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Quoted from ancientmariner54

How often do you overule your boss at work ?

I don't over rule my boss, but I have an open dialogue where I can put across my thoughts, and if I believe there's a better way we discuss it...ffs, it's a football club not a bloody dictatorship.
And for the record, I've been saying we needed a complete clear out of the old guard, Pearson is not ready for management yet and certainly not with a team low on confidence. Stockwood should not have put a caveat on a manager that Shaun n Ben were retained, you've undermined him before he's even started!!..

Quoted from GrimRob

Absolutely. Take our time actually finding a new manager not picking the first person we thought of and pretending to do "due diligence"

This

Quoted from ancientmariner54

How often do you overule your boss at work ?

Yoda’s still on a paper round - there’s not much scope for discussing business strategy.

We can't get any worse than we are currently. If we don't get rid of Artell then we're down, there is no way this team under him is going to pick up more than 2 or 3 more points this season.

HHHmmmm we are in a pickle, passions are boiling up They are an option, IF the Squad have faith, trust in them and willing to play for them to save our bacon and stop us going down again like "Whores Draws!" As a supporter looking over the fence wondering whats going on in the dressing room on a Saturday afternoon or on the training ground during the week.
My next games i am going to i think i will be crossing me fingers and toes!!
UTM

At this stage might as well just ask the players who they are prepared to play for and go with that to the end of the season then bin the lot off.

Quoted from ancientmariner54

We didn't lose under them

Yeah right, how many games? And please don't count the two games against the part timers. They are part of this, and not just for with DA, but also with PH too. We need experience, not inexperience.

Quoted from TAGG

What experienced like David Artell??

SP and BD should have been kept in place after Hurst went, we would have never been in this position.

Supposition!

possibly the best way forward he's almost certainly lost the players & possibly the staff as well , he's so stubborn he will get us relegated if allowed to continue

SP and BD have to be the least worst option at this stage of the season. That might be damning them with faint praise but I think they could make a positive difference just by not being Artell in that changing room. Review the position again at the end of the season.

Probally get fedup of me posting these, but . . . in hindsight, maybe the logical thing to do was to wait a few more weeks, to see how Ben and Shaun would get along, on the back of a win and two draws.

Will we never learn about promoting from inside the club? I've said before, at this moment in time we do not need an inexperienced pair managing the club, we need someone with experience who can get us out of this mess we are in.

If I remember rightly, in league and cup games under S&B:
Played 5, won 2, drawn 3 lost 0 and the MK Dons draw was pretty much down to them too as Artell only came in the day before. I’d take that now, that’s for sure!

Quoted from Mariner56

If I remember rightly, in league and cup games under S&B:
Played 5, won 2, drawn 3 lost 0 and the MK Dons draw was pretty much down to them too as Artell only came in the day before. I’d take that now, that’s for sure!

It's a bit blinkered though. We beat Morecambe which was a good result. The other 4 games were against teams where a win was expected and they only got one.

I'd take draws against FGR and Sutton right now, but let's not pretend they'd be good results

Quoted from pen penfras

It's a bit blinkered though. We beat Morecambe which was a good result. The other 4 games were against teams where a win was expected and they only got one.

I'd take draws against FGR and Sutton right now, but let's not pretend they'd be good results

Yes of course, I’m not denying that. However, I’m not convinced if we were to play the same 5 games again under Artell, that we would have the same success, I’d be fearful of even playing Slough at the moment. I’m not trying to say their set of results would have turned us into play off contenders, but at the time they steadied the ship and I would happily take that for now.

It's really tricky, I feel Artell has to go, it hasn't worked and is getting worse. We would struggle to replace him and I'm fearing a Nicky Law situation.

Shaun and Ben showed that they are a steady hand, the players seemed comfortable and organised under them. But this is a massive job, huge pressure and not how you'd want to start someone's managerial career.

We know they are 2 good characters and good people. I'm not sure their is another option.

I do know that Shaun is very popular with the players so that would bring a regrouping and togetherness spirit, which would help, but I don’t think Pearson has his UEFA Pro Licence - although I’m not certain about that, so I don’t know if he could be anything but a caretaker. It’s a tough one because I’m not at all convinced that it’s wise to go into a relegation battle with inexperienced, possibly unqualified caretakers, but you have to balance that with the fact that it is glaringly obvious that it isn’t working with Artell, and I don’t think it can either. Not now. He’s lost pretty much everyone and there’s no sign that he can transform the situation. Quite the opposite in fact. I favour the view that we should end this now, and try to bring in an experienced manager swiftly. If we could do that in 2-3 weeks, we can try to exploit the bounce by the Sutton game. Even if we take a bit longer we will still have 10 or so games to save the season under someone competent who the fans can rally around.

Artell said yesterday that we all must stick together. I get that he’s subconsciously deflecting some responsibility to make it bearable for himself but I don’t believe we can now. Check out the howling boos that greeted every p1ss weak goal we’ve conceded in the last few weeks. The mass desertion of BP after goals 3,4, and 5 yesterday. The body language of the staff, and confused inept performances from the players. It’s gone, and the owners must act today or tomorrow. It’s a big call but it needs making.

Quoted from chaos33

I do know that Shaun is very popular with the players so that would bring a regrouping and togetherness spirit, which would help, but I don’t think Pearson has his UEFA Pro Licence - although I’m not certain about that, so I don’t know if he could be anything but a caretaker. It’s a tough one because I’m not at all convinced that it’s wise to go into a relegation battle with inexperienced, possibly unqualified caretakers, but you have to balance that with the fact that it is glaringly obvious that it isn’t working with Artell, and I don’t think it can either. Not now. He’s lost pretty much everyone and there’s no sign that he can transform the situation. Quite the opposite in fact. I favour the view that we should end this now, and try to bring in an experienced manager swiftly. If we could do that in 2-3 weeks, we can try to exploit the bounce by the Sutton game. Even if we take a bit longer we will still have 10 or so games to save the season under someone competent who the fans can rally around.

Artell said yesterday that we all must stick together. I get that he’s subconsciously deflecting some responsibility to make it bearable for himself but I don’t believe we can now. Check out the howling boos that greeted every p1ss weak goal we’ve conceded in the last few weeks. The mass desertion of BP after goals 3,4, and 5 yesterday. The body language of the staff, and confused inept performances from the players. It’s gone and the owners must act today or tomorrow. It’s a big call but it needs making.

It's so tricky and not an easy fix. We run the risk of a Nicky Law situation. I'm not sure what managers would fancy it.

It’s an attractive job if you emphasise potential. Get the club safe then start next season with one of the biggest clubs in L2 with all of the opportunities that brings. Look at Barrow and Harrogate up there in the play off picture. Titchy clubs with meagre resources, little stadiums and no fans. Morecambe, Crawley, Accrington….all competitive and in with a shot. This club is a sleeping giant in L2, and a prospective manager would do well to take that meta perspective. Save us from relegation - big tick on your CV, then build your own team under great owners, with big support that can challenge for promotion and not be out of place in L1. I get that it’s risky if you don’t pull off the escape bit in the short term, but if you’re out of work, what have you got to lose?

Quoted from chaos33

It’s an attractive job if you emphasise potential. Get the club safe then start next season with one of the biggest clubs in L2 with all of the opportunities that brings. Look at Barrow and Harrogate up there in the play off picture. Titchy clubs with meagre resources, little stadiums and no fans. Morecambe, Crawley, Accrington….all competitive and in with a shot. This club is a sleeping giant in L2, and a prospective manager would do well to take that meta perspective. Save us from relegation - big tick on your CV, then build your own team under great owners, with big support that can challenge for promotion and not be out of place in L1. I get that it’s risky if you don’t pull off the escape bit in the short term, but if you’re out of work, what have you got to lose?

There's a lot to lose if you come in and can't turn it around, anyone with a good reputation is unlikely to risk it.
Can't sign anyone and we are in free fall. You're only taking this if you're desperate. Our relegation on your CV is a career killer. We are a different prospect safe and in the summer.

If you’re an unemployed manager you’re already deemed a failure in your last post. Vacancies don’t arise at clubs doing well, and if they do, then those sacked for failing in recent posts are at a competitive disadvantage. The only way to mend your professional reputation is to take a risk and get back in the game. Struggling clubs sack managers. There is a a mutual sense that both parties are taking a punt. It’s how it is.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

It's so tricky and not an easy fix. We run the risk of a Nicky Law situation. I'm not sure what managers would fancy it.

Artell’s had a game more than Nicky Law had in the Town dugout, but his record is already palpably worse (win % - PPG)

Dave Artell - 15.4% - 0.77
Nicky Law - 25.0% - 0.92

In Law’s 12 games in charge, we conceded 21 goals. Artell has managed that in just the last 6.

Quoted from Poojah

Artell’s had a game more than Nicky Law had in the Town dugout, but his record is already palpably worse (win % - PPG)

Dave Artell - 15.4% - 0.77
Nicky Law - 25.0% - 0.92

In Law’s 12 games in charge, we conceded 21 goals. Artell has managed that in just the last 6.

I'm completely convinced Artell needs to go. The stats only add to the disaster unfolding in front of my eyes.

I'm just not sure whether the answer is a caretakers or bringing someone in. I suppose it is who is available.

Of the things we know, I think it is fair to say the players responded positively to Shaun and Ben.

I do remember the season we got relegated under Law, did we bring him in when Rodger had won 3 and lost 3 in his 6 game caretaker stint? Or have I imagined that?

Quoted from headingly_mariner

We would struggle to replace him and I'm fearing a Nicky Law situation.

We're in the Nicky Law situation now with David Artell, The only difference is NL was given a 3 month contract. For some reason we gave DA a 32 month contract.

The similarities are remarkable...

We sacked Paul Groves / Paul Hurst.

We put Graham Rodger / Shaun Pearson & Ben Davies in charge as caretaker manager.

GR won 3 & lost 3 out of 6 league matches (1.5 points per game)./ SP & BD won 1 & drew 2 out of 3 league matches (1.67 points per game).

We appointed Nicky Law / David Artell as permanent manager.

Nicky Law managed 11 points from 12 matches (0.917 PPG) / David Artell has achived 10 points from 12 league matches (0.833 PPG)

Nicky Law had goal diffeence of minus 10 from his 12 league matches / David Artell has goal difference of minus 11 from his 12 league matches.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

I'm completely convinced Artell needs to go. The stats only add to the disaster unfolding in front of my eyes.

I'm just not sure whether the answer is a caretakers or bringing someone in. I suppose it is who is available.

Of the things we know, I think it is fair to say the players responded positively to Shaun and Ben.

I do remember the season we got relegated under Law, did we bring him in when Rodger had won 3 and lost 3 in his 6 game caretaker stint? Or have I imagined that?

I’m not one to hit the owners over the head regarding their supposed use of data, but all of the stats on Artell are diabolically bad. How anyone could look at the numbers, on top of what we can see objectively with our eyes, and conclude that sticking with him is the right course of action is beyond me.

This is a difficult moment for the owners, I get that. But failure to take evasive action akin to letting us sleepwalk into far more uncomfortable and damaging times.

Apparently the lights are on at cheapside, so a sacking doesn’t look on. Going to have a drive past and see what’s happening…….

Quoted from GollyGTFC

We're in the Nicky Law situation now with David Artell, The only difference is NL was given a 3 month contract. For some reason we gave DA a 32 month contract.

The similarities are remarkable...

We sacked Paul Groves / Paul Hurst.

We put Graham Rodger / Shaun Pearson & Ben Davies in charge as caretaker manager.

GR won 3 & lost 3 out of 6 league matches (1.5 points per game)./ SP & BD won 1 & drew 2 out of 3 league matches (1.67 points per game).

We appointed Nicky Law / David Artell as permanent manager.

Nicky Law managed 11 points from 12 matches (0.917 PPG) / David Artell has achived 10 points from 12 league matches (0.833 PPG)

Nicky Law had goal diffeence of minus 10 from his 12 league matches / David Artell has goal difference of minus 11 from his 12 league matches.

Football is like politics. Everything has happened before. So much can be learned by studying history. Personally l think bringing in an outsider is the wrong way to go. I think the players/coaches are more likely to respond positively to self healing as a group rather than someone coming in with yet another set of ideas

Quoted from GollyGTFC

We're in the Nicky Law situation now with David Artell, The only difference is NL was given a 3 month contract. For some reason we gave DA a 32 month contract.

The similarities are remarkable...

We sacked Paul Groves / Paul Hurst.

We put Graham Rodger / Shaun Pearson & Ben Davies in charge as caretaker manager.

GR won 3 & lost 3 out of 6 league matches (1.5 points per game)./ SP & BD won 1 & drew 2 out of 3 league matches (1.67 points per game).

We appointed Nicky Law / David Artell as permanent manager.

Nicky Law managed 11 points from 12 matches (0.917 PPG) / David Artell has achived 10 points from 12 league matches (0.833 PPG)

Nicky Law had goal diffeence of minus 10 from his 12 league matches / David Artell has goal difference of minus 11 from his 12 league matches.

Those figures don't lie! Maybe the answer is back to the caretakers.

I completely agree he's got to go.

Quoted from Poojah

I’m not one to hit the owners over the head regarding their supposed use of data, but all of the stats on Artell are diabolically bad. How anyone could look at the numbers, on top of what we can see objectively with our eyes, and conclude that sticking with him is the right course of action is beyond me.

This is a difficult moment for the owners, I get that. But failure to take evasive action akin to letting us sleepwalk into far more uncomfortable and damaging times.

We've had data for ages. We even had a data analyst about the first promotion time, but whoever the manager was when he left wanted to do it himself. Most data is collected by a third party that all clubs pay a fee to access. Then we've had the GPS vests since Hurst first time around for internal analysis.

This whole data being shoved down our throats is a massive red herring. Everybody has it, everybody uses it and not everybody gets it right. We're probably spending more on it and getting it more wrong than ever. But it's not new and forward thinking ideas, we were always doing it one way or another.

Quoted from Poojah

I’m not one to hit the owners over the head regarding their supposed use of data, but all of the stats on Artell are diabolically bad. How anyone could look at the numbers, on top of what we can see objectively with our eyes, and conclude that sticking with him is the right course of action is beyond me.

This is a difficult moment for the owners, I get that. But failure to take evasive action akin to letting us sleepwalk into far more uncomfortable and damaging times.

He has to be sacked, there is no doubt. It's quite telling that lots of people who are usually patient want the club to pull the trigger.

Quoted from oochiad

Apparently the lights are on at cheapside, so a sacking doesn’t look on. Going to have a drive past and see what’s happening…….

I can’t and don’t want to believe that Artell’s sacking isn’t imminent. Has a manager had a run of such defensive and organisational capitulation and survived before?

Quoted from GrimRob

Football is like politics. Everything has happened before. So much can be learned by studying history. Personally l think bringing in an outsider is the wrong way to go. I think the players/coaches are more likely to respond positively to self healing as a group rather than someone coming in with yet another set of ideas

Whichever way you go it's a gamble. The data they had on Artell doesn't mean anything, as it all happened in different circumstances and at a different time with different players. You have to look beyond data and the practicalities of the situation at hand and it appears we chose the wrong man for the wrong time, despite taking a proper amount of time over the appointment. You may well be right and the next gamble would be to allow the people already there who know whats gone on try to put it right, but of course it is still a gamble.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

He has to be sacked, there is no doubt. It's quite telling that lots of people who are usually patient want the club to pull the trigger.

There’s a time and a place for patience, and it’s not here and now. You look at the table, look at the last 6 games and then look at the next 6 on the fixture list, and the only conclusion that can be reached is that an immediate change is needed. In fact, let’s look at the next 8 games coming up:

Morecambe (10th) - A
Forest Green (23rd) - H
Wimbledon (8th) - A
Sutton (24th) - A
MK Dons (5th) - H
Gillingham (11th) - A
Wrexham (3rd’) - H
Barrow (6th) - A

Only 2 of our next 8 don’t involve sides currently in the top 11, and those are against the two sides chasing us to avoid relegation. If you assume that even with an improvement in performances we’re unlikely to pick up many points from those top-half sides, then you begin to appreciate just how pivotal those games against FGR and Sutton are. As an absolute minimum we need 4 points from those 2 games; any less signals disaster.

In writing this post I’ve come to realise that things are even dicier than I had thought. Failing to change now is accepting our fate as a National League outfit once again.

Quoted from mariner91

I can’t and don’t want to believe that Artell’s sacking isn’t imminent. Has a manager had a run of such defensive and organisational capitulation and survived before?

Well I’ve been past, not a full call in but 8 cars and people wandering about the carpark on phones. I’m surprised nothing hasn’t happened regarding sacking but can only assume the problem maybe in paying him off……

Quoted from Poojah

There’s a time and a place for patience, and it’s not here and now. You look at the table, look at the last 6 games and then look at the next 6 on the fixture list, and the only conclusion that can be reached is that an immediate change is needed. In fact, let’s look at the next 8 games coming up:

Morecambe (10th) - A
Forest Green (23rd) - H
Wimbledon (8th) - A
Sutton (24th) - A
MK Dons (5th) - H
Gillingham (11th) - A
Wrexham (3rd’) - H
Barrow (6th) - A

Only 2 of our next 8 don’t involve sides currently in the top 11, and those are against the two sides chasing us to avoid relegation. If you assume that even with an improvement in performances we’re unlikely to pick up many points from those top-half sides, then you begin to appreciate just how pivotal those games against FGR and Sutton are. As an absolute minimum we need 4 points from those 2 games; any less signals disaster.

In writing this post I’ve come to realise that things are even dicier than I had thought. Failing to change now is accepting our fate as a National League outfit once again.

And that time for patience is actually most of the time, but not in this case. The results are so drastic the change has to be made.

The positives for whoever comes in is that we do have some good players, regardless of what some will say.
We are capable of scoring and usually score which is a problem for most struggling teams. Our issue is defending and I am convinced it is linked to which team is picked, the training and instructions.
I don't have the same fears as under Newell that the players are unprofessional or don't care. They aren't led but someone who can organise them.

We need to focus on players knowing what their job is and play to our strengths. Take the young loanees out of the firing line and grind a few results out.
A point a game to the end of the season will easily do us with a 6 point cushion, probably less. We need to be looking to drag other teams into it rather than making it a 2 of 3 situation.

I'll be amazed if he's not gone today or tomorrow.

Quoted from chaos33

It’s an attractive job if you emphasise potential. Get the club safe then start next season with one of the biggest clubs in L2 with all of the opportunities that brings. Look at Barrow and Harrogate up there in the play off picture. Titchy clubs with meagre resources, little stadiums and no fans. Morecambe, Crawley, Accrington….all competitive and in with a shot. This club is a sleeping giant in L2, and a prospective manager would do well to take that meta perspective. Save us from relegation - big tick on your CV, then build your own team under great owners, with big support that can challenge for promotion and not be out of place in L1. I get that it’s risky if you don’t pull off the escape bit in the short term, but if you’re out of work, what have you got to lose?

This was most likely Artells reasoning for coming here. Whilst Town arent a massive club, they certainly arent tinpot either. We should be a middling L1 club....

To answer the subject matter; If we assume that these players are capable and able to perform much better than what they are currently showing then maybe giving Artell the shove and reinstating Pearson and Davies as a way to reinvigorate the squad, then yes that could work.

But look at this way, surely the job at Grimsby is now much much larger and will require an experienced manager. This is not
oct-Nov 2023

Generally i would be reluctant to give such responsibility to 2 men whose results were dropping off last time and also to 2 men that have over seen this debacle.

We need a clean slate

Quoted from oochiad

Well I’ve been past, not a full call in but 8 cars and people wandering about the carpark on phones. I’m surprised nothing hasn’t happened regarding sacking but can only assume the problem maybe in paying him off……

I'm sure the contracts now have clauses in that managers at this level don't get the full pay off.

Quoted from Poojah

There’s a time and a place for patience, and it’s not here and now. You look at the table, look at the last 6 games and then look at the next 6 on the fixture list, and the only conclusion that can be reached is that an immediate change is needed. In fact, let’s look at the next 8 games coming up:

Morecambe (10th) - A
Forest Green (23rd) - H
Wimbledon (8th) - A
Sutton (24th) - A
MK Dons (5th) - H
Gillingham (11th) - A
Wrexham (3rd’) - H
Barrow (6th) - A

Only 2 of our next 8 don’t involve sides currently in the top 11, and those are against the two sides chasing us to avoid relegation. If you assume that even with an improvement in performances we’re unlikely to pick up many points from those top-half sides, then you begin to appreciate just how pivotal those games against FGR and Sutton are. As an absolute minimum we need 4 points from those 2 games; any less signals disaster.

In writing this post I’ve come to realise that things are even dicier than I had thought. Failing to change now is accepting our fate as a National League outfit once again.

When you look at that you could argue that the next 4 games could make or break our season. At least 7 or 8 points including beating FGR & Sutton and we could open a sizeable gap. A couple of points or less and losing to both FGR & Sutton and we're in despearate, desperate trouble.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

When you look at that you could argue that the next 4 games could make or break our season. At least 7 or 8 points including beating FGR & Sutton and we could open a sizeable gap. A couple of points or less and losing to both FGR & Sutton and we're in despearate, desperate trouble.

Yep, with each round of matches that goes by, the situation starts to look bleaker and bleaker. The owners can’t just stand idly by and allow that to continue until it is simply too late.

I don't think we should change, but if we do, I hope the owners let the new boss pick their own assistant. Hurst, Pep etc. have mentioned in the past that often the assistant will have different ideas and challenge the manager. The decisions are good because of scrutiny and debate. I like BD and SP. They're lovely guys. I hope they stay on as coaches, but right now, we cannot afford inexperience. We need someone who's seen it before and been involved in improving a situation.

I also hope that while they state how they want to play long term, they give the manager the choice to be pragmatic and not impose a style, especially in this context.

I’d give it to SP and BD and tell Artell to stay at home for rest of season.

I would have a clear out of everybody including stats guy.
Pearson and Davies are more of the same and an easy touch for our lazy players.
Get a full new back room team in kick some behind and get them playing.

Quoted from Yoda

I would have a clear out of everybody including stats guy.
Pearson and Davies are more of the same and an easy touch for our lazy players.
Get a full new back room team in kick some behind and get them playing.

It’s a good job nobody takes you seriously then you muppet. As if any sane person would conclude that the thing to do now would be to dismiss half a dozen people leaving no managerial or professional coaching staff and a recruitment challenge that was off the scale.
Yeah let’s go into the next run of crucial matches with nobody in charge, but then get six people in, including a manager, assistant, a couple of coaches, a goalkeeper coach and other ancillary or analyst/admin staff, just like that. You melt.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

We need a proper experienced manager in sorry no expense spared at this point, its got to be fast and likely expensive to get a tune out of these misfits

Where do you think managers come from , there isn't a cupboard marked "MANAGERS" somewhere. They all start at the bottom ,some make it and some don't, but they have to be given the opportunity. Shaun and Ben made a good start and D.As best results came on the end of their tenure ,when i assume they would still have a significant input to the team and set-up. In the more recent games when you would imagine D.A. has implemented more of his own ideas we've nosedived. Throwing money at something doesn't guarantee success, neither does a "NAME "manager e.g. Hollowhead. It's always the same , right man, right place, right time. e.g. Sir Alan. U.T.M.

We have a full managerial set up now and it’s useless can it get any worse.
We have the worst managerial team in the whole of England and Wales that is evident.

I’m sick to the back teeth of my club being taken advantage of by charlatan managers. All the effort that previous players, managers, staff and fans put in is all going to excrement. Thanks a lot Artell.

For me it’s the only option. Obviously in an ideal world you’d like to recruit someone and bring them in. However we have to look at where we are and the circumstances we find ourselves in.

I’ve been thinking the last few days, is the decent (relatively speaking) start Artell had more to do with Ben and Shaun than him?

When they took over they did a bloody good job in stopping the rot and I’d argue had a very successful spell when considering what had gone before.

They went 5 unbeaten taking 5 points from 9 in the league. When Artell came in he enjoyed a few decent away points and a home win early on. After that - nothing much else and things started to get worse.

The last 18 look like this (all comps):

9 games after Hurst - 3 wins, 5 draws, 1 defeat. Scored: 18 Conceded: 13 (Ben and Shaun - 5 games, 2 wins and 3 draws)

9 games after that - 1 win, 2 draws, 6 defeats. Scored: 13 Conceded: 25

The team is obviously going backwards and getting worse the longer this goes on. Seemingly the longer Artell has with them the worse we get. Is the drop off due to having ‘more Artell’?

As I said it isn’t ideal. However if you asked me who I trusted to get us out of this out of those options available. Shaun and Ben win hands down.

Quoted from Mikey_345

For me it’s the only option. Obviously in an ideal world you’d like to recruit someone and bring them in. However we have to look at where we are and the circumstances we find ourselves in.

I’ve been thinking the last few days, is the decent (relatively speaking) start Artell had more to do with Ben and Shaun than him?

When they took over they did a bloody good job in stopping the rot and I’d argue had a very successful spell when considering what had gone before.

They went 5 unbeaten taking 5 points from 9 in the league. When Artell came in he enjoyed a few decent away points and a home win early on. After that - nothing much else and things started to get worse.

The last 18 look like this (all comps):

9 games after Hurst - 3 wins, 5 draws, 1 defeat. Scored: 18 Conceded: 13 (Ben and Shaun - 5 games, 2 wins and 3 draws)

9 games after that - 1 win, 2 draws, 6 defeats. Scored: 13 Conceded: 25

The team is obviously going backwards and getting worse the longer this goes on. Seemingly the longer Artell has with them the worse we get. Is the drop off due to having ‘more Artell’?

As I said it isn’t ideal. However if you asked me who I trusted to get us out of this out of those options available. Shaun and Ben win hands down.

Two of them against a team of part timers. They have both been part of the backroom staff for the whole of this time from when things started going wrong, they have to take some of the blame too. Putting inexperienced people in as managers when we are in this position is one hell of a risk. We need an experienced manager who knows League Two.

Quoted from 123614

Two of them against a team of part timers. They have both been part of the backroom staff for the whole of this time from when things started going wrong, they have to take some of the blame too. Putting inexperienced people in as managers when we are in this position is one hell of a risk. We need an experienced manager who knows League Two.

Do you have any opinions of your own or just happy contradicting and/or questioning other posters contributions? Come on tell us if you want Artell to stay or if not who should replace him?

Do you have any suggestions BAWB? That’s not a dig but we have an experienced manager who knows league 2. In the words of David Brentell himself he’s won manager of the year and been promoted from this division. That hasn’t worked too well.
Every appointment is a risk. Shaun and Ben seem less of a risk than keeping him.
As I mentioned on another thread the best town team I’ve seen were managed by Dave Booth who was promoted from within and had no experience.
I would also hope the owners didn’t put all their eggs in one basket with Artell and built dossiers and interviewed other potential managers when PH left.

Quoted from 123614

Two of them against a team of part timers. They have both been part of the backroom staff for the whole of this time from when things started going wrong, they have to take some of the blame too. Putting inexperienced people in as managers when we are in this position is one hell of a risk. We need an experienced manager who knows League Two.

Graham Flynn at Newport was promoted from coach to caretaker manager at Newport, with them 11 points adrift at the bottom of league 2, and he kept them up, and eventually getting them to the play offs and a great cup run.

Adkins went from Physio to caretaker at Scunny, and guided them to promotions.

Just two examples of untried and inexperienced managers that came from inside the club. It can and does work, but I'm also sure there are many that didn't work.

Point is that you never know what will happen. We have already tried a new manager with experience of League 2 replacing PH this season and he has made us worse.

What does 'knowing League 2' mean anyway?

Quoted from Abdul19

What does 'knowing League 2' mean anyway?

Knowing me, knowing league 2, A-Haaaa

Quoted from Abdul19

What does 'knowing League 2' mean anyway?

I’d prefer someone who knows our players and knows the issues we have, where the problems lay etc.

Ben and Shaun arrested a run of 9 games with 4 point and got 5 points out of 3 league games straight away… We’d take that sort of return now, all day long.

Coaches in backroom staffs do as they’re told. They instantly changed our style and instantly got results. We’re getting battered every week at the minute. If Artell says “this is how we’re playing and how we’re setting up” then that’s what they have to do..

Quoted from Mikey_345

I’d prefer someone who knows our players and knows the issues we have, where the problems lay etc.

Ben and Shaun arrested a run of 9 games with 4 point and got 5 points out of 3 league games straight away… We’d take that sort of return now, all day long.

Coaches in backroom staffs do as they’re told. They instantly changed our style and instantly got results. We’re getting battered every week at the minute. If Artell says “this is how we’re playing and how we’re setting up” then that’s what they have to do..

I don’t mind who at this point and I’m not against Shaun and Ben, but isn’t the problem that we’re just shite other than Danny Rose? Shouldn’t take long to work out.

Give it to Shaun and Ben, it's almost spring so I'm Dave will be able to keep himself busy with a spot of gardening. Get a couple of free agents in to lift standards and get back to basics.

If we lose again next week, what happens? At least if we do lose next week, he can stop trying to gaslight us with this myth that our away form is good. But what happens? Maybe the thinking is if they sack him next week, he hasn't got far to travel back home. That is part of why they sacked Hurst at full time after Doncaster away.

Quoted from Abdul19

What does 'knowing League 2' mean anyway?

Good point. Artell won League 2 in 2019-20 which was 4 seasons ago. 6 teams exit League 2 every year. There have been 4 seasons completed since he last competed in League 2, which means 24 teams have left it, the same number of teams in it! As it happens quite a few teams have been up and down (like Crewe) or down and up (like us). But very few teams are comparable to the one he faced when he last managed at this level. Not to mention rule changes (e.g. 5 subs).

If Artell had any honour he would resign now. But as this is probably his last shot at an EFL management role I'm guessing he'll hang on to the bitter end if only for his compo. He says he's good at developing youth players so I'd tell him he's assisting Woods with the youth team until the end of this season or doing some scouting while SP and BD look after the first team. If that hurts his pride and causes him any embarrassment then tough as it just reflects what he's inflicted on us fans over the last few weeks. The constant laughter and jeering from the away end is soul-destroying. The guy has annoyed me from off and I can't watch my club under his management any longer. It's me or him and I think Jason has just told us today that it's me being negative. I suppose I'm the cheaper option as they have already banked my season ticket money. So thanks for the memories.