been like that for 15 years + it's more a judgement based on the historical context of how bad we have been in the league over the last 2 decades .

What's unfair with  that thought process is based largely on not what Artell, these players , this board , the model etc etc have done /are doing  but the historical context of that 20 years of abject systemic failure -  they are almost guilty by association and are taking the brunt to a degree , of something they played no part in .

We just need to hope they are the one's to make us believe on the field a  bit again i guess .
Posted by: Hagrid, September 17, 2024, 10:01am; Reply: 188
Quoted from Yarborough Vaults
All options are on the table at this point.

The way we played against Bradford gives me hope but this side is equally capable of looking frail and clueless, as against Barrow.

A win against Bromley will steady the nerves.Even a valiant defeat would be acceptable, just not the whimpering surrender we saw last Saturday.


there is nothing acceptable about losing at home to Bromley
Posted by: pontoonlew, September 17, 2024, 10:07am; Reply: 189
Quoted from chaos33


Yep. If you’re hopeless at defending and you can’t pass the ball forwards with purpose, there sure will be many weeks where it ‘doesn’t come off’.

Look at how Barrow set up, as described by Acko.
Just a vastly superior, more productive blueprint than ours. I mean, set aside that we can’t seem to grasp defensive basics; our fitness is a major concern. We’ve got many players that look visibly very unfit once we get to 70 mins. Now, a porous defence and an unfit team points to major trouble given that most goals are scored in the last third of games. Artell’s model has huge holes in it for me and basic fitness and a solid defensive platform are the two biggest.

We will be a bottom 6 struggler like this. Just my opinion, but I’m pretty sure of it.


We’ve conceded 2 goals post 70 minutes and won both of those games…

We weren’t hopeless and not passing the ball forward with purpose against Cheltenham or Bradford. We weren’t even that on balance at Chesterfield either, just two brain dead moments cost us the game.

We can’t just make sweeping statements on our abilities when we’re still so inconsistent with it IMO. In the same way Bradford didn’t mean we were champions in waiting, the Barrow game doesn’t mean we’re a bottom 6 side.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 17, 2024, 10:13am; Reply: 190
Quoted from pontoonlew


We’ve conceded 2 goals post 70 minutes and won both of those games…

We weren’t hopeless and not passing the ball forward with purpose against Cheltenham or Bradford. We weren’t even that on balance at Chesterfield either, just two brain dead moments cost us the game.

We can’t just make sweeping statements on our abilities when we’re still so inconsistent with it IMO. In the same way Bradford didn’t mean we were champions in waiting, the Barrow game doesn’t mean we’re a bottom 6 side.


Those are fair comments but the last four goals conceded were all very defendable. If opposition teams work out how to defend against us (Barrow did), they will nick a goal and we will struggle to break them down.
Posted by: Hagrid, September 17, 2024, 10:20am; Reply: 191
Quoted from pontoonlew


We’ve conceded 2 goals post 70 minutes and won both of those games…

We weren’t hopeless and not passing the ball forward with purpose against Cheltenham or Bradford. We weren’t even that on balance at Chesterfield either, just two brain dead moments cost us the game.

We can’t just make sweeping statements on our abilities when we’re still so inconsistent with it IMO. In the same way Bradford didn’t mean we were champions in waiting, the Barrow game doesn’t mean we’re a bottom 6 side.


I don't think the point about us looking unfit is incorrect though, in every game i've seen us play we've looked absolutely shattered. Surprisingly so on Saturday after a week of rest
Posted by: Maringer, September 17, 2024, 10:44am; Reply: 192
Quoted from MuddyWaters


Those are fair comments but the last four goals conceded were all very defendable. If opposition teams work out how to defend against us (Barrow did), they will nick a goal and we will struggle to break them down.


But the two against Chesterfield were from absolutely needless individual errors and you'd hope that these don't become a regular occurrence. Everyone makes a balls-up sometimes, but we're getting punished for most of them at the moment. A lot fewer of them would be nice!

The two against Barrow were just crap defending by the team and that is a bigger issue than (hopefully!), occasional individual errors.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 17, 2024, 12:27pm; Reply: 193
Quoted from Maringer


But the two against Chesterfield were from absolutely needless individual errors and you'd hope that these don't become a regular occurrence. Everyone makes a balls-up sometimes, but we're getting punished for most of them at the moment. A lot fewer of them would be nice!

The two against Barrow were just crap defending by the team and that is a bigger issue than (hopefully!), occasional individual errors.


I don't know who's responsible on the pitch for the set up against free kicks but, if it's the keeper, he was doubly responsible at Chesterfield for a bad wall and bad goalkeeping.
Posted by: rancido, September 17, 2024, 2:36pm; Reply: 194
Quoted from Maringer


But the two against Chesterfield were from absolutely needless individual errors and you'd hope that these don't become a regular occurrence. Everyone makes a balls-up sometimes, but we're getting punished for most of them at the moment. A lot fewer of them would be nice!

The two against Barrow were just crap defending by the team and that is a bigger issue than (hopefully!), occasional individual errors.


The two against Barrow were individual errors if a defender failed to mark the striker who scored. Surely the defenders decide who marks who or are we using some kind of zone system? If that's the case then there should be better communication between them, especially the centre- backs.
Posted by: Maringer, September 17, 2024, 3:05pm; Reply: 195
Quoted from rancido


The two against Barrow were individual errors if a defender failed to mark the striker who scored. Surely the defenders decide who marks who or are we using some kind of zone system? If that's the case then there should be better communication between them, especially the centre- backs.


An aerial challenge from a corner is just that - a challenge. You can try and win them, but it's not guaranteed, even if you are up with your man. With all the shenanigans at corners these days with blocking and grappling and so forth, it often isn't possible to stop the header coming in and referees never seem to see the blocks and the tugs. Obviously, Saturday was a little different as the players were completely unmarked for their headers, but I do still think this is more of a team failing than an individual one.

The two at Chesterfield were utterly needless as the situation was almost entirely within our control. For the first, the wall was poorly placed and the shot was hit well enough, but I don't think Wright should have let it through his hands. I expect he was disappointed more about his handling than the position of the wall. The second was just daft from Rodgers. After good initial defending, he should just have booted it away. Both completely needless and more easily preventable than the two goals against Barrow.
Posted by: rancido, September 17, 2024, 3:55pm; Reply: 196
Quoted from Maringer


An aerial challenge from a corner is just that - a challenge. You can try and win them, but it's not guaranteed, even if you are up with your man. With all the shenanigans at corners these days with blocking and grappling and so forth, it often isn't possible to stop the header coming in and referees never seem to see the blocks and the tugs. Obviously, Saturday was a little different as the players were completely unmarked for their headers, but I do still think this is more of a team failing than an individual one.

The two at Chesterfield were utterly needless as the situation was almost entirely within our control. For the first, the wall was poorly placed and the shot was hit well enough, but I don't think Wright should have let it through his hands. I expect he was disappointed more about his handling than the position of the wall. The second was just daft from Rodgers. After good initial defending, he should just have booted it away. Both completely needless and more easily preventable than the two goals against Barrow.


I can think of many of our centre-backs over the last 15 seasons who would never have left that cross unchallenged. In fact we have one on our coaching staff. A failure to challenge for a cross is an individual error however your dress it up.
Posted by: sam gy, September 17, 2024, 4:24pm; Reply: 197
For what it's worth, Artell did say that McJannet was off the pitch due to injury at the time of the first (?) goal, and it was his man that scored the goal.

We still should've had it covered like.

No excuse for the other.
Posted by: AncientExiledMariner, September 17, 2024, 6:11pm; Reply: 198
Quoted from jamesgtfc


Artell has already churned out the line that improvement isn't linear a couple of times, which feels like an excuse for we may go backwards again this season. We can't regress too much in terms of league position without getting relegated, so that line does worry me when we desperately need to take a step forward this season.

For me, a good season would be finishing around 12th.


It isn't an excuse. It's a fact. When you learn something new, it doesn't perfectly improve each time. Sometimes things go well, and you build confidence, sometimes it goes badly and you learn from it so you can cut out those mistakes. Surely you've learn something new before, and know this. I don't think anyone believes it's ok to go backwards this season. League positions change quickly at this stage of the season. Back to back wins and the table looks very different.

Ultimately, to be able to play dynamic passing football, you have to know how to play safe, risky-free passes instinctively. The means sticking with it until it's muscle memory, so the thinking, the movement and the execution gets quicker and quicker each time. You can only practice this in training so much, because you'll never have the intensity in that, or the pressure, or the nasty follow through tackles, or the fans getting on your back. It's about mentally hardening the players so they can get comfortable with that on the big stage. Once that is down, you need to learn how to mix it up, for example, if they put players in to block that style of play. If they block across the CB's, it's about better using your GK to switch, or your CM. You cannot get good at it, until you practice it, and you practice it under pressure. Sometimes, it'll go wrong, but it doesn't mean the tactics do not work, it just means they need more time.

If you only remember the negatives, you're a pessimist. If you only remember the positives, you've got rose tinted spectacles. To be truly balance and realistic, you have to be able to remember the positives and negatives.
Posted by: jamesgtfc, September 17, 2024, 6:30pm; Reply: 199


It isn't an excuse. It's a fact. When you learn something new, it doesn't perfectly improve each time. Sometimes things go well, and you build confidence, sometimes it goes badly and you learn from it so you can cut out those mistakes. Surely you've learn something new before, and know this. I don't think anyone believes it's ok to go backwards this season. League positions change quickly at this stage of the season. Back to back wins and the table looks very different.

Ultimately, to be able to play dynamic passing football, you have to know how to play safe, risky-free passes instinctively. The means sticking with it until it's muscle memory, so the thinking, the movement and the execution gets quicker and quicker each time. You can only practice this in training so much, because you'll never have the intensity in that, or the pressure, or the nasty follow through tackles, or the fans getting on your back. It's about mentally hardening the players so they can get comfortable with that on the big stage. Once that is down, you need to learn how to mix it up, for example, if they put players in to block that style of play. If they block across the CB's, it's about better using your GK to switch, or your CM. You cannot get good at it, until you practice it, and you practice it under pressure. Sometimes, it'll go wrong, but it doesn't mean the tactics do not work, it just means they need more time.

If you only remember the negatives, you're a pessimist. If you only remember the positives, you've got rose tinted spectacles. To be truly balance and realistic, you have to be able to remember the positives and negatives.


Last season we finished 4th bottom on 49 points. The two relegated teams finished on 42 points a piece.

In 22/23, Hartlepool finished 23rd on 43 points. Crawley and AFC Wimbledon finished 21st and 22nd on 46 and 48 points respectively.

In 2021/22, two basketcase clubs in Scunthorpe and Oldham went down. Oldham finished 23rd on 38 points.

In 2018/19, Notts County finished 23rd on 41 points.

I fully accept that performances will peak and trough throughout the season, but when the season ends, we cannot afford to be much worse than last season.

If we are averaging less than or equal to 1 PPG at the 12, 24 or 36 game mark, it's justifiably twitchy. If we average less than or equal to it after the last game of the season, it could be catastrophic.

I fully understand that improvement isn't linear, but we don't have much room for a backwards step this season at all.
Posted by: Ruuger, September 17, 2024, 7:45pm; Reply: 200
Quoted from jamesgtfc


Last season we finished 4th bottom on 49 points. The two relegated teams finished on 42 points a piece.

In 22/23, Hartlepool finished 23rd on 43 points. Crawley and AFC Wimbledon finished 21st and 22nd on 46 and 48 points respectively.

In 2021/22, two basketcase clubs in Scunthorpe and Oldham went down. Oldham finished 23rd on 38 points.

In 2018/19, Notts County finished 23rd on 41 points.

I fully accept that performances will peak and trough throughout the season, but when the season ends, we cannot afford to be much worse than last season.

If we are averaging less than or equal to 1 PPG at the 12, 24 or 36 game mark, it's justifiably twitchy. If we average less than or equal to it after the last game of the season, it could be catastrophic.

I fully understand that improvement isn't linear, but

we don't have much room for a backwards step this season at all.


We have 40 games still to play!

Posted by: GtfcGarner, September 17, 2024, 9:07pm; Reply: 201
From what I've watched this season.. We look so much better and more quality than last season and actually have a style of play somewhat.

Some of the games so far could of easily swung in our favour and could of snatched games that have gone against us. I don't think we will pull up any trees but don't think we will be in danger either. Ye of little faith.
Posted by: Swansea_Mariner, September 17, 2024, 9:16pm; Reply: 202
We have to be more than a point  per game club simples. Jeez that's some turgid stuff, I can't see the fans putting up with more of that.
Posted by: GrimPol, September 18, 2024, 5:30pm; Reply: 203
Quoted from Ruuger


We have 40 games still to play!



Well, we will have two milestones soon. 11th round away to Salford (1/4 of the season) and 16th round away to Newport which is when we lost PH last season.
Posted by: Ruuger, September 19, 2024, 9:08am; Reply: 204
Quoted from GrimPol


Well, we will have two milestones soon. 11th round away to Salford (1/4 of the season) and 16th round away to Newport which is when we lost PH last season.


And.................?

Posted by: SheepGTFC, September 19, 2024, 9:41am; Reply: 205
i like how people will write essays on here rather than put their energy into supporting the club.

same old, same old...
Posted by: AussieMariner, September 19, 2024, 9:56am; Reply: 206
Quoted from jamesgtfc


Last season we finished 4th bottom on 49 points. The two relegated teams finished on 42 points a piece.

In 22/23, Hartlepool finished 23rd on 43 points. Crawley and AFC Wimbledon finished 21st and 22nd on 46 and 48 points respectively.

In 2021/22, two basketcase clubs in Scunthorpe and Oldham went down. Oldham finished 23rd on 38 points.

In 2018/19, Notts County finished 23rd on 41 points.

I fully accept that performances will peak and trough throughout the season, but when the season ends, we cannot afford to be much worse than last season.

If we are averaging less than or equal to 1 PPG at the 12, 24 or 36 game mark, it's justifiably twitchy. If we average less than or equal to it after the last game of the season, it could be catastrophic.

I fully understand that improvement isn't linear, but we don't have much room for a backwards step this season at all.


I think the non-linear comment is more about progress during the season than from season to season. We certainly regressed last season compared to the previous one but no-one, especially the owners, thought that was ok, and ultimately it’s why they punted Hurst.

Posted by: GrimPol, September 19, 2024, 12:24pm; Reply: 207
Quoted from Ruuger


And.................?



You can (you should|) at 1/4 stage have a good view on how its panning out, make adjustments if necessary and have the luxury of the next 1/4 to see if the adjustment works.
At round 16 you can see if DA is an upgrade to PH or just PH in disguise.
Posted by: Ruuger, September 19, 2024, 4:18pm; Reply: 208
Quoted from GrimPol


You can (you should|) at 1/4 stage have a good view on how its panning out, make adjustments if necessary and have the luxury of the next 1/4 to see if the adjustment works.
At round 16 you can see if DA is an upgrade to PH or just PH in disguise.


I don't look at seasons that are finished, they are irrelevant, over and done with, this season is all that matters to me at this moment in time.

BTW, we are not at quarter stage anyway, as quarter stage would be approximately 11 League matches.

Posted by: Abdul19, September 19, 2024, 4:34pm; Reply: 209
Quoted from Ruuger


BTW, we are not at quarter stage anyway, as quarter stage would be approximately 11 League matches.



Tbf he did say that in the post you replied to.
Posted by: 1mickylyons, September 19, 2024, 4:37pm; Reply: 210
Does Ruuger ever read a reply before commenting?
Posted by: Ruuger, September 20, 2024, 8:35am; Reply: 211
Quoted from 1mickylyons
Does Ruuger ever read a reply before commenting?


Do you?

Posted by: Ruuger, September 20, 2024, 8:40am; Reply: 212
Quoted from Abdul19


Tbf he did say that in the post you replied to.


My point is that what he said is just guessing, and another way of having a sly dig at DA, who in actual fact has already proved to be an upgrade on PH.

Posted by: GibMariner, September 20, 2024, 8:49am; Reply: 213
Quoted from Ruuger


My point is that what he said is just guessing, and another way of having a sly dig at DA, who in actual fact has already proved to be an upgrade on PH.



🤔got some to go me thinks.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 20, 2024, 8:49am; Reply: 214
Quoted from Ruuger


My point is that what he said is just guessing, and another way of having a sly dig at DA, who in actual fact has already proved to be an upgrade on PH.



Has he?

I’m by no means a Hurst apologist but he took us on a record breaking cup run and won two promotions. If DA is an upgrade on that, I must have missed something.
Posted by: Hagrid, September 20, 2024, 9:03am; Reply: 215
Quoted from Ruuger


My point is that what he said is just guessing, and another way of having a sly dig at DA, who in actual fact has already proved to be an upgrade on PH.



flipping hell I wish he was

Posted by: Zmariner, September 20, 2024, 9:08am; Reply: 216
Quoted from SheepGTFC
i like how people will write essays on here rather than put their energy into supporting the club.

same old, same old...


To balance this, there are a lot of die hard fans on here. We have not won two games in a row for I do not know how long, in fact it is very hard for us to sustain two decent performances in a row. It is alright asking everybody to put Energy into supporting the club but I think given how poor we are the Energy has been fantastic. I am hopeful for tomorrow and it is a very important game, and we must not lose it
We need Tharme and Thompson back urgently and one of our goalkeepers needs to have an average game to give us a chance. Got a good feeling about tomorrow and hopefully we can stop the rot as the games that follow are very difficult..
utm
Posted by: Maringer, September 20, 2024, 9:36am; Reply: 217
Quoted from MuddyWaters


Has he?

I’m by no means a Hurst apologist but he took us on a record breaking cup run and won two promotions. If DA is an upgrade on that, I must have missed something.


Hurst was here for 8 years. Artell hasn't been here for 10 months, yet.

Perhaps allow a little bit of time?
Posted by: Hagrid, September 20, 2024, 9:49am; Reply: 218
Quoted from Maringer


Hurst was here for 8 years. Artell hasn't been here for 10 months, yet.

Perhaps allow a little bit of time?


Muddy Waters wasnt the bloke who made the ridiculous statement was he...
Posted by: Maringer, September 20, 2024, 9:55am; Reply: 219
Quoted from Hagrid


Muddy Waters wasnt the bloke who made the ridiculous statement was he...


It's no good rebutting one ridiculous statement with another ridiculous statement!  :P
Posted by: 1mickylyons, September 20, 2024, 9:57am; Reply: 220
Quoted from Ruuger


Do you?



He clearly mentioned 11 games to judge which I agree is about a fair yardstick.
Posted by: GrimPol, September 20, 2024, 10:51am; Reply: 221
Quoted from Ruuger


My point is that what he said is just guessing, and another way of having a sly dig at DA, who in actual fact has already proved to be an upgrade on PH.



Nothing sly about my comments, they're upfront, DA was the wrong manager to employ at that time as we needed someone to hit the floor running, and he was too rusty due to being unemployed and out of  game for some time. But the decision was made hence fete accompli.
Its the second part which worries me, and that is he foisted onto players a style that they could not do, and we got thumped.
This season we have a much better squad and???
Just don't get cross and invent things about my posts when you haven't read them properly.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 20, 2024, 1:45pm; Reply: 222
Quoted from Maringer


Hurst was here for 8 years. Artell hasn't been here for 10 months, yet.

Perhaps allow a little bit of time?


I would absolutely love another extended cup run and a couple of promotions. As for the 10 month bit, you could argue that he's possibly been fortunate to still be here - not my opinion but the opinion of several fans.
Posted by: Ruuger, September 20, 2024, 2:27pm; Reply: 223
Quoted from Maringer


It's no good rebutting one ridiculous statement with another ridiculous statement!  :P


That is some peoples opinion that the statement is ridiculous, would you care to explain why you think it is ridiculous?  

Posted by: Ruuger, September 20, 2024, 2:34pm; Reply: 224
Quoted from Hagrid


Muddy Waters wasnt the bloke who made the ridiculous statement was he...


So I said that GrimPol was having another sly dig at DA, which he does all the time, how is that ridiculous?  The other thing I said was that, in my opinion DA is better than Hurst, reason being I think he has bought in better players than Hurst did, and I prefer his type of football.  None of those statements are ridiculous, but you are just one of the few on here that like to have a go at me whenever I post anything, so whatever floats your boat, but I suggest you look up the word ridiculous before you post it to describe my post.

Posted by: Ruuger, September 20, 2024, 2:39pm; Reply: 225
Quoted from GrimPol


Nothing sly about my comments, they're upfront, DA was the wrong manager to employ at that time as we needed someone to hit the floor running, and he was too rusty due to being unemployed and out of  game for some time. But the decision was made hence fete accompli.
Its the second part which worries me, and that is he foisted onto players a style that they could not do, and we got thumped.
This season we have a much better squad and???
Just don't get cross and invent things about my posts when you haven't read them properly.


I have read the rubbish that you post properly, and it's still rubbish.  Your opinion that DA was the wrong manager, is just that, your opinion.  Many, many others are happy with his appointment, and I am confident that you will be wiping egg off your face by the end of the season.

As to your silly sentence, "This season we have a better squad and???".  Six League matches played pal, 40 to go, lets see where we are when the season is over!
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 20, 2024, 2:40pm; Reply: 226
Quoted from Ruuger


So I said that GrimPol was having another sly dig at DA, which he does all the time, how is that ridiculous?  The other thing I said was that, in my opinion DA is better than Hurst, reason being I think he has bought in better players than Hurst did, and I prefer his type of football.  None of those statements are ridiculous, but you are just one of the few on here that like to have a go at me whenever I post anything, so whatever floats your boat, but I suggest you look up the word ridiculous before you post it to describe my post.



DA is operating at roughly a point a game whilst Hurst got us two promotions and an FA Cup Quarter Final. Your assertion that DA is better does seem ridiculous as things stand, I hope you end up proving us wrong because that would be quite something.
Posted by: Ruuger, September 20, 2024, 2:41pm; Reply: 227
Quoted from MuddyWaters


DA is operating at roughly a point a game whilst Hurst got us two promotions and an FA Cup Quarter Final. Your assertion that DA is better does seem ridiculous as things stand, I hope you end up proving us wrong because that would be quite something.


Six League games played!
Posted by: mimma, September 20, 2024, 2:44pm; Reply: 228
DA has brought in better players, that's indisputable. Our problem at the minute is when we don't have the ball or loose it. We look slow at getting back into position and we don't track back. Maybe getting Thompson and Davis back will solve this problem.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 20, 2024, 3:49pm; Reply: 229
Quoted from Ruuger


Six League games played!


I was actually including last season!
Posted by: Maringer, September 20, 2024, 3:51pm; Reply: 230
I think having Thompson and Davies back would solve a lot of problems! Hopefully, not too long now for Thompson as I'd imagine the midfield will take on a very different quality when he's fit and back in the team, especially in away games. He was technically pretty good as I recall, though I also thought he did tend to hold onto the ball a bit too long at times. With better players around him, there isn't any reason he shouldn't be able to move the ball on more quickly.
Posted by: Hagrid, September 20, 2024, 4:39pm; Reply: 231
Quoted from Ruuger


So I said that GrimPol was having another sly dig at DA, which he does all the time, how is that ridiculous?  The other thing I said was that, in my opinion DA is better than Hurst, reason being I think he has bought in better players than Hurst did, and I prefer his type of football.  None of those statements are ridiculous, but you are just one of the few on here that like to have a go at me whenever I post anything, so whatever floats your boat, but I suggest you look up the word ridiculous before you post it to describe my post.



Paul Hurst took this club to an FA Cup Quarter Final, Beating 5 teams from higher divisions, brought us our highest league position for 20 years and gained 2 promotions.

Artell has overseen 2 of the clubs highest home defeats in history in less than a year in charge, barely kept us in the division, and currently ( yes whilst only 6 games in) we sit 4th bottom in the league

That is why your statement is ridiculous, he has achieved nothing with the club yet
Posted by: Northbank Mariner, September 20, 2024, 5:18pm; Reply: 232
Quoted from Hagrid


Paul Hurst took this club to an FA Cup Quarter Final, Beating 5 teams from higher divisions, brought us our highest league position for 20 years and gained 2 promotions.

Artell has overseen 2 of the clubs highest home defeats in history in less than a year in charge, barely kept us in the division, and currently ( yes whilst only 6 games in) we sit 4th bottom in the league

That is why your statement is ridiculous, he has achieved nothing with the club yet


True, he hasn't overseen a relegation out the Football league as yet, which Paul Hurst did....
Posted by: GrimPol, September 20, 2024, 5:18pm; Reply: 233
Quoted from Ruuger


I have read the rubbish that you post properly, and it's still rubbish.  Your opinion that DA was the wrong manager, is just that, your opinion.  Many, many others are happy with his appointment, and I am confident that you will be wiping egg off your face by the end of the season.

As to your silly sentence, "This season we have a better squad and???".  Six League matches played pal, 40 to go, lets see where we are when the season is over!


Yes but you misread my "rubbish" post and not understood that round 11 (1/4 way) was mentioned, and round 16 was mentioned as a PH sack day. It's still on the forum site if you care to re-read.
Quite right, its my opinion, like you have your opinion, like we all have an opinion. Why is yours better than mine or anyone else's.?
Yes its 6 games only, so nobody has been relegated, but I would rather be discussing our position in the playoff zone, than discussing our position around the Plughole zone. So yes I'm disappointed, again. Not as disappointed as the Accrington/Morecambe fans are at the moment though.
So in the end we will see who is right, and who will "be wiping egg of whose face". But here's the thing Ruuger, whilst I will be more than happy to be wrong, I will not be happy at all to be right.
Posted by: Mappers, September 20, 2024, 5:41pm; Reply: 234
Quoted from Hagrid


Paul Hurst took this club to an FA Cup Quarter Final, Beating 5 teams from higher divisions, brought us our highest league position for 20 years and gained 2 promotions.

Artell has overseen 2 of the clubs highest home defeats in history in less than a year in charge, barely kept us in the division, and currently ( yes whilst only 6 games in) we sit 4th bottom in the league

That is why your statement is ridiculous, he has achieved nothing with the club yet


I think it's fair to say Hurst was a good manager for us , no doubt .

But to say Artell isn't better or done well, now is unfair .

2 totally different metrics - Hurst was a very much here and now manager , isn't going to be involved in 'a project' or stick around anywhere any length of time .

Artell we don't know yet , the truth is he did a cracking job  within a set system , hasn't managed anywhere else really but does seem to look at the 'bigger picture ' which ultimately led to him doing well at Crewe within that system , making them decent ££££ . Then it failed from 10th in league 1 (I think we would take that sort of bounce wouldn't we ?)

He also imploded at Crewe when they had to sell their best players and he(they) signed one's that went wrong .

I'm not sure what will happen , but he got pumped many a game at Crewe and took them up tbf .

6 games is too short a time to judge imo .

Posted by: Maringer, September 20, 2024, 7:51pm; Reply: 235
Current location in the table:

4 points above the relegation zone.
4 points below the play-off places.

5 teams on 6 points as it stands.
Posted by: Ruuger, September 21, 2024, 8:22am; Reply: 236
Quoted from MuddyWaters


I was actually including last season!


Why?  It's gone, can't be changed.

Posted by: HertsGTFC, September 21, 2024, 8:33am; Reply: 237
Quoted from Ruuger


So I said that GrimPol was having another sly dig at DA, which he does all the time, how is that ridiculous?  The other thing I said was that, in my opinion DA is better than Hurst, reason being I think he has bought in better players than Hurst did, and I prefer his type of football.  None of those statements are ridiculous, but you are just one of the few on here that like to have a go at me whenever I post anything, so whatever floats your boat, but I suggest you look up the word ridiculous before you post it to describe my post.



In defence of Hurst I suspect that Artell has had/has mora funds to work with.
Posted by: GollyGTFC, September 21, 2024, 8:42am; Reply: 238
Quoted from Mappers


I think it's fair to say Hurst was a good manager for us , no doubt .

But to say Artell isn't better or done well, now is unfair .

2 totally different metrics - Hurst was a very much here and now manager , isn't going to be involved in 'a project' or stick around anywhere any length of time .

Artell we don't know yet , the truth is he did a cracking job  within a set system , hasn't managed anywhere else really but does seem to look at the 'bigger picture ' which ultimately led to him doing well at Crewe within that system , making them decent ££££ . Then it failed from 10th in league 1 (I think we would take that sort of bounce wouldn't we ?)

He also imploded at Crewe when they had to sell their best players and he(they) signed one's that went wrong .

I'm not sure what will happen , but he got pumped many a game at Crewe and took them up tbf .

6 games is too short a time to judge imo .



We’re not judging Artell after 6 matches. He’s had 33 league matches so far..

Win 9 (27.3%)
Draw 9
Lost 15 (45.5%)
GD -16
Pts 36 (1.09 PPG = 50 over a 46 match season)

In comparison PH’s final 33 league matches as Town manager saw us…

Win 9 (27.3%)
Draw 11
Lost 13 (39.4%)
GD -9
Pts 38 (1.15 PPG = 53 over a 46 match season)

Artell was brought in to improve us after the previous manager was deemed to have failed. He has taken us backwards.

Artell needs a win today because it’s hard to see us take anything from the following 3 matches given our abject away form (lost 6 out of last 7 away in L2) and that we have Doncaster at BP between those games.

If we lose today it’s quite possible we’ll still be on 6 points after 10 matches. Is it okay to panic at that point? The two times we have been relegated we were on 10 & 12 points after 10 matches.

We might well suddenly start scoring goals and learn the basics of defending, but I think a decision on DA is approaching. 1878 binned off PH in October after all.

Posted by: ska face, September 21, 2024, 8:48am; Reply: 239
Long fūcking week after a loss innit?
Posted by: Northbank Mariner, September 21, 2024, 9:15am; Reply: 240
Quoted from GollyGTFC


We’re not judging Artell after 6 matches. He’s had 33 league matches so far..

Win 9 (27.3%)
Draw 9
Lost 15 (45.5%)
GD -16
Pts 36 (1.09 PPG = 50 over a 46 match season)

In comparison PH’s final 33 league matches as Town manager saw us…

Win 9 (27.3%)
Draw 11
Lost 13 (39.4%)
GD -9
Pts 38 (1.15 PPG = 53 over a 46 match season)

Artell was brought in to improve us after the previous manager was deemed to have failed. He has taken us backwards.

Artell needs a win today because it’s hard to see us take anything from the following 3 matches given our abject away form (lost 6 out of last 7 away in L2) and that we have Doncaster at BP between those games.

If we lose today it’s quite possible we’ll still be on 6 points after 10 matches. Is it okay to panic at that point? The two times we have been relegated we were on 10 & 12 points after 10 matches.

We might well suddenly start scoring goals and learn the basics of defending, but I think a decision on DA is approaching. 1878 binned off PH in October after all.


Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you....
Judging Artells stats from last season are extensively flawed, he had a squad of shite to try and get a tune of, and somehow managed to stave off relegation.
Now, we are 6 games in with 75% of the squad being his players, he's been charged with changing everyone's perception of Grimsby Town FC, our playing style abd our fortunes, so personally I'll judge his stats after 20 games of this season, that gives time for the players to gel, and really grasp how Artell wants to play.
Posted by: MuddyWaters, September 21, 2024, 9:25am; Reply: 241
Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you....
Judging Artells stats from last season are extensively flawed, he had a squad of shite to try and get a tune of, and somehow managed to stave off relegation.
Now, we are 6 games in with 75% of the squad being his players, he's been charged with changing everyone's perception of Grimsby Town FC, our playing style abd our fortunes, so personally I'll judge his stats after 20 games of this season, that gives time for the players to gel, and really grasp how Artell wants to play.


So you're saying the jury's still out? That's pretty much what everyone else has said apart from....
Posted by: Swansea_Mariner, September 21, 2024, 9:37am; Reply: 242
Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you....
Judging Artells stats from last season are extensively flawed, he had a squad of shite to try and get a tune of, and somehow managed to stave off relegation.
Now, we are 6 games in with 75% of the squad being his players, he's been charged with changing everyone's perception of Grimsby Town FC, our playing style abd our fortunes, so personally I'll judge his stats after 20 games of this season, that gives time for the players to gel, and really grasp how Artell wants to play.


That's not how Artell tells it though, even in his very latest video he was saying no way would we get relegated last year, he only had to look around the club to tell that. And no I do not think he's being diplomatic as he has doubled down multiple times on the 'told you so' respone to saying it.

Its either he did miraculously to turn around a dead duck or made it squeaky bum time with a sure thing. Can't be both at the same time.
Posted by: GollyGTFC, September 21, 2024, 9:38am; Reply: 243
Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you....
Judging Artells stats from last season are extensively flawed, he had a squad of shite to try and get a tune of, and somehow managed to stave off relegation.
Now, we are 6 games in with 75% of the squad being his players, he's been charged with changing everyone's perception of Grimsby Town FC, our playing style abd our fortunes, so personally I'll judge his stats after 20 games of this season, that gives time for the players to gel, and really grasp how Artell wants to play.


Sorry, but overall this squad isn’t better than the one he inherited.

And last season he kept us up by playing shite football. He won’t get away with that again.

Take a look at the results we’ve had playing the style of football he was brought in the implement.

After the Doncaster debacle we finished the season with 5 wins, 5 draws and 5 defeats. Take that 15 match spell of “pragmatic” football out of his record and it leaves…

4 wins
4 draws
10 defeats

…playing the style of football he was brought in to play.

If anyone thinks 1878 are going to give this guy the benefit of the doubt after being ruthless with someone who won promotion, delivered a best league finish in 17 years after having 55 days between the promotion season finishing and the next starting and delivered an incredible FA Cup run then they are deluded.

DA needs to start delivering quickly or he’ll be down the road too.
Posted by: marinerjase, September 21, 2024, 10:10am; Reply: 244
I’m inclined to agree with Golly tbh, apart from the last part. I’m not sure the owners will want to be associated with a hiring and firing reputation. They’ve openly said it’ll take time, process, journey (blah blah) - so I think they’ll support Artell. That said.. if it gets to a position where they are ‘forced’ to act.. ie bottom 2 or 3 by end of Nov..

Jury is out on Artell.. has to get a few results together soon for me. Whilst appreciating the task and what his intentions are, together with appreciating that in some ways things are improving - there are also the same old flaws also. You can’t get anywhere if you don’t stop conceding goals at an alarming rate, and you’d be silly to not think that perhaps we might be a little open, easy to get at.. and that will need to change.

Think most want Artell to do well.. and hope he does .. but it’s be folly to not understand/be open to the critiques that some have.
Posted by: Maringer, September 21, 2024, 10:18am; Reply: 245
Quoted from GollyGTFC


Sorry, but overall this squad isn’t better than the one he inherited.



Really? How many players did we have last season who could actually pass the ball accurately and retain possession in a tight spot? Conteh is about the only one I can think of and he was outta here at the first opportunity.

Our retention of possession was unutterably awful, to the degree that I can't remember us ever being as bad - we were barely able to string more than 3 passes together without coughing it up for half of the season. It's a good job that Thompson proved a capable enough replacement for Conteh because we'd have been screwed without him. Lots of graft from the likes of Holohan, Green, Andrews and Clifton, but not a single ball player among them. Hunt is just not up to league football from what I've seen so it wasn't any surprise to see him fail to win a place.

We had one or two technically decent players - Gnahoua, Eisa (when bothered) and Vernam (when fit), for example, but if they passed the ball to someone else in the midfield, we tended to lose it immediately.

Of the loan signings, Thompson and Obikwu did well, as did Smith. Didn't rate Hume (and he's only played well in a few games this season), but he wasn't any worse than Glennon and Amos wasn't great even at best (though he might have done a better job than the other two). McJannet is miles better than Maher who was really poor last season, Mullarkey did OK in a back three but poor at full-back. Amazed to see him doing well at Crawley, but perhaps that's down to having better players around him this year.

Ultimately, the current midfield is a bit less physical but are head and shoulders above last year's bunch as far as technical ability goes.

I'm disappointed we still don't have any real pace, Vernam and Warren aside and we're a little short compared to many teams in this division, but I'd rather watch us play with this style and end up in mid-table (as looks to be the likely outcome to me) than play the hit and hope football we've seen in recent years.

I was really disappointed with the way things went for Hurst but it was down to his signings who just weren't very good. The jury is out on the current team, but there has been enough good football to make me think we can do better than we have so far. We just need a bit more precision with the final ball because we've been getting in behind teams over and over again this season yet not scoring the goals our attacking play deserves.

You are more than entitled to disagree, but I'm just going from the evidence of what I've seen with my own eyes. It's unusual this season because the TV coverage means I've already seen about as many away games as I managed the past couple of seasons, but I've liked what I've seen, in general.
Posted by: rancido, September 21, 2024, 10:27am; Reply: 246
Quoted from GollyGTFC


We’re not judging Artell after 6 matches. He’s had 33 league matches so far..

Win 9 (27.3%)
Draw 9
Lost 15 (45.5%)
GD -16
Pts 36 (1.09 PPG = 50 over a 46 match season)

In comparison PH’s final 33 league matches as Town manager saw us…

Win 9 (27.3%)
Draw 11
Lost 13 (39.4%)
GD -9
Pts 38 (1.15 PPG = 53 over a 46 match season)

Artell was brought in to improve us after the previous manager was deemed to have failed. He has taken us backwards.

Artell needs a win today because it’s hard to see us take anything from the following 3 matches given our abject away form (lost 6 out of last 7 away in L2) and that we have Doncaster at BP between those games.

If we lose today it’s quite possible we’ll still be on 6 points after 10 matches. Is it okay to panic at that point? The two times we have been relegated we were on 10 & 12 points after 10 matches.

We might well suddenly start scoring goals and learn the basics of defending, but I think a decision on DA is approaching. 1878 binned off PH in October after all.



This is a totally flawed comparison. PH's last 33 league games were with his squad who he acquired, selected and were coached to play his style of football. DA acquired that squad and had very little time to fully assess their quality and what they were capable of. Much has been made of his trying to play a style of football that was beyond their abilities but it takes time to realise their strengths and weaknesses - hence the poor initial performances. After " The Meeting" a more pragmatic approach was taken and although well didn't tear up any trees we avoided relegation. For what it's worth I think PH would have seen us relegated but that is just my opinion. DA's January recruitment saw us address some of the problems and the summer recruitment has produced what is basically " his squad". The only fair comparison to be made between PH and DA would be to compare PH's last 33 league games with DA's 33 league games commencing our first league game this season. At least then you are comparing a PH chosen squad with a DA chosen squad
Posted by: IlkleyMariner, September 21, 2024, 8:40pm; Reply: 247
Personally I’m happy to be top half after 7 games
I’m happy that we have 3 or four key players on the road to being fit
I’m concerned about next three games but if we get 3 points from them I’ll be happy.

What did or did not happen under PH is currently irrelevant
Posted by: HerveJosse, September 21, 2024, 8:54pm; Reply: 248
Not learned much new today . Had the rub of the green today with penalty and their chance hitting the bar . They look like a bottom half side. Take the three points and our home form is reasonable . Need to get some away points to consolidate .
Posted by: Maringer, September 22, 2024, 12:29am; Reply: 249
If we continue to win 75% of our league games at home this season, I'm very happy to accept such 'reasonable' form. In fact, it would be better than Stockport's home form last season and that was certainly pretty reasonable as well.
Posted by: WesternMariner, September 22, 2024, 7:39am; Reply: 250
Quoted from Freemoash88
I was getting negative comments yesterday for saying we was off the mark and not playing well.

I'm not deluded and still believe (and hope) that DA can build something here but lets be honest. regardless of the 1-0 win and 3 pts the performance itself wasn't great and to be fair I believe deep down Barrow could of got something out the game. They didn't so I'm happy.

I don't know why we can't just go out and just batter teams like this at home we always look like the away team at BP



You’re on the wrong just back thread Ash - this is last weeks. We weren’t playing Barrow yesterday we were playing Bromley……… Wasn’t watching g the same game as everyone else I think someone said in the match thread - they might have had a point?
Posted by: Ruuger, September 22, 2024, 9:58am; Reply: 251
Quoted from HerveJosse
Not learned much new today . Had the rub of the green today with penalty and their chance hitting the bar . They look like a bottom half side. Take the three points and our home form is reasonable . Need to get some away points to consolidate .


Makes up for not getting the rub of the green against Notts County, eh? Rub of the Green and all that!   :)

Posted by: Ruuger, September 22, 2024, 10:02am; Reply: 252
Quoted from MuddyWaters


So you're saying the jury's still out? That's pretty much what everyone else has said apart from....


When you say 'everyone else', do you mean everyone who attends all the matches, or every supporter of GTFC worldwide, or the few who post here on the Fishy?

Posted by: Ruuger, September 22, 2024, 10:03am; Reply: 253
Quoted from IlkleyMariner
Personally I’m happy to be top half after 7 games
I’m happy that we have 3 or four key players on the road to being fit
I’m concerned about next three games but if we get 3 points from them I’ll be happy.

What did or did not happen under PH is currently irrelevant


I actually agree with this post!   8)

Posted by: grimsby pete, September 22, 2024, 3:16pm; Reply: 254
I think all town fans want Artell to succeed we all want a winning side.

It's time we had some upward movement in the league all the Wembley finals and promotions were great but non league.

We want town to be successful in the EFL.
Posted by: rancido, September 22, 2024, 4:14pm; Reply: 255
Quoted from grimsby pete
I think all town fans want Artell to succeed we all want a winning side.

It's time we had some upward movement in the league all the Wembley finals and promotions were great but non league.

We want town to be successful in the EFL.


Sadly I think that some posters want Artell to fail so they can say " I told you so , he wasn't for us". Yes, we all want a winning side and I think that soon DA will produce one but we need to be patient. It takes time to create a totally different mindset at the club but unfortunately patience is a rare commodity in a football  clubs fan base.
Posted by: denni266, September 22, 2024, 4:34pm; Reply: 256
Quoted from rancido


Sadly I think that some posters want Artell to fail so they can say " I told you so , he wasn't for us". Yes, we all want a winning side and I think that soon DA will produce one but we need to be patient. It takes time to create a totally different mindset at the club but unfortunately patience is a rare commodity in a football  clubs fan base.


I dont think any town fan. Want Artell or any other manager to fail. And i also think that the last 20 whatever years all town fans have sbown great patiience above and beyond a saint.
Posted by: rancido, September 22, 2024, 5:04pm; Reply: 257
Quoted from denni266


I dont think any town fan. Want Artell or any other manager to fail. And i also think that the last 20 whatever years all town fans have sbown great patiience above and beyond a saint.


Check out some of the posters who are anti DA. When we lose they are out and very vociferous. When we win they are noticeable by their absence.
Posted by: HatTrickHero, September 22, 2024, 6:01pm; Reply: 258
Quoted from rancido


Check out some of the posters who are anti DA. When we lose they are out and very vociferous. When we win they are noticeable by their absence.


My mind isn't sharp enough to keep a mental list of the usual suspects but from memory...Grimpol is yet to offer any credit for the win on the just back post and Yoda....does he even log in after a win?
Posted by: louth_in_the_south, September 22, 2024, 8:00pm; Reply: 259
I’m big enough to admit I’m one of DA’s critics and not convinced by him still. But do I want him to fail … ? Course not as this  means that our club is in thd sh.it yet again. If he turns us round and gets us anywhere near the top of L2 I’ll happily buy him a pint .
Posted by: 1mickylyons, September 23, 2024, 7:39am; Reply: 260
I'm on the fence with DA personally but I will say I thoroughly enjoyed seeing us win 3 out of 4 home games.Once he has z full squad available we will be a much better side Thame Thompson and Davies are 3 of our better players for sure.UTM
Posted by: Watch and Shoot, September 23, 2024, 8:41am; Reply: 261
Quoted from louth_in_the_south
I’m big enough to admit I’m one of DA’s critics and not convinced by him still. But do I want him to fail … ? Course not as this  means that our club is in thd sh.it yet again. If he turns us round and gets us anywhere near the top of L2 I’ll happily buy him a pint .


Whilst not overly critical I wouldn't say I am a fan either - I just don't get it if I am honest.

I said on Saturday it was all about the result for me - felt like we needed to win and we did so well done.

I want(ed) 15 points from the first 10 games to be satisfied
Posted by: Ruuger, September 23, 2024, 10:11am; Reply: 262
Quoted from rancido


Sadly I think that some posters want Artell to fail so they can say " I told you so , he wasn't for us". Yes, we all want a winning side and I think that soon DA will produce one but we need to be patient. It takes time to create a totally different mindset at the club but unfortunately patience is a rare commodity in a football  clubs fan base.


And this is basically what DA said when he joined us.  He never promised an instant fix and said it would take a few seasons to turn things around.

Posted by: diehardmariner, September 23, 2024, 12:44pm; Reply: 263
Quoted from GollyGTFC


Sorry, but overall this squad isn’t better than the one he inherited.


In virtually every position we've upgraded since Artell took over.  Exception is arguably centre-forward although I'd argue that the development of Gardner and/or the signing of Obikwu in favour of Pyke as 3rd/4th choice striker is an upgrade.

Goalkeeper - I'm taking Wright over Cartwright.  Not the best start from Wright but Cartwright was too early in his career to be No 1, sure he'll have a fine career but just wrong time.  

Right Back - I liked Efete and wasn't desperate to see him go.  But Warren is fine at this level and is getting better each week.  

Left Back -  Not a huge fan of Hume but seems to have played his way out of poor form and despite his lack of pace he looks like prime Usain Bolt next to Anthony Glennon.

Centre Back - Cameron McJannet is an upgrade on more or less every central defender we've had in the past 15 years, certainly on Niall Maher and that's no slight on the latter either.

Right Wing - I think in a handful of appearances JDS has already contributed more than Arthur Gnahoua did all season.

Left Wing - Vernam for Vernam.  Eisa, when he could be arsed, is better than both Vernam and Barrington but his effort dropped when the clocks went back.

Centre Mid - Thompson over Conteh, every day.  Conteh showed promise and will go for more money throughout his career than Thompson could ever dream of.  But here and now, Thompson wins.    McEachran over Hunt.  Davies over Holohan.  To my mind we've not replaced Clifton but both Khouri and Green have come on leaps under Artell, all part of the improvement.




Quoted from GollyGTFC

And last season he kept us up by playing shite football. He won’t get away with that again.



He won't need to.  We're not playing shite football (that he had to do owing to the excrement he inherited) and we won't be in a relegation scrap either. Nothing so far this season has suggested so, a bad performance doesn't equal a relegation scrap.
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