45 minutes of similar home misery and a somewhat better 2nd half.

God knows where they get these referees from, that one was certainly a contender for worst of the season.

MoM Lloyd again who was often the victim of Mansfield’s GBH attempt simply for having the gumption to follow the penalty in.

Couldn't make it today, but sounds like it was the same old same old, though Mansfield have a very good away record, so a point isn't too bad I suppose.

Think we've moved up a place too and have the chance of our highest finish for some years.

Trying to see the positives, but sounds like it wasn't much in the excitement stakes again.

I am sure we had that ref about 15 years (from Hogwarts )
Casting his spell on us

First half just like so many games at Blundell Park this season. Fortunately we improved in the second. However, this squad needs a serious upgrade in the summer. Of more importance is an upgrade in our style of play. Far too often we are dire to watch.

Strange game and as the games come and go it's becoming more clear who's not good enough and who we need to try sign (LLOYD!!)

Only managed to watch the second half, from what I saw was we playing a 442/ 4222? We looked more fluid than I've seen of late at home games. Lloyd the only forward player I felt did much, Kahn in patches but I still think he's too lightweight and not what we need if we are to push on next season. But he was ahead of the others. I say it way too much but Taylor needs to be left out. Thank him for last season and wish him luck elsewhere.

I didn’t see much difference in class from Mansfield who are in contention for play offs and us

First half - Smith gave the ball away, efete gave the ball away, ref made a bizarre decision, town lost the ball under pressure, ref made a bizarre decision, Green gave the ball away, repeat several times and Mansfield scored
Half time - Khan had a shot of something and was excellent until the penno
Second half - much better, more pace, bit more movement and several shots. Ref made a bizarre decision
Nice to see a visiting team hurrying cos they needed the points but the cheating toe rag with the none head injury should be shot, and the ref made a bizarre decision

Couldn't make it today, but my Dad tells me that the referee was one of the most biased against us that he's ever seen.

The selection by Hurst was shite - the players were shite in the first half -  the referee was shite shite shite both halves.

One positive thing to come out of the game today, with the point we gained, we’re now mathematically safe.

Quoted from mariner tommy

One positive thing to come out of the game today, with the point we gained, we’re now mathematically safe.

And we can still get promoted…

So Khan plays like a dog for 50 mins obviously low in confidence then takes an abysmal penalty only to turn into Messi for the bext 20 minutes. I will never understand football at this level

Ref watch:

Early on wasted a minute of our time to check if a ball for a corner was in the right place.  Yes, it was.  

I thought we were in for a very fussy ref.  How could I be more wrong?

Blatant arm wrestling and pulling of our player could have been a yellow. Not even a foul.  And this right under his nose.

Refs stop play sometimes for non- head injuries.  This joker waves play on for a clear head injury.  Mansfield were attacking.

The ref knew the law because when the Mansfield got up and went down again a minute later, he stopped the game.

First half we were poor and did not know how to attack. No urgency.

Smith gave the ball away 3 times in the first 11 minutes.  All unforced errors.

Second half was a lot better.  For a tired team there was more energy, purpose and intensity. Efete continues to frustrate.  He was in a good attacking position with players in the middle.  His wasted cross/shot went straight to their keeper

Can't understand the constant passing to Smith from Crocombe. The delay from Smith in finally making the pass is ridiculous and is still somehow hurried and panicky despite taking his time.
I'd have said Maher was the better, calmer option for this but we continued with it.
The ref was awful but also waved away a clear push from Lloyd on their defender which almost and should have led to a goal. He was mere yards away, as he was for all the fouls he let go.
Another weirdo ref and another strange tale of 2 halves, a team that would struggle to stay up in the 1st, a team that could trouble the playoffs in the 2nd.

urine poor first half, picked up a bit second half. Hugh Grant the floppy haired ref was comfortably one of the top (bottom?) 3 worst this season.

Mansfield were bang average - improve the home form while maintaining the away and anything is possible in this league.

I don’t criticise referees. This is a game played by humans and mistakes are made. Usually the mistakes level themselves up by the end of the season. Every team is hard done by. No one complains about the referee when their team put their chances away. My lad also plays U13s, the referees are often 16/17 year olds and I was stood with the refs dad at one game who told me about all the abuse his son gets throughout the season. So I don’t criticise referees, and I tell my son to do the same. No referees, no game. Utmost respect for them turning out every weekend. Having said all that, today’s was a useless fücking twàt.

Quoted from LH

urine poor first half, picked up a bit second half. Hugh Grant the floppy haired ref was comfortably one of the top (bottom?) 3 worst this season.

Mansfield were bang average - improve the home form while maintaining the away and anything is possible in this league.

Hurst said post-match that he only told the players yesterday about the new "system" yet seemed baffled why the players could not carry it out. Tired players, another set of changes in personnel and a new system to grapple with? I think he is asking too much of lower-league players to be honest. I do hope we are going to have an identifiable way of playing next season otherwise so many games will be bitty with no real flow from our point of view. I think he changes things so often to counteract the opposition but it just stops us from getting on the front foot and getting a rhythm going.

Keep saying the same thing but it’s hard to win games without a midfield and whilst Green improved second half the fact that he and Morris lack pace and mobility is a major contribution to how slow we are in moving the ball forward.

20 home matches and still no clear and obvious pattern of play and obviously from Hurst’s instructions were to play out from the back despite the fact that we are completely out of our depth in doing so and just delay the inevitable long ball that is normally hit into touch or straight to an opponent.

Despite all that second half was pretty enjoyable with both sides trying to win the game and ultimately a draw was probably about the right result.

I can sort of understand why Hurst wants to try a different system/style since the season is over, so I won't criticise that. But I'd have been expecting them to be working on it all week, not just yesterday.

That first half was truly abysmal.

I've never seen us give the ball away so often and so cheaply in our own third (let alone own half). Mansfield pressed really high and we just had no answer.

There has been some focus on Efete this season but in that first half our entire defence was awful. Smith gave the ball away more than anyone, Maher couldn't handle their striker and Gallagher was at fault for the goal. Crocombe could have also done better. Yet another sloppy goal to concede all round.

I don't think we had a shot in the first half, of any note?

According to the BBC, we had 15 shots in the game, so I think these must have all come in the second half! Not sure what was said, but we played so much better. Think Mansfield were as shocked as we were by the transformation!

Hardly world-beaters but we were far more urgent, we were finding space, we seemed to have two up top to chase things down so whenever we were forced into a clearance we had strikers hassling their defenders, and they were backed up by a midfield that was pushing higher.

Stonewall pen. Another shite one taken, luckily Lloyd was alive to the rebound.

Just seen the two min highlights on Sky Sports. They didn't show the jinking Khan run that nearly ended in glory. Lloyd skewed one effort so wide it stayed in, then when it was crossed back in he somehow missed at the far post when it looked easier to score.

Mansfield looked like they came for a win but ended up playing for a draw after that burst of energy from us. Thought the subs we made were useful.

Ref had a shocker. Didn't stop the game when a Mansfield player had a head injury, waited to see if they'd score, Crocombe parried out, we started breaking then suddenly he needed to stop the game.

Got in the way of the ball twice. First time was comical. Mansfield guy spun and trod on the ball, Lloyd battled to win it off him and the ref was literally stood over them both!

Then he insisted the ball was Mansfield and recommended Town didn't compete for it.

There was also the most blatant foul on Khan in the first half when he got grabbed right around the chest and spun while trying to break free with the ball. Ref was stood literally yards away and shook his head.

I've seen enough bad refs down the years to know he wasn't the worst, but there's a huge cluster of them down there in the bottom 10%.

Pretty meaningless in reality but here goes….

FFS can we stop playing out? We can’t pass the ball effectively so why are we trying to be something we’re not equipped to be?

The ref, I can live with them getting stuff wrong within reason but what is unforgivable is that for the 2nd game in a row the fitness level of the referee was unacceptable for a game between 2 full time professional sides, who looked like he’d been promoted from NLN to be honest.

PH says he wants to look at stuff, what do I think he got out of today?

Hurst has a decision to make on Max, who did better today but could he have done better on their goal?

Taylor, Gallagher and Morris won’t be here next season.

Hurst rates Khouri for sure, to bring him on to replace Green in a tight game was good to see.

Glennon is improving as he gets more experience, his concentration is much better and I’d expect him to be our first pick next season.

Re the point above, when Glennon came on Khan looked better, if we can keep him fit and get him running at people he’ll cause chaos and that little trick and run in the 2nd half was great.

We still can’t keep the ball and in the final 3rd we quite often don’t have a clue.

We need to put in a serious bid for George Lloyd

There’s probably more but like pretty much all of the above none of it will be new.

Anyway, sh1te first half, better 2nd half, fair result.

Final thing, if  Cloughie was still on this mortal coil he’d be kicking Nigel’s @rse for the behaviour of the Mansfield players - classless!

Swap goalkeepers any day.

The standard of officiating in England is a huge concern.

I’d like to think I’m relatively level-headed surrounding match officials as an ex-level 4 referee myself.

However, the standard is diabolical on an almost weekly basis.

Too many referees being pushed through the system too quickly and ending up well out of their depth.

Quoted from bradzmilne

The standard of officiating in England is a huge concern.

I’d like to think I’m relatively level-headed surrounding match officials as an ex-level 4 referee myself.

However, the standard is diabolical on an almost weekly basis.

Too many referees being pushed through the system too quickly and ending up well out of their depth.

Until the FA deal with the abuse and sh1t young refs have to deal with then it’s not going to get better. There’s not enough talent & quality coming through as they start but give up because of all the abuse, who could blame them? This means muppets with poor levels of fitness & understanding like the one we had today and at Donny get league games they’re not capable to deal with.

VAR doesn’t help, a load of well qualified and experienced refs playing with videos in a caravan when they could be helping out on the pitch somewhere in the pyramid.

The best ref I’ve seen all season was the lad who was an ex pro, but ex pros doing it will remain rare as they either don’t need the money or know what other pros say about refs behind closed doors.

Quoted from bradzmilne

The standard of officiating in England is a huge concern.

I’d like to think I’m relatively level-headed surrounding match officials as an ex-level 4 referee myself.

However, the standard is diabolical on an almost weekly basis.

Too many referees being pushed through the system too quickly and ending up well out of their depth.

Tend to agree and I’m ex L4 still reffing at L5 as I’d not get near the fitness test these days. Thing is, I know that and I ref at a lower level than previous because I think it would be poor to do anything else.
The one thing I’ve always tried to offer the teams I ref is consistency in my decisions, they may not agree with them all but they know what to expect and why. This dude today didn’t even get that basic right, he was all over the place. Also noted how he got in the middle of play too often. That is a real sign of either a lack of fitness or sense. It does seem that people are getting pushed through who are simply not up to it and that detracts from some of the decent refs out there who get tarred with the same brush.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Until the FA deal with the abuse and sh1t young refs have to deal with then it’s not going to get better. There’s not enough talent & quality coming through as they start but give up because of all the abuse, who could blame them? This means muppets with poor levels of fitness & understanding like the one we had today and at Donny get league games they’re not capable to deal with.

VAR doesn’t help, a load of well qualified and experienced refs playing with videos in a caravan when they could be helping out on the pitch somewhere in the pyramid.

The best ref I’ve seen all season was the lad who was an ex pro, but ex pros doing it will remain rare as they either don’t need the money or know what other pros say about refs behind closed doors.

The FA have faced the same problems with officiating for years and years. Dwindling numbers of officials, which ultimately results in a diluted standard of quality.

It begs the question, what have they done about it? In my opinion… Bùgger all.

Any abuse that any official faces is absolutely not acceptable. However, equally what are the FA doing to entice people into officiating? What are the FA doing to prevent the abuse? GoPro-like cameras for 0.1% of grassroots referees simply isn’t enough.

No referee goes out to purposefully do a “bad job” & what we’re seeing is referees who have not been appropriately supported officiating games that they’re not ready for.

Quoted from bradzmilne

The standard of officiating in England is a huge concern.

I’d like to think I’m relatively level-headed surrounding match officials as an ex-level 4 referee myself.

However, the standard is diabolical on an almost weekly basis.

Too many referees being pushed through the system too quickly and ending up well out of their depth.

I try not to get stuck into officials too often; refereeing can be a subjective thing and it’s easy to become clouded by your own bias, but the double act of the referee and lino by the Findus Stand produced some of the bizarrest decisions I have seen at Blundell Park in quite some time. And it’s a pretty high bar.

For me though, it was the lino that just pipped it in terms of sheer incompetence. Awarding a throw to Mansfield in the first-half when none of the ball had even reached the touchline, never mind all of the fúcking thing having gone over it. Failing to spot a blatant offside because he had completely switched off and found himself planted to the spot, a good 10 yards behind play. Generally looking like he didn’t understand the rules he was meant to be applying.

Woeful. Absolutely woeful.

First half was pretty woeful. I am a huge fan of Smith but some of those passes were way off the target. As mentioned previously I cannot believe we continued to try the same thing.
I think we were lucky to only be one down at half time, It wasn't surprising though looking at the team sheet at 2pm. It is fustrating when most of our best players are sat on the bench with a full house at home.

Seen a few saying Mansfield weren't up to much but I thought they were decent. The way the ball stuck up front for them was a huge contrast to us 99% of the time. There were passes that were far better than anything we manage barring the odd one from Hunt when he plays.

Thought Khan was absolutely brilliant. The way he takes the ball on the half turn is a real threat and I think in a positive winning side he has real potential. Glennon coming on made him even better.

Finally a word for the ref, unreal , and not in a good way. For the first few minutes I thought he was going to be good. That was a yellow for Efete at the start though remembering back I think he only gave it when the Mansfield player stayed down and needed treatment.
The throw in given near the upper was beyond ridiculous.

Probably deserved a point in the end and thankfully did improve from that poor start.

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

Tend to agree and I’m ex L4 still reffing at L5 as I’d not get near the fitness test these days. Thing is, I know that and I ref at a lower level than previous because I think it would be poor to do anything else.
The one thing I’ve always tried to offer the teams I ref is consistency in my decisions, they may not agree with them all but they know what to expect and why. This dude today didn’t even get that basic right, he was all over the place. Also noted how he got in the middle of play too often. That is a real sign of either a lack of fitness or sense. It does seem that people are getting pushed through who are simply not up to it and that detracts from some of the decent refs out there who get tarred with the same brush.

There was a bit of consistency mate.
Lloyd and Khan got nothing when clearly held/ fouled but there was the most obvious foul I have ever seen on the Mansfield striker but he did nothing.
Well apart from carry on smiling....

Quoted from bradzmilne

The FA have faced the same problems with officiating for years and years. Dwindling numbers of officials, which ultimately results in a diluted standard of quality.

It begs the question, what have they done about it? In my opinion… Bùgger all.

Any abuse that any official faces is absolutely not acceptable. However, equally what are the FA doing to entice people into officiating? What are the FA doing to prevent the abuse? GoPro-like cameras for 0.1% of grassroots referees simply isn’t enough.

No referee goes out to purposefully do a “bad job” & what we’re seeing is referees who have not been appropriately supported officiating games that they’re not ready for.

Agree completely.

I got sent off twice and booked twice in my playing days.

All for the same thing , telling the ref what I thought of him.

Not a clever thing to do. ::)

Quoted from RichMariner

I've seen enough bad refs down the years to know he wasn't the worst, but there's a huge cluster of them down there in the bottom 10%.

Well not a huge cluster surely, just 10% of them

I think it's obvious that there is a certain amount of experimentation going on with systems and player positions within the team, with a view to next season and player retention.

It doesn't make for very cohesive games, especially at home, but I'm hoping that it will stand us in good stead for what's needed, and that next season will be a lot better for it.

If the frustration of our home form is addressed in the summer window with better recruitment for the weaker parts of the team, then it may all be worth it eventually.

I very much hope so.

Where's Waterfall if he's not injured?  Who was Captain?

Refereeing is an interesting subject.

If you're a footballer and you're brilliant you can go from non league to Premier league very quickly (virtually over night if you're good enough) whereas as a referee you have to hit certain targets, referee a certain amount of games etc. For me, if you're good enough you should be allowed to progress and move up quicker.
I know a referee who's now worked his way up to national league south level, genuinely the best referee I've seen. Yet its taken him years to get to where he is so far and still had a long way to go before he's moved into the football league. Why? He's better than most I've seen officiating.

Quoted from lukeo

Refereeing is an interesting subject.

If you're a footballer and you're brilliant you can go from non league to Premier league very quickly (virtually over night if you're good enough) whereas as a referee you have to hit certain targets, referee a certain amount of games etc. For me, if you're good enough you should be allowed to progress and move up quicker.
I know a referee who's now worked his way up to national league south level, genuinely the best referee I've seen. Yet its taken him years to get to where he is so far and still had a long way to go before he's moved into the football league. Why? He's better than most I've seen officiating.

Having spent years refereeing I can also tell you that plenty of referees have been pushed and then when they hit a level, as with players, they aren’t good enough.

I could go on about the issues with refereeing and why there are shortages etc but to be honest, nothing will change. Personally, I didn’t think he was too bad, made some confusing calls and I fail to see how the keeper wasn’t sent off…literally the same thing at Lincoln saw their keeper walk. I certainly don’t blame him for stopping the game and following the directive when their player cheated holding his head. That’s on the player.

I thought the first half passed us by but had we not switched off, the first half had 0-0 written all over it. Second half broke into a game of football at least and I felt Town probably edged it. We had our chances to win it 3/4-1 I thought.

Mansfield were poor, for a side that has once again spent a fair whack, lost last years playoff, albeit in dreadful fashion and clearly have promotion aspirations this year, nothing about them would point to promotion. The fact they sat back and protected a draw at times was awful.

Absolutely FED UP of Team tactics to tap the ball to a defender  on a goal kick and then lose the ball in our own third when the opposition swarm on it.
Cost us many goals this season!
It’s not rocket science! Kick the ball up the pitch!

Quoted from easypeersy

Absolutely FED UP of Team tactics to tap the ball to a defender  on a goal kick and then lose the ball in our own third when the opposition swarm on it.
Cost us many goals this season!
It’s not rocket science! Kick the ball up the pitch!

Has it?

Quoted from easypeersy

Absolutely FED UP of Team tactics to tap the ball to a defender  on a goal kick and then lose the ball in our own third when the opposition swarm on it.
Cost us many goals this season!
It’s not rocket science! Kick the ball up the pitch!

But it hasn’t, and didn’t yesterday, in fact, yesterday our playing out from the back contributed to one of our attacks in the first half…

It doesn’t need a spreadsheet to know that just whacking it 60 yards up the field simply plays into the hands of the defending team…

If town ever make their way back up the leagues these folk who lament playing out from the back or teams sitting back and waiting for the press are gonna be flipping miserable every week…

Quoted from lukeo

Refereeing is an interesting subject.

If you're a footballer and you're brilliant you can go from non league to Premier league very quickly (virtually over night if you're good enough) whereas as a referee you have to hit certain targets, referee a certain amount of games etc. For me, if you're good enough you should be allowed to progress and move up quicker.
I know a referee who's now worked his way up to national league south level, genuinely the best referee I've seen. Yet its taken him years to get to where he is so far and still had a long way to go before he's moved into the football league. Why? He's better than most I've seen officiating.

My brief experience of refereeing showed me it’s ‘promote your mates’ culture where the ones most willing to dive in and kiss some bottom will get relatively far.

This combined complete lack of accountability for excrement decisions and the general attitude from most refs that they’re never wrong has led to some of the worst Refs I’ve ever seen reffing town games. It gets laughed off as ‘typical football fans’ but it’s getting to the point where they’re actually ruining a massive amount of games through pure incompetence.

Quoted from pontoonlew

My brief experience of refereeing showed me it’s ‘promote your mates’ culture where the ones most willing to dive in and kiss some bottom will get relatively far.

This combined complete lack of accountability for excrement decisions and the general attitude from most refs that they’re never wrong has led to some of the worst Refs I’ve ever seen reffing town games. It gets laughed off as ‘typical football fans’ but it’s getting to the point where they’re actually ruining a massive amount of games through pure incompetence.

I reached a relatively decent level and had I continued I could’ve probably gone further but for the politics and nonsense.

I was never the fittest in fitness tests etc but never had an issue acruslly refereeing games, quite the opposite. A couple of lads from other areas of the county were pushed because they could score ridiculously high on bleep tests or smash the fitness test…flipping dreadful referees though. Knew very little about football in truth and it showed.

We’d have centr of excellence meetings that spent more time telling us how to stay fit than actually watching play, understanding phases and looking at decision making…surprise surprise, the people making decisions to do that were usually old men…

As with players, an ex referee does not always make the best person to coach…

Then factor in politics, the expectations placed upon referees once they enter the semi pro arena for little money and understanding and it’s just a recipe for disaster…

VAR has done nothing but emasculate referees…however, as I said, my only gripe with the referee yesterday was the lack of red card for their keeper…

Very frustrating first half. Mansfield set up by marking Maher from our goal kicks meaning we had to play to Smith, who clearly isn’t comfortable with the ball at his feet (and a reason he’ll struggle at Hull). This made our build up play clunky and wasteful and struggled to get the ball anywhere near the final third. This, combined with poor delivery from Efete, Gallagher (not sure we’ll see him again), and Kahn when we did get there meant that Taylor and Lloyd were nullified. Our midfield two were very safe and conservative with neither able to ‘break the lines’. All this contributed to almost zero attacking output. The less said about the incompetence of the man in the middle the better.

Second half changed. A clear bollockin from the manager and a change, with Glennon linking up excellently with Kahn and providing overlapping and underlapping runs, giving us some threat down the left. We started being a little more direct, without hoofing it, and it seemed to work.

Clearly improvement is needed in the squad, and not only in the obvious centre forward area. We desperately need some quality from wide areas. Efete’s delivery is awful, Harry isn’t a conventional winger so often finds himself cutting inside and by the time Kahn has done a trick and slowed the play right down, all the attackers have made their runs and are stood still and all the defenders have marked them. We could sign Haaland and I think he’d struggle because of the lack of quality service. We also need a central midfielder who can break forward occasionally and provide a goal threat (Harry?).

All in all, I don’t think we’re a million miles away, 4 or 5 ‘quality’ signings, the shackles taken off every once in a while from the off at home and we have a side with potential.

Quoted from pontoonlew

My brief experience of refereeing showed me it’s ‘promote your mates’ culture where the ones most willing to dive in and kiss some bottom will get relatively far.

This combined complete lack of accountability for excrement decisions and the general attitude from most refs that they’re never wrong has led to some of the worst Refs I’ve ever seen reffing town games. It gets laughed off as ‘typical football fans’ but it’s getting to the point where they’re actually ruining a massive amount of games through pure incompetence.

I guess it's down to the mentor or county you're in. If I was interested in progressing I think I'd have a good chance down here as the chap who supports the refs in Somerset is brilliant and very supportive. But, I'm just doing it for leisure and only ref u18s and below for now.

[quote=3351].

Clearly improvement is needed in the squad, and not only in the obvious centre forward area. We desperately need some quality from wide areas. Efete’s delivery is awful, Harry isn’t a conventional winger so often finds himself cutting inside and by the time Kahn has done a trick and slowed the play right down, all the attackers have made their runs and are stood still and all the defenders have marked them. We could sign Haaland and I think he’d struggle because of the lack of quality service. We also need a central midfielder who can break forward occasionally and provide a goal threat (Harry?).
.[/quote

I still can’t decide if it’s poor delivery or just players not knowing what to do in the 18 yard box, I suspect a mixture of both coupled with zero composure when in possession. Our general movement throughout the pitch is pretty average.

Then again I’m not sure I’ve seen many true footballing sides in this league, a lot of the goals we’ve conceded have been due to our own stupidity rather than the brilliance of our opposition.

I like Efete. But just 1 scenario is the great run he did then the cross that the keeper caught. If he'd had his head down and whipped it in without looking , to me it's a good cross in a good area. But he looked up twice if not three times and could have picked someone out.
I like Efete. I think he's a steady player at this level and the above isn't a criticism its an observation. I'd be more than happy if it was him and Emmanuel fighting for the right back position next season.

Agree what has been said previously Smith couldn't get rid of the ball quick enough,looked very nervous.The new style of play has signaled Hurst does not want to play with wingers,hence Werne J.MD. and Kieran  being got rid of .We haven't got the mid field to play out from the back.

Quoted from easypeersy

Absolutely FED UP of Team tactics to tap the ball to a defender  on a goal kick and then lose the ball in our own third when the opposition swarm on it.
Cost us many goals this season!
It’s not rocket science! Kick the ball up the pitch!

And then it's called hoof ball, which has also been criticised on here many times.

Quoted from lukeo

I like Efete. But just 1 scenario is the great run he did then the cross that the keeper caught. If he'd had his head down and whipped it in without looking , to me it's a good cross in a good area. But he looked up twice if not three times and could have picked someone out.
I like Efete. I think he's a steady player at this level and the above isn't a criticism its an observation. I'd be more than happy if it was him and Emmanuel fighting for the right back position next season.

Or an alternative observation is that in the first half Michee wins the ball, beats a man, looks up crosses a really good ball in, Lloyd has time to bring it down but gets under it and heads it over.

Michee is no worse than several Town players when it comes to composure in attacking areas whether that’s poor ball control, passing, failing to see players in better space and pot shots.

Quoted from DB

And then it's called hoof ball, which has also been criticised on here many times.

Goal kicks have been part of the game since proper rules were applied haven’t they?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Hurst said post-match that he only told the players yesterday about the new "system" yet seemed baffled why the players could not carry it out. Tired players, another set of changes in personnel and a new system to grapple with? I think he is asking too much of lower-league players to be honest. I do hope we are going to have an identifiable way of playing next season otherwise so many games will be bitty with no real flow from our point of view. I think he changes things so often to counteract the opposition but it just stops us from getting on the front foot and getting a rhythm going.

I agree that PH allowed too short a notice for the players to absorb a new system. Indeed he may even be expecting too much of lower league players. However that doesn't explain some shocking passing, I think Smith made three in the first 10 mins that immediately put us under pressure. It also doesn't explain poor decision making, poor marking and slow closing down of opponents. These are all aspects of the game that should be second nature to players, even at this level. These are players that will have been coached in these things since their very early teens or even younger.

Quoted from rancido

I agree that PH allowed too short a notice for the players to absorb a new system. Indeed he may even be expecting too much of lower league players. However that doesn't explain some shocking passing, I think Smith made three in the first 10 mins that immediately put us under pressure. It also doesn't explain poor decision making, poor marking and slow closing down of opponents. These are all aspects of the game that should be second nature to players, even at this level. These are players that will have been coached in these things since their very early teens or even younger.

Yes I agree and a lot of general play has turned to mush. I hope next season there is more emphasis of skill over endurance both individually and as a team.

I wonder how much actual coaching is going on? Hurst often tells us he has told players what he wants, but although professional players they still need coaching in how the manager wants to play. That brings us to the question of how does the manager want to play?

I hope Hurst has got it sorted in his head so we make the correct calls in the summer.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Yes I agree and a lot of general play has turned to mush. I hope next season there is more emphasis of skill over endurance both individually and as a team.

I wonder how much actual coaching is going on? Hurst often tells us he has told players what he wants, but although professional players they still need coaching in how the manager wants to play. That brings us to the question of how does the manager want to play?

I hope Hurst has got it sorted in his head so we make the correct calls in the summer.

Like most managers these days he sets up to play the opposing team, worth noting there is a difference between coaching and setting out your game plan.

Quoted from lukeo

I guess it's down to the mentor or county you're in. If I was interested in progressing I think I'd have a good chance down here as the chap who supports the refs in Somerset is brilliant and very supportive. But, I'm just doing it for leisure and only ref u18s and below for now.

How does it actually work to go through as a ref is it qualification based ?

Or is it just a case of gaining experience and going through the levels ?

Never something i have really thought about before , you must have to be thick skinned though to do that with the amount you are going to 'take some'.

As others have said- terrible first half, good second half. For a promotion chasing team, I didn't think much of Mansfield. If that is the standard we need to reach to be in with a chance of playoffs next season, we are not far away.

Though Kahn and Clifton had good games, everyone else a mixture of some very good moments and very bad moments. Clear we are trying some new ideas which is absolutely fine at this stage of the season.

In the matches against Tranmere,  Crewe and Wimbledon which are as mid table as you can get, i would like to see the likes of Battersby,  Khouri etc get a run out. Play best 11 against Stevenage to try and stop them going up, but if we don't give the younger players a chance to show what they can do now, we never will.

Quoted from rancido

I agree that PH allowed too short a notice for the players to absorb a new system. Indeed he may even be expecting too much of lower league players. However that doesn't explain some shocking passing, I think Smith made three in the first 10 mins that immediately put us under pressure. It also doesn't explain poor decision making, poor marking and slow closing down of opponents. These are all aspects of the game that should be second nature to players, even at this level. These are players that will have been coached in these things since their very early teens or even younger.

Not to mention getting the ball under control.  Far to often it's a player's first touch that puts him under pressure.

I think at this level a lot of goals conceded will be down to our own mistakes (various types).  The difficulty is trying to reduce the number of occurrences.  

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Or an alternative observation is that in the first half Michee wins the ball, beats a man, looks up crosses a really good ball in, Lloyd has time to bring it down but gets under it and heads it over.

Michee is no worse than several Town players when it comes to composure in attacking areas whether that’s poor ball control, passing, failing to see players in better space and pot shots.

I totally agree and missed the first half so didn't see this scenario.
Like I've said I like Michee. I've always thought he's steady at this level and in moments will make me stand up and go wow!

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Yes I agree and a lot of general play has turned to mush. I hope next season there is more emphasis of skill over endurance both individually and as a team.

I wonder how much actual coaching is going on? Hurst often tells us he has told players what he wants, but although professional players they still need coaching in how the manager wants to play. That brings us to the question of how does the manager want to play?

I hope Hurst has got it sorted in his head so we make the correct calls in the summer.

Given the fixture congestion, the travelling, the injuries and the need to recover i suspect there's been very little time in 2023 to do much coaching in that respect.

Quoted from friskneymariner

Agree what has been said previously Smith couldn't get rid of the ball quick enough,looked very nervous.The new style of play has signaled Hurst does not want to play with wingers,hence Werne J.MD. and Kieran  being got rid of .We haven't got the mid field to play out from the back.

How many times yesterday did Crocombe collect the ball and rush to the edge of his area to attempt to throw the ball to wide sided players and none were available as they had not moved into a space for him to reach them so he then played it out from the back through the defenders who then got closed down, or he kicked it upfield and it either went out of play or straight through everyone to the Mansfield keeper. So frustrating when we don’t move the ball forward quick enough.

Quoted from jimgtfc

Very frustrating first half. Mansfield set up by marking Maher from our goal kicks meaning we had to play to Smith, who clearly isn’t comfortable with the ball at his feet (and a reason he’ll struggle at Hull). This made our build up play clunky and wasteful and struggled to get the ball anywhere near the final third. This, combined with poor delivery from Efete, Gallagher (not sure we’ll see him again), and Kahn when we did get there meant that Taylor and Lloyd were nullified. Our midfield two were very safe and conservative with neither able to ‘break the lines’. All this contributed to almost zero attacking output. The less said about the incompetence of the man in the middle the better.

Second half changed. A clear bollockin from the manager and a change, with Glennon linking up excellently with Kahn and providing overlapping and underlapping runs, giving us some threat down the left. We started being a little more direct, without hoofing it, and it seemed to work.

Clearly improvement is needed in the squad, and not only in the obvious centre forward area. We desperately need some quality from wide areas. Efete’s delivery is awful, Harry isn’t a conventional winger so often finds himself cutting inside and by the time Kahn has done a trick and slowed the play right down, all the attackers have made their runs and are stood still and all the defenders have marked them. We could sign Haaland and I think he’d struggle because of the lack of quality service. We also need a central midfielder who can break forward occasionally and provide a goal threat (Harry?).

All in all, I don’t think we’re a million miles away, 4 or 5 ‘quality’ signings, the shackles taken off every once in a while from the off at home and we have a side with potential.

Granted Smith struggled with the ball yesterday, but I would say that is more of a poor game with the ball rather than him being poor with the ball. I think he's usually a really strong passer of the ball.

Quoted from Mappers

How does it actually work to go through as a ref is it qualification based ?

Or is it just a case of gaining experience and going through the levels ?

Never something i have really thought about before , you must have to be thick skinned though to do that with the amount you are going to 'take some'.

I've been led to understand we're paying for poor referees due to covid. Apparently, there was little or no evaluation of refs due to lock down. so, we've got referees who have come up from the NL. Another point is this VAR thing taking up personnel.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Or an alternative observation is that in the first half Michee wins the ball, beats a man, looks up crosses a really good ball in, Lloyd has time to bring it down but gets under it and heads it over.

Michee is no worse than several Town players when it comes to composure in attacking areas whether that’s poor ball control, passing, failing to see players in better space and pot shots.

I think fustrating is probably the right word to describe Efete. I guess that's what you get with players at this level and below.
His decision making and defending can on occasions be almost laughably bad but 90 seconds later he will do something outstanding that the majority of other players wouldn't be able to do.
It is the same going forward. One minute a fantastic powerful run to win a corner, the next an awful decision when in a good position.
I have noticed quite a few opposition fans have commented on him in a positive way, a Mansfield fan calls him a 'beast' on their forum. Southampton fans were very impressed with him and in that first half especially he looked the real deal.

I can kind of see why Hurst is sticking with him. There could well be a very decent player in there with a bit of time and confidence. Like I said there are moments when you question how is he a professional footballer, on the opposite side though when he is good he can be really good, well above most RBs in this division.

Suppose he is our TAA lol and gives Klopp, sorry Hurst, a dilemma.

Quoted from CSLM

I think fustrating is probably the right word to describe Efete. I guess that's what you get with players at this level and below.
His decision making and defending can on occasions be almost laughably bad but 90 seconds later he will do something outstanding that the majority of other players wouldn't be able to do.
It is the same going forward. One minute a fantastic powerful run to win a corner, the next an awful decision when in a good position.
I have noticed quite a few opposition fans have commented on him in a positive way, a Mansfield fan calls him a 'beast' on their forum. Southampton fans were very impressed with him and in that first half especially he looked the real deal.

I can kind of see why Hurst is sticking with him. There could well be a very decent player in there with a bit of time and confidence. Like I said there are moments when you question how is he a professional footballer, on the opposite side though when he is good he can be really good, well above most RBs in this division.

Suppose he is our TAA lol and gives Klopp, sorry Hurst, a dilemma.

Yes, maybe he could be a good player. But he is 26 and I feel that if he hasn't grasped the basics of being a good , recognised League defender by now then he never will. I know Cropper has come in for some stick and has been regarded as inferior to Effete, but he is younger and possibly got more time to develop as a good defender. The thing in Croppers favour is that he will get a lot more opportunities to launch a long throw into the opponent's penalty area than Effete will get to put a cross into the same area.

Quoted from rancido

Yes, maybe he could be a good player. But he is 26 and I feel that if he hasn't grasped the basics of being a good , recognised League defender by now then he never will. I know Cropper has come in for some stick and has been regarded as inferior to Effete, but he is younger and possibly got more time to develop as a good defender. The thing in Croppers favour is that he will get a lot more opportunities to launch a long throw into the opponent's penalty area than Effete will get to put a cross into the same area.

He is a good league defender and is far superior to Cropper. There's a reason Efete has played so often and Cropper is out on loan.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

He is a good league defender and is far superior to Cropper. There's a reason Efete has played so often and Cropper is out on loan.

I don't think Cropper has been given a fair chance to prove himself tbf. Injuries haven't helped on that front I suppose.He certainly played his part towards the end of last season even if you ignore those long throws.

Actually it isn't possible to ignore those long throws. They are such a weapon and we should have used it more. Highly likely some of those home defeats/ draws could've been turned into draws/ victories with half an hour of chaos.

Efete is frustrating. That ball in the second half was crappy considering the time he had. He was still our best attacking outlet in the first half albeit with little competition. He gets up and down in a way Cropper and Amos can't and without traditional wingers it's vital to provide some width. Glennon coming on meant we had a threat down both sides and I thought that was a massive part of us getting back into it as well as us being a lot more positive and looking to get the ball forward quicker.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

He is a good league defender and is far superior to Cropper. There's a reason Efete has played so often and Cropper is out on loan.

Yes, there is a good reason - PH thinks Effete is better than Cropper. It's all down to opinions. I would rather have Cropper as a regular full back than Effete but that is my opinion.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Efete is frustrating. That ball in the second half was crappy considering the time he had. He was still our best attacking outlet in the first half albeit with little competition. He gets up and down in a way Cropper and Amos can't and without traditional wingers it's vital to provide some width. Glennon coming on meant we had a threat down both sides and I thought that was a massive part of us getting back into it as well as us being a lot more positive and looking to get the ball forward quicker.

Agree, and with lots of posts on this thread.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

He is a good league defender and is far superior to Cropper. There's a reason Efete has played so often and Cropper is out on loan.

Cropper has only been out on loan for a few weeks, he’s been injured most of the season.

I’m not sure you can judge Cropper on a few L2 appearances this season.

I can't help but love Michee
He does make the odd boo boo and other bits and pieces , but there is something endearing about him ,cant put my finger on what .
Think we all just need to support him through his more difficult moments .

Quoted from rancido

Yes, maybe he could be a good player. But he is 26 and I feel that if he hasn't grasped the basics of being a good , recognised League defender by now then he never will. I know Cropper has come in for some stick and has been regarded as inferior to Effete, but he is younger and possibly got more time to develop as a good defender. The thing in Croppers favour is that he will get a lot more opportunities to launch a long throw into the opponent's penalty area than Effete will get to put a cross into the same area.

It is Michees first ever season in the league though , he could still improve on the flaws in his game. I think if we let him go he would be snapped up by another league 2 team be superb and then we would all be asking why did we let him go .In Michee we trust i say

Quoted from Mappers

It is Michees first ever season in the league though , he could still improve on the flaws in his game. I think if we let him go he would be snapped up by another league 2 team be superb and then we would all be asking why did we let him go .In Michee we trust i say

But you could also then question why he hasn't been snapped up by a League team since he was released by Norwich?

Re Cropper, you can`t put him the team regularly because he has a long throw. We need much more from him than that and, on balance, Efete offers much more than Cropper.

Quoted from rancido

Yes, there is a good reason - PH thinks Effete is better than Cropper. It's all down to opinions. I would rather have Cropper as a regular full back than Effete but that is my opinion.

So you think you know better than a professional football manager?

Cropper versus Efete? Not sure anyone can make a judgement to be honest as we’ve not seen enough of Cropper at this level.

Quoted from 123614

So you think you know better than a professional football manager?

Not at all. Like I said , that was just my opinion, which is what Message Boards like this are all about. On that basis then, do you agree with every team choice and game plan employed by PH. If you do then fine but if you don't then, by your logic, you know better than a professional football manager. Of course, you may be a professional manager in which case your opinion may have some validity.
Ian Hollowords was a professional football manager of many years experience at a higher level then us! Were you in agreement with his whole approach to managing our club?

Quoted from rancido

Not at all. Like I said , that was just my opinion, which is what Message Boards like this are all about. On that basis then, do you agree with every team choice and game plan employed by PH. If you do then fine but if you don't then, by your logic, you know better than a professional football manager. Of course, you may be a professional manager in which case your opinion may have some validity.
Ian Hollowords was a professional football manager of many years experience at a higher level then us! Were you in agreement with his whole approach to managing our club?

As far as I can remember I have never questioned PH's team selections, purely because he is a well thought of professional football manager, and I am not a manager of any kind.  As for Holloway, again he is a professional football manager, Correct me if am wrong, but I don't think you will find many, if any posts on here where I have criticised GTFC managers, it's because I know where my place is in regards to managing a professional football club.  Opinions are fine, I get it, but some are just way off the mark.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

He is a good league defender and is far superior to Cropper. There's a reason Efete has played so often and Cropper is out on loan.

He is no where near to being far superior, at times he is almost clueless when he is defending especially leaving the far post he should be defending.

There are several goals we have conceded that could be put down to his la la land defending, where as I can't think of a goal that was Cropper's fault, yes I know Cropper has played less games but that was down to being injured for some time and probably down to Hurst not picking him but looking at some of the teams Hurst has put out at home this season there are many on here who question his team selections.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Re Cropper, you can`t put him the team regularly because he has a long throw. We need much more from him than that and, on balance, Efete offers much more than Cropper.

Whether it means much, I don’t know, but Cropper was MoM in the Barnet Wrexham game on Saturday.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Whether it means much, I don’t know, but Cropper was MoM in the Barnet Wrexham game on Saturday.

Barnet fans are speaking very highly of him. Keep in mind he’s 22 years old; let’s not write him off too quickly…

https://www.onlybarnet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16859

Quoted from Poojah

Barnet fans are speaking very highly of him. Keep in mind he’s 22 years old; let’s not write him off too quickly…

https://www.onlybarnet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16859

I’m with you. He is a decent defender and, it must be remembered that he was in the team at the pivotal time of last season.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Efete is frustrating. That ball in the second half was crappy considering the time he had. He was still our best attacking outlet in the first half albeit with little competition. He gets up and down in a way Cropper and Amos can't and without traditional wingers it's vital to provide some width. Glennon coming on meant we had a threat down both sides and I thought that was a massive part of us getting back into it as well as us being a lot more positive and looking to get the ball forward quicker.

I’m not saying Efete isn’t better at getting up and down but I watched Cropper get up and down the pitch perfectly well on Saturday in a MOTM performance against the league leaders. Those throws offer something that no other RB in the league (and I’d argue the country) can offer as well.

Efete’s performances have raised enough questions this season for it not to be a cut & dry decision IMO, although I think Hurst has already made that decision.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Re Cropper, you can`t put him the team regularly because he has a long throw. We need much more from him than that and, on balance, Efete offers much more than Cropper.

That throw is the reason you’re posting on a just back thread after a League 2 game v Mansfield and not a non league one against Maidstone.

Quoted from pontoonlew

That throw is the reason you’re posting on a just back thread after a League 2 game v Mansfield and not a non league one against Maidstone.

Oh come on! That's way too simplistic. Last season was 50+ games with all sorts of twists and turns - if a single incident was the reason this is a League 2 board you could say the same of McAtee's equalizer, Mani's goal at Notts Cty, Taylor's goal at Wrexham or the Stockport lad getting sent off in the BP game and on and on....

Of course his throw led to that goal but it took a season of hard graft to get to that point.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Oh come on! That's way too simplistic. Last season was 50+ games with all sorts of twists and turns - if a single incident was the reason this is a League 2 board you could say the same of McAtee's equalizer, Mani's goal at Notts Cty, Taylor's goal at Wrexham or the Stockport lad getting sent off in the BP game and on and on....

Of course his throw led to that goal but it took a season of hard graft to get to that point.

The throw won us Wrexham and Solihull games, and created no end of other chances in the games. It also helped us get up the pitch on multiple occasions from otherwise difficult areas.

I bang on about it a lot I know but I really feel strongly about the fact the throw is worth it’s weight in gold to us, both defensively & going forward.

Quoted from Poojah

Barnet fans are speaking very highly of him. Keep in mind he’s 22 years old; let’s not write him off too quickly…

https://www.onlybarnet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16859

What would they know, they are not professional football managers.😉

Quoted from pontoonlew

The throw won us Wrexham and Solihull games, and created no end of other chances in the games. It also helped us get up the pitch on multiple occasions from otherwise difficult areas.

I bang on about it a lot I know but I really feel strongly about the fact the throw is worth it’s weight in gold to us, both defensively & going forward.

I'm with you on this.

I made the observation on another thread recently that, for a 22-year-old who played just 10 games for us (and isn't rated by many
Fishy experts) he made a very significant contribution to our escape from National League Hell.

He hasn't impressed Hurst as a right-back, it would appear, but maybe that's not his best position anyway - he started life as a striker.

I'm not suggesting he's our No.9-in-waiting (even if he's a fox-in-the-box he can't be in two places at once!), but as a replacement for
Green after 70 minutes, perhaps?

Green gets an early respite from his physically demanding role, and Cropper just has to stay on his feet and shield the back line.
(The opposition midfield will have a sufficient number of bruises already courtesy of KG.)

And we get the benefit of his long throws: from near our corner flag he can reach the opponent's half, and from the opponent's half
he can bomb their penalty area.

We have had trouble breaking down sides at BP, and he represents a pretty simple method for applying pressure.
Particularly so, now that Hurst has declared an interest in signing taller players for next season.

I'd keep him.


Edit: And he's at an age where he can improve. Just read the Barnet fans' views - check them out.

Quoted from pontoonlew

The throw won us Wrexham and Solihull games, and created no end of other chances in the games. It also helped us get up the pitch on multiple occasions from otherwise difficult areas.

I bang on about it a lot I know but I really feel strongly about the fact the throw is worth it’s weight in gold to us, both defensively & going forward.

You absolutely have to accommodate that throw in your team. Where did he play on Saturday? I got told at the weekend that he has been playing RCB in a back 3.

I never understand why so many teams are poor at throw ins. The average team can have 30-40 throw ins during a game, compared to 10-12 free kicks and 10 corners if they are lucky. Defensively it relieves pressure and offensively, it causes so much havoc. Ben Foster has recently talked about how effective Tozer's throw is at Wrexham.

Quoted from 137

I'm with you on this.

I made the observation on another thread recently that, for a 22-year-old who played just 10 games for us (and isn't rated by many
Fishy experts) he made a very significant contribution to our escape from National League Hell.

He hasn't impressed Hurst as a right-back, it would appear, but maybe that's not his best position anyway - he started life as a striker.

I'm not suggesting he's our No.9-in-waiting (even if he's a fox-in-the-box he can't be in two places at once!), but as a replacement for
Green after 70 minutes, perhaps?

Green gets an early respite from his physically demanding role, and Cropper just has to stay on his feet and shield the back line.
(The opposition midfield will have a sufficient number of bruises already courtesy of KG.)

And we get the benefit of his long throws: from near our corner flag he can reach the opponent's half, and from the opponent's half
he can bomb their penalty area.

We have had trouble breaking down sides at BP, and he represents a pretty simple method for applying pressure.
Particularly so, now that Hurst has declared an interest in signing taller players for next season.

I'd keep him.


Edit: And he's at an age where he can improve. Just read the Barnet fans' views - check them out.

He hasn't had much chance to impress PH, seeing as he's been injured for a large part of the season.

He was probably sent out on loan to get some match fitness after a long lay off, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is still here next season. Clearly has potential which is why Burnley signed him from Ilkeston, but he keeps getting injured and has never really got going anywhere.

I'm at the point where I think I just want Cropper back so someone other than Maher can take throws!

Quoted from ginnywings

He hasn't had much chance to impress PH, seeing as he's been injured for a large part of the season.

He was probably sent out on loan to get some match fitness after a long lay off, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is still here next season. Clearly has potential which is why Burnley signed him from Ilkeston, but he keeps getting injured and has never really got going anywhere.

Fair point.

I was also thinking about the slight misunderstanding at the start of his loan, where Barnet were making noises suggesting he
would become a permanent signing and PH clarified that it was a loan...and added something like "we can talk about a permanent
transfer at a later date". At the time I took it to mean he would consider that possibility (at the very least).

Reflecting on it now, it would be the right thing to say even if he intended to keep JC next season.
If he's gone to get match fitness as you suggest, it would be daft of Paul to say "but you're not keeping him..." as that may get
Cropper less game time.

As so often as a football fan, we'll have to wait and see.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

You absolutely have to accommodate that throw in your team. Where did he play on Saturday? I got told at the weekend that he has been playing RCB in a back 3.

I never understand why so many teams are poor at throw ins. The average team can have 30-40 throw ins during a game, compared to 10-12 free kicks and 10 corners if they are lucky. Defensively it relieves pressure and offensively, it causes so much havoc. Ben Foster has recently talked about how effective Tozer's throw is at Wrexham.

Absolutely. There's a reason some top clubs (with the resources to do this) employ a throw-in coach. Yeah it sounds ridiculous to the old school football crowd. But I read a stat 2 years ago that said possession is lost from 75% of throw ins (unsure what the sample was).

Obviously I'm not suggesting we have a throw in coach, but in League 2, where there must be more throw ins than at higher levels as the ball ends up out of play a lot more, it's worth having a plan for throw-ins. Regardless of whether there's a long throw within the ranks.

Quoted from Tommy

Absolutely. There's a reason some top clubs (with the resources to do this) employ a throw-in coach. Yeah it sounds ridiculous to the old school football crowd. But I read a stat 2 years ago that said possession is lost from 75% of throw ins (unsure what the sample was).

Obviously I'm not suggesting we have a throw in coach, but in League 2, where there must be more throw ins than at higher levels as the ball ends up out of play a lot more, it's worth having a plan for throw-ins. Regardless of whether there's a long throw within the ranks.

We are dragging Maher out of position to take an ineffective throw, we would be much better having Maher in the box and taking a short throw to somebody on the pitch with a decent cross.

I have to say I’m yet to be completely convinced by Maher’s long throw in terms of the value it adds, loops in at the near post, easy to spot & pretty easy to defend against judging by the impact it’s had so far.

Where as when the likes of Cropper does it it’s done at a pace that allows the player in the end of it to head it in with some pace.

Quoted from 137

Fair point.

I was also thinking about the slight misunderstanding at the start of his loan, where Barnet were making noises suggesting he
would become a permanent signing and PH clarified that it was a loan...and added something like "we can talk about a permanent
transfer at a later date". At the time I took it to mean he would consider that possibility (at the very least).

Reflecting on it now, it would be the right thing to say even if he intended to keep JC next season.
If he's gone to get match fitness as you suggest, it would be daft of Paul to say "but you're not keeping him..." as that may get
Cropper less game time.

As so often as a football fan, we'll have to wait and see.

Thing is, we don't know what PH has in mind for Cropper, or anyone else for that matter.

He may have already decided to let him go and is putting him in the shop window, or he may just be seeing how he does in proper games and whether he breaks down again. He's already had 2 long lay offs in his career with hamstring problems, which is normally an injury that requires a few weeks, not a few months as in his case.

Think he has only played about ten games for us and he may be another Max Wright.

Interview with the leading throw in coach here - https://breakingthelines.com/interview/the-art-of-the-throw-in-an-interview-with-the-throw-in-coach-thomas-gronnemark/

Quoted from ginnywings

Thing is, we don't know what PH has in mind for Cropper, or anyone else for that matter.

He may have already decided to let him go and is putting him in the shop window, or he may just be seeing how he does in proper games and whether he breaks down again. He's already had 2 long lay offs in his career with hamstring problems, which is normally an injury that requires a few weeks, not a few months as in his case.

Think he has only played about ten games for us and he may be another Max Wright.

I got the impression, right or wrong, that when questioned about Cropper Hurst was very keen to say he would be staying at Barnet for another month. To me, his tone of the answer was he's not coming back!

As I say I could be wrong. Personally, I like both Eftete, for his attacking role, and Cropper, for his long pacy throws. However as defenders then they both need to improve.

Cropper last featured in our match day squad in mid-November.  Since he featured we've added another player into his position (Emmanuel).

With two players ahead of him, at least for the minute anyway, if Hurst viewed him as one he doesn't particularly want to keep for another contract I would have imagined he would have released him from his contract or given him a free transfer to Barnet rather than a loan.

Perhaps wishful thinking as I would like to see the lad stay here, prove his fitness and be an asset.  But I wonder if Hurst is looking to keep him and sees this as about getting the lad an extended run somewhere with a view to challenging for a place next season here.

In simple terms, and it may sound harsher than I actually mean it, but Efete is an athlete, not a footballer.

Quoted from Tommy

In simple terms, and it may sound harsher than I actually mean it, but Efete is an athlete, not a footballer.

He's an excellent athlete and an average footballer with a good eye for goal and ability to play in 3 different positions.

You don't get all round excellence in league 2, or not for very long. Everything is a trade off: ability, attitude, athleticism, fitness, etc.

Quoted from bedders78

He's an excellent athlete and an average footballer with a good eye for goal and ability to play in 3 different positions.

You don't get all round excellence in league 2, or not for very long. Everything is a trade off: ability, attitude, athleticism, fitness, etc.

Given that we have two full backs on our coaching team, I would have hoped to see him improve during his time here. I’m afraid that he still has the same defensive flaws that he had when he arrived.

Defensively, I'm pretty happy with Efete.

Sure, he makes errors, but recovers from more of them than not due to his athleticism. It's just a shame that he apparently isn't able to improve his crossing and decision-making when driving forward so he's not really cut out for being a wing-back or a full-back with a great attacking threat.

I think Cropper looked a pretty solid full-back during the run-in last season. Not nearly as athletic as Efete, but perhaps with slightly better positioning. A better crosser of the ball, but more of a defensive player with only the offensive threat of that massive throw-in!

The fact Cropper has only been fit to play for short spells of the past couple of seasons shows where his problem lies. It's a big gamble just hoping that a player with past injury problems will be able to stay fit throughout the course of a season.

If Cropper was to stay, we'd need to have an attacker with pace playing ahead of him, I think.

I do think that Efete has played performed pretty well in a back three where his athleticism helps but we're lacking the wing-back who can bomb forward in front of him.

A lot depends on what Hurst ends up planning for next season. Three at the back has worked out OK in many (mostly away) games but we've sort of fallen into it due to the injuries we had at the start of the year. I don't think any of our full-backs are really great wing-backs so setting up in a way which leaves us a bit light on attacking threat isn't the best idea for home games.

I have to say, I don't think that Maher's throw is all that bad. It obviously pales in comparison to Cropper's howitzers, but the biggest issue is that our main aerial threat is Waterfall who is about 6'2" (with barely any other six-footers in the box) and most teams we face have a couple of defenders who are at least a couple of inches taller than him. If we had a Dieseruvwe-type of figure to compete for the first flick-on, I think Maher's throw would appear a bit more effective.

You might think I am talking rubbish ( it has been known  )

BUT

I wonder if Efete has been tried as a striker, he has pace can head a ball , he is big and could or should be able to hold his own in the penalty box plus we know he has an eye for goal.

I am talking in training and if not why not there is nothing to lose.

If he has and been ok in that position maybe we do not have to pay big money to get that elusive No. 9 .

We might see him tried in a match before the season ends.

Just a thought .

Quoted from grimsby pete

You might think I am talking rubbish ( it has been known  )

BUT

I wonder if Efete has been tried as a striker, he has pace can head a ball , he is big and could or should be able to hold his own in the penalty box plus we know he has an eye for goal.

I am talking in training and if not why not there is nothing to lose.

If he has and been ok in that position maybe we do not have to pay big money to get that elusive No. 9 .

We might see him tried in a match before the season ends.

Just a thought .

Keep taking the tablets Pete I’m sure you will recover shortly 😀😀

Quoted from Maringer

I have to say, I don't think that Maher's throw is all that bad. It obviously pales in comparison to Cropper's howitzers, but the biggest issue is that our main aerial threat is Waterfall who is about 6'2" (with barely any other six-footers in the box) and most teams we face have a couple of defenders who are at least a couple of inches taller than him. If we had a Dieseruvwe-type of figure to compete for the first flick-on, I think Maher's throw would appear a bit more effective.

I completely agree with you that our options from a 'standard' long throw are limited.  But I think Maher's throw is actually quite poor.

It's not really long so your only option is to go for that very near post flick-on.  The pace and trajectory of it makes it fairly easy to defend against.  Be it Waterfall, Smith, Taylor, you could have anyone going for that flick-on and they're going to be faced with defenders hemming them in and the time to push/pull you so the man in front has a free header.

It's the sort of long throw that you could use to move up the pitch perhaps but I really don't see it as an attacking option.  That's not even looking at it in comparison to Cropper either, I just think it's totally ineffective.  

It's an attacking option when the team isn't great at crossing or passing!

Certainly an asset for getting the ball further up the field. I agree, it's not a massive threat, but then it's no different to most of the long throws we see from other teams week-in, week-out. It's better than nothing which is what we get from our other players.

Quoted from Maringer

It's an attacking option when the team isn't great at crossing or passing!

Certainly an asset for getting the ball further up the field. I agree, it's not a massive threat, but then it's no different to most of the long throws we see from other teams week-in, week-out. It's better than nothing which is what we get from our other players.

I don’t see enough benefit in Maher’s throw to justify him leaving his position to take it. Unlike Cropper.

I do. It's not brilliant, but it's not terrible.

As long as we aren't playing for throws and Maher only takes close to the box, it's worth using from time to time.

In the absence of being able to pass and cross the ball effectively, it offers the option to get the ball into dangerous areas.

If we could score more goals from open play, that would obviously be better, but the division as a whole seem to be pretty crap in this regard.

I agree with the posters saying that Maher's throw isn't worth persisting with.

It's not THAT long a throw. But the main difference, as others have probably said, to Croppers, is the trajectory.

The trajectory of the ball and the angle it arrives in the box at, gives defenders the edge in winning the header.

Croppers low flat trajectory means it's coming in almost horizontally, so if the defender is marking goal-side (which they will be obviously), our player is favourite to get a flick/glancing header on it before the defender behind him, because the defender would have to go through him to do so.

Whereas with Maher's throw, it is looped up in the air so comes down almost as if someone has thrown it up in the air from under the two players challenging for it. So it becomes more of a 50-50 as there's no advantage given by the trajectory of the ball. And with League 2 defenders generally being better in the air than strikers, they win the first ball from Maher's throw more often than not.