Not seen this mentioned yet so thought I'd start a thread on it: http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Grimsby-Town-striker-Lenell-John-Lewis-Conference/story-22044399-detail/story.html

Essentially, it's Macca raving about what LJL brings to a team. I know he has his detractors but it is interesting to read this as if there was anyone connected with Town who's defensive knowledge and opinion I would value, then it's Macca. I would still like to see us bring in another striker as well but I do think LJL can have a good season and get around 15 for us. Especially if we stop the hoof ball and get the ball into his feet and in behind the defenders for our new speed merchants to cause problems.

He makes a good point - but fans generally know that in a big man / small man partnership it's the big man who flicks it on and holds it up while the small man tucks them away. This is nothing new.

The problem is that you get someone like Nogan, who did a similar job in Buckley's team (albeit in a higher division). I think he got just two or three goals in the 98/99 season. It left me thinking... we finished 11th, but how much better could we have done if he just managed to get nine or 10? It always feels like they should just get a few more.

There are exceptions, of course. Livvo might not have been prolific but he was a poacher as well as a target man, while Mendonca was excellent holding it up and playing with his back to goal. Gary Jones was a goal machine as the big man alongside Reddy.

So a big man *can* score goals as well as provide - I'm just not sure Hurst plays his 4-4-2 system like Buckley or Slade, which is fine, as long as the team does well.

if he gets in and around the box like he did against sunderland, and use his strength against defenders, he will no doubt score 15+

what he wont do, is skin a defender by doing a maradona roll, and bang it top corner, but not many at this level will

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

if he gets in and around the box like he did against sunderland, and use his strength against defenders, he will no doubt score 15+ what he wont do, is skin a defender by doing a maradona roll, and bang it top corner, but not many at this level will

Why didn't he do that last season?

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

if he gets in and around the box like he did against sunderland, and use his strength against defenders, he will no doubt score 15+

what he wont do, is skin a defender by doing a maradona roll, and bang it top corner, but not many at this level will

Id love him to bang in 15 but just cant see it, he still does a job for the team though

What a load of shite!!!
Baring in mind the amount of goals scored by disley and liam hearn partnering him in afew games, we scored 5 less goals with ljl and let in another 8. That's minus 13.
I hope ross hannah is gonna be the saviour this season because he's gonna need to be.
Whether ljl scores 0 or 40 I don't care. Either way the pair up front need to score a minimum of 40 goals.

Quoted from nightrider

What a load of shite!!!
Baring in mind the amount of goals scored by disley and liam hearn partnering him in afew games, we scored 5 less goals with ljl and let in another 8. That's minus 13.
I hope ross hannah is gonna be the saviour this season because he's gonna need to be.
Whether ljl scores 0 or 40 I don't care. Either way the pair up front need to score a minimum of 40 goals.

Can anyone name the last Town season where our front two strikers scored 40 league goals in total?  I have followed Town 40 years and not sure if I can name a season.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Why didn't he do that last season?

maybe Hurst told him to come deep so we can hoof it to him

Quoted from LondonMariner43

Can anyone name the last Town season where our front two strikers scored 40 league goals in total?  I have followed Town 40 years and not sure if I can name a season.

Quite. Lester, Nogan, Livvo and Clare only managed 20 and that worked out ok!

Quoted from LondonMariner43

Can anyone name the last Town season where our front two strikers scored 40 league goals in total?  I have followed Town 40 years and not sure if I can name a season.

Gary Jones (17) and Michael Reddy (20 ish) were the closest I can think off.

Quoted from Meza

Gary Jones (17) and Michael Reddy (20 ish) were the closest I can think off.

Reddy got 14.

Just a point I feel needs raising. Nothing to do with LJL himself, but I think to compare target men we've had playing for us in the Championship to ones we have now is a little daft IMO.

We forget that in those days, the objective was to stay up first and foremost. Having a big man up there helped us defend from the front, making the ball stick to him and having him on the pitch to defend as well as attack. Goals were not a total priority because we weren't after winning a league.

Switch to now and you'll find that goals are a huge priority for a side challenging for a league title. If LJL could get 15 or so goals then he'd be worth his place, so long as Hannah got 20-25 and Pitman got a few (he's an unknown quantity to me). Would it work better with two goalscorers? Luton fans would tell you yes, Mansfield would say no.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Just a point I feel needs raising. Nothing to do with LJL himself, but I think to compare target men we've had playing for us in the Championship to ones we have now is a little daft IMO.

We forget that in those days, the objective was to stay up first and foremost. Having a big man up there helped us defend from the front, making the ball stick to him and having him on the pitch to defend as well as attack. Goals were not a total priority because we weren't after winning a league.

Switch to now and you'll find that goals are a huge priority for a side challenging for a league title. If LJL could get 15 or so goals then he'd be worth his place, so long as Hannah got 20-25 and Pitman got a few (he's an unknown quantity to me). Would it work better with two goalscorers? Luton fans would tell you yes, Mansfield would say no.

The first major job of any team is not to concede, whether you are fighting relegation, mid table obscurity or chasing champions league. Barca put a huge amount into defending and they're not relegation battlers.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Just a point I feel needs raising. Nothing to do with LJL himself, but I think to compare target men we've had playing for us in the Championship to ones we have now is a little daft IMO.

We forget that in those days, the objective was to stay up first and foremost. Having a big man up there helped us defend from the front, making the ball stick to him and having him on the pitch to defend as well as attack. Goals were not a total priority because we weren't after winning a league.

Switch to now and you'll find that goals are a huge priority for a side challenging for a league title. If LJL could get 15 or so goals then he'd be worth his place, so long as Hannah got 20-25 and Pitman got a few (he's an unknown quantity to me). Would it work better with two goalscorers? Luton fans would tell you yes, Mansfield would say no.

I do agree with you Lew about not comparing LJL to Livvo etc

Quoted from LongEatonMariner

The first major job of any team is not to concede, whether you are fighting relegation, mid table obscurity or chasing champions league. Barca put a huge amount into defending and they're not relegation battlers.

I sort of agree, but I think sides set up to do that in different ways in accordance to what they want out of the game. For example Barca's whole defending style starts way way further up the pitch, it's all to do with how many and how quickly you close down the second you lose the ball. It can't really be compared to what we saw from sides in the world cup for example with sides who often didn't even want to go past the halfway line.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I sort of agree, but I think sides set up to do that in different ways in accordance to what they want out of the game. For example Barca's whole defending style starts way way further up the pitch, it's all to do with how many and how quickly you close down the second you lose the ball. It can't really be compared to what we saw from sides in the world cup for example with sides who often didn't even want to go past the halfway line.

I agree with you that too much emphasis on defence will not win us sufficient games, here's hoping Hurst gets the balance right this season, we've had a good defence for the last couple of seasons.

Quoted from LondonMariner43

Can anyone name the last Town season where our front two strikers scored 40 league goals in total?  I have followed Town 40 years and not sure if I can name a season.

Not 40 league goals, but elding(12) and Hearn(29) scored 41 between them.

Yeah but if you take off those 2 own goals Elding somehow got credited with and it doesn't count ;)

Quoted from LondonMariner43

Can anyone name the last Town season where our front two strikers scored 40 league goals in total?  I have followed Town 40 years and not sure if I can name a season.

When was the last time we've finished top with over 90points though??
Every team that wins this league has a pair of goalscorers who get 40plus
Aware that goals can come from elsewhere in the team but I can't see disley scoring as many as last year let alone more and even if he does it leaves us needing another what, 30goals?
The defence will have to be at its record breaking best

Did he offer any opinions on converting him to a holding midfielder?

To be honest I don't care how many goals the strikers score, just as long as we score more than the opposition, I don't care who scores them

While we are on the subject of scoring, it would be nice to think we will be more of a danger from set pieces this season. Whilst I thought hatton took a decent free kick does anyone know if our new signings have any dead ball skills. A few free kick goals and the odd one from a corner certainly help, but we have been weak in this area for a long time. Cannot remember anyone better than dave Gilbert at direct free kicks but happy to be corrected.

Quoted from LondonMariner43

Can anyone name the last Town season where our front two strikers scored 40 league goals in total?  I have followed Town 40 years and not sure if I can name a season.

Hearn and Elding? (One of our more successful seasons I know!)

Quoted from northbankmariner

While we are on the subject of scoring, it would be nice to think we will be more of a danger from set pieces this season. Whilst I thought hatton took a decent free kick does anyone know if our new signings have any dead ball skills. A few free kick goals and the odd one from a corner certainly help, but we have been weak in this area for a long time. Cannot remember anyone better than dave Gilbert at direct free kicks but happy to be corrected.

I don't know about the new signings but LJL was stood over one against Mansfield the other day so maybe he's our Juninho now?  

Quoted from Tom13

I don't know about the new signings but LJL was stood over one against Mansfield the other day so maybe he's our Juninho now?  

Interesting, if he could add that string to his now it would help keep his nockers quiet.

What would people prefer :

The boring 1-0 winning arsenal sides

Or

Kevin keegans gung ho approach

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

What would people prefer :

The boring 1-0 winning arsenal sides

Or

Kevin keegans gung ho approach

Easy answer to this one. The 1-0 boring approach is just what we need right now. To be solid and consistent would be the best chance for promotion. If we were a mid table division 1 side for example I'd say Kevin Keegan each week as you pay your money for excitement and to be entertained at the end of the day. I would take it as a huge compliment if away fans were singing "boring boring Grimsby" it would mean we were getting things right and were successfull

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

What would people prefer :

The boring 1-0 winning arsenal sides

Or

Kevin keegans gung ho approach

True but the last time they won the league they scored the most goals and probably had the top goalscorer.
There is a pattern here

Quoted from LondonMariner43

Can anyone name the last Town season where our front two strikers scored 40 league goals in total?  I have followed Town 40 years and not sure if I can name a season.

Problem with being one of the younger fans!! Think Tees and Brace would have achieved this in 71:72 season with Hickman and Lewis in double figures as well.

Back into hibernation now until season starts but would say still not satisfied with our central strike force for coming season but time will tell if I am wrong.

Quoted from northbankmariner

Easy answer to this one. The 1-0 boring approach is just what we need right now. To be solid and consistent would be the best chance for promotion. If we were a mid table division 1 side for example I'd say Kevin Keegan each week as you pay your money for excitement and to be entertained at the end of the day. I would take it as a huge compliment if away fans were singing "boring boring Grimsby" it would mean we were getting things right and were successfull

It's all very well saying that but how many times are we going to stop the opposition from scoring, having seen some of the crap goals we have let in recently, Matlock, Donny and Mansfield I am not sure our defence is going to be as good as some on here think.

Quoted from northbankmariner

While we are on the subject of scoring, it would be nice to think we will be more of a danger from set pieces this season. Whilst I thought hatton took a decent free kick does anyone know if our new signings have any dead ball skills. A few free kick goals and the odd one from a corner certainly help, but we have been weak in this area for a long time. Cannot remember anyone better than dave Gilbert at direct free kicks but happy to be corrected.

Lew Chatterley or Ron Cockerill - nobody wanted to be in the wall in front of them!

Quoted from pontoonlew

Just a point I feel needs raising. Nothing to do with LJL himself, but I think to compare target men we've had playing for us in the Championship to ones we have now is a little daft IMO.

We forget that in those days, the objective was to stay up first and foremost. Having a big man up there helped us defend from the front, making the ball stick to him and having him on the pitch to defend as well as attack. Goals were not a total priority because we weren't after winning a league.

Switch to now and you'll find that goals are a huge priority for a side challenging for a league title. If LJL could get 15 or so goals then he'd be worth his place, so long as Hannah got 20-25 and Pitman got a few (he's an unknown quantity to me). Would it work better with two goalscorers? Luton fans would tell you yes, Mansfield would say no.

Very good point.

Suprise suprise, someone who has played the game at a decent level and understands it rates LJL.
Here comes the crosses, but, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anyone who doesn't rate Lenny at this level doesn't understand the game.

Quoted from northbankmariner

While we are on the subject of scoring, it would be nice to think we will be more of a danger from set pieces this season. Whilst I thought hatton took a decent free kick does anyone know if our new signings have any dead ball skills. A few free kick goals and the odd one from a corner certainly help, but we have been weak in this area for a long time. Cannot remember anyone better than dave Gilbert at direct free kicks but happy to be corrected.

Yrah Diddy was ver good but for some reason he stopped taking them he was also good a penalties.   The only other set piece takers were Gallimore and Newey and possibly Kingsley Black.   At present it seems to be Hannah taking them.

Quoted from Saudimariner

Lew Chatterley or Ron Cockerill - nobody wanted to be in the wall in front of them!

My dad told me that at one game Ron struck a shot from just inside his own half and the ball went like a bullet and continued to slowly rise before hitting the back of the pontoon stand.

Quoted from Meza

My dad told me that at one game Ron struck a shot from just inside his own half and the ball went like a bullet and continued to slowly rise before hitting the back of the pontoon stand.

He wasn't called Cannonball for nothing. ;D

Quoted from Meza

Yrah Diddy was ver good but for some reason he stopped taking them he was also good a penalties.   The only other set piece takers were Gallimore and Newey and possibly Kingsley Black.   At present it seems to be Hannah taking them.

Also Menno Willems! Weird how people only remember (sweet!) left footed set piece takers.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Did he offer any opinions on converting him to a holding midfielder?

Well I thought it was funny anyway. ;D

Quoted from Abdul19

Also Menno Willems! Weird how people only remember (sweet!) left footed set piece takers.

And who could forget Peter Sweeney and Darren Barnard?!

As for right footed ones, Connell was pretty good at them wasn't he?

Quoted from Tom13

And who could forget Peter Sweeney and Darren Barnard?!

As for right footed ones, Connell was pretty good at them wasn't he?

Good point! (obviously I did)

Connell's an odd one - I think he only scored the 2 free kicks in the one game v Mansfield (although to be fair, that's probably the same amount as Barnard did in 2 years!)

Seem to remember galli scoring a screamer at Swindon in a 3-3'draw

Quoted from Abdul19

Also Menno Willems! Weird how people only remember (sweet!) left footed set piece takers.

I was saying this to my mate just the other day - left footed set piece takers are seen as a luxury. They're always described as having "a great left peg" but I very rarely hear anyone being described as having "a great right peg".

Similarly, no one says "he's got a poor touch for a small man".

Quoted from brad_gtfc

Suprise suprise, someone who has played the game at a decent level and understands it rates LJL.
Here comes the crosses, but, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anyone who doesn't rate Lenny at this level doesn't understand the game.

As someone who goes to just about every game home and away so has seen enough performances by LJL, it's my opinion that Cilla Black has a better understanding of the game than you.

Surprise Surprise.

Quoted from brad_gtfc

Suprise suprise, someone who has played the game at a decent level and understands it rates LJL.
Here comes the crosses, but, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anyone who doesn't rate Lenny at this level doesn't understand the game.

Pretty ignorant comment. Firstly I don't think you'll find many that don't see what he brings, it's whether or not that warrants a start every season. It's a common misconception amongst people who have a go at anybody that questions LJL. I want him in the squad, but you look at most target men in football in general, a high proportion don't play every game I'd they aren't a goalscorer. They are rotated in when suited and when a game requires them. I think a frustration is that we seem to do it the other way round.

I'll probably get loads of negatives yet again because people will blindly see that as 'abuse' but I'd like to think I've offered a different opinion. The people who want LJL away from the side all together are very few and far between.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Problem with being one of the younger fans!! Think Tees and Brace would have achieved this in 71:72 season with Hickman and Lewis in double figures as well.

Back into hibernation now until season starts but would say still not satisfied with our central strike force for coming season but time will tell if I am wrong.

The interesting thing here is that Lawrie McMenemy was a centre half (and a non league centre half at that!)....so much for the theories that you need to be a striker to coach strikers!!

Quoted from pontoonlew

Pretty ignorant comment. Firstly I don't think you'll find many that don't see what he brings, it's whether or not that warrants a start every season. It's a common misconception amongst people who have a go at anybody that questions LJL. I want him in the squad, but you look at most target men in football in general, a high proportion don't play every game I'd they aren't a goalscorer. They are rotated in when suited and when a game requires them. I think a frustration is that we seem to do it the other way round.

I'll probably get loads of negatives yet again because people will blindly see that as 'abuse' but I'd like to think I've offered a different opinion. The people who want LJL away from the side all together are very few and far between.

Your right it was a pretty arrogant comment, do apologise, just fed up of the constant slagging off he gets to be honest. As Hurst has said if you ask anybody in the squad if they want him in the team, they say yes & I'd bet any defender would rather play against Hannah, Southwell, Cook than LJL.

Quoted from brad_gtfc

Your right it was a pretty arrogant comment, do apologise, just fed up of the constant slagging off he gets to be honest. As Hurst has said if you ask anybody in the squad if they want him in the team, they say yes & I'd bet any defender would rather play against Hannah, Southwell, Cook than LJL.

People do understand what he brings to the team, just that they don't think it's enough. It isn't like he didn't get the chances to score, but his composure is so poor that he fluffed many 'sitters'.

We didn't score nearly enough goals up front last seasons so you can't expect people to not question Hurst's logic of him being the first name on the team sheet. The teams that win leagues have players that can do a similar job to the Shop, but also score goals.

Interesting in a way that LJL is the subject of so much debate and I believe Pontoon Lew's most recent comment is pretty much how most of us see it, he is  great man to have in the squad but should he be automatically the first choice. My other point is that with LJL taking up so much of the debate Hannah's performances often slip under the radar. For me since his permanent signing he has been disappointing particularly how often he is caught offside, his inability to hold the ball and what I would regard as a lack of good movement both off the ball & when looking for some through passes from midfield. Appreciate his supply from out wide and from midfield has not always been of the best quality however, I recall some real quality crosses going in, particularly from Thomas, towards the end of the season which nobody got near. Maybe if LJL had played a whole season with Hearn we would be happier with his contribution, anyway that is speculation but I would like to see a quality striker for this level on our books sooner rather than later, and I expect I am not alone in that.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Interesting in a way that LJL is the subject of so much debate and I believe Pontoon Lew's most recent comment is pretty much how most of us see it, he is  great man to have in the squad but should he be automatically the first choice. My other point is that with LJL taking up so much of the debate Hannah's performances often slip under the radar. For me since his permanent signing he has been disappointing particularly how often he is caught offside, his inability to hold the ball and what I would regard as a lack of good movement both off the ball & when looking for some through passes from midfield. Appreciate his supply from out wide and from midfield has not always been of the best quality however, I recall some real quality crosses going in, particularly from Thomas, towards the end of the season which nobody got near. Maybe if LJL had played a whole season with Hearn we would be happier with his contribution, anyway that is speculation but I would like to see a quality striker for this level on our books sooner rather than later, and I expect I am not alone in that.

Definitely agree about Hannah, been very disappointed with him.

Quoted from davmariner

People do understand what he brings to the team, just that they don't think it's enough. It isn't like he didn't get the chances to score, but his composure is so poor that he fluffed many 'sitters'.

We didn't score nearly enough goals up front last seasons so you can't expect people to not question Hurst's logic of him being the first name on the team sheet. The teams that win leagues have players that can do a similar job to the Shop, but also score goals.

He didn't fluff as many sitters as Hannah, I got to about 12 games last season and saw him miss 4 one on ones when clean through with time to pick his spot and that goal at Alfreton was a pure fluke as he totally mishit it.

Quoted from Madeleymariner

He didn't fluff as many sitters as Hannah, I got to about 12 games last season and saw him miss 4 one on ones when clean through with time to pick his spot and that goal at Alfreton was a pure fluke as he totally mishit it.

Been poor Hannah last season, but don't think Hannah missed more than LJL. He should've had 25 goals last year from the home games alone, and I never missed a game.

But was Hannah offside more than LJL? Those could be classed as chances missed, and they add up to far more that the 25 LJL could have had. It was pretty much a case of "Hannah.... offside" being two words fairly well connected.

Face it, last season, none of our strikers covered themselves in glory.

However, composure in front of goal is not helped by the constant sniping, either for LJL or Hannah - hopefully as confidence gains, all of our strikeforce may feed on that and (re)discover their shooting boots.