19:45 at the San Siro (Channel 4)

Only Italy (tonight) and Germany (Monday) to play before the World Cup.

England: Pope; Maguire, Dier, Walker; James, Rice, Bellingham, Saka, Foden; Sterling, Kane

England bench: Ramsdale, Henderson, Trippier, Shaw, Grealish, Coady, Ward-Prowse, Tomori, Mount, Bowen, Alexander-Arnold, Abraham

Can we not do better than Maguire and Dier as a centre back partnership?

No Ivan Toney either which begs the question of why you would call him up if you're not going to have a look at whether he can cut it at international level.

Southgate is always on about pickplayers on form and who are appearing regularly for their respective clubs, then picks  Maguire!!!

Is anyone else sick to death of seeing these bloody women commentating on top flight football for no other reason than they aren’t men?

Fair play they like football and that’s great but I want ex top flight player insight not a tick box exercise.

Male Private Nale, you CANNOT say that, you’ll have the thought police knocking on your door, then they’ll chalk it up as another football crime, that’s our next 3 away games kicking off at 11am now.

Thing is we'll be stodgy and boring, everyone will moan at southgate, then we'll suddenly be decent at the tournament again. I'll give these games a miss but starting to look forward to qatar now

Quoted from male private Nale

Is anyone else sick to death of seeing these bloody women commentating on top flight football for no other reason than they aren’t men?

Fair play they like football and that’s great but I want ex top flight player insight not a tick box exercise.

It depends on who the ‘ex-top flight players’ are. I’d rather listen to any woman in the world compared to Agbonlahor, Michael Owen or Redknapp snr/jnr.

Do we need pundits? specially given the majority of ones for English football are as thick as mince. I can make my own mind up about the games I’m watching so I’d rather have a highlights package like we get in the bars at BP and maybe some views from inside the ground of the fans after goals etc. Our match coverage is a bit samey no matter what channel you watch.

Turning up at a tournament dressed as Tottenham will not yield trophies either.

2 poor teams so far.

Worse first half than Town v Sutton.

What a boring 1st half of football that was. Could have continued watch Ted Lasso

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

It depends on who the ‘ex-top flight players’ are. I’d rather listen to any woman in the world compared to Agbonlahor, Michael Owen or Redknapp snr/jnr.

Agbonlahor is one of the best on talkSPORT.. says it how it is . And to throw petrol on the fire Simon Jordan is just fantastic

Quoted from LH

Do we need pundits? specially given the majority of ones for English football are as thick as mince. I can make my own mind up about the games I’m watching so I’d rather have a highlights package like we get in the bars at BP and maybe some views from inside the ground of the fans after goals etc. Our match coverage is a bit samey no matter what channel you watch.

Watching the game here in Greece they don’t think so, just had a solid 15 minute ad break for half time, perhaps they struggled to find any highlights from that first half

Shite free kick by Reece James but no way the Italy wall was ten yards.

Best bit so far has been the two minutes silence

Quoted from ginnywings

Can we not do better than Maguire and Dier as a centre back partnership?

No Ivan Toney either which begs the question of why you would call him up if you're not going to have a look at whether he can cut it at international level.

100% this especially when he's in such good form. I have been positive about Southgate in terms of taking us to a World Cup semi and the final of the Euros but he seems to have lost sight of something that worked well for him in giving players a chance based upon form rather than reputation and familiarity.

Anyway as I post this, 1- 0 to Italy.

I thought the Nations League was o.k. when it first started but surely it can't be every year can it? Maybe I've read the calendar wrong? Personally I'd like to see the return of the Home Internationals instead as they would be truly competitive.

It has been a tedious game. Looked like we were playing for the draw but at least we've got 20 minutes of trying to score a bit more now.

I'm frankly embarrassed for the forum that male private Nale's post received 7 gold stars.

Quoted from Maringer

It has been a tedious game. Looked like we were playing for the draw but at least we've got 20 minutes of trying to score a bit more now.

I'm frankly embarrassed for the forum that male private Nale's post received 7 gold stars.

Incels tend to have lots of free time on Friday nights.

Okay .... someone please put up an argument why Southgate should still manage England..I honestly can't see one positive of him being in charge, abysmal at league level, got unbelievably lucky at the Euro's and we are now 5 games in without scoring in open play.... dreading the world cup under him!

England under Southgate has run its course..He's completely lost his way..

Last 16 or quarters at best in Qatar..

Predictable and boring. Criminal with the resource of players we've got..

These nations league games were meant to be seen as a positive to add some competitiveness to internationals, they’re worse than those pointless friendlies they used to make us play against countries you’ve never heard of…

We've lost so the game was of no importance  ;)

Go on then I’ll indulge you all: who comes in as England manager tomorrow and wins them the World Cup?

Quoted from LH

Go on then I’ll indulge you all: who comes in as England manager tomorrow and wins them the World Cup?

Not the right question.

Almost anybody would be an improvement given the players avaialabe

Quoted from LH

Go on then I’ll indulge you all: who comes in as England manager tomorrow and wins them the World Cup?

I'd rather Scott Parker in charge than the current buffoon!..

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

I'd rather Scott Parker in charge than the current buffoon!..

I'd rather Parker in charge with M'Lady as his assistant.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Not the right question.

Almost anybody would be an improvement given the players avaialabe

Invalid answer. I want a name (preferably less hilarious than Scott Parker).

Quoted from Bigdog

England under Southgate has run its course..He's completely lost his way..

Last 16 or quarters at best in Qatar..

Predictable and boring. Criminal with the resource of players we've got..

I don't always agree with you, on this occasion I do completely.

Graham Potter would probably have been my pick but we missed the chance to get him..

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

I'd rather Scott Parker in charge than the current buffoon!..

F**k me you must have started early. He won't have a parachute payment to get England back to the next level of the Nations League like he did at his last club job.

This has been building for years now. Southgate has picked up the best generation of footballers we’ve possibly ever had and slowly choked all of the excitement out of them over a sustained period of time.

Quoted from LH

Invalid answer. I want a name (preferably less hilarious than Scott Parker).

There isn't one. We've tried every kind of manager there is and we haven't won a Trophy for over 50 years.

Fans always think a change of manager will do the trick, but it never does, which sort of suggests the players aren't good enough, or good enough in sufficient numbers. Our defence is second rate on a world stage.

Quoted from TwoLeftFeet

Graham Potter would probably have been my pick but we missed the chance to get him..

I’d have to agree with this. Of all teams to move to Chelsea is probably the worst for his career if it doesn’t go to plan in the first 18 months or so. The point of my question was that there really isn’t anyone about. The FA shat the bed before WC2018 and sacked Hodgson for.. err… Gareth Southgate.

Quoted from LH

Go on then I’ll indulge you all: who comes in as England manager tomorrow and wins them the World Cup?

Up until the last month I'd have like to have seen Steve Cooper involved as he had 5 years in the set up prior to managing Swansea in 2019 and did a great job with Forest last year in terms of making player feel good and  getting the best out of them. He's about to face the biggest tests of his career now though of he can blend all the new faces at the City ground to keep them in the Premier League this season.

The qualification rollovers lull us into a false sense of security as we breeze through them in second gear. The Nations League pitted us against the best sides, who we invariably fail to beat, but now we play them more often it's more apparent that we are not world beaters. Now we've been relegated the opposition will get a bit easier again. We'll get through the group stages for the WC but won't last much longer unless we fluke an easy draw like last time.

You have to look for the positives. After relegation from the top league following a frankly pathetic set of performances, at least we'll have a different selection of pointless fixtures to play next time around.

Too many players either well out of form or simply just not good enough at the moment. We're utterly reliant on either scoring from a set piece or for Kane to do something with no obvious options for alternatives up front. If he gets injured, what are we going to do? I don't have a clue and I suspect that Southgate doesn't, either.

A bit worried that time seems to be catching up with Walker who has been pretty reliable defensively in recent years, but he was sloppy for their goal today. I don't think Pope is good enough for the top level and Pickford has his ups and downs as well. Eric Dier's 46th cap tonight, apparently. Crikey. Maguire did OK but he's nowhere near his best. James is just lazy, I'm afraid. Lots of ability but spends most of his time jogging around. I'm not quite sure why he sweats so much with such little effort. Saka looked lost at wing-back. I'd have started Shaw and then put Saka on later on. Bellingham looks a very capable young player and I thought he might have won a penalty after the clumsy challenge which knocked him onto his back. Rice doesn't seem to be at his best and Foden struggles to show his ability at international level, possibly because of the position where he's playing. Sterling is just not the threat he was last summer.

I think our best chance is to have another poor result on Monday and we can then find ourselves as seriously struggling underdogs at the World Cup, which might actually benefit us!

Quoted from HertsGTFC

F**k me you must have started early. He won't have a parachute payment to get England back to the next level of the Nations League like he did at his last club job.

Sarcasm my friend, it was sarcasm!

Forgot to say, Grealish is good at winning free-kicks, but is he ever going to do anything else? Winning free-kicks is all well and good if you're going to do something from them, but we're not at the moment and we're never going to build up a head of steam if he's on his backside to win a free-kick every time he gets the ball.

Don't get me wrong, he's a very skilful player, but he needs to achieve more than just making life slightly awkward for the opposition defenders. Make the pass that achieves something rather than win the free-kick that doesn't.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Sarcasm my friend, it was sarcasm!

Fair point, I get it now.  ;)

The squad just doesn’t have any ‘pazazz’ or ‘ je nais se quois’ about it. There’s no player like  (in recent times) a Rooney, Owen etc

Didn’t watch tonight but can sort of guess the performance

The problem for England is that most of the players in the Premiership that the pundits all fawn over aren't English, and that’s why we won’t win a World Cup anytime soon

Pick your best top flight 11, how many qualify for England ?

Another example of the English game being run for the benefit of the “plastic” Premiership and it’s “global” audience, at the expense of the National game, and down to league 2 and below

Quoted from lee65

The problem for England is that most of the players in the Premiership that the pundits all fawn over aren't English, and that’s why we won’t win a World Cup anytime soon

Pick your best top flight 11, how many qualify for England ?

Another example of the English game being run for the benefit of the “plastic” Premiership and it’s “global” audience, at the expense of the National game, and down to league 2 and below

I just cant understand how pitting manchester united u21s vs rochdale in a cup game every year hasnt given us an english de bruyne

Quoted from LH

Go on then I’ll indulge you all: who comes in as England manager tomorrow and wins them the World Cup?

Howe, Potter, Gerrard, Viera and Pochettino all seem better prospects than Southgate nowadays.. possibly Cooper too..

Superiority complex syndrome .

Quoted from Bigdog

Howe, Potter, Gerrard, Viera and Pochettino all seem better prospects than Southgate nowadays.. possibly Cooper too..

I'd take Hodgson back over Gerrard!

Quoted from Abdul19

I'd take Hodgson back over Gerrard!

And yet Celtic have regained their dominance ever since Gerrard left Rangers.. and Palace haven't been fighting a relegation battle since Hodgson left and Viera took over..

Quoted from Bigdog

And yet Celtic have regained their dominance ever since Gerrard left Rangers.. and Palace haven't been fighting a relegation battle since Hodgson left and Viera took over..

0 relegation battles in 1 year for Palace and the dominant team of the last decade return to winning ways in Scotland. Have you seen how bad Villa are? Pochettino is a good manager but I don’t think he can win England a WC. Potter and Howe are comfy at their current desks.

I think England's best hope going into the world cup is to draw another flukey passage to the latter stages like the last 2 tournaments.

Quoted from male private Nale

Is anyone else sick to death of seeing these bloody women commentating on top flight football for no other reason than they aren’t men?

Fair play they like football and that’s great but I want ex top flight player insight not a tick box exercise.

Its not just football, its every sport. Look they a few good knowledgeable women pundits, which I prefer to the dribble that comes out some of the ex players, but they are just too many our screens.

Just on your comment on wanting an insight from ex top flight players, these are the players that achieved nothing with England, but just slate our current team, which makes me laugh. I have watched enough football over the years to understand whats required and don't listen to the crap before and after the games.

The game is over analysed these days, a simple game complicated.  I am not bothered whether a player has run 26 miles, made 20 passes, made 15 tackles etc etc etc the only stats that count are goals for and against.

England’s elite players just aren’t very good . This is shown whenever they play anyone decent. The cream of the worlds players who are in the top PL teams basically carry our lads and when it comes to playing together they can’t look very ordinary. Doesn’t help having a boring manager who doesn’t seem the most charismatic.

Quoted from male private Nale

Is anyone else sick to death of seeing these bloody women commentating on top flight football for no other reason than they aren’t men?

Fair play they like football and that’s great but I want ex top flight player insight not a tick box exercise.

Let’s see if I can put this in a way that avoids any accusations of being a racist sexist.  What’s happened in most of the civilised world but with emphasis in the UK is a reaction to years of exclusion.  There is probably a case to argue that commentary and analysis has declined because of a focus in ensuring that everything conforms with political correctness.

What we’re seeing at the moment is sub-standard because the TV networks are more focused on over compensation rather than who is the best person for the job.  Where I object to your post is that you’ve generalised and it therefore seems that you harbour a sexist viewpoint.  Lose that element and criticise instead on a performance basis and I could probably agree in some instances.

You didn’t mention race so don’t think that I’m making any sort of accusation.  In my opinion, Micah Richards and Clinton Morrison are two of the very best commentators/pundits.  Not too many years ago they wouldn’t have been given the opportunity which was completely wrong.

Southgate is the most boring stubborn manager around his teams dont start playing until 1-0 down , we will get to the 1/4 finals no probs then first time we play a half decent team we're on the plane home

Quoted from fishcake63

Southgate is the most boring stubborn manager around his teams dont start playing until 1-0 down , we will get to the 1/4 finals no probs then first time we play a half decent team we're on the plane home

what you should consider is that the same old duffers club that (allegedly) run the game are the ones who appointed him.  I’d be amazed if he had any objectives apart from qualification and avoiding controversy.

I think Southgate’s influence goes beyond the actual England team. He’s working in an organisation that is so far removed from its own game it’s untrue, full of old men with power who again, know very little.

We’ll get to the quarters/semi’s again and probably go out to some ropey goal. That’s football and I guess that’s why it’s actuslly difficult to predict etc.

I forgot we were even playing last night and apparently now you get relegated? What made up flipping nonsense is this. Does anyone acruslly care about international results unless it’s a qualifier or a tournament?

We are shite. Can't be bothered to read the comments on this site and don't agree with any of the 54 already posted.

England playing?…..........there's some paint drying in the living room so I'll give the match a miss.
Got to say though , looking at how Graham potter has got Brighton playing before he left, I'd put him in charge, Southgate too boring and negative, players look lost with no game plan.
Harry Maguire finally exposed for the cart house he truly is.
Southgate spends more time on "inclusion training" and making sure the rainbow armbands are fitted properly.
Let's forget about all this p.c. woke wet wipe bollox and get back to proper football.

Quoted from FPVmariner

Let’s see if I can put this in a way that avoids any accusations of being a racist sexist.  What’s happened in most of the civilised world but with emphasis in the UK is a reaction to years of exclusion.  There is probably a case to argue that commentary and analysis has declined because of a focus in ensuring that everything conforms with political correctness.

What we’re seeing at the moment is sub-standard because the TV networks are more focused on over compensation rather than who is the best person for the job.  Where I object to your post is that you’ve generalised and it therefore seems that you harbour a sexist viewpoint.  Lose that element and criticise instead on a performance basis and I could probably agree in some instances.

You didn’t mention race so don’t think that I’m making any sort of accusation.  In my opinion, Micah Richards and Clinton Morrison are two of the very best commentators/pundits.  Not too many years ago they wouldn’t have been given the opportunity which was completely wrong.

Nicely done.
Personally... a humorous , knowledgeable and precise opinion is what I want from my pundits. I really don't care how that is "packaged".

If however,  at half time/post match ,  I am only going to subjected to nothing more than over scrutinising endless VAR angles with "experts" telling me what I can already plainly see for myself .....then i would rather take the most attractive package to deliver that message.

England managers, sucking the life out of players on repeat

Just watched the game this morning was busy Friday , anyway it was crap have a good day  fishies

The PL does have many of the world’s best players. That is from many countries.  There are very good English players in the PL.  Kane and Foden etc.  We also have Bellingham plying his trade abroad.

We have good young players in the PL.  The issue is that Southgate cannot get the best out of them.  Individually or collectively.  

England v Germany.

Last chance for players to impress before the World Cup.

England XI: Pope; Stones, Dier, Maguire; James, Rice, Bellingham, Shaw; Foden, Kane, Sterling

Subs: Ramsdale, Trippier, Henderson, Walker, Coady, Guehi, Saka, Mount, Toney, Chilwell, Abraham

Tomori not in the squad but Coady on the bench  ;D

Jesus the Channel 4 coverage is awful.

This seems a better balanced side, the problem is Shaw and Maguire are completely out of form. A lot is been asked of 19 year old Jude Bellingham. Is Grealish injured? We looked better when he came on on Friday.

Quoted from promotion plaice

England v Germany.

Last chance for players to impress before the World Cup.

England XI: Pope; Stones, Dier, Maguire; James, Rice, Bellingham, Shaw; Foden, Kane, Sterling

Subs: Ramsdale, Trippier, Henderson, Walker, Coady, Guehi, Saka, Mount, Toney, Chilwell, Abraham

Toney is going to have to have great 2nd half debut to get on the plane. We know all about the starting 11 so what’s the point in brining in new talent at this stage if they are not starting?

When is Southgate going to give Toney a chance, we all know Kane’s game, and it seems he plays every game,but if he gets an injury.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Jesus the Channel 4 coverage is awful.

This seems a better balanced side, the problem is Shaw and Maguire are completely out of form. A lot is been asked of 19 year old Jude Bellingham. Is Grealish injured? We looked better when he came on on Friday.

Grealish is suspended for totting up yellow cards.

I agree on the Toney point others have made and commented on it on Friday night when he wasn't even in the match day squad.

Quoted from Gaffer58

When is Southgate going to give Toney a chance, we all know Kane’s game, and it seems he plays every game,but if he gets an injury.

If anything happens to Kane, Sterling will play through the middle. Toney would be a long way down the pecking order.

I think we will see a better performance from England now that we are playing on Wembley's hybrid pitch

Why are we not playing in our home kit?

Quoted from promotion plaice

Why are we not playing in our home kit?

‘Cos it’s shíte. Away kit not bad.

Are they trying to sell more shirts?

Quoted from promotion plaice

Why are we not playing in our home kit?

It's a tribute to the Queen as we played in Red in 1966 when she handed the trophy to Bobby Moore against Germany. A bit round the houses but that was the explanation given on the radio.

I think pink chiffon would suit this lot better

Maguire messes up again.

0-1 Germany.

What a fucking carthorse

You simply can't give Havertz that much space.

0-2 Germany.

11 shite players picked by a shite manager - no wonder we are shite

The one positive of this performance is that, at 37 and having not kicked a football in about 10 years, it seems my boyhood dream of playing for England one day is not dead.

I'm watching this game in Germany. The Germans I'm watching with are laughing at Maguires every touch. Embarrassing.

Quoted from golfer

11 shite players picked by a shite manager - no wonder we are shite

Shite post

2-2

They're not laughing now :)

At some point Southgate has to be braver earlier.
Km hoping PH does the same tomorrow

Bellingham’s been outstanding.

Should be a penalty and a red card. Like the McAtee incident in play off final.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Bellingham’s been outstanding.

Absolute class and fearless.

Penalty England.

Quoted from golfer

11 shite players picked by a shite manager - no wonder we are shite

I just looked in the dictionary and the proper meaning of shite is "fantastic"

Fking shite - they've scored

Pope's looked shake this game and he struggles with his distribution to

We haven't had a decent keeper for a long time 3-3.

Class of Southgate to give toney a run out….. sack him ffs

Cracking game but as I said on Friday, we have a second rate defence and all three Germany goals came from mistakes by us.

You won't win a tournament with a defence as leaky as that.

Play without fear of failure and England are alright. Doesn’t bode well for the WC. Whilst Southgate’s loyalty to some (out of form and devoid of confidence) players might be deemed admirable it’s really odd that he wouldn’t try this free hit as a chance to try Tomori at CB for just one example.

Didn't tell us anything we didn't know, okay going forward but  defensively were a long way short...

And why did the ref need var to tell him they were both pens!

Quoted from promotion plaice

We haven't had a decent keeper for a long time 3-3.

Just run us through any mistakes Pickford has made which have resulted in a goal when he’s been playing for England?

Good last 20 minutes the rest very much like a lot of games nowadays played at pedestrian pace where possession is king, once England injected some urgency and pace it became a cracking spectacle.

Good night for Pickford. Thought we looked great when we actually attacked, Maguire is a walking mistake

Maguire is the best passer we have out of defence, but he's in terrible defensive form at the moment. He's playing badly, but I'm not too sure the alternatives are much better.

In the past two games, the pundits have made great play on the fact that Pope has had to work on his distribution since his move to Newcastle because he's expected to pass it a bit more. If you've managed to reach the age of 30 without learning to control a simple backpass effectively (as appears to be the case from tonight's performance), I think it's probably a bit too late to learn this sort of stuff. Unsurprised by his handling error, as well. Is Pickford likely to picked? Always a rick in him, too, but at least he tends to kick it a bit more effectively.

James is an odd one for England. A wing-back who doesn't do much defending, much running, or much attacking. Put in one or two crosses but, all told, I think I'd probably be happier to see TAA or Trippier playing at present. Shaw did pretty well in patches, as he generally has for England in recent years. Let's hope he's fit and playing well come November.

Bellingham did well again and Rice was decent so we've got the basis for the midfield. The only issue is that we don't have the player to be a playmaker in the middle.

Foden disappointing tonight, with some poor set pieces and a big miss when he failed to put it on a plate for Kane in the first half. Sterling OK in general but way out of form in front of goal.

We played well enough tonight to indicate we ought to be able to get out of the group stage in the World Cup, but I think quarter-finals are likely to be the furthest we can go at the moment.

I am old enough to remember 1966. In the run up all the same comments were made about Alf Ramsey in the run up to the tournament, we were awful. The rest as they say, is history!

Wasn’t even aware England were playing last night, wouldn’t have watched it anyway so nothing lost.

It was an entertaining game, unlike most of the others in this edition of the 'Nations League'.

On that showing I don't think that either England or Germany will be getting their hands on the trophy this December. Defensively, neither is good enough and I don't think either team has enough in attack, either.

Quoted from mimma

I am old enough to remember 1966. In the run up all the same comments were made about Alf Ramsey in the run up to the tournament, we were awful. The rest as they say, is history!

The last 50+ unsuccessful, trophy-less years are also our history.

I think both have a chance of winning but equally both look to have significant weaknesses which will likely cost them.

Foden is a mystery, no doubt an amazing player but perhaps lacks confidence in an England shirt or the different coaching etc impacts his performance.

Maguire is getting stick and understandably so but Southgate trusts him, I can see what Southgate is trying to do but I suspect it’s affecting Maguire. For me, with that being the last game, ignore the fact it’s Germany and give some of those like Tomori a go. You have to try, I couldn’t care less about losing to the Germans, but blooding players or gambling in a tournament is a risky game.

I’d have given Toney a run out too but then again, I’m sat in an office waiting for an annual review rather than St George’s park or wherever planning to go to a World Cup.

The run up to this World Cup is flat, perhaps that’s the time of year it’s being played etc and where and so forth…

I’m sure we’ll all be on the bandwagon thoigh…