I wonder if mental and physical fatigue is now kicking in, exactly the same as the premiershite stars go off the boil, or become susceptible to injury, the season after a world cup or Euros, when they don't have a proper break to recharge their minds and bodies.
We have 6 players who haven't had a break in 18 months , plus another 3 who have sustained long term injuries and I think suspect this why performances have tailed off and why decision making on the pitch has gone downhill

There's always 1 or 2 teams that slip imperceptibly down the table post Xmas, and become mired in a desperate relegation scrap,and this year it's us and Crawley. We are in a relegation fight, make no bones about it, and things could be even worse come 5pm on Saturday

Decent opening post. I think at league 2 level there isn't a great deal between a lot of the players . It's very much dog eat dog. Players I think do get mentally and physically tired  and even fan expectations can get to them. I know some managers in the game can rotate players which benefit their on field performances eg some players play better if there not playing Saturday then  Tuesday but rested for the midweek game or brought on as a sub following the Saturday game.

It's why if you've been blessed with abundant natural ability things can come so much easier for you and football can be that much more fluid.Your not one of the masses of footballers who are competing against each other in the lower levels for pay which won't secure your family's future long term .  Iam talking levels here though and admittedly them players wouldn't be plying their trade in the bottom basement of English football .

Quoted from forza ivano

I wonder if mental and physical fatigue is now kicking in, exactly the same as the premiershite stars go off the boil, or become susceptible to injury, the season after a world cup or Euros, when they don't have a proper break to recharge their minds and bodies.
We have 6 players who haven't had a break in 18 months , plus another 3 who have sustained long term injuries and I think suspect this why performances have tailed off and why decision making on the pitch has gone downhill

There's always 1 or 2 teams that slip imperceptibly down the table post Xmas, and become mired in a desperate relegation scrap,and this year it's us and Crawley. We are in a relegation fight, make no bones about it, and things could be even worse come 5pm on Saturday

I think you're right on all counts, Andy. I've seen a lot of this before. A desperate run just as other teams start to pick up points as other sides generally tend to do when push comes to shove.

It can change quickly though. Donny were four points ahead of us with two more games played just over a week ago and they are now in with a shout of the play-offs. I can't see us winning three on the trot like them at the moment though. Would love to be proved wrong.

On a happier note, I saw Ross Hannah bag a good hat-trick at Rossington Main last night. Twenty-six goals so far for him this season. He's really enjoying himself.

I think you can add to the fatigue of those 6 (although struggling to find the 6 - Efete, Waterfall, Clifton...perhaps Maher, although he had a longer pre-season?) that the other lads who've come in have generally had a lack of sustained game time for a while.  The new loan lads all have lacked decent runs in the first team, Emmanuel has barely played.  Even the likes of Smith should really be protected somewhat at this stage of their career.  Holohan and Amos came into our team last year with ring rust and then haven't had a proper rest in 12 months.

Good point and I think it's bound to have an impact.  

just waiting for someone to mention the extra fatigue to the players that commute everyday and how it would be better to have a training ground near donny !!!! ::)(book1)(icon_eek)(fight)

Quoted from forza ivano

I wonder if mental and physical fatigue is now kicking in, exactly the same as the premiershite stars go off the boil, or become susceptible to injury, the season after a world cup or Euros, when they don't have a proper break to recharge their minds and bodies.
We have 6 players who haven't had a break in 18 months , plus another 3 who have sustained long term injuries and I think suspect this why performances have tailed off and why decision making on the pitch has gone downhill

There's always 1 or 2 teams that slip imperceptibly down the table post Xmas, and become mired in a desperate relegation scrap,and this year it's us and Crawley. We are in a relegation fight, make no bones about it, and things could be even worse come 5pm on Saturday

I think you have made a very good point. What is greatly apparent this season is that 'the never say die' attitude of last season has withered away.

6 are crocombe, efete, smith, waterfall, holohan, clifton. Should've perhaps said 12-18  months which wouldve also brought in amos as well.

Amond scored another goal for Woking last night (at Wrexham).

……


The fatigue issue is arguably a relevant factor.

3 Tough sudden death playoff matches, shorter break.  Adjusting to a higher division.

Then the additional workload, stress and energy linked to a good cup run.  Tiredness increases the risk of injuries and uncharacteristic mistakes.

Do the players raise their game for the FAC?

  No tiredness against Luton in 2 games (when down to the bare bones).

The team also played very well against Crewe.

I suspect that they have to play better in a one-off game against better opposition.  Digging into limited reserves.

The price to pay could be performances in the more mundane League games.  Still a massive disparity cup v league performances/results.

We were the better team in all 5 FAC matches.  If you put fatigue in players minds, they will be tired.  An easy excuse or reason. Other factors must also impact.  Difficult to assess and correct.

Hardly just kicking in though....we are still living off one strong spell earlier in the season, results havnt been great in a while , fa cup aside .
Too many grafters, not enough guile, no real pace in vital areas...when we meet a team that matches our legs/fitness we are snookered.  
Last night I thought they were there for the taking during the first half as we looked very comfortable but we were  also lacking in the final third....the final passes crosses etc just not good enough,  overhit,  slightly delayed, slightly behind etc and throughout the game we rarely threatened anyone in a one v one situation.

I think we're looking for excuses that aren't there. So is anyone saying that if our players not fatigued they're good enough to beat most teams in the division? I'm not too sure about that. We're lacking a bit of pace and a bit of strength as it stands, and probably a bit of footballing ability to be at the top end of this division, mainly in midfield. Can't remember too many games where we've bossed that area, not enough to make us a solid side that picks up points on a regular basis and has enough to avoid a long slump that we've been having. Cup apart, it's been four months now. We've got enough to stay up, but nowhere near enough to get into the top half, which is a shame, because we'll need to look progressive as a club in the summer transfer window, and we won't. From the outside, same old Grimsby, bottom half League Two, looking over their shoulders once again..

Quoted from Bigdog

I think we're looking for excuses that aren't there. So is anyone saying that if our players not fatigued they're good enough to beat most teams in the division? I'm not too sure about that. We're lacking a bit of pace and a bit of strength as it stands, and probably a bit of footballing ability to be at the top end of this division, mainly in midfield. ..

I think team bonding makes a difference eg if you have a team with strong characters in it that get on well that can go a long way . Competition for places is  another  bonus. Keeps everyone on their toes and standards high. Easier said than done though as football can be a merry go round as keeping a team in place over a sustained period is hard with scouts always on the look out willing to pry promising/ decent  players away with better contracts and football higher up the league's.  

Yes I’m always bloody tired!

They'd be fcuked on a trawler, down a mine or in a steelworks then.

Quoted from GYinScuntland

They'd be fcuked on a trawler, down a mine or in a steelworks then.

Or doing double-nights at the airport before heading off to a Town away game hundreds of miles away.

The desire to find absolutely any excuse as to why we’re excrement as opposed to accepting the obvious amongst some of our fans is admirable

Never got this fatigue thing with pro footbllers. They work about 5 hrs a day get home if its a long drive before most people are near finishing their 8-10 hours. If travelling a distance they can sit back in a luxury bus, overnight stays in nice hotels if needed. Would swap the stress and fatigue Ive had at times in my work for theirs at a drop of a hat. Dont know theyre born when I was a lad......

When I read the Daily Mail health pages (at my mothers I may add I take the Guardian of course) it says if you exercise a lot and eat well you feel less tired

Quoted from Madeleymariner

Never got this fatigue thing with pro footbllers. They work about 5 hrs a day get home if its a long drive before most people are near finishing their 8-10 hours. If travelling a distance they can sit back in a luxury bus, overnight stays in nice hotels if needed. Would swap the stress and fatigue Ive had at times in my work for theirs at a drop of a hat. Dont know theyre born when I was a lad......

I think though playing 90 minutes football especially if you've put in the effort  does  take it out of you especially if you have another game 3 days later. It's a lot more intense physically than  working in a office or other professions. It's why a lot retire in their 30s as the energy levels  starts dropping off, more so if you haven't looked after yourself eg likewise you hardly get anyone playing in the 40s at a decent level bar the odd goalkeeper. Added to that the success rate in football and retainment rate is a lot less than other professions. Look at how many come through the academys ( not many) . Point being to make it in professional football isn't easy and very few achieve the dream ( even 1 or 2 games playing for a professional club can be considered a success of sorts)  from the many that go into academy football as children.  Your  much likelier to make it in other professions than say being a professional footballer ( even league 2).

Quoted from Rick12

I think though playing 90 minutes football especially if you've put in the effort  does  take it out of you especially if you have another game 3 days later. It's a lot more intense physically than  working in a office or other professions. It's why a lot retire in their 30s as the energy levels  starts dropping off, more so if you haven't looked after yourself eg likewise you hardly get anyone playing in the 40s at a decent level bar the odd goalkeeper. Added to that the success rate in football and retainment rate is a lot less than other professions. Look at how many come through the academys ( not many) . Point being to make it in professional football isn't easy and very few achieve the dream ( even 1 or 2 games playing for a professional club can be considered a success of sorts)  from the many that go into academy football as children.  Your  much likelier to make it in other professions than say being a professional footballer ( even league 2).

and of course Clifton, Warefall etc aren't playing against trawlermen, steelworkers, coalminers, amazon workers - they're competing against fellow pro's who've had the benefit of a 3 month break.
not excuses, it's reasons....

Quoted from Madeleymariner

Never got this fatigue thing with pro footbllers. They work about 5 hrs a day get home if its a long drive before most people are near finishing their 8-10 hours. If travelling a distance they can sit back in a luxury bus, overnight stays in nice hotels if needed. Would swap the stress and fatigue Ive had at times in my work for theirs at a drop of a hat. Dont know theyre born when I was a lad......

you never heard anything about ron jeremy complaining about not getting any rest

Quoted from forza ivano

Clifton, Waterfall

I like their attitude Forza. I read from one fan on  here that they saw for one Harry  Clifton doing extra training in the local park. I admire that. Reminds me a bit of  the attitude of  Christiano Ronaldo. Prepared to sacrifice and go the extra mile to improve himself .

Maybe they are fatigued as Hurst wants them running up and back  instead of having players with the skill to make the ball do the work .

Quoted from forza ivano

and of course Clifton, Warefall etc aren't playing against trawlermen, steelworkers, coalminers, amazon workers - they're competing against fellow pro's who've had the benefit of a 3 month break.
not excuses, it's reasons....

It absolutely is excuses. We've been shite all season. The first 10 games we picked up about 10 points more than we deserved by teams missing hatfulls of sitters. The difference now is that they're not.

Those points will probably save us, but quite clearly we aren't good enough.

Quoted from pen penfras

It absolutely is excuses. We've been shite all season. The first 10 games we picked up about 10 points more than we deserved by teams missing hatfulls of sitters. The difference now is that they're not.

Those points will probably save us, but quite clearly we aren't good enough.

Try telling that to Luton or Plymouth.

To justify this very dubious assertion, you assert that we picked up points undeservedly during the first 10 games.
Well that's football - sometimes you get points you don't deserve, and at other times the opposite applies. There's a considerable
amount of luck involved in this 'beautiful game', not least in the inconsistent and sometimes baffling behaviour of the referees.

You take it on the chin as a football fan, telling yourself the luck evens out over the course of a season (whether you believe that or not).

It's very easy to say "we aren't good enough" when results are going against us (no sh!t, Sherlock), but good enough for what?
Play-offs, Automatic promotion, League 1, Championship, Premiership, Champions League????
We're always going to be "not good enough" for something, so it's just a cheap shot at the club imo.

Forza is offering fatigue as one possible reason for our disappointing form - which you view as an excuse. You're entitled etc..

Your offering is that we were lucky early on in the season, and now that L2 strikers have suddenly stopped missing sitters (  ;D )
we've been shown to be the 'sh1te' we were all along. Bit far-fetched for me...and for Luton and Plymouth if they were asked, I'm sure.

Provided we're good enough to remain a L2 club that's good enough for me this time around. I think we're in agreement that we'll be
OK on that one.

Then - with the benefit of the experience January gave us, we seek to improve again in the summer.

Every football fans want their team to be better, but calling us "sh1te" gets nobody anywhere.

Quoted from pen penfras

It absolutely is excuses. We've been shite all season. The first 10 games we picked up about 10 points more than we deserved by teams missing hatfulls of sitters. The difference now is that they're not.

Those points will probably save us, but quite clearly we aren't good enough.

Is that like we were shite last season yet went from January to the end only losing 3 games and then winning all three playoff matches away, in extra time?

We’re not shite this year at all, it’s a just a sweeping generalisation. To say that would imply we’re flukey or didn’t deserve those wins which is absolute balderdash. Take Stockport away, excrement teams don’t go away and dominate. Plymouth at home, Crewe twice, Luton, Walsall, Colchester away and so on. You don’t win those games if you’re shite.

I think the word everyone is looking for is, inconsistent. That’s an issue but to say we’re shite is bullshit…

I don't think fatigue is an excuse at all. I think there are a number of obstacles that we have had to contend with due to the short turnaround and fatigue is a very valid one of them.

I am disappointed with how the league season is currently panning out, my expectations were to finish higher than 14th (highest position since 2006) and I was hopeful of a cup run. We've achieved one of them, hopefully we can turn our league form around and finish the season positively.

It’s a sensible conversation to have regarding fatigue and very short pre season.

They might be mentally fatigued by Hursts failure to get the couple of quality players the team needed to give it some respite.

The biggest problem is that the ball is not sticking up front to give us time to re-set when we are under pressure. Last season Manni came in to that job when Taylor was subbed or given a rest.

You can already see that the young on loan players will be bit part players before going back to their clubs. It is hard enough in league 2 for grizzled pros let alone young kids.

A big re-think of transfer strategy needed in the summer.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

They might be mentally fatigued by Hursts failure to get the couple of quality players the team needed to give it some respite.

The biggest problem is that the ball is not sticking up front to give us time to re-set when we are under pressure. Last season Manni came in to that job when Taylor was subbed or given a rest.

You can already see that the young on loan players will be bit part players before going back to their clubs. It is hard enough in league 2 for grizzled pros let alone young kids.

A big re-think of transfer strategy needed in the summer.

I think the main cause of mental fatigue, assuming they have it, is that there wasn't enough time to process the manner of what we achieved last June and then switch off to recharge their batteries before coming back.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

They might be mentally fatigued by Hursts failure to get the couple of quality players the team needed to give it some respite.

The biggest problem is that the ball is not sticking up front to give us time to re-set when we are under pressure. Last season Manni came in to that job when Taylor was subbed or given a rest.

You can already see that the young on loan players will be bit part players before going back to their clubs. It is hard enough in league 2 for grizzled pros let alone young kids.

A big re-think of transfer strategy needed in the summer.

So what in your opinion was wrong with our transfer strategy in January?  He hired a Head of Recruiting, that has to be a plus, but I'm guessing you're 'rethinking' the transfer window in the summer will involve offering more money to players that we want, that won't happen as it appears that we are sticking to a budget that we will not go over, and rightly so.  The other thing is location, we cannot change where we are, and it is a fact that both Dallas and Hopper said they didn't want to come here, as quoted by PH.  So, what else do we do to get the players in that you think we should have done in January?

I think it is always likely to be more difficult to get good players in during January than the summer months. The big clubs can pay the money to sign players to hopefully improve their chances of promotion/play-offs/avoid relegation, but the rest of us are feeding on scraps and trying to either sign players whose clubs don't want them or tempt players to sign rather than going on a Bosman in the summer. Dallas (and perhaps Emmanuel?) were the latter but Dallas decided to wait for a bigger move/the chance of more money. Emmanuel just wants to play games to get himself fit and in the shop window. The other arrivals are just loanees but for the lad from Crawley whose situation is an odd one due to the shenanigans going on down there. Last season was very unusual in the way that the players who came in after Christmas all improved the squad and played an important part in the run in. More often than not, I'd say that players signed mid-season don't have much of an impact straight away, though some do improve the following season.

What we need now is a few results to steady the ship to ensure we keep clear of the relegation mire and then, hopefully, Hurst can begin to look at targets for the summer. The money from the Cup run should help in this regard and Hurst won't have any excuses if he can't get the signings we need during the close season.

Quoted from 123614

So what in your opinion was wrong with our transfer strategy in January?  He hired a Head of Recruiting, that has to be a plus, but I'm guessing you're 'rethinking' the transfer window in the summer will involve offering more money to players that we want, that won't happen as it appears that we are sticking to a budget that we will not go over, and rightly so.  The other thing is location, we cannot change where we are, and it is a fact that both Dallas and Hopper said they didn't want to come here, as quoted by PH.  So, what else do we do to get the players in that you think we should have done in January?

The Head of Recruitment wasn't likely to bring immediate success but the owners have a decision to make. Either they spend money to attract the players he identifies or he's wasting his time. Our stubborn manager (which he admits himself) decided to play the waiting game in the window - it didn't work. We need to make strategic choices otherwise our investment in recruitment staff looks a. a bit silly and b. an utter waste of money.

Quoted from 123614

So what in your opinion was wrong with our transfer strategy in January?  He hired a Head of Recruiting, that has to be a plus, but I'm guessing you're 'rethinking' the transfer window in the summer will involve offering more money to players that we want, that won't happen as it appears that we are sticking to a budget that we will not go over, and rightly so.  The other thing is location, we cannot change where we are, and it is a fact that both Dallas and Hopper said they didn't want to come here, as quoted by PH.  So, what else do we do to get the players in that you think we should have done in January?

I think firstly the manager needs to decide what he wants. He has signed endless players (yes, they were all happy to come to Grimsby) who are cast aside in short order. Usually it seems because they weren't hard working enough ?

If his requirement is to sign players whose main attribute is to work hard then just get them and stop wasting everybody's time.

What system does he want to play? He seems to sign all sorts of players but is always unsure of the system or tactics. If you knew the formation you might not get through so many players.

League 2 quality. That is a basic requirement.  By that I mean players who can stand the rigours of league 2, and not the endless stream of loanees who can't make their mark.

Stop keep signing endless squad players. How many players does he get through? How on earth can you have incremental improvement with such a player turnover?

Fewer core players on more money to attract the better players?

Whatever the longer term aims, put the playing budget first, even if it means taking longer to make some of the improvements.

There is all sorts we can do but losing all our main targets is not an option or we struggle which is a shame given the support we have.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

The Head of Recruitment wasn't likely to bring immediate success but the owners have a decision to make. Either they spend money to attract the players he identifies or he's wasting his time. Our stubborn manager (which he admits himself) decided to play the waiting game in the window - it didn't work. We need to make strategic choices otherwise our investment in recruitment staff looks a. a bit silly and b. an utter waste of money.

Surely a key part of the Head of Recruitment role is also to identify players they believe meet our budgetary needs?

The HOR has only just started so any database of knowledge he had pre-built wouldn't have been entirely suitable for us. Any criticism of him for January is unfair I think.

If the HOR is only identifying players that are out of our budget, then the parameters need tweaking.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Surely a key part of the Head of Recruitment role is also to identify players they believe meet our budgetary needs?

The HOR has only just started so any database of knowledge he had pre-built wouldn't have been entirely suitable for us. Any criticism of him for January is unfair I think.

If the HOR is only identifying players that are out of our budget, then the parameters need tweaking.

That's pretty much what I said.

I'd be interested to know what you think the parameters should be.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I think firstly the manager needs to decide what he wants. He has signed endless players (yes, they were all happy to come to Grimsby) who are cast aside in short order. Usually it seems because they weren't hard working enough ?

If his requirement is to sign players whose main attribute is to work hard then just get them and stop wasting everybody's time.

What system does he want to play? He seems to sign all sorts of players but is always unsure of the system or tactics. If you knew the formation you might not get through so many players.

League 2 quality. That is a basic requirement.  By that I mean players who can stand the rigours of league 2, and not the endless stream of loanees who can't make their mark.

Stop keep signing endless squad players. How many players does he get through? How on earth can you have incremental improvement with such a player turnover?

Fewer core players on more money to attract the better players?

Whatever the longer term aims, put the playing budget first, even if it means taking longer to make some of the improvements.

There is all sorts we can do but losing all our main targets is not an option or we struggle which is a shame given the support we have.

I think that assessment could apply to most, if not all, League 2 teams.

They all chop and change players, formations and tactics for varying reasons, and most of them have a load of squad fillers.

We aren't unique in a league where most of the teams are much of a muchness.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

That's pretty much what I said.

I'd be interested to know what you think the parameters should be.

The parameters have to align with budget etc. He's an absolutely pointless appointment if he's tasked with finding players we have no chance of securing.

A lot of our transfer income in recent years has come from players below like Bogle and Hearn (didn't sell Hearn due to injury but we could have got a tidy sum otherwise) or good young players released elsewhere (Bennett, Dembele, Pollock, Burrell). We've ocassionally had some local lads fetch a decent fee without playing a game (Barlow and Grist) but I think a lot of his work should be focused on these areas because we can genuinely sell the success stories.

Going back to when 1878 took over JS, AP and DC all said they had no experience in running a football club and it was going to be a steep learning curve. 18 months on and I get the impression it came as a shock that initial transfer targets did not want to come to play for Grimsby.

They had their 5 year plan which I suspect did not include promotion last year, so I suspect it's been redrawn. The problems highlighted in the last transfer window, especially by JS seem to have come as a shock to him; but probably not to Hurst.

It may be that 1878 will have to redraw their transfer budget plans again to entice the targets HOR and Hurst want.

And Michael Reddy as well.

I think that last Sat morning we could have got into the playoffs if we had won all our games in hand.  That speaks for itself, even if very unlikely.

Impressive Playoff matches last season and 5 excellent FA Cup performances and results against higher league opponents demonstrates that we can raise our game.  Considerably.  

We have a poor record over our last 10 /15 supposedly easier League games.  

The  cup v league performances and results are the polar opposites.  Hard to explain with any confidence.

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

And Michael Reddy as well.

I think that last Sat morning we could have got into the playoffs if we had won all our games in hand.  That speaks for itself, even if very unlikely.

Impressive Playoff matches last season and 5 excellent FA Cup performances and results against higher league opponents demonstrates that we can raise our game.  Considerably.  

We have a poor record over our last 10 /15 supposedly easier League games.  

The  cup v league performances and results are the polar opposites.  Hard to explain with any confidence.

Given that we can't fill the matchday squad for the FA Cup, perhaps there is a large burden of personal responsibility on those eligible players to remain able to play?

Quoted from pen penfras

It absolutely is excuses. We've been shite all season. The first 10 games we picked up about 10 points more than we deserved by teams missing hatfulls of sitters. The difference now is that they're not.

Those points will probably save us, but quite clearly we aren't good enough.

We've been sh1te in some games admittedly, but good in some others, and mediocre in the majority.

All teams miss chances, it's the way of it in League 2 and we have missed plenty ourselves. The Efete one against Colchester a few days ago for instance. We missed good chances against Bradford. Northampton and especially Sutton at home from memory. Swindon too has just sprung to mind.

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

you never heard anything about ron jeremy complaining about not getting any rest

To be honest, if you asked him he'd say it was a really hard life 😏

Quoted from aldi_01

Is that like we were shite last season yet went from January to the end only losing 3 games and then winning all three playoff matches away, in extra time?

We’re not shite this year at all, it’s a just a sweeping generalisation. To say that would imply we’re flukey or didn’t deserve those wins which is absolute balderdash. Take Stockport away, excrement teams don’t go away and dominate. Plymouth at home, Crewe twice, Luton, Walsall, Colchester away and so on. You don’t win those games if you’re shite.

I think the word everyone is looking for is, inconsistent. That’s an issue but to say we’re shite is bullshit…

Tend to agree with you

If ( and I know it's a big IF ) we had held on to leads at Hartlepool and Harrogate and maybe not conceded so late on Tuesday, we'd have had another 7 points on the board

A potential 40 points at this stage of the season instead of the 33 we actually have would mean our analysis / critique of how the season has gone would be a lot less negative

I stand to be proven wrong but I think we have enough to get the 50 points or so that should guarantee our safety .... 19 games to go, at a point a game and we'll be in League 2 again next season with a suitably refreshed squad

UTM

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

To be honest, if you asked him he'd say it was a really hard life 😏

He certainly seemed to have lots of stamina!

I think this season was always going to catch up with us after such little time off in the summer.

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

Tend to agree with you

If ( and I know it's a big IF ) we had held on to leads at Hartlepool and Harrogate and maybe not conceded so late on Tuesday, we'd have had another 7 points on the board

A potential 40 points at this stage of the season instead of the 33 we actually have would mean our analysis / critique of how the season has gone would be a lot less negative

I stand to be proven wrong but I think we have enough to get the 50 points or so that should guarantee our safety .... 19 games to go, at a point a game and we'll be in League 2 again next season with a suitably refreshed squad

UTM

At last some balanced, pragmatic opinion to offset all of the angry overstatement.

Quoted from chaos33

At last some balanced, pragmatic opinion to offset all of the angry overstatement.

It’s hypothesis though. We haven’t got 40 points, we don’t have a physical presence in our forward options and we’re easy to play against. Our home form, which should create the most points is woeful and we’ve wasted what was a pretty good start to the season.

I still believe we’ll get to safety but it’s going to be harder than it should have been.

Yeah I understand that. You can’t deny facts, and that leads to reflection. Our home form and points return has been dreadful, and many of the performances haven’t been great to watch. We did have a good start to the season and failed to capitalise on that. We have lost games we really shouldn’t have against poor teams ((although every club in the league will have examples of that), we do seem to be lacking a visible and entertaining or winning method at times and we do have a need for an upgrade on some of our players but….

We are clearly not ‘sh1t’. That’s really unfair on our squad whom I think are all committed and passionate and give their best. We are not, presently, in a ‘relegation dogfight’.
It is too early to say whether we had an ‘appalling transfer window’ and we do not need a ‘massive squad overhaul’ in the summer. Yes some quality additions/replacements are needed, and we all know what positions we’re referring to, but we have a fair few good players for this level. Many results and performances in recent months have been below the required standard and we shouldn’t settle for that, but a load of blithering, entitled, negative, sometimes abusive overstatement isn’t helpful or credible.
There have been some excellent performances and results this season, in amongst the disappointments, but those people who’ve been telling us they’ve been supporting Town for 50/60/70 years and the football they’re watching this season is amongst the worst they’ve seen are talking absolute cobblers in my view. I’m a long term fan myself of about 40ish years and I’ve seen way, way, way worse seasons, teams and performances than anything i’ve seen this season, as disappointed as we all are.

We need to establish some composure and pragmatism, keep aiming high and strive to climb a few places, and take stock. And keep backing the boys.  

Quoted from chaos33

Yeah I understand that. You can’t deny facts, and that leads to reflection. Our home form and points return has been dreadful, and many of the performances haven’t been great to watch. We did have a good start to the season and failed to capitalise on that. We have lost games we really shouldn’t have against poor teams ((although every club in the league will have examples of that), we do seem to be lacking a visible and entertaining or winning method at times and we do have a need for an upgrade on some of our players but….

We are clearly not ‘sh1t’. That’s really unfair on our squad whom I think are all committed and passionate and give their best. We are not, presently, in a ‘relegation dogfight’.
It is too early to say whether we had an ‘appalling transfer window’ and we do not need a ‘massive squad overhaul’ in the summer. Yes some quality additions/replacements are needed, and we all know what positions we’re referring to, but we have a fair few good players for this level. Many results and performances in recent months have been below the required standard and we shouldn’t settle for that, but a load of blithering, entitled, negative, sometimes abusive overstatement isn’t helpful or credible.
There have been some excellent performances and results this season, in amongst the disappointments, but those people who’ve been telling us they’ve been supporting Town for 50/60/70 years and the football they’re watching this season is amongst the worst they’ve seen are talking absolute cobblers in my view. I’m a long term fan myself of about 40ish years and I’ve seen way, way, way worse seasons, teams and performances than anything i’ve seen this season, as disappointed as we all are.

We need to establish some composure and pragmatism, keep aiming high and strive to climb a few places, and take stock. And keep backing the boys.  

Fair dos. I’ll never stop backing the boys but we need to take stock of what’s happening in the windows and start working on a different strategy. If you look at the last two windows, we’ve signed very few players who have been regular starters at this level.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Fair dos. I’ll never stop backing the boys but we need to take stock of what’s happening in the windows and start working on a different strategy. If you look at the last two windows, we’ve signed very few players who have been regular starters at this level.

Genuine question.  Seeing as we can't compete financially and our location seems to be a problem too, what strategy would you suggest to help us sign a couple of top quality League 2 players?  For example, do we take a punt, hypothetically on a striker who has scored say 26 goals in a League two below us, and hope that playing with better players might enable him to do the same in League 2?

We don't need a striker who scores 20+ goals - there aren't many of them around and players scoring a hatful in non-league are generally down there for a reason, one or two exceptions aside. What we needed this season was a suitable backup for Taylor who could chip in with goals here and there but helps the team to score and win games.

It's no surprise that McAtee has been far off his best since returning from injury as he doesn't have somebody like Taylor to play off.

There are plenty of teams in this division who can outmuscle us and our squad doesn't appear to be capable of outplaying them when we're getting shoved from pillar to post and losing out in the aerial duels.

Given Hurst's otherwise pragmatic nature it's always a surprise that he doesn't really seem to consider this aspect of the game enough. Only really Green who is a signing with this sort of thing in mind and we might well have done a bit better against Colchester and Gillingham had he been fit to play.

Finding diamonds in the rough from leagues below is the dream for every league team, but in terms of forward players who tear up Step 2 and Step 3 of English Football and then go onto do the same in the EFL is incredibly few and far between. I'm not saying they aren't out there because they clearly are, but for every Vardy there is dozens of Montel Gibsons, Jackson Jr, Sisays etc left by the roadside.  

The gap between NLN/S and the best 3/4 teams in the NL and then League 2 is gigantic.  All 4 of the teams promoted to the NL this season are either in the relegation zone, or hovering just above it.

Quoted from 123614

Genuine question.  Seeing as we can't compete financially and our location seems to be a problem too, what strategy would you suggest to help us sign a couple of top quality League 2 players?  For example, do we take a punt, hypothetically on a striker who has scored say 26 goals in a League two below us, and hope that playing with better players might enable him to do the same in League 2?

Danny Elliott is now at his third club this season in the NL after scoring 31 for NLN side Boston last season. I said I didn't think League 2 was his level and it looks like NL is his ceiling.

Macaulay Langstaff on the other hand who Notts County signed from NLN champions Gateshead last summer...

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Danny Elliott is now at his third club this season in the NL after scoring 31 for NLN side Boston last season. I said I didn't think League 2 was his level and it looks like NL is his ceiling.

Macaulay Langstaff on the other hand who Notts County signed from NLN champions Gateshead last summer...

Has Elliot played in League Two?

Quoted from 123614

Has Elliot played in League Two?

6 games, no goals for Port Vale in 2019. Half of his 59 career goals in 157 appearances came last season in his 50 appearances for Boston.

Thank you, some progress then.

Quoted from Maringer

What we needed this season was a suitable backup for Taylor who could chip in with goals here and there but helps the team to score and win

Should have kept Mani And told him he would be first choice. Doesn't take a genius to know that Taylor wouldn't be able to play every game for the whole season.