Feb 1st and some Town fans are fretting about relegation. I'd fret about it too if it seemed likely, but consider the following:

The team has just achieved a draw at the side currently 4th in the Championship.
Without Andrew Dallas. Without a 6-footer leading the line.
Having previously beaten three League 1 teams  - including giving the top L1 team a sound walloping.
This is a strange CV for a side about to be relegated from L2, surely.

Where does the pessimism come from?
Well we've got rid of a bunch of loanees who most thought weren't good enough anyway, and failed to replace them with
Andrew Dallas (2 goals in 23 L2 games) or a target man (overlooking how well Orsi played at Luton).
I'm not trashing Dallas - he looks a very good prospect, and I'd like us to have signed him.
But if he doesn't want to come here that's the end of that one (and we need to accept it and move on).

I make no apologies for tending to view GTFC affairs through rosy glasses - that's my choice.
So being optimistic about the players we have brought in...

Everything I've seen and read about George Lloyd makes me think he could easily become a fans favourite due to his
workrate and combative nature. If he can start scoring goals we'll have a gem.

Tom Dickson-Peters has Scottish international caps at youth level - so there's certainly some ability there - and is described
as a 'clinical finisher' on his Norwich City webpage, who rate him highly.
Well that's what we need isn't it? Someone good at finishing off our (often) good approach play.
Doesn't need to be a 6-footer heading in crosses who scores our goals. Think Podge...
Might also mean more playing time for Hunt as the midfielder most likely to find TDP with a telling pass, which also makes
sense. We apparently paid 100K for Hunt, yet given him few opportunities to justify his price tag.

Josh Emmanuel is a super signing if his health issues are behind him...a real coup.
I can't believe PH hasn't done the due diligence on a player he knows well, so very hopeful.

Criticism of the board seems out of order to me. They've made it abundantly clear that all footballing matters are left to PH,
and have made funds available to him.
Perhaps the 17 years of justifiable criticism of the Fenty regime hasn't worked its way out of the system for a few.

I can understand why some are thinking PH is more 'El Corporal' than 'El General', but failing to satisfy football fans'
expectations is more likely due to the fans excessively high hopes rather than managerial weakness.
I don't think anyone doubts that Paul has worked his nuts off in the last month.

In summary: we'll be ok.

UTM

Edit: And if Scanz and/or Wearne can perform for us in the remainder of this season, things will look a fair bit different.

Personally I never had expectations that we would be fighting for or in contention for another promotion this season, so with that thought out of my head, I feel like doing enough to just linger mid table for this season is all they are doing with a view to a push on reforming and refining the squad a bit more ambitiously in the summer. Maybe they didn’t want to squander the cup money earned so far and see how far they could go before seeing what was in the wallet for the summer transfer window.

I do genuinely understand the perspective that ultimately what happens on the pitch is really all that matters, and that another raft of basically loanees doesn’t show ambition .. and for those showing up at BP week after week, they want to see some results… but honestly to me it says that whilst not cruising, we are doing ok but that I would expect to see a push in the summer to make next season a decent effort for a run to the top and go up.

Quoted from chicaneuk

Personally I never had expectations that we would be fighting for or in contention for another promotion this season, so with that thought out of my head, I feel like doing enough to just linger mid table for this season is all they are doing with a view to a push on reforming and refining the squad a bit more ambitiously in the summer. Maybe they didn’t want to squander the cup money earned so far and see how far they could go before seeing what was in the wallet for the summer transfer window.

I do genuinely understand the perspective that ultimately what happens on the pitch is really all that matters, and that another raft of basically loanees doesn’t show ambition .. and for those showing up at BP week after week, they want to see some results… but honestly to me it says that whilst not cruising, we are doing ok but that I would expect to see a push in the summer to make next season a decent effort for a run to the top and go up.

The commentary from the board is one of incremental improvements on a sustainable basis. That’s okay if you sustain the revenues. I’m not sure they will.

Dont think relegation is an issue this season, we're 100/1 but if we're going to occupy the bottom third of this division then it's inevitable it's going to happen again within the next few years.

I'm happy with the squad.
3 new forward players and a right back to give Efete some competition *who I rate by the way.
I'm assuming with us now having 4 'strikers' he may look to play 2 up top. I'd like to see us keep the 3 at the back, 532 or something along those lines.

This season is about stability and staying in the FL. I think we have enough to finish in the top 15. Then we need to look to improve further next season and aim for a top half finish.
I'm not expecting promotion or even a play off spot. We need to be realistic.

Not sure how anyone can make an assessment, one way or another, until we’ve seen them play. Each to their own but reckon people are really overthinking it.

What if the infrastructure of the club was in such a bad way that it's going to take more time and money than the owners first realised?
Could it be that 20 years of neglect is going to take longer to fix than first thought ?

Quoted from It Bites

What if the infrastructure of the club was in such a bad way that it's going to take more time and money than the owners first realised?
Could it be that 20 years of neglect is going to take longer to fix than first thought ?

You just won’t do it if your ambition is League Two stability. Gates will drop next season without substantially better recruitment in the summer.

Quoted from GrimRob

Dont think relegation is an issue this season, we're 100/1 but if we're going to occupy the bottom third of this division then it's inevitable it's going to happen again within the next few years.

I agree with you on both points  - but there was a lot of gloom and doom on the January Window Thread when
I called it a day and went to bed.

We may occupy a position in the bottom third of this division this year, though personally I doubt that - and I would share
your concern if that were to become the norm. However, I've already admitted to being a glass half full type, so I don't expect it.

Don't feel that the club - players and manager - are quite getting the respect for what they have already achieved this season in
the FA Cup run. Non-league to 5th round draw in about 8 months is going some imo.

*from the transfer window thread…

“Wake up and smell the coffee”, “dress it up as you like”, “disaster”, “cheap”, “bargain bucket”. All opinions without the benefit of seeing any of these lads play. Did I want Dallas, Vernam etc? Of course, but what do you expect the club to do? Kidnap them? If they don’t want to come, or their club won’t allow them to come then that’s that. Don’t blame the people currently in charge, blame the previous incumbents who have allowed this club’s reputation and facilities to fall below the likes of Barrow, Rochdale and Stevenage. Blame the council and the government for the lack of investment in N.E Lincs needed to make it a desirable place to live. Blame Grim for discovering this town in the location it is and not 50 miles west. The fact is that we are what we are now, and it’s going to take years, not a few transfer windows to repair and build this club again.

Quoted from It Bites

What if the infrastructure of the club was in such a bad way that it's going to take more time and money than the owners first realised?
Could it be that 20 years of neglect is going to take longer to fix than first thought ?

It's not just that though is it?..
Our reputation is through the floor, years of failure to invest properly into the club not only on the infrastructure but also the playing squad have seen 2 relegations out the league and our highest finish being 14th in league 2, now you tell me, which player's going to look at our recent history and think "wow, get me signed up"..

Massively underwhelmed with the revolving door of young loanees and for me they don't seem to work out. PH either doesn't play them or when they do play they're clearly not what's required  .We needed 3 or 4 quality additions and we look to possibly have got one? I hope these lads are the answer but in 3 months time we will be asked to fork out for a season ticket does the clubs ambition match that of the supporters ? Fenty would have been rightly slaughtered if he had overseen this window with everyone accusing him of penny pinching scotch egg please.........

I'm looking over my shoulder, and think that 100/1 will drop very quickly in the coming weeks.
The team has been reduced in numbers, and quality.

The optimism has been sucked out of me like a.... nevermind

I'm not saying we should be in with a shout for play-offs, but we 100% shouldn't be having any sort of conversation about relegation

I am underwhelmed and it would be churlish of me to say otherwise.

Players are the most important thing at any club so that is a concern but I don't think any of the improvements are happening quickly enough.

When they came in I thought they would really get to grips with our ills and soon develop a strategy to decide what to do with the stadium, the training ground and associated matters.

Lots of minor things are no better- the toilets, too many mistakes in communications, website not updated and no new visible investment from third parties which they intimated was there but they don't need?

How it looks will depend on your personality and I will freely admit I like things to move fast; when they came in I was overjoyed thinking at last we would be able to compete with lower league clubs and really start motoring. *

*The playoff success is so last year, and we must look forward.

What the OP failed to mention is the fact that we're in terrible form, winning 2 of our last 10 games, leaving us in the bottom 2 in the form table for the period.

So it was obvious we needed a few quality additions. Of course, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt, but another under-23 player with minimum football league experience is hardly inspiring. Lloyd could be good, but it seems a typical Hurst grafter type signing, yet we need goals and there's nothing in his record to suggest he'll bag many.

O'Neil is another Mcatee type player and Emmanuel could be very good if he gets fit. Time will tell but there's little to suggest any of the signings will help our struggles in the final 3rd.

Our squad is also incredibly unbalanced. We have 3 wingers, although Khan is out for a while and Scannell clearly isn't fit. Baring that in mind, maybe we'll play 5 at the back with wingbacks? Yet our only back up centre back in this scenario is Shaun Pearson who I love, but he shouldn't be getting near a league 2 team.

My final gripe is the club's failure to build. We hear so much about this season being about 'consolidstion'. Yet consolidating would mean making ourselves stronger which we've clearly failed to do this window. I wasn't expecting anything spectacular but a few permanent deals rather than loans would have been good. Virtually every other team in the league has managed it.

In football, you're always looking up or over your shoulder. We've spent too many years this century worried about what's bellow us and it's frustrating that we're slowly creeping into that position once again.

[quote=120933]What the OP failed to mention is the fact that we're in terrible form, winning 2 of our last 10 games, leaving us in the bottom 2 in the form table for the period.

League form. FA Cup form suggests we can expect an improvement in L2 fortunes. Luton are 4th in the Championship.

We can't be too bad....

Very disappointed to say the least.
So called smaller clubs are signing established players while we scratch about in the everything for 10p bargain bin and come up with nothing.
What annoys me most is the fact that we were on par with the likes of Bournemouth and Brighton 20-odd years ago and look at the difference now. Lack of ambition oh for a Ryan Reynolds!

??) ??) ??) ??) ??) ??) ??)

How many non league rough diamonds have we signed and paid transfer fees?

None!

Have we signed players from teams higher in the EFL than us?

Yes !

Did those teams see something in those players in order to sign them originally?

Yes !

Will Town fans actually give these new signings a fair crack of the whip, and let them get on the pitch and play, before slating them on here?

I bloody hope so !!

The Fishy itself could put potential signings off, with a hell of a lot of negativity from well over ambitious expectations after a miracle of 3 great play off games.

Swindon was a classic case of how to play in this division.

They did to us what we did to Dover last season. Not easy to watch, was it ?

Spend big !! Didn't work for Wrexham or Chesterfield, did it? Stockport arent exactly scorching up this league yet !!

If this season becomes just a survival season in lower mid table, then just be thankful that we have by some set of miracle games regained EFL status.

Season ticket sales will help to put in better fan facilities,  better player facilities, and slowly make Grimsby a better prospect for potential.new signings.

We have no wonder rich Saudi owners - we have 2 long established business people who have excellent local connections and have national esteem from their continued hard work.

Football Manager 23 is not the real world, mostbof us couldn't take the pressure of running this club, so get real, and have some patience, not mass panic !!

Chelsea finances are pie in the sky Monopoly money with no guarantee of success !

Quoted from 137

Feb 1st and some Town fans are fretting about relegation. I'd fret about it too if it seemed likely, but consider the following:

The team has just achieved a draw at the side currently 4th in the Championship.
Without Andrew Dallas. Without a 6-footer leading the line.
Having previously beaten three League 1 teams  - including giving the top L1 team a sound walloping.
This is a strange CV for a side about to be relegated from L2, surely.

Where does the pessimism come from?
Well we've got rid of a bunch of loanees who most thought weren't good enough anyway, and failed to replace them with
Andrew Dallas (2 goals in 23 L2 games) or a target man (overlooking how well Orsi played at Luton).
I'm not trashing Dallas - he looks a very good prospect, and I'd like us to have signed him.
But if he doesn't want to come here that's the end of that one (and we need to accept it and move on).

I make no apologies for tending to view GTFC affairs through rosy glasses - that's my choice.
So being optimistic about the players we have brought in...

Everything I've seen and read about George Lloyd makes me think he could easily become a fans favourite due to his
workrate and combative nature. If he can start scoring goals we'll have a gem.

Tom Dickson-Peters has Scottish international caps at youth level - so there's certainly some ability there - and is described
as a 'clinical finisher' on his Norwich City webpage, who rate him highly.
Well that's what we need isn't it? Someone good at finishing off our (often) good approach play.
Doesn't need to be a 6-footer heading in crosses who scores our goals. Think Podge...
Might also mean more playing time for Hunt as the midfielder most likely to find TDP with a telling pass, which also makes
sense. We apparently paid 100K for Hunt, yet given him few opportunities to justify his price tag.

Josh Emmanuel is a super signing if his health issues are behind him...a real coup.
I can't believe PH hasn't done the due diligence on a player he knows well, so very hopeful.

Criticism of the board seems out of order to me. They've made it abundantly clear that all footballing matters are left to PH,
and have made funds available to him.
Perhaps the 17 years of justifiable criticism of the Fenty regime hasn't worked its way out of the system for a few.

I can understand why some are thinking PH is more 'El Corporal' than 'El General', but failing to satisfy football fans'
expectations is more likely due to the fans excessively high hopes rather than managerial weakness.
I don't think anyone doubts that Paul has worked his nuts off in the last month.

In summary: we'll be ok.

UTM

Edit: And if Scanz and/or Wearne can perform for us in the remainder of this season, things will look a fair bit different.

Good synopsis but after 2 spells in the abyss you’d expect people to be nervous as the league form is poor and our strike force without Taylor is pretty much unproven.

That said I think we’ll get to the 50 point mark, though later than I’d anticipated.

Still trust in Hurst and all being well the Head of Recruitment has looked in depth at the incoming to as best he can assure they add value.

Need a point from the Crewe game at least I reckon.

Quoted from acko338

How many non league rough diamonds have we signed and paid transfer fees?

None!

Have we signed players from teams higher in the EFL than us?

Yes !

Did those teams see something in those players in order to sign them originally?

Yes !

Will Town fans actually give these new signings a fair crack of the whip, and let them get on the pitch and play, before slating them on here?

I bloody hope so !!

The Fishy itself could put potential signings off, with a hell of a lot of negativity from well over ambitious expectations after a miracle of 3 great play off games.

Swindon was a classic case of how to play in this division.

They did to us what we did to Dover last season. Not easy to watch, was it ?

Spend big !! Didn't work for Wrexham or Chesterfield, did it? Stockport arent exactly scorching up this league yet !!

If this season becomes just a survival season in lower mid table, then just be thankful that we have by some set of miracle games regained EFL status.

Season ticket sales will help to put in better fan facilities,  better player facilities, and slowly make Grimsby a better prospect for potential.new signings.

We have no wonder rich Saudi owners - we have 2 long established business people who have excellent local connections and have national esteem from their continued hard work.

Football Manager 23 is not the real world, mostbof us couldn't take the pressure of running this club, so get real, and have some patience, not mass panic !!

Chelsea finances are pie in the sky Monopoly money with no guarantee of success !

So are you happy with this window?

I will support them till the end, but c'mon, this has been a horror transfer window....

Quoted from acko338

If this season becomes just a survival season in lower mid table, then just be thankful that we have by some set of miracle games regained EFL status.

We have no wonder rich Saudi owners - we have 2 long established business people who have excellent local connections and have national esteem from their continued hard work.

Football Manager 23 is not the real world, mostbof us couldn't take the pressure of running this club, so get real, and have some patience, not mass panic !!

Chelsea finances are pie in the sky Monopoly money with no guarantee of success !

I sincerely hope the owners have more ambition than a 'survival season'.

And I honestly have no idea what your point is supposed to be around Saudis and Chelsea? Last time I heard, you didn't need Saudi money to sign a league 2 quality player on a permanent deal. Expecting us to do so is hardly unrealistic.

I will make my assessment on January in a few weeks. If we get sucked in to a relegation battle, serious questions need asking for sure.

I am neutral on the window. Not disappointed or untwisting my underwear this morning because Mullarkey went to Rochdale “over us”, or because Dallas opted to stay in the NL “over joining us” etc, because we don’t even know if we were in for those players. The optics of the window aren’t brilliant because again it does look like we have just taken scraps on loan at the last minute but in reality it is ok business to keep us plodding along where we are this season. The majority of players at this level move without fees so the majority of our work should be done in the summer.

Being realistic, we aren’t going down and we’re not going up. The doom-mongers looking over their shoulders at going down are the people getting carried away at the start of the season thinking we’d challenge at the top of the league based off our season ticket sales and a feel good factor. Mid-table was always going to be a more realistic aim this season, and a good achievement at that. Consolidate this year, build and improve again next.

Our form isn’t that bad is it? 3 wins and 3 defeats in 7. The draw coming away at Luton who could be in the Premier League later this year?

My main disappointment is that we didn’t add wide players but then maybe this indicates the shape of the team for the last half of the season. 532 plays to our strengths IMO whilst Taylor is out at least. We have added what sounds to be a very good wing-back and 2 centre forwards to hopefully play alongside McAtee and get the best from him.

Let’s just see, I don’t think it was great but I definitely don’t think it’s worth getting worked up about.

Whoever pulls on the shirt will always have my support - that will never change. We were playing catch up last September and it was a matter of getting some bodies in. Ultimately it hasn't worked with most of them being sent back and us lying 16th in the table looking down rather than up.
My frustration with the club is I didn't expect us to repeat that this January. This was a marker to show ambition. For whatever reasons it hasn't happen and I am sure questions will need to be answered in due course. I am mighty glad its over and looking forward to Crewe on Saturday.

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

The team has been reduced in numbers, and quality.

Curious what you're basing the reduction in quality on?

We've seen one game from O'Neill and nothing of the other 3.

We're making an assessment of the window having not seen any of these boys play (except O'Neil in the Swindon debacle)
The real issue here is that Fenty went and was replaced by successful, committed GTFC fans who've done a lot of good in a short space of time. That lifts expectations and it seems a lot of people have raised the bar for this window
When Jason said we'd improve every window I think a lot of people were expecting reasonable quality permanent signings, not more unproven kids. I'll judge at the end of February when we've hopefully seen a bit more of the new recruits.

532 really does seem to be the way we need to set up. 3 from 5 of Maher, Smith, Waterfall, Efete and Pearson. Emmanuel and Glennon/Amos WB

I'm looking forward to watching the new lads playing TBH.  I hope they are hungry and fearless.

Quoted from buckstown

We're making an assessment of the window having not seen any of these boys play (except O'Neil in the Swindon debacle)
The real issue here is that Fenty went and was replaced by successful, committed GTFC fans who've done a lot of good in a short space of time. That lifts expectations and it seems a lot of people have raised the bar for this window
When Jason said we'd improve every window I think a lot of people were expecting reasonable quality permanent signings, not more unproven kids. I'll judge at the end of February when we've hopefully seen a bit more of the new recruits.

Jason said the aim is to improve every window which is clearly sensible, as the vagaries of transfer windows (as we've seen)
means a non-billionaire can't promise improvement.

Aims are one thing ... but not every dart hits the bulls-eye. That's life.

Quoted from acko338

How many non league rough diamonds have we signed and paid transfer fees?

None!

Have we signed players from teams higher in the EFL than us?

Yes !

Did those teams see something in those players in order to sign them originally?

Yes !

Will Town fans actually give these new signings a fair crack of the whip, and let them get on the pitch and play, before slating them on here?

I bloody hope so !!

The Fishy itself could put potential signings off, with a hell of a lot of negativity from well over ambitious expectations after a miracle of 3 great play off games.

Swindon was a classic case of how to play in this division.

They did to us what we did to Dover last season. Not easy to watch, was it ?

Spend big !! Didn't work for Wrexham or Chesterfield, did it? Stockport arent exactly scorching up this league yet !!

If this season becomes just a survival season in lower mid table, then just be thankful that we have by some set of miracle games regained EFL status.

Season ticket sales will help to put in better fan facilities,  better player facilities, and slowly make Grimsby a better prospect for potential.new signings.

We have no wonder rich Saudi owners - we have 2 long established business people who have excellent local connections and have national esteem from their continued hard work.

Football Manager 23 is not the real world, mostbof us couldn't take the pressure of running this club, so get real, and have some patience, not mass panic !!

Chelsea finances are pie in the sky Monopoly money with no guarantee of success !

I can't believe the number of times I've read rubbish like this in various posts along the years.
Are some fans either so deluded or so arrogant that they honestly believe potential signings would trawl through hundreds of pages of a fan's forum before deciding to sign for a football club?

"I'm thinking of joining Grimsby mum"
"Ooh make sure you check the fan's forum"
"You're right mum, they're all arguing and toxic, they're much nicer with less expectations on the Barrow forum"

Players are young and they can only remember us as a struggling L2 side who have spent many years in non-league. The league table only confirms that view, plus our ground/training facilities.

Quoted from acko338

How many non league rough diamonds have we signed and paid transfer fees?

None!

Have we signed players from teams higher in the EFL than us?

Yes !

Did those teams see something in those players in order to sign them originally?

Yes !

Will Town fans actually give these new signings a fair crack of the whip, and let them get on the pitch and play, before slating them on here?

I bloody hope so !!

The Fishy itself could put potential signings off, with a hell of a lot of negativity from well over ambitious expectations after a miracle of 3 great play off games.

Swindon was a classic case of how to play in this division.

They did to us what we did to Dover last season. Not easy to watch, was it ?

Spend big !! Didn't work for Wrexham or Chesterfield, did it? Stockport arent exactly scorching up this league yet !!

If this season becomes just a survival season in lower mid table, then just be thankful that we have by some set of miracle games regained EFL status.

Season ticket sales will help to put in better fan facilities,  better player facilities, and slowly make Grimsby a better prospect for potential.new signings.

We have no wonder rich Saudi owners - we have 2 long established business people who have excellent local connections and have national esteem from their continued hard work.

Football Manager 23 is not the real world, mostbof us couldn't take the pressure of running this club, so get real, and have some patience, not mass panic !!

Chelsea finances are pie in the sky Monopoly money with no guarantee of success !

I don’t think it’s a case of spending big , it’s a case of paying the market rate

Quoted from acko338

Spend big !! Didn't work for Wrexham or Chesterfield, did it? Stockport arent exactly scorching up this league yet !!

Stockport (a club who consistently get their business done early in transfer windows) are in touch with the playoffs after a slow start. They've been one of, if not the best team in the division since about mid-October and I reckon they'll bag a playoff spot relatively comfortably.

It's disappointing in that it's clearly not what they wanted to do. I also think 'do your business early' sounds a hell of a lot easier than it probably is. If we really wanted Vernam, Mullarkey and Dallas and they were definitely interested but wanted to wait until the end of the window or their club said they'd release once they'd done their business then what do we do? Move on? Issue ultimatums? Truth is that good players will be in very strong positions. So you either pay well over the odds or sign players where there isn't much other interest or you hold on and try to persuade them you're their best option.

Would anyone rather have Colchester's January window but also their finances?

Quoted from GYinScuntland

I can't believe the number of times I've read rubbish like this in various posts along the years.
Are some fans either so deluded or so arrogant that they honestly believe potential signings would trawl through hundreds of pages of a fan's forum before deciding to sign for a football club?

"I'm thinking of joining Grimsby mum"
"Ooh make sure you check the fan's forum"
"You're right mum, they're all arguing and toxic, they're much nicer with less expectations on the Barrow forum"

Barrow doesn't have a forum, they don't even have the internet.  The man from BT Openreach was burned in a wicker man when he tried to connect them.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

It's disappointing in that it's clearly not what they wanted to do. I also think 'do your business early' sounds a hell of a lot easier than it probably is. If we really wanted Vernam, Mullarkey and Dallas and they were definitely interested but wanted to wait until the end of the window or their club said they'd release once they'd done their business then what do we do? Move on? Issue ultimatums? Truth is that good players will be in very strong positions. So you either pay well over the odds or sign players where there isn't much other interest or you hold on and try to persuade them you're their best option.

Would anyone rather have Colchester's January window but also their finances?

I don't think it is the Colchester model we want, obviously.

We managed to have a decent squad at the start of the season padded out with squad players, and what was needed was 2 quality signings for this level to improve us a lot.

Instead we appear to have done the opposite; let the squad become a bit sparse and filled it back up with loans who may find league 2 equally as difficult as our previous loanees.

The loans must have costs attached to them - we seem to get through quite a lot with relatively little reward but we are where we are and have to hope it works out.

Morning All!

Must admit I finished yesterday quite underwhelmed, and perhaps I still am to some degree. However slightly more optimistic this morning than I was. I don't know if it was the disappointment of thinking about either Dallas or Vernam, or the talk of permanent targets for fees earlier in the window.

Looking at the window, whilst it hasn't been great, I don't think we can make an argument it's been terrible. If you look at who we lost and what we brought in, I think you can see an improvement. I personally would have preferred a few more and a bit more proven experience.

If we look at Thomas Dickson-Peters. 46 goals in 84 appearances at Premier League 2  and u18 level. That is a hell of a return for any player and surely shows he has the ability to have a decent career. He obviously knows where the goal is and out of the many loanee strikers brought in to this division, his record has to be up there?

Emmanuel looks to be of an ability far above L2 if he has put his ill health issues behind him and Lloyd has a decent number of L2/L1 games under his belt at 22. The latter looks to be a real PH sort of player, works hard and presses hard but also has a decent touch and pass on him. Hopefully the sort of player we have seen perform well under Hurst after not ripping up trees elsewhere.

If we park the lack of permanent experienced players for a minute, even though its a legitimate concern and will rightly pose questions for the owners - which by the way doesn't mean there aren't equally legitimate answers to those questions. I struggle to see how O'Niell, TDP, Emmanuel and Lloyd can't be seen as an improvement on Pepple, Simmonds, Kiernan and Richardson.

Looking more generally, we lost quantity but not any real great quality. None of the out goings really troubled the first team squad, accept Kiernan. I would be more hopeful these lads will affect the first team. The team as a whole is decent, gets on the wrong side of results sometimes, but lets not pretend we aren't competitive in this league and should fancy our chances against anyone - a few mentioning relegation are a little over dramatic for me.

Looking around, granted only briefly, I cannot see an awful lot of business in this league with proven experience moving on a permeant deal that would improve us? Obviously one or two (mainly Gillingham ££££). That might give us an indication of how the market is.

So in summary it strikes me as failing to get main targets and deciding to fill until the summer, but fill with slightly better than we had. Slightly underwhelming. Obvious questions to be asked about our strategy and what happened, which needs to be and I'm sure will be answered.

I know it’ll never, ever, happen but honestly feel Hurst would get a bit more slack from fans if he was more open with who his targets were now it’s a stage where it doesn’t make a difference.

He’s very, very stubborn and you could see from his interviews all month and leading up to the window that he just doesn’t even want to engage with the process. Just play the game a bit man ffs.

If he came out now and says “oh we were in for x, y, z player but x wanted twice what we could afford, y wanted to live nearer his nan and z doesn’t like driving in straight lines for 45mins” then at least fans would feel slightly more informed rather than having to speculate.

He’s putting himself under a lot of unnecessary scrutiny when some other managers would be happy to deflect it and put the grief on agents, other clubs and players.

Quoted from ska face

I know it’ll never, ever, happen but honestly feel Hurst would get a bit more slack from fans if he was more open with who his targets were now it’s a stage where it doesn’t make a difference.

He’s very, very stubborn and you could see from his interviews all month and leading up to the window that he just doesn’t even want to engage with the process. Just play the game a bit man ffs.

If he came out now and says “oh we were in for x, y, z player but x wanted twice what we could afford, y wanted to live nearer his nan and z doesn’t like driving in straight lines for 45mins” then at least fans would feel slightly more informed rather than having to speculate.

He’s putting himself under a lot of unnecessary scrutiny when some other managers would be happy to deflect it and put the grief on agents, other clubs and players.

Agree with this completely. His character and how he is brings lots of positives - but from time to time he doesn't do himself favours in things like this.

Quoted from BraStrap

Players are young and they can only remember us as a struggling L2 side who have spent many years in non-league. The league table only confirms that view, plus our ground/training facilities.

Loanees are a possibility but that has it's pros and cons. You sometimes get really good young and up coming players from some of the clubs in the premiership and even championship who aren't afraid to ply their trade lower down the football pyramid and get valuable experience in the process.

Quoted from 137

Feb 1st and some Town fans are fretting about relegation. I'd fret about it too if it seemed likely, but consider the following:

The team has just achieved a draw at the side currently 4th in the Championship.
Without Andrew Dallas. Without a 6-footer leading the line.
Having previously beaten three League 1 teams  - including giving the top L1 team a sound walloping.
This is a strange CV for a side about to be relegated from L2, surely.

Where does the pessimism come from?
Well we've got rid of a bunch of loanees who most thought weren't good enough anyway, and failed to replace them with
Andrew Dallas (2 goals in 23 L2 games) or a target man (overlooking how well Orsi played at Luton).
I'm not trashing Dallas - he looks a very good prospect, and I'd like us to have signed him.
But if he doesn't want to come here that's the end of that one (and we need to accept it and move on).

I make no apologies for tending to view GTFC affairs through rosy glasses - that's my choice.
So being optimistic about the players we have brought in...

Everything I've seen and read about George Lloyd makes me think he could easily become a fans favourite due to his
workrate and combative nature. If he can start scoring goals we'll have a gem.

Tom Dickson-Peters has Scottish international caps at youth level - so there's certainly some ability there - and is described
as a 'clinical finisher' on his Norwich City webpage, who rate him highly.
Well that's what we need isn't it? Someone good at finishing off our (often) good approach play.
Doesn't need to be a 6-footer heading in crosses who scores our goals. Think Podge...
Might also mean more playing time for Hunt as the midfielder most likely to find TDP with a telling pass, which also makes
sense. We apparently paid 100K for Hunt, yet given him few opportunities to justify his price tag.

Josh Emmanuel is a super signing if his health issues are behind him...a real coup.
I can't believe PH hasn't done the due diligence on a player he knows well, so very hopeful.

Criticism of the board seems out of order to me. They've made it abundantly clear that all footballing matters are left to PH,
and have made funds available to him.
Perhaps the 17 years of justifiable criticism of the Fenty regime hasn't worked its way out of the system for a few.

I can understand why some are thinking PH is more 'El Corporal' than 'El General', but failing to satisfy football fans'
expectations is more likely due to the fans excessively high hopes rather than managerial weakness.
I don't think anyone doubts that Paul has worked his nuts off in the last month.

In summary: we'll be ok.

UTM

Edit: And if Scanz and/or Wearne can perform for us in the remainder of this season, things will look a fair bit different.

Excellent post, fully agree with all comments.

not happy with our business at all, but dont think for a second we'll be dragged into a scrap at the bottom

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Massively underwhelmed with the revolving door of young loanees and for me they don't seem to work out. PH either doesn't play them or when they do play they're clearly not what's required  .We needed 3 or 4 quality additions and we look to possibly have got one? I hope these lads are the answer but in 3 months time we will be asked to fork out for a season ticket does the clubs ambition match that of the supporters ? Fenty would have been rightly slaughtered if he had overseen this window with everyone accusing him of penny pinching scotch egg please.........

Do you think that this post will go down well with our new recruits?  I would think that at some time they will get to read the Forum posts, and this post, and many others like it will not do their confidence any good.

Quoted from 123614

Do you think that this post will go down well with our new recruits?  I would think that at some time they will get to read the Forum posts, and this post, and many others like it will not do their confidence any good.

Spot on . Some players are confidence players and need the right sort of encouragement and constructive criticism to get the best out of them.

Very disappointed to say the least.
So called smaller clubs are signing established players while we scratch about in the 10p bargain bin and come up with nothing.
What annoys me most is the fact that we were on par with the likes of Bournemouth and Brighton 20-odd years ago and look at the difference now. Lack of ambition oh for a Ryan Reynolds!

Wow, good job in making our new players welcome.

Quoted from GYinScuntland

I can't believe the number of times I've read rubbish like this in various posts along the years.
Are some fans either so deluded or so arrogant that they honestly believe potential signings would trawl through hundreds of pages of a fan's forum before deciding to sign for a football club?

"I'm thinking of joining Grimsby mum"
"Ooh make sure you check the fan's forum"
"You're right mum, they're all arguing and toxic, they're much nicer with less expectations on the Barrow forum"

I can't believe you think players and staff DON'T read they Fishy.  Over the past months it's fairly clear that even PH has a little peek every now and again, and for sure if I was a pro footballer I would be having a look too!

We have not seen the new lads play but repeating a comment I made on another thread how many of these new signings do we expect to be regular starters? And how many would be starters when and if Taylor and Khan are fit?

The major disappointment for me is that, subject to seeing the guys play, only Emmanuel appears to be an improvement on what we currently have and there are obviously question marks about his match fitness.

Thought we needed improvement in midfield, out wide and striker and I’m not convinced that any of those positions have been improved upon but time will tell.

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

I'm looking over my shoulder, and think that 100/1 will drop very quickly in the coming weeks.
The team has been reduced in numbers, and quality.

The optimism has been sucked out of me like a.... nevermind

I'm not saying we should be in with a shout for play-offs, but we 100% shouldn't be having any sort of conversation about relegation

Please explain how you can know with any certainty that quality has dropped. O'Neill looked a better bet as a striker than Simmonds or Pebble. Emmanuel could be an absolute baller if he stays fit. Lloyd, although he may not have better quality than the others, seems better equipped given his description of getting more from McAtee in particular. And TSB is a 'clinical finisher'.

Quoted from 123614

I can't believe you think players and staff DON'T read they Fishy.  Over the past months it's fairly clear that even PH has a little peek every now and again, and for sure if I was a pro footballer I would be having a look too!

Even if they do football forums are the same whichever team you follow, lose matches and they are toxic win matches everyone is happy. Goes with the territory which every player will know.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

We have not seen the new lads play but repeating a comment I made on another thread how many of these new signings do we expect to be regular starters? And how many would be starters when and if Taylor and Khan are fit?

The major disappointment for me is that, subject to seeing the guys play, only Emmanuel appears to be an improvement on what we currently have and there are obviously question marks about his match fitness.

Thought we needed improvement in midfield, out wide and striker and I’m not convinced that any of those positions have been improved upon but time will tell.

Well the guy from Norwich scored 46 goals from 80 odd appearances, in Prem 2, which I would guess is excellent at that level.

Well, I couldn’t post towards the latter end of last night as I apparently hit the Fishy’s arbitrary 50 post per day limit. Who knew? Anyway, I took that as the barman telling me I’d had enough to drink, and went to bed to sleep on matters.

A somewhat sleepless night as it happens, punctuated by psychedelic nightmares starring the ghosts of Andrew Dallas, Toby Mullarkey and Charles Vernam. They left me a message for Hursty, saying he needs to change his ways. A brief vision of poor Tiny Tom Hopper left me feeling very bleak.

A fair bit of emotion on display last night and this morning, it’s fair to say. Some foaming at the mouth at the short-term and seemingly austere nature of our January business, others urging for calm and to see the positives. Honestly, I can see both perspectives.

Of course there are positives. We are, somehow, back in the football league. Solihull might have Dallas, but they don’t have EFL status and probably won’t next season either. We’re still in the FA Cup. And yes, January isn’t really the best time to be making statement signings (though others around us arguably have).

Was yesterday the end of the world? Of course not. But “underwhelming” is a fair description. We are in the best financial position we have been in for nigh on 20 years, with surely one of the healthier organic incomes in the division. This, ultimately, is largely down to the thousands of people who forked out for season tickets in the summer, all in the face of a cost of living crisis. There is an understandable sense of investment.

What happened in May and June may well turn out to be a once in a lifetime event. An utterly incredible sequence of events that we would have to come down from eventually, but for me the squad we have right now simply does not reflect our current financial status. The number 9 shirt, one we so obviously needed to fill, remains vacant. And with that, we reduce the value of what is left of McAtee’s loan.

We have just 9 senior players contracted beyond the summer. The opportunity to make the closed season a period of smooth transition appears to have been lost.

I have no doubt that all concerned have tried incredibly hard, and the signings we have made may well go on to make valuable contributions. Emmanuel in particular could turn out to be a very clever signing (assuming we have an option on his contract), though little is known as to what kind of condition he is in.

All that said, from the outside looking in, we don’t look to have managed the window well. We’ve missed out on key targets, and that happens, but we also appear to have missed out on our third and fourth choices too. We have failed to address the most obvious gap in the squad, and we have let more players leave than have arrived which seems counter-intuitive given the fixture pileup that lays ahead.

All in all, there is little value in spin. I suspect those at the club are just as disappointed with the way things have turned out. Whether that’s anyone’s fault or just an unfortunate symptom of circumstance, questions need to be asked and issues addressed before we get to the summer.

I don’t write that with any anger whatsoever, but rather objective, sober reflection. The club will not evolve if we continue to recruit in this way, and that’s an opportunity we cannot afford to lose.

Onwards and upwards.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Even if they do football forums are the same whichever team you follow, lose matches and they are toxic win matches everyone is happy. Goes with the territory which every player will know.

Agree but there are some club sides up and down the country that have better atmosphere on match days than others .  Certain players feed of that energy more than others and tend to play better overall.

Quoted from Mariner93er

What the OP failed to mention is the fact that we're in terrible form, winning 2 of our last 10 games, leaving us in the bottom 2 in the form table for the period.

So it was obvious we needed a few quality additions. Of course, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt, but another under-23 player with minimum football league experience is hardly inspiring. Lloyd could be good, but it seems a typical Hurst grafter type signing, yet we need goals and there's nothing in his record to suggest he'll bag many.

O'Neil is another Mcatee type player and Emmanuel could be very good if he gets fit. Time will tell but there's little to suggest any of the signings will help our struggles in the final 3rd.

Our squad is also incredibly unbalanced. We have 3 wingers, although Khan is out for a while and Scannell clearly isn't fit. Baring that in mind, maybe we'll play 5 at the back with wingbacks? Yet our only back up centre back in this scenario is Shaun Pearson who I love, but he shouldn't be getting near a league 2 team.

My final gripe is the club's failure to build. We hear so much about this season being about 'consolidstion'. Yet consolidating would mean making ourselves stronger which we've clearly failed to do this window. I wasn't expecting anything spectacular but a few permanent deals rather than loans would have been good. Virtually every other team in the league has managed it.

In football, you're always looking up or over your shoulder. We've spent too many years this century worried about what's bellow us and it's frustrating that we're slowly creeping into that position once again.

I agree with all of this, any momentum we had going into this season quickly fizzled out and we stagnated, actually our form dipped and hasnt recovered.
We had a once in a generation chance to surge onwards, the feel good factor, record seadon ticket sales, all the talk has been wasted and we have once again become mediocre and uninspiring.

Quoted from Azimuth

I agree with all of this, any momentum we had going into this season quickly fizzled out and we stagnated, actually our form dipped and hasnt recovered.
We had a once in a generation chance to surge onwards, the feel good factor, record season ticket sales, all the talk has been wasted and we have once again become mediocre and uninspiring.

Quoted from acko338

How many non league rough diamonds have we signed and paid transfer fees?

None!

Have we signed players from teams higher in the EFL than us?

Yes !

Did those teams see something in those players in order to sign them originally?

Yes !

Will Town fans actually give these new signings a fair crack of the whip, and let them get on the pitch and play, before slating them on here?

I bloody hope so !!

The Fishy itself could put potential signings off, with a hell of a lot of negativity from well over ambitious expectations after a miracle of 3 great play off games.

Swindon was a classic case of how to play in this division.

They did to us what we did to Dover last season. Not easy to watch, was it ?

Spend big !! Didn't work for Wrexham or Chesterfield, did it? Stockport arent exactly scorching up this league yet !!

If this season becomes just a survival season in lower mid table, then just be thankful that we have by some set of miracle games regained EFL status.

Season ticket sales will help to put in better fan facilities,  better player facilities, and slowly make Grimsby a better prospect for potential.new signings.

We have no wonder rich Saudi owners - we have 2 long established business people who have excellent local connections and have national esteem from their continued hard work.

Football Manager 23 is not the real world, mostbof us couldn't take the pressure of running this club, so get real, and have some patience, not mass panic !!

Chelsea finances are pie in the sky Monopoly money with no guarantee of success !

Erm ......how many young loan players from further up the pyramid has Paul Hurst signed to date and how many actually were worth their time being here.

Apart from Smith most have been binned off without hardly troubling the person who produces the team sheets.

That lad from West Brom I can't remember his name started to make an impression, scored a couple of goals got us a penalty or two and just when it looked like he was making a real difference he was left out of the side never to be seen again.

Quoted from Poojah

Well, I couldn’t post towards the latter end of last night as I apparently hit the Fishy’s arbitrary 50 post per day limit. Who knew? Anyway, I took that as the barman telling me I’d had enough to drink, and went to bed to sleep on matters.

A somewhat sleepless night as it happens, punctuated by psychedelic nightmares starring the ghosts of Andrew Dallas, Toby Mullarkey and Charles Vernam. They left me a message for Hursty, saying he needs to change his ways. A brief vision of poor Tiny Tom Hopper left me feeling very bleak.

A fair bit of emotion on display last night and this morning, it’s fair to say. Some foaming at the mouth at the short-term and seemingly austere nature of our January business, others urging for calm and to see the positives. Honestly, I can see both perspectives.

Of course there are positives. We are, somehow, back in the football league. Solihull might have Dallas, but they don’t have EFL status and probably won’t next season either. We’re still in the FA Cup. And yes, January isn’t really the best time to be making statement signings (though others around us arguably have).

Was yesterday the end of the world? Of course not. But “underwhelming” is a fair description. We are in the best financial position we have been in for nigh on 20 years, with surely one of the healthier organic incomes in the division. This, ultimately, is largely down to the thousands of people who forked out for season tickets in the summer, all in the face of a cost of living crisis. There is an understandable sense of investment.

What happened in May and June may well turn out to be a once in a lifetime event. An utterly incredible sequence of events that we would have to come down from eventually, but for me the squad we have right now simply does not reflect our current financial status. The number 9 shirt, one we so obviously needed to fill, remains vacant. And with that, we reduce the value of what is left of McAtee’s loan.

We have just 9 senior players contracted beyond the summer. The opportunity to make the closed season a period of smooth transition appears to have been lost.

I have no doubt that all concerned have tried incredibly hard, and the signings we have made may well go on to make valuable contributions. Emmanuel in particular could turn out to be a very clever signing (assuming we have an option on his contract), though little is known as to what kind of condition he is in.

All that said, from the outside looking in, we don’t look to have managed the window well. We’ve missed out on key targets, and that happens, but we also appear to have missed out on our third and fourth choices too. We have failed to address the most obvious gap in the squad, and we have let more players leave than have arrived which seems counter-intuitive given the fixture pileup that lays ahead.

All in all, there is little value in spin. I suspect those at the club are just as disappointed with the way things have turned out. Whether that’s anyone’s fault or just an unfortunate symptom of circumstance, questions need to be asked and issues addressed before we get to the summer.

I don’t write that with any anger whatsoever, but rather objective, sober reflection. The club will not evolve if we continue to recruit in this way, and that’s an opportunity we cannot afford to lose.

Onwards and upwards.

Brilliantly put and that sums up the mood of some of us perfectly.

I do also have to admit that players today will only have seen us struggle for years and see us as a bang average league 2 and or National league side which hurts but is obviously true so recruitment can't be easy, but players want to be enthused just like the rest of us, and money is obviously the biggest factor and a feeling we are going places.

Small incremental improvements might take years to help us compete so I think the owners and manager need to set their sights a bit higher and show some real intent in all things affecting our future. We were even positive going into the National league last season with bigger gates and ecstatic when we went up, so now is the time to take advantage and show that we can be a force in league 2.

Quoted from Mikey_345

Morning All!

Must admit I finished yesterday quite underwhelmed, and perhaps I still am to some degree. However slightly more optimistic this morning than I was. I don't know if it was the disappointment of thinking about either Dallas or Vernam, or the talk of permanent targets for fees earlier in the window.

Looking at the window, whilst it hasn't been great, I don't think we can make an argument it's been terrible. If you look at who we lost and what we brought in, I think you can see an improvement. I personally would have preferred a few more and a bit more proven experience.

If we look at Thomas Dickson-Peters. 46 goals in 84 appearances at Premier League 2  and u18 level. That is a hell of a return for any player and surely shows he has the ability to have a decent career. He obviously knows where the goal is and out of the many loanee strikers brought in to this division, his record has to be up there?

Emmanuel looks to be of an ability far above L2 if he has put his ill health issues behind him and Lloyd has a decent number of L2/L1 games under his belt at 22. The latter looks to be a real PH sort of player, works hard and presses hard but also has a decent touch and pass on him. Hopefully the sort of player we have seen perform well under Hurst after not ripping up trees elsewhere.

If we park the lack of permanent experienced players for a minute, even though its a legitimate concern and will rightly pose questions for the owners - which by the way doesn't mean there aren't equally legitimate answers to those questions. I struggle to see how O'Niell, TDP, Emmanuel and Lloyd can't be seen as an improvement on Pepple, Simmonds, Kiernan and Richardson.

Looking more generally, we lost quantity but not any real great quality. None of the out goings really troubled the first team squad, accept Kiernan. I would be more hopeful these lads will affect the first team. The team as a whole is decent, gets on the wrong side of results sometimes, but lets not pretend we aren't competitive in this league and should fancy our chances against anyone - a few mentioning relegation are a little over dramatic for me.

Looking around, granted only briefly, I cannot see an awful lot of business in this league with proven experience moving on a permeant deal that would improve us? Obviously one or two (mainly Gillingham ££££). That might give us an indication of how the market is.

So in summary it strikes me as failing to get main targets and deciding to fill until the summer, but fill with slightly better than we had. Slightly underwhelming. Obvious questions to be asked about our strategy and what happened, which needs to be and I'm sure will be answered.

None of which we were in for.

Final thoughts from me on some of the points raised:

• Only a few players under contract beyond the summer/facing a summer rebuild
  
  We are able to offer renewed contracts to players and I'm sure we will.  We've largely underperformed against the expectations many of us had for this season, perhaps a summer shake up might not be the worst thing? Perhaps Hurst was a bit too loyal in the summer.
  
  
• More going out than coming in
  
  Simmonds, Pepple and Richardson were all used very sparingly.
  JMD was frozen out.
  Kiernan the only one who was consistently involved.
  
  Other than the number of names listed on the back of the programme, I don't think we've weakened ourselves in terms of numbers. It doesn't matter how many players you have, it matter surely how many you have that you'll use?
  
  
• No experience brought in, especially up top.
  
  This one I get. It's a failing. Orsi, McAtee, O'Neill, Lloyd, Dickson-Peters... All lacking significant experience at this level, or at all.  You have to go further back through the field to Khan and Scannell for experience. Both of whom are injured.   Sure, McAtee and Lloyd have got some, but not loads.
  
  To be honest there's only really Clifton, Holohan, Morris to an extent and Waterfall with significant experience at this level
  
  That's the area of concern for me. I'm not doom and gloom about the window and I actually find myself looking forward to seeing the new signings, got a gut feeling that Lloyd is going to be someone that just clicks here.   But that lack of know-how does slightly concern me.
  

The dealings are what they are. We've got in who we've got in. We clearly missed out on a few and I think there's gotta be some questions as to why. I'm not talking root and branch but I'd like our position in the summer to be one where we've identified realistic targets who will come here, not just a lift of players we would like.

Quoted from Mikey_345

Morning All!

Must admit I finished yesterday quite underwhelmed, and perhaps I still am to some degree. However slightly more optimistic this morning than I was. I don't know if it was the disappointment of thinking about either Dallas or Vernam, or the talk of permanent targets for fees earlier in the window.

.....

This post in spades. The people who are most disappointed are those who have worked themselves up into a frenzy over twitter rumours and who may or may not have booked themselves a room in the sodding Oaklands. People talking about needing to sign 3/4 permanent deals live in cuckoo land. You don't build in January, you add if you can. The best players come at a premium and usually have many options. That's fairly straight forward I'd say.

I see no reason we can't at least maintain the gap from the bottom two and if we do I'll be happy with that. I make no apologies for that. Maybe we'll even snaffle ourselves a 5th round FA Cup tie. We've come a long way in 17 months. There really is little reason for all this gloom pleddling

Its like "the day after tomorrow" on here,!...

What happened to getting behind the team, all town aren't we, support through thick n thin?..
Yes, we all wanted that star striker, the number 9, our very own Haaland but guess what, it didn't happen and no matter how much cryarsing you do ain't gonna change it!..
I'm slightly more pragmatic about the window, I see what that team did on Saturday without these 4 new signings.
I've said on twitter and on here, until we cement our position as a league club, flirting with promotion then the 'better' players will give us a wide birth, think its called "living in the moment and not the past".
And for what its worth, I honestly believe the 3 lads we've signed on loan will prove to better that those we sent back.
Anyway I'm glad its over so we can now focus back on the football and I'll be interested to see the reactions of the naysayers should the lads start banging in goals..could obviously go the other way and they completely flop but, before judge, let's see what they are like playing in the black n white of GTFC.

Quoted from 123614

None of which we were in for.

We were in for Vernam.. that’s a fact mate.

Not according to others.

Quoted from 123614

Not according to others.

Not gunna get into a debate on it mate. We tried in the summer, we tried all window until late last night. Lincoln wouldn’t let him go unless they had a replacement - they failed with a late bid on for a winger from Pompey.

I’m not basing it on a hunch..

Yep. All but done and waiting on Lincoln approving it.

Think they got jittery with their own strengthening not going quite to plan. But I do wonder if there was perhaps a bit of brinkmanship going on and both parties refused to blink.

We needed the deal to happen more than Lincoln did, at that stage of the window you perhaps have to accept you'll end up paying a premium.

Quoted from ska face

I know it’ll never, ever, happen but honestly feel Hurst would get a bit more slack from fans if he was more open with who his targets were now it’s a stage where it doesn’t make a difference.

He’s very, very stubborn and you could see from his interviews all month and leading up to the window that he just doesn’t even want to engage with the process. Just play the game a bit man ffs.

If he came out now and says “oh we were in for x, y, z player but x wanted twice what we could afford, y wanted to live nearer his nan and z doesn’t like driving in straight lines for 45mins” then at least fans would feel slightly more informed rather than having to speculate.

He’s putting himself under a lot of unnecessary scrutiny when some other managers would be happy to deflect it and put the grief on agents, other clubs and players.

I agree with you. It would be nice to know who we wanted which would indicate how progressive the club wants to be. It would also ease the thoughts of many on here.

In naming the targets it would not lessen or improve future summer negotiations as the targets may sustain injuries, or their reasons for not coming may never change. As far as the summer signing window is concerned it doesn't matter if we will have only 9 under contract. What does matter are the next 22 games and getting as many points as possible, plus an FA Cup tie reply to win.

Quoted from 123614

None of which we were in for.

If we wasn't in for Dallas and/or Vernam, then why not?
I think every Town fan would identify them as players who would improve our squad and I think that everyone would also believe they would realistic targets.

I certainly would be one to question that if Vernam and Dallas where not high up in our shortlist, then the people who are actually collating this list, are not doing a very good job.

My take on this is the following:
1.if the new forward Lloyd is good we buy him at the end of the season my gut feeling is that he will be good
2. Emmanuel from Hull sounds a good player and again we should sign at the end of the season.I would be very disappointed if we donot have an option as this would be very short sighted
3. it is clear we got knocked back a lot. Stockwood & Pettit, are smart Enough, we have to address this
4 these players come with a lot less fanfare than others would have done, and I suspect that will make it much easier for them to settle in.
Our antiquated set up is holding us back , this is the big picture and will take some fixing.
The next few games are not too easy and it is far easier to get points when mid table than at the bottom and so we need a couple of dour 1:0 wins. Hurst is good at this, we have no chance of playoffs this season as the squad clearly lacks quality but we can learn from this for next season. I am ok with the Jan business but this would not be acceptable in the summer utm

Kyle Lafferty has had his contract terminated by Killie . I'd personally drive him to Grimsby

He’s 35

Quoted from chaos33

He’s 35

he's a bloody effective player if you can motivate him.

nb fwiw was told by a number of separate sources that us n vernham was a 'love in' - both wanted it to happen, preferrably perm , but  a loan wasn't the end of the world.
Just a thought - in the past 9 months we've nicked their goalkeeping coach and recruitment lad. Was there a bit of 'payback' involved in their reluctance to play ball?

The four new recruits settle in well, the boost from hopefully getting into the fifth round and who’s to say we can’t make a playoff position? It’s still all to play for….UTM!

Quoted from forza ivano

he's a bloody effective player if you can motivate him.

nb fwiw was told by a number of separate sources that us n vernham was a 'love in' - both wanted it to happen, preferrably perm , but  a loan wasn't the end of the world.
Just a thought - in the past 9 months we've nicked their goalkeeping coach and recruitment lad. Was there a bit of 'payback' involved in their reluctance to play ball?

Cant understand this love in with Vernam. He’s 26 and had more clubs than Tiger Woods and only had half a dozen decent games in his spell with us. Totally overrated in my opinion .

Quoted from lukeo

I'm happy with the squad.
3 new forward players and a right back to give Efete some competition *who I rate by the way.
I'm assuming with us now having 4 'strikers' he may look to play 2 up top. I'd like to see us keep the 3 at the back, 532 or something along those lines.

This season is about stability and staying in the FL. I think we have enough to finish in the top 15. Then we need to look to improve further next season and aim for a top half finish.
I'm not expecting promotion or even a play off spot. We need to be realistic.

Do you use the term striker loosely .As none of them have actually scored many goals except orsi in the NL 1 season

We just drew 2 2 away to a team 2 divisions above us flirting with promotion. That was without 1 of our best players on his day (McAtee) and the 3 new signings. They may only play bit parts, they may play alot and turn some of these loses to draws or wins. This season is about consolidation. Yet we've managed to do OK in that tin pot trophy balderdash, we're still in the fa Cup and we're mid table(ish) in league 2 with a couple of games in hand.

Quoted from Norseman

Do you use the term striker loosely .As none of them have actually scored many goals except orsi in the NL 1 season

In my life time watching town, and to be fair, this likely extends to most clubs, I can count 5 May be 6 goalscorers…and in truth, as with last year, our goals seem to come from all over the park.

We scored 2 at Luton, and in truth, could’ve had a third. We have scored goals and whilst it would be nice to have that 15 goal a season player, sometimes you don’t always get what you want…

Quoted from Norseman

Do you use the term striker loosely .As none of them have actually scored many goals except orsi in the NL 1 season

That’s just churlish though isn’t it.

Tony Rees, Neil Woods, Steve Livingstone - all good players who never scored many for us at all.

Kevin Donovan wasn't a striker, but his goals got us promoted one season. Groves managed more in a season than any of the three strikers mentioned.

It doesn't matter who scores the goals if you're doing well...

If Lloyd/Orsi/TDP/Taylor play well and we win, I really don't care if they score or not.

Quoted from aldi_01

In my life time watching town, and to be fair, this likely extends to most clubs, I can count 5 May be 6 goalscorers…and in truth, as with last year, our goals seem to come from all over the park.

We scored 2 at Luton, and in truth, could’ve had a third. We have scored goals and whilst it would be nice to have that 15 goal a season player, sometimes you don’t always get what you want…

Think our time watching Town pretty similar?

Drinkell Lund Wilkinson Hobson Mendonca Woods Boulding Reddy Connell Hearn Amond Bogle

Some more effective than others and you could argue some strikers rather than goalscorer. All gave me a lot of pleasure scoring goals and such a shame Reddy and Hearn  got injured.

Weird feeling of the club seeming in a better place than it was, but getting similar results and having most of the same operational problems as the old regime..

This transfer window has unnerved me a bit.. same with the ongoing ticketing issues..

Quoted from chaos33

He’s 35

Thiago Silva - 38
Cristiano Ronaldo - 37
Ashley Young 37
James Milner - 36
Luca Modric - 37
Lionel Messi - 35
Karin Benzema - 35
Danilo - 37
Jamie Vardy - 36
Fernandinho - 39
Zlatan Ibrahimović - 41

To name just a few!  There are many more.

Shane Long - 35
Scott Dann - 35
Kyle McFadzean - 35
Bartosz Bialkowski - 35
George Friend - 35
Albert Adomah - 35
Phil Jagielka - 40
Richard Wood - 37
Billy Sharp - 36
Cameron Jerome - 36
Lee Peltier - 36
Shane Long - 35

I'm just going to lie down and cry that Albert Adomah is 35!

Quoted from Maringer

Tony Rees, Neil Woods, Steve Livingstone - all good players who never scored many for us at all.

Kevin Donovan wasn't a striker, but his goals got us promoted one season. Groves managed more in a season than any of the three strikers mentioned.

It doesn't matter who scores the goals if you're doing well...

If Lloyd/Orsi/TDP/Taylor play well and we win, I really don't care if they score or not.

Trevor Whymark scored 16 goals in 93 games, he was a really good player too. What's that 1 in 4?

One in six! Whymark a bit before my time, I'm afraid.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Trevor Whymark scored 16 goals in 93 games, he was a really good player too. What's that 1 in 4?

And his contribution apart of goalscoring was outstanding - assists weren’t a thing then but he would have had loads - probably the best all round footballer to play for Town in the last 50 years - edging Drinks, Joe and Clive…

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

And his contribution apart of goalscoring was outstanding - assists weren’t a thing then but he would have had loads - probably the best all round footballer to play for Town in the last 50 years - edging Drinks, Joe and Clive…

If memory serves his first game was against Chelsea. He scored one and made one in a 2-0 win. He was obviously a class act. Well, it may not have been his first game, but it was the first time I saw him play.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

And his contribution apart of goalscoring was outstanding - assists weren’t a thing then but he would have had loads - probably the best all round footballer to play for Town in the last 50 years - edging Drinks, Joe and Clive…

Yes I would say he is the best player I have ever seen in a Town shirt since I started going in 1963.

That is a lot of players but he was an incredible player, just oozed class that came completely naturally and he never seemed to break sweat although he did so much to create goals besides scoring them.

He was coming to the end of his career then so no wonder Ipswich fans adore him having seen him in his pomp.

Quoted from 123614

Cristiano Ronaldo - 37

Zlatan Ibrahimović - 41

To name just a few!  There are many more.

Listening to an interview with a current pro  footballer just the other night and he was talking about the need for discipline eg training right and living healthy . Makes sense. The body is a machine and the better you look after it chances are the longer it lasts.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Yes I would say he is the best player I have ever seen in a Town shirt since I started going in 1963.

That is a lot of players but he was an incredible player, just oozed class that came completely naturally and he never seemed to break sweat although he did so much to create goals besides scoring them.

He was coming to the end of his career then so no wonder Ipswich fans adore him having seen him in his pomp.

Yes that’s it he was kind of like the forward version of Futch - his football brain was way ahead of the younger players buzzing around.

Me the other lads I went with just called him “hero” - first we’d ask if one is got into the Ponny a bit late - is hero playing…

And Chelsea was certainly his home debut, I think also his actual debut.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

And his contribution apart of goalscoring was outstanding - assists weren’t a thing then but he would have had loads - probably the best all round footballer to play for Town in the last 50 years - edging Drinks, Joe and Clive…

I don't think we will see the likes of Whymark in a Town shirt again. Truly brilliant for us even though he was at the end of his career.

Quoted from Poojah

Well, I couldn’t post towards the latter end of last night as I apparently hit the Fishy’s arbitrary 50 post per day limit. Who knew? Anyway, I took that as the barman telling me I’d had enough to drink, and went to bed to sleep on matters.

A somewhat sleepless night as it happens, punctuated by psychedelic nightmares starring the ghosts of Andrew Dallas, Toby Mullarkey and Charles Vernam. They left me a message for Hursty, saying he needs to change his ways. A brief vision of poor Tiny Tom Hopper left me feeling very bleak.


A fair bit of emotion on display last night and this morning, it’s fair to say. Some foaming at the mouth at the short-term and seemingly austere nature of our January business, others urging for calm and to see the positives. Honestly, I can see both perspectives.

Of course there are positives. We are, somehow, back in the football league. Solihull might have Dallas, but they don’t have EFL status and probably won’t next season either. We’re still in the FA Cup. And yes, January isn’t really the best time to be making statement signings (though others around us arguably have).

Was yesterday the end of the world? Of course not. But “underwhelming” is a fair description. We are in the best financial position we have been in for nigh on 20 years, with surely one of the healthier organic incomes in the division. This, ultimately, is largely down to the thousands of people who forked out for season tickets in the summer, all in the face of a cost of living crisis. There is an understandable sense of investment.

What happened in May and June may well turn out to be a once in a lifetime event. An utterly incredible sequence of events that we would have to come down from eventually, but for me the squad we have right now simply does not reflect our current financial status. The number 9 shirt, one we so obviously needed to fill, remains vacant. And with that, we reduce the value of what is left of McAtee’s loan.

We have just 9 senior players contracted beyond the summer. The opportunity to make the closed season a period of smooth transition appears to have been lost.

I have no doubt that all concerned have tried incredibly hard, and the signings we have made may well go on to make valuable contributions. Emmanuel in particular could turn out to be a very clever signing (assuming we have an option on his contract), though little is known as to what kind of condition he is in.

All that said, from the outside looking in, we don’t look to have managed the window well. We’ve missed out on key targets, and that happens, but we also appear to have missed out on our third and fourth choices too. We have failed to address the most obvious gap in the squad, and we have let more players leave than have arrived which seems counter-intuitive given the fixture pileup that lays ahead.

All in all, there is little value in spin. I suspect those at the club are just as disappointed with the way things have turned out. Whether that’s anyone’s fault or just an unfortunate symptom of circumstance, questions need to be asked and issues addressed before we get to the summer.

I don’t write that with any anger whatsoever, but rather objective, sober reflection. The club will not evolve if we continue to recruit in this way, and that’s an opportunity we cannot afford to lose.

Onwards and upwards.

Very well spoken. Recruitment (on the face of it) is clearly not up to the standard it needs to be if we want to improve every window. However, I don’t think it’s the end of the world, and think we certainly have enough in our locker to stay up.
I do feel as though it’s a missed opportunity to push on with all the fixtures that lie ahead, and do also think that questions need to be asked at the fans forum, albeit in a constructive manner, and not just borderline abusive.

Quoted from RonMariner

If memory serves his first game was against Chelsea. He scored one and made one in a 2-0 win. He was obviously a class act. Well, it may not have been his first game, but it was the first time I saw him play.

The goal he scored was a near post header from a corner. I'd never seen a Town player do that before (I was youngish) and
was gobsmacked at the simplicity of it all.

And that's how I remember TW - doing seemingly simple-looking stuff which was superb in context. Sheer class.

On today’s evidence so far it’s not looking too bad!!!

Looks like Hursty got the right pieces for his jigsaw, new guys blending in great.

Quoted from 137

So being optimistic about the players we have brought in...

Everything I've seen and read about George Lloyd makes me think he could easily become a fans favourite due to his
workrate and combative nature. If he can start scoring goals we'll have a gem.

Tom Dickson-Peters has Scottish international caps at youth level - so there's certainly some ability there - and is described
as a 'clinical finisher' on his Norwich City webpage, who rate him highly.
Well that's what we need isn't it? Someone good at finishing off our (often) good approach play.
Doesn't need to be a 6-footer heading in crosses who scores our goals. Think Podge...

Josh Emmanuel is a super signing if his health issues are behind him...a real coup.
I can't believe PH hasn't done the due diligence on a player he knows well, so very hopeful.

Please excuse me while I feel a bit smug...  ::)

Only one game but the initial assessment may need reviewing on that performance. Brilliant stuff! now let's smash Luton and book ourselves a spot in the 5th round UTM

I think most of us went to bed on Tuesday night feeling a bit deflated with the players Hurst had signed and probably felt he had left it too late and all we had ended up with was a few players that no one else wanted , after seeing the team sheet prior to kick off we didn’t look too bad and with a good bench I felt more positive about today but never expected them to perform the way they did today and end up scoring 3 goals and keeping a clean sheet. Great result and now looking up the table instead of down. Well done to everyone today. UTM

As I thought, the incoming players looked to be better than the ones they replaced at first glance; not by a massive amount, but an improvement all the same. They weren't the fully formed, experienced players we were hoping for, except for Emmanuel and he's only here because he's working his way back to full fitness, but they looked to have a bit more than the young lads they replaced. Kiernan was hard working but limited and JMD was the opposite.

Today couldn't have gone much better, and it's not often we bring in a striker who scores on his debut, never mind two.

But let's not get carried away, we are still a work in progress and those better players we were hoping for will have to arrive in the summer now. We are likely to have days when we lose 3-0, so let's just have a bit of patience, get ourselves to 50 points as soon as possible and then see where we end up with this set of players.

We can then improve again in the summer.

As I said on another thread I hold my hands up!

As I said on another thread I hold my hands up!

So Jason was right we will improve every window.

Well done to all the players today and Hursty for getting it right again.

Roll on Luton !!!!

Quoted from forza ivano

As I said on another thread I hold my hands up!

Yes, both of them.  8)

Quoted from forza ivano

As I said on another thread I hold my hands up!

There is no need. If we all commented only after the event proved people right or wrong it wouldn't be half as much fun.

Its opinions that matter, whether they are right or wrong, or a bit of both, whether they are miles out or bang on the money.  

Quoted from ginnywings

As I thought, the incoming players looked to be better than the ones they replaced at first glance; not by a massive amount, but an improvement all the same. They weren't the fully formed, experienced players we were hoping for, except for Emmanuel and he's only here because he's working his way back to full fitness, but they looked to have a bit more than the young lads they replaced. Kiernan was hard working but limited and JMD was the opposite.

Today couldn't have gone much better, and it's not often we bring in a striker who scores on his debut, never mind two.

But let's not get carried away, we are still a work in progress and those better players we were hoping for will have to arrive in the summer now. We are likely to have days when we lose 3-0, so let's just have a bit of patience, get ourselves to 50 points as soon as possible and then see where we end up with this set of players.

We can then improve again in the summer.

This, in buckets.

Today was very encouraging, but Crewe were awful.

You can only beat what's in front of you and I saw plenty of positives in the performance.  McAtee back in his best position, Lloyd giving us the hold up play we've badly missed, a formation that seems to compliment our players and fits with a return to the high and energetic press we used to good effect earlier in the season, plus three promising debuts and suddenly having options galore to choose from.

Luton game is the focus now but it's straight back into with it thick and fast fixtures.  The next few weeks will quickly determine if we have anything to play for through Spring.

Quoted from grimsby pete

So Jason was right we will improve every window.

Well done to all the players today and Hursty for getting it right again.

Roll on Luton !!!!

Really enjoyed today Pete and I’m delighted to have seen us so dominant but, as good as we were, Crewe were absolute dogger. Let’s see how we go in the next couple of weeks. The reintroduction of Hunt and Morris shouldn’t be underestimated either.

A good sign if Morris is back to the form he was showing before his injury.

I can't believe how long it is since I've seen us play! A whole month without a home game. It's going to be a busy run in, that's for sure.

Not sure it's necessarily the players he brings in rather the timings .In the last 2 windows he has brought in what most people believe are panic signings to make up numbers .Remember we only had 6 on the bench against Luton so people saw we needed numbers .It is obvious also if he had gotten his targets earlier in the window those signed on the last day would not be here .We all want success and given the past 20 years it doesn't take much to panic us

Quoted from Norseman

Not sure it's necessarily the players he brings in rather the timings .In the last 2 windows he has brought in what most people believe are panic signings to make up numbers .Remember we only had 6 on the bench against Luton so people saw we needed numbers .It is obvious also if he had gotten his targets earlier in the window those signed on the last day would not be here .We all want success and given the past 20 years it doesn't take much to panic us

The pool of players to pick from for league games is more than we have for cup games due to players being cup-tied so Luton last week did make our player situation look a little bit worse.

Back to the bare bones on Tuesday!

Lots of posters commenting on how poor Crewe were.

They were unbeaten in January (1W, 3D), and if you listen to their manager's post-match comments it's clear he and the
team felt they were 'on the up' coming into the game. He (Lee Bell) looked a bit shell-shocked in the interview, and twice
commented that Town looked "brighter" than them, and that we deserved the win.

My take is that we made them look rubbish, and our players deserve full credit for that performance - rather than we caught Crewe
on an off day. There are 6 teams below Crewe in the league, and Crewe have game(s) in hand on 5 of them.
I think we can leave the relegation worries to them...