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How bad are we?

Well, this is the 73rd football season since the end of WW2...

After 9 games we have 5 points & a goal difference of -11.

We have only had 3 worse starts to the season than the current campaign...

2002/03 : 2 Pts & -12 GD (NB. Post-ITV digital collapse)
2008/09 : 3 Pts & -14 GD (Buckley III sacked after 6 games)
1962/63 : 4 Pts & -9 GD

We have scored 5 goals. The only times we have scored fewer (all 4 goals) was...

2008/09
2002/03
2000/01 (Buckley II sacked after 2 games)

Our goal difference (-11) has again only been worse 3 times...

1947/48 : -17 (Our final season in the top flight)
2008/09 : -14
2002/03 : -12

In all 3 cases this season ranks at 69 out of 73. Absolutely unacceptable

On the one hand 9 games does seem a bit early to sack a manager, but quite frankly given the results & (more importantly) performances I don't think MJ could have any complaints if Fenty & co handed him his P45 tomorrow morning.

Personally I would be in favour of biting the bullet & getting rid.

Oh and for those who are interested our 3 best first 9 games to a post-WW2 season were...

1990/91 : 22 Pts & +10 GD (Buckley I 2nd promotion season)
1960/61 : 21 Pts & +10 GD
1952/53 : 21 Pts & +10 GD (under some manager called Bill Shankley)

I always thought Bill Shankley was an imposter.

Notice how many bad stats on the Fenty watch 🤔

Quoted from GollyGTFC

How bad are we?

Well, this is the 73rd football season since the end of WW2...

After 9 games we have 5 points & a goal difference of -11.

We have only had 3 worse starts to the season than the current campaign...

2002/03 : 2 Pts & -12 GD (NB. Post-ITV digital collapse)
2008/09 : 3 Pts & -14 GD (Buckley III sacked after 6 games)
1962/63 : 4 Pts & -9 GD

We have scored 5 goals. The only times we have scored fewer (all 4 goals) was...

2008/09
2002/03
2000/01 (Buckley II sacked after 2 games)

Our goal difference (-11) has again only been worse 3 times...

1947/48 : -17 (Our final season in the top flight)
2008/09 : -14
2002/03 : -12

In all 3 cases this season ranks at 69 out of 73. Absolutely unacceptable

On the one hand 9 games does seem a bit early to sack a manager, but quite frankly given the results & (more importantly) performances I don't think MJ could have any complaints if Fenty & co handed him his P45 tomorrow morning.

Personally I would be in favour of biting the bullet & getting rid.

Oh and for those who are interested our 3 best first 9 games to a post-WW2 season were...

1990/91 : 22 Pts & +10 GD (Buckley I 2nd promotion season)
1960/61 : 21 Pts & +10 GD
1952/53 : 21 Pts & +10 GD (under some manager called Bill Shankley)

If it's stats that count we should be looking at the club's performance by chairman. Shame we can't sack him.

Get rid of Jolley and we'll just be in the same position in 12-18 months.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Get rid of Jolley and we'll just be in the same position in 12-18 months.

Or keep him and we might be in the National League in 12 months!

I fear MJ is in a death spiral and devoid of any ideas on how to change things.
We are generally worse in the second halves after his team talk.

It's the same problem as we had last season. We just can't score goals.

We had a period under Slade where we failed to score in 10 out of 15 games. The problem of not having recognised strikers who have scored goals regularly over a number of seasons is there for all to see. We should have addressed this problem no matter what the cost, because the cost of relegation is far higher.

I think if we lose convincingly on Saturday he’s gone and it’s right he could have no complaints, I wish him well.

Quoted from Grim74

I think if we lose convincingly on Saturday he’s gone and it’s right he could have no complaints, I wish him well.

And there in lies a very poignant point..."if we lose convincingly"....
Should we play good football, show some attacking prowess score a couple but still lose by a single goal then I'd more inclined to not to be so shot gun and turf him out....but, after seeing the past few games with no thought to scoring or at least having a go and we come out this weekend and play like powder puff girls, then it's obvious for all to see that Jolley does not have the ability or nouse to see what's wrong in the team, the way he plays and is clueless to what it truly means when he says...."he gets it"....

Not bad points under Shankley bearing in mind 2 points for a win in them days. :-/

Quoted from 140348

Not bad points under Shankley bearing in mind 2 points for a win in them days. :-/

Sorry old bean but you have spelt your name wrong,

There is no e in Shankly ;)

Quoted from grimsby pete

Sorry old bean but you have spelt your name wrong,

There is no e in Shankly ;)

Shame you didn't tell my father how to spell his name. Your right about Bills spelling errors. Bit bored in Suffolk are you. :(

I think Michael Jolley might be over-thinking and over-complicating things.

He's qualified up to the eyeballs in everything that is football. He's coached and helped develop a load of youngsters in the game and showed some tactical nous in his (brief) stint in Sweden.

Last season he came in, stuck to 4-4-2 and simplified the game. You could see how he settled things down and went back to basics in a way Slade promised but never delivered on.

I think Jolley compromised, to some degree, on his own tactical beliefs in order to steady a ship rather than set sail with it.

Now, it seems he's had time to assemble a squad of his own players and build it to a formation (and a set of tactics) that he's had in his mind all along. And while these tactics and formations might be forward thinking or even quite radical, they're clearly not working at this level.

I don't think I could doubt his understanding of the game, or his man-management because, as a player who never played the game professionally, you wouldn't be where he was if you didn't know everything inside out.

I think he's asking fourth division footballers to play in a way that they don't have the technical or mental ability to carry out. Some of them might be capable but, as a collective, it's not gelling.

I'm hoping that, like last season, he can compromise on what he believes and accept that he won't be able to demonstrate his credentials for the sake of playing a system that our players understand fully.

Five defeats on the trot with a chronic lack of goals is concerning - especially if you measure it against the way we finished last season. He's had 19 league games in charge of us now and we've won just 5 times.

I'm surprised by the way we've started this season but we almost need to stop what we're doing, go back to basics in the same way we did last season, and see what happens before Christmas.

A couple more defeats to nil and I fear for his future.

So I get a red cross for highlighting Shankley was spelt wrong.

Quoted from 140348

Not bad points under Shankley bearing in mind 2 points for a win in them days. :-/

I should have said that for sake of comparison all seasons prior to 1981 have been recalculated with 3 points for a win.

The most important stat is there are 37 games left in the season :)

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Or keep him and we might be in the National League in 12 months!

It'd probably just be deferring the inevitable if we replace him and if we do manage to find someone better.

Quoted from RichMariner

Last season he came in, stuck to 4-4-2and simplified the game. You could see how he settled things down and went back to basics in a way Slade promised but never delivered on.
.

Eh? We didn't play 4-4-2 under jolley last season, We played 4-3-3/4-5-1

Quoted from toontown

Eh? We didn't play 4-4-2 under jolley last season, We played 4-3-3/4-5-1

Jolley tried playing 3-5-2 and it failed miserably and then he switched and played the current 4-1-4-1 at the end of the season...

Team was something like...

McKeown

Hall-Johnson
Clarke
Collins
Fox

Rose

Clifton
Summerfield
Woolford
Hooper

Cardwell

And we didn't score many goals under MJ last season either.

MJ has had 20 league games in charge & we've only scored 17 goals in that time. And 5 of those have been penalties. So we've scored 12 goals from open play in 20 under MJ. Which is utter shite!

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Jolley tried playing 3-5-2 and it failed miserably and then he switched and played the current 4-1-4-1 at the end of the season...And we didn't score many goals under MJ last season either.

MJ has had 20 league games in charge & we've only scored 17 goals in that time. And 5 of those have been penalties. So we've scored 12 goals from open play in 20 under MJ. Which is utter shite!

Looking at those set of stats is depressing .

Quoted from 140348

Shame you didn't tell my father how to spell his name. Your right about Bills spelling errors. Bit bored in Suffolk are you. :(

It is very boring in Suffolk now Paul Hurst lives and works down here.

Quoted from cannylad68

I always thought Bill Shankley was an imposter.

Don't think Shankly ever played for Lincoln and anyway I'd say he was nowhere near as attack-minded as Oster was ;)

Quoted from GollyGTFC

On the one hand 9 games does seem a bit early to sack a manager, but quite frankly given the results & (more importantly) performances I don't think MJ could have any complaints if Fenty & co handed him his P45 tomorrow morning.

I appreciate the stats are terrible, but there have been several games where the performance has been pretty decent - much better than anything last year under Slade. I'm really hoping that Thomas will start firing soon and I think this would be helped massively if Pringle can start playing regularly - as despite his poor first touch on Saturday which led directly to their goal, you could see in the rest of the game that his first thought is to get the ball in the box.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Jolley tried playing 3-5-2 and it failed miserably and then he switched and played the current 4-1-4-1 at the end of the season...

Team was something like...

McKeown

Hall-Johnson
Clarke
Collins
Fox

Rose

Clifton
Summerfield
Woolford
Hooper

Cardwell

And we didn't score many goals under MJ last season either.

MJ has had 20 league games in charge & we've only scored 17 goals in that time. And 5 of those have been penalties. So we've scored 12 goals from open play in 20 under MJ. Which is utter shite!

If it’s stats you’re concerned with why should it matter how a goal is scored? A goal’s a goal. A point’s a point.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I appreciate the stats are terrible, but there have been several games where the performance has been pretty decent - much better than anything last year under Slade. I'm really hoping that Thomas will start firing soon and I think this would be helped massively if Pringle can start playing regularly - as despite his poor first touch on Saturday which led directly to their goal, you could see in the rest of the game that his first thought is to get the ball in the box.

I'm sure Pringle & Thomas are decent footballers but, like Woolford last season, they've come to us without a proper pre-season. How long will it take for them to be fully up to speed?

(Admittedly some that did pre-season don't look up to speed either) :o

Another stat for you - in the last 12 months, we've played 45 league games & failed to score in 23.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Jolley tried playing 3-5-2 and it failed miserably and then he switched and played the current 4-1-4-1 at the end of the season...

Team was something like...

McKeown

Hall-Johnson
Clarke
Collins
Fox

Rose

Clifton
Summerfield
Woolford
Hooper

Cardwell

And we didn't score many goals under MJ last season either.

MJ has had 20 league games in charge & we've only scored 17 goals in that time. And 5 of those have been penalties. So we've scored 12 goals from open play in 20 under MJ. Which is utter shite!

3 of those goals were in a dead end of season rubber. We have not scored any amount of goals for ages. We never get in the flipping box for a start.

Every home game we sit in the pontoon, hoping for some attacking action and... zilch. This season there has been ONE goal for us at the "home" end! Even that was a penalty.

No strikers, no creative midfielders, no wingers. It is not rocket science why we are not scoring is it? Add to that a far from convincing defence and it has got relegation written all over it.

With what we have got, players wise, Jolley will have to limp along to January hoping we pick up enough points to keep us in touch and then demand that Fenty releases enough funds to get the players he really wants or resign, or of course be sacked. The whole thing stinks; yet another season of struggle on the cards and I bet most of us are absolutely sick of it.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I appreciate the stats are terrible, but there have been several games where the performance has been pretty decent.

So you seem happy that we are still losing, but playing better in some games

Quoted from Tangerine Chris

So you seem happy that we are still losing, but playing better in some games

I'm not at all happy, I just want to see MJ given at little bit more time as I believe he can turn this around. I might be wrong but I'd rather give him another month at least before the trigger is pulled.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I'm not at all happy, I just want to see MJ given at little bit more time as I believe he can turn this around. I might be wrong but I'd rather give him another month at least before the trigger is pulled.

Well 4 weeks as now we're at home to Colchester which will be our 4th home game out of the next 6 fixtures. We need to get at least 2 wins out of these 6 - doesn't matter how - otherwise I think we're in for a long winter.

I can not remember the last time we beat Colchester.

Quoted from chrissy

I can not remember the last time we beat Colchester.

I can barely remember when we last beat anybody 8) 8)

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Another stat for you - in the last 12 months, we've played 45 league games & failed to score in 23.

That is even more depressing than the other stat.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

3 of those goals were in a dead end of season rubber. We have not scored any amount of goals for ages. We never get in the flipping box for a start.

Every home game we sit in the pontoon, hoping for some attacking action and... zilch. This season there has been ONE goal for us at the "home" end! Even that was a penalty.

No strikers, no creative midfielders, no wingers. It is not rocket science why we are not scoring is it? Add to that a far from convincing defence and it has got relegation written all over it.

With what we have got, players wise, Jolley will have to limp along to January hoping we pick up enough points to keep us in touch and then demand that Fenty releases enough funds to get the players he really wants or resign, or of course be sacked. The whole thing stinks; yet another season of struggle on the cards and I bet most of us are absolutely sick of it.

I can't disagree