Alright ladies and gents,

Preston fan here - hope this is OK to post, but if not feel free to remove.

Been checking here during/after most games since Mikey joined, and it’s seemed unanimously negative where the lad’s been concerned - seen a few posts suggesting he’s not ready for men’s football, and he’s a bit lightweight. Was wondering if that opinion is based on odd key moments in games, or whether it’s been a constant whenever he’s played?

He’s been really strong in our academy for a good 18 months and has played 4 or 5 games for our senior side - mainly off the bench late on in games - but hasn’t been given a real chance as yet so I’m interested to see how he’s got on with you. I did notice he didn’t make the bench a few games in a row.

Anyway - all the best for the rest of the season, and here’s hoping next season is a successful one

Hasn’t been given much of a chance. Hasn’t taken it when he has.

He had a great start at swindon but has been ineffective ever since.his cameo at Northampton is already the stuff of legend.15 minutes when he didnt do anything successfully , air shots, shanks, completely missed headers, he was brilliantly awful. Completely ineffective again tonight

Very poor player - clearly has some technical ability but mostly spends his time anonymously drifting around. On the few occasions the ball comes to him he usually loses possession. Do not rate him at all.

Quoted from Poojah

Hasn’t been given much of a chance. Hasn’t taken it when he has.

Aye, I’d seen on flashscores he’d only come on for a 10/15 min block at the end of games, and your Twitter admin rarely mentioned him. Hopefully he’ll come back and get himself stuck right into training - we’re confident he’s got what it takes, and plenty of loan spells are real baptisms of fire for young lads so hopefully his spell with you had done him good. Was hoping he’d have shone mind!

Cheers for the replies 👌🏻

I’m not sold by his football ability but he’s gone down a storm at Barracuda’s ‘Saved By The Bell’ night.

He’s gone as Screech every Saturday night and won every week.

Dustin Diamond in the rough but another loan more likely than a perm.

Clearly has some technical ability....seems to have that "lazy" style of play which doesn't look good in a team of grafters and certainly  isn't physically ready.

All in all a bit of a flop loan hence why he has hardly had any game time.  When he comes on I really don't think anyone is thinking "this will give us that extra bit of zip"

Probably more suited to the space granted at Championship level than the physicality of League 2.

Quoted from Chrisblor

Very poor player - clearly has some technical ability but mostly spends his time anonymously drifting around. On the few occasions the ball comes to him he usually loses possession. Do not rate him at all.

He is just a kid though. Could turn out great given time, who knows….

Decent player with time and space but we don't often get that.
I'd agree he'd be better on loan in league 1.

Bit of a stroller

I would say he's been completely anonymous in games, doesn't really seem to do anything, they just pass him by. Entirely underwhelming.

Quoted from Heisenberg

He is just a kid though. Could turn out great given time, who knows….

Oh absolutely, but he's not our player and if he's not having an impact in league two games at present then worrying about his future development isn't our problem! Would much rather see our own young players given an opportunity in the last few games of the season.

If he was our 18 year old player I'd be excited to see how he progresses as he definitely has some technical ability, just hasn't quite got to grips with it when he's played. Looked promising in his first game but a couple of substitute appearances against Northampton and Sutton where nothing seemed to go right for him, although he was getting involved. Cack against Carlisle but then every player was. Did alright tonight I thought when he came on but the ball was mostly up our end as we defended a rare home lead

Not been given much game time but been dross the last couple of appearance including tonight.

He was OK tonight. Retained possession reasonably well when it came to him and didn't do much wrong. The previous occasions I've seen him play, he's not done anything right at all, so that's an improvement.

Much too early for him for men's football at the moment, but give him a year or two and he might turn out OK.

Get the sense that he’s a better player than he’s shown in his limited opportunities. When selected, hasnt done enough to secure his selection for the next game but wouldn’t be surprised to see him flourish at Champ level over the next 2/3 years. Thanks for lending him to us and all the best to PNE.

Don’t rate him at all and has shown nothing since he’s been here.

If you offered him for free at the end of the season I personally wouldn't want him. I've probably seen 1 good performance from him, admittedly his game time is limited but there is a reason for that.

Quoted from Yan89

Alright ladies and gents,

Preston fan here - hope this is OK to post, but if not feel free to remove.

Been checking here during/after most games since Mikey joined, and it’s seemed unanimously negative where the lad’s been concerned - seen a few posts suggesting he’s not ready for men’s football, and he’s a bit lightweight. Was wondering if that opinion is based on odd key moments in games, or whether it’s been a constant whenever he’s played?

He’s been really strong in our academy for a good 18 months and has played 4 or 5 games for our senior side - mainly off the bench late on in games - but hasn’t been given a real chance as yet so I’m interested to see how he’s got on with you. I did notice he didn’t make the bench a few games in a row.

Anyway - all the best for the rest of the season, and here’s hoping next season is a successful one

As you’ll see there’s a few experts on here who believe they can judge a player just starting out by a few cameos in an inconsistent L2 side still to find its own identity in terms of way of playing.

Hasn’t really made an impact but hasn’t been given much game time in reality, coming on as a sub doesn’t give any illustrations either.

What I would say is that he must have a decent attitude otherwise Hurst would have sent him back.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

As you’ll see there’s a few experts on here who believe they can judge a player just starting out by a few cameos in an inconsistent L2 side still to find its own identity in terms of way of playing.

Hasn’t really made an impact but hasn’t been given much game time in reality, coming on as a sub doesn’t give any illustrations either.

What I would say is that he must have a decent attitude otherwise Hurst would have sent him back.

To be fair, it wasn’t just O’Neill coming in for criticism during many of those match day threads I read, but no smoke without fire and I’m sure he’s played pretty poorly considering so many on here have said so last night and today.

His attitude is first rate by all accounts, and we’ve an honest hard working squad at North End who I’m sure will keep him on the straight and narrow when he returns. Weirdly, we don’t get a lot of time on the ball in the championship either - not unless we play it far too patiently and move the ball across the back 5 for a couple of minutes anyway..

Another young lad full of promise is Finlay Cross-Adair who’s out on loan at Bamber Bridge just now - a striker who’s a bit more physical than Mikey but still very raw.. maybe he could be better suited to League 2 football next season but we shall see.

On a side note, had a soft spot for Grimsby since I got sacked by North End on Football Manager a few years ago during my first season and managed to take you to the Prem with Ryan Ledson as captain. James McKeown, Sebastian Ring, Luke Hendrie, Mattie Pollock, Harry Clifton and Dembele made us a strong side to begin with.

As I’ve said, here’s hoping you have a strong end to the season and a good year ahead

Quoted from Yan89

To be fair, it wasn’t just O’Neill coming in for criticism during many of those match day threads I read, but no smoke without fire and I’m sure he’s played pretty poorly considering so many on here have said so last night and today.

His attitude is first rate by all accounts, and we’ve an honest hard working squad at North End who I’m sure will keep him on the straight and narrow when he returns. Weirdly, we don’t get a lot of time on the ball in the championship either - not unless we play it far too patiently and move the ball across the back 5 for a couple of minutes anyway..

Another young lad full of promise is Finlay Cross-Adair who’s out on loan at Bamber Bridge just now - a striker who’s a bit more physical than Mikey but still very raw.. maybe he could be better suited to League 2 football next season but we shall see.

On a side note, had a soft spot for Grimsby since I got sacked by North End on Football Manager a few years ago during my first season and managed to take you to the Prem with Ryan Ledson as captain. James McKeown, Sebastian Ring, Luke Hendrie, Mattie Pollock, Harry Clifton and Dembele made us a strong side to begin with.

As I’ve said, here’s hoping you have a strong end to the season and a good year ahead

Thanks mate

Yeah like most I feel he's disappointed since a fairly encouraging debut.

His positional sense seems almost non-existent but I'm not sure what his actual position is.  He's mainly come on in wide areas but he looks absolutely lost out there.  

Technically he's shown glimpses of what he can do and whilst fairly quick he's not rapid but he does look like he could do with a few Sunday dinners in him.  If he isn't going to technically cut it at the Championship level and will look to drop down, he definitely needs to work on his physical attributes.

O'Neill is part of a constant conveyer belt of young loanee strikers that arrive here from higher up the ladder and get limited time to impress.  I can't say that 90% of them have offered anything that I wouldn't have expected from our own 17/18/19 year olds.

To be fair on him, not many 18 year olds are ready for first team football. You get the odd exception here and there (Ryan Bennett notably for us), but most don't really come into their own until they are 20-odd.

To adapt in Hursty teams you have to show excessive work rate, another loanie Lloyd has been successful due mainly to that, O'neill has not impressed in that area

O'Neill also hasn't impressed in passing the ball, retaining possession, beating defenders, creating chances etc etc...

That's why he hasn't featured very much. Nothing wrong with expecting hard work from players so I'm not going to criticise Hurst for that approach. For all his abilities, JMD looks as though he's going to be playing 6th tier football next season...

I'm curious as to what his position is at Preston, because I don't think I've seen him in exactly the same role twice for Town this year (which obviously won't have helped him) he's just loosely described as a kind of attacking midfielder/forward.
He's got a good touch on him so I'd be tempted to try him in central midfield where better technical ability can have a big impact in our league, but he's not strong enough or busy enough off the ball to do it - compare him to Khouri for example, one of our lads starting to break into mens football, and the attitude and physicality are markedly different.

There's a player in there somewhere, I think he needs a year or two in the gym and to nail down a position and maybe in 2 years time he'll be ready - he must show something in training because El General does keep selecting him where other loanees are MIA

Thought he looked useful in patches last night going forward, one decent bit of acceleration while beating the fb down the right hand side, but with lots of time his cross hit the first man

With regard to attitude, impressed how keen he was to join in the goal celebrations, it obviously means a lot to him

Quoted from OddShapedBalls

I'm curious as to what his position is at Preston, because I don't think I've seen him in exactly the same role twice for Town this year (which obviously won't have helped him) he's just loosely described as a kind of attacking midfielder/forward.
He's got a good touch on him so I'd be tempted to try him in central midfield where better technical ability can have a big impact in our league, but he's not strong enough or busy enough off the ball to do it - compare him to Khouri for example, one of our lads starting to break into mens football, and the attitude and physicality are markedly different.

There's a player in there somewhere, I think he needs a year or two in the gym and to nail down a position and maybe in 2 years time he'll be ready - he must show something in training because El General does keep selecting him where other loanees are MIA

He’s played in CM, CAM and as second striker in our youth side, but he was brought on in senior games as a 10. His flashes of promise were in this position, sitting just off a lone striker who would do the knocking down and harrying of imposing centre halves. He hasn’t played much for us though so it’s a bit early to say ‘that’s his role’, and he’s been shifted down the pecking order further now due to the form of Daniel Johnson, Josh Onomah and Alan Browne - we might well lose both DJ and JO at the end of the season though so he might well come back with a view to actually playing some men’s footy

Quoted from lee65

Thought he looked useful in patches last night going forward, one decent bit of acceleration while beating the fb down the right hand side, but with lots of time his cross hit the first man

With regard to attitude, impressed how keen he was to join in the goal celebrations, it obviously means a lot to him

To be fair to O'Neill, I watched the Chelsea game last night and it seemed that there wasn't a Chelsea player on the field who could beat the first man with a cross.

Hasn't really had a chance, those chances he's had have proven he's got ability but is not ready for men's football, he still plays at an U21s game pace

You can’t expect £600 million of new talent (plus extortionate wages and endless contracts) at Chelsea to put in crosses that beat the first man.  

Pointless exercise  anyway.  Chelsea only have one striker/bad striker and they loaned him out.

Quoted from Maringer

To be fair on him, not many 18 year olds are ready for first team football. You get the odd exception here and there (Ryan Bennett notably for us), but most don't really come into their own until they are 20-odd.

I'm not sure that's right. Most EFL players that make their debuts in their teens and hold down a regular place seem to make a good living out the game. On the other hand, the majority that don't cut it in their teens rarely make the grade when they're older and drift out of the professional game. Odd exceptions, but seems that way to me over the years..

Felt sorry for him one game. (can't remember who against)  Ha da defender to beat a challenge came in and both went to ground, he got up and would have been on goal if Taylor hadn't nipped in and slot it home.

Quoted from Yan89

On a side note, had a soft spot for Grimsby since I got sacked by North End on Football Manager a few years ago during my first season and managed to take you to the Prem with Ryan Ledson as captain. James McKeown, Sebastian Ring, Luke Hendrie, Mattie Pollock, Harry Clifton and Dembele made us a strong side to begin with.

As I’ve said, here’s hoping you have a strong end to the season and a good year ahead

Must say full respect to you, getting a promotion with Seb Ring in your squad is an outstanding achievement 👏

Quoted from Bigdog

I'm not sure that's right. Most EFL players that make their debuts in their teens and hold down a regular place seem to make a good living out the game. On the other hand, the majority that don't cut it in their teens rarely make the grade when they're older and drift out of the professional game. Odd exceptions, but seems that way to me over the years..

Harry Clifton was closer to 20 than 19 when he made his League debut for us. Jack Lester scored his first League goal (for Donny) when he was a few days shy of his 20th birthday.

Both some of the better players over the past few decades and weren't really near holding down a first team place until they were around 20 years old.

If a youngster hasn't played much by the time they are 21, I'm wary, but if they aren't doing much at the age of 18 or 19, I'm never that concerned. Khouri now into his 20s and the performance last night shows he might have a bit to offer. He seemed very lightweight when he played the odd game over the last couple of seasons.

So many recent loanees from higher divisions have decent technical ability, but look far too ponderous and it’s clear they are used to a slower academy style of football. I’m not at all convinced by the U23’s and academy model as higher division clubs sweep up players when in reality they would develop far better getting men’s football at a much lower level, then working their way back up the divisions.

That said, why would a young player join a lowly club on peanuts, when they can join a more prestigious club with better facilities and pay. In the long run, I’d argue they been short sighted, but you can’t blame them at all. Most of us would do the same.

Don't wanna sound negative but seen nothing in him to suggest hes ready for league football at all.

Definitely someone we won't be interested in going forward hopefully,  sorry if this is harsh but the lad has done nothing since being here.

Players like O’Neal are the reason we need a proper reserve league structure.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Players like O’Neal are the reason we need a proper reserve league structure.

Couldn't agree more.

It needs to go hand in hand with a stop to the hoovering up and stockpiling of talent by the bigger clubs too, which is clearly just trickling down the leagues.

Premier League 2, Academy football, whatever you want to call it simply isn't enough for players to develop suitably in.  You only need to look at the EFL Cup to see that these supposed elite youngsters get smashed about in a way they're just not used to.  3 or 4 games a  season against seasoned pros isn't going to be enough to aid the much needed wake up calls needed.  

We're no longer in a reserve league because the club said there wasn't enough teams in it and it became a glorified youth team fixture anyway.  I do understand the clubs reluctance to play players in these reserve fixtures because they don't want to to pick up injuries but I suspect it's also because there's little value in experienced fringe players running the risk of a knock by playing against kids.  If the fixtures weren't dominated by Academy kids, would managers be more prepared to run the risk of knocks to keep players ticking over?

The more we loan lads like O'Neill the more I think I favour more of a limit on the loan lads you can have in a season.  It's too easy to loan someone from the Academy of Preston, Derby, Stoke, Birmingham to fill a place on the bench.  They don't get much from it, we don't get anything and it's pretty much a waste of time.  I'd rather have Essel or Braithwaite getting the odd appearance from the bench than O'Neill or Dickson-Peters.  I've nothing against the loan market and it can and has worked for us with the likes of Smith, Lloyd et al.  But it's the loaning of lads just to fill a slot on the bench I don't like and I think that comes because the option is there to do so, almost a bit of a lazy option.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Couldn't agree more.

It needs to go hand in hand with a stop to the hoovering up and stockpiling of talent by the bigger clubs too, which is clearly just trickling down the leagues.

Premier League 2, Academy football, whatever you want to call it simply isn't enough for players to develop suitably in.  You only need to look at the EFL Cup to see that these supposed elite youngsters get smashed about in a way they're just not used to.  3 or 4 games a  season against seasoned pros isn't going to be enough to aid the much needed wake up calls needed.  

We're no longer in a reserve league because the club said there wasn't enough teams in it and it became a glorified youth team fixture anyway.  I do understand the clubs reluctance to play players in these reserve fixtures because they don't to pick up injuries but I suspect it's also because there's little value in experienced fringe players running the risk of a knock by playing against kids.  If the fixtures weren't dominated by Academy kids, would managers be more prepared to run the risk of knocks to keep players ticking over?

The more we loan lads like O'Neill the more I think I favour more of a limit on the loan lads you can have in a season.  It's too easy to loan someone from the Academy of Preston, Derby, Stoke, Birmingham to fill a place on the bench.  They don't get much from it, we don't get anything and it's pretty much a waste of time.  I'd rather have Essel or Braithwaite getting the odd appearance from the bench than O'Neill or Dickson-Peters.  I've nothing against the loan market and it can and has worked for us with the likes of Smith, Lloyd et al.  But it's the loaning of lads just to fill a slot on the bench I don't like and I think that comes because the option is there to do so, almost a bit of a lazy option.

RE the youngsters I agree, if we're filling up slots on the bench lets use our own youth players - that will also make our academy look more attractive as prospective young players will see that we give in-house players a chance.

Quoted from OddShapedBalls

RE the youngsters I agree, if we're filling up slots on the bench lets use our own youth players - that will also make our academy look more attractive as prospective young players will see that we give in-house players a chance.

Although I definitely see where your coming from I do see why clubs take a chance on these young loans, like you say they do it to bring bodies in, it doesn't cost much, but if every so often they hit on a gem (like we did with Andy smith) it's a massive result.

Quoted from Maringer

He was OK tonight. Retained possession reasonably well when it came to him and didn't do much wrong. The previous occasions I've seen him play, he's not done anything right at all, so that's an improvement.

Much too early for him for men's football at the moment, but give him a year or two and he might turn out OK.

That's how I see it too

I recall us having Liam Trotter on loan in 2008-9 season and thinking he was a bit lightweight ( Trotter by name, trotter by nature ) but he went on to have quite a good career and when I next saw him ( playing for Bolton against Town and scoring the only goal of the game ) you can appreciate that from late teens to mid-twenties raw talent is honed along with physicality to deliver a totally different & experienced player

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

That's how I see it too

I recall us having Liam Trotter on loan in 2008-9 season and thinking he was a bit lightweight ( Trotter by name, trotter by nature ) but he went on to have quite a good career and when I next saw him ( playing for Bolton against Town and scoring the only goal of the game ) you can appreciate that from late teens to mid-twenties raw talent is honed along with physicality to deliver a totally different & experienced player

Agree with this.

Seem to remember Josh Magennis and Malik Wilks both being with us on loan and both looked as plain as O'Neill but both have gone on to have fairly decent careers.

Quoted from forza ivano

He had a great start at swindon but has been ineffective ever since.his cameo at Northampton is already the stuff of legend.15 minutes when he didnt do anything successfully , air shots, shanks, completely missed headers, he was brilliantly awful. Completely ineffective again tonight

You could make a list from our squad that have been completely ineffective.

I don't know why Hurst persists in getting these young forwards from higher up the League's as he hardly ever plays them

Quoted from Gainsbro_Mariner

Agree with this.

Seem to remember Josh Magennis and Malik Wilks both being with us on loan and both looked as plain as O'Neill but both have gone on to have fairly decent careers.

Another one was the young forward who was up front invthe 16/17 season who, apart from the opening game, looked mediocre for us. Then went on to be  atop scorer invthe division with Accrington (?) Next season i think and was playing at Ipswich wasn't he by the time Hurst rocked up there.

For every Malik Wilks there's a Luke Cornwall

Kayden Jackson didn't pull up any trees while he was here but his 2nd season down here saw the goals start to flow.

Quoted from nightrider

For every Malik Wilks there's a Luke Cornwall

See, I liked Luke Cornwall. He was only 21 when he signed for us on loan from Fulham, and scored 4 goals in 10 including a big winner away at West Brom. Thought at the time he was a good prospect. Never scored a goal in the football league again and quickly disappeared into non-league obscurity.

Quoted from Wedidntdidwe

Kayden Jackson didn't pull up any trees while he was here but his 2nd season down here saw the goals start to flow.

Kayden Jackson that was him.

Quoted from toontown

Another one was the young forward who was up front invthe 16/17 season who, apart from the opening game, looked mediocre for us. Then went on to be  atop scorer invthe division with Accrington (?) Next season i think and was playing at Ipswich wasn't he by the time Hurst rocked up there.

I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure it was Hurst who signed Jackson for Ipswich.

Quoted from Poojah

See, I liked Luke Cornwall. He was only 21 when he signed for us on loan from Fulham, and scored 4 goals in 10 including a big winner away at West Brom. Thought at the time he was a good prospect. Never scored a goal in the football league again and quickly disappeared into non-league obscurity.

Totally agree, scored a couple of cracking goals for us and looked decent, and that was in the 2nd tier I believe  :)