What do you think the outcome will be with
the present situation with North Korea?

Kim Jon-un seems to be a loose cannon and is capable of anything so it seems.

To fire a missile over Japan is surely an act of war, it must have been terrifying for those people in Japan.

Surely Russia and China need to do more than what they are doing now, if they don't I can only see a war breaking out and due to the weapons North Korea have(supposedly) it would be horrific.

What's your thoughts?

Korexit .......
Blow the f@ckers sky high 💥

intercourse Korea, nuke France.

The thing is if we do nothing as sure is eggs are eggs the mental midget will launch a serious attack, and on that basis the time as come to take him and his regime out, I'd rather not see military action but this mad man needs stopping now before its to late.

Tempting as that may be it'd surely launch WWIII. If China's statements are anything to go by.

The alternative, if they have the control systems up to the job, can the US launch missiles over north Korea to land in that bit of sea between there and China?

The last missile that was fired at Japan landed 100 mile off their coast line and with this one firing over he is getting bolder and bolder. He is doing it for several reasons, one of them maybe to force negotiations, a bit of a gamble if that is right. The South Koreans could see it as an opportunity to unite North and South by removing Kim from office as he becoming a bit of a basket case internationally and a danger to everyone, would China rather see the South do something so aren't forced to intervene?

I suspect the Chinese are more worried about the prospect of a pro-Western reunited Korea on their doorstep than anything else. The Taiwan situation is bubbling under all the time so I don't expect any noises to come out of Beijing in support of regime change in the North.

Quoted from barralad

I suspect the Chinese are more worried about the prospect of a pro-Western reunited Korea on their doorstep than anything else. The Taiwan situation is bubbling under all the time so I don't expect any noises to come out of Beijing in support of regime change in the North.

I see what you are saying Ian, I don't think the Chinese would say they would openly support regime change but more in secret wouldn't mind it. The Chinese will know everything Trump has said since he come to office and the attack he launched out of the blue in Syria later saying that base was the source of a chemical attack on civilians.

If one of these missiles fails and falls on Japan I don't the first thing on Trumps mind will be sanctions. Will the Chinese go to war, I would think they would rather avoid it.

Thing is, if Japan was actually attacked, North Korea would be flattened by the Yanks and they know it. The only others to suffer would be the tens of thousands killed in Seoul due to the thousands of dug in artillery pieces NK have pointed over the border. These could pump tens of thousands of shells over Seoul (a densely populated city) before they were disabled.

Now, the Kims might be murderous scumbags with not one jot of interest in the lot of their people and a hatred for the 'west' (nominally including their southern neighbours), but I don't think they are idiots. They can get away with sabre rattling actions such as the odd missile into the sea and an artillery exchange with SK once in a while, but know anything more serious is likely to lead to their extermination.

With this in mind, the only question is whether Trump is intelligent enough to listen to his military advisors and not attempt to launch an attack. The comparisons with Syria don't hold any basis whatsoever. Syria can't hurt anyone of interest to the west. Not so with NK who could do serious damage to SK, one of the world's most advanced and important economies. Any Korean war would almost certainly lead to a global recession, regardless of the loss of life on either side.

While the US keep having their show of force near North Korea,

The North will keep sending their missiles into the sea,

One is bound to go astray then that's when Trump will react,

God knows what the outcome will be if a full scale war erupts.

Whatever happens I just hope the leaders listen to the experts in their foreign offices who've spent a career trying to understand the other countries and their outlooks. Understanding the mindset and which (metaphoric) buttons to press and which ones not to. It's harmful in any negotiation assuming the other side see things as you do.

Town finally sort themselves out and Kim drops a 100kiloton hydrogen bomb in his back garden and claims it a success. We might not even have a chance to sell out the tickets for Mansfield let alone play the game!

Anyone still thinks this mad man is just playing games?

Yep. They've got perhaps a few warheads with a yield up to 100 kilotons with crude launcher systems which haven't been tested for accuracy. The Yanks have thousands of missiles with warheads running into many hundreds of kilotons which are pinpoint accurate, a handful of which could turn Pyongyang into a smoking cinder.

If Kim had a death wish, he'd be serious. He doesn't, so he is just playing games.

I never claimed he was smart, though!

Just to add, the Yanks' largest warhead is currently 1.2 megatons yield (yes, Google is your friend). In the past they had a 9 megaton warhead, now retired, thankfully.

If the North Koreans have indeed developed a hydrogen bomb it's a serious change but don't equate what they currently have to the other nuclear powers who've had more advanced and more powerful weaponry for many decades.

The real problem is that there are two fairly unintelligent and very volatile leaders. Only needs one of them to be too head-strong and impulsive to create a disaster.

Yeah, the whole doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction sort of falls apart when you've got fuckwits in charge.

If its down to Trump I think he will nuke them,

BUT

His advisors will tell him that is not the best way to go,

What will happen is up to Russia and China the only 2 countries that might sway Korea to cool things on their test,

If they don't then Trump might just do something we will all regret.

If the Yanks were to nuke North Korea, the fallout cloud would drift over either South Korea (a close ally) or parts of China (one of the world's major powers who you really don't want to urine off). Perhaps both, depending on climatic conditions.

Nope, clownshoe though he is, I can't see even Trump launching a pre-emptive nuclear strike.

I wonder if the regime in NK is just causing as much noise as possible in an attempt to get more economic help from China? Have they got another famine on the cards at the moment, I wonder?

Corbyn has been a bit quiet on trident recently.

You would think that the world would be a much safer place with all these 'deterrents' spaffing around.

I think Trump would love to nuke somebody but  he will be advised not to,

However I would not be surprised if he dropped  a rather large bomb on North Korea's missile site.

Quoted from grimsby pete

However I would not be surprised if he dropped  a rather large bomb on North Korea's missile site.

Which one?

The Yanks and Russians have their missiles in hidden bunkers and I'd imagine NK will be much the same. In theory, you can't risk an attack as you don't know if you'll miss the missiles, so to speak.

Ultimately, I don't think the US is in any danger of attack but I'd be getting a little worried if I lived in South Korea. The conventional weapons NK have aimed at their cities could do enough damage, but a retaliatory H-bomb attack doesn't bear thinking about.

Hopefully, neither side is idiotic enough to escalate to actual attacks.

Quoted from Maringer

Which one?

The Yanks and Russians have their missiles in hidden bunkers and I'd imagine NK will be much the same. In theory, you can't risk an attack as you don't know if you'll miss the missiles, so to speak.

Ultimately, I don't think the US is in any danger of attack but I'd be getting a little worried if I lived in South Korea. The conventional weapons NK have aimed at their cities could do enough damage, but a retaliatory H-bomb attack doesn't bear thinking about.

Hopefully, neither side is idiotic enough to escalate to actual attacks.

If you do not think the US with all their spy satellites do not know where they are you are not as clever as I think you are,

Even South Korea have said they have evidence the North are planning another missile launch.

I agree with you that neither side should be idiotic enough to escalate things,

BUT

We have two idiots who do not want to back down so who knows ?

I'd imagine the Yanks know where most of the sites are, but do they definitely have all of them? Spy sats aren't much good at detecting tunnels, I wouldn't think.

We're in agreement about the idiocy of both sides, but I think only the Yanks might be daft enough to actually kick things off. If it got to that stage, you'd hope that Trump might 'accidentally' fall down some stairs before the order was given.

Quoted from Maringer

I'd imagine the Yanks know where most of the sites are, but do they definitely have all of them? Spy sats aren't much good at detecting tunnels, I wouldn't think.

We're in agreement about the idiocy of both sides, but I think only the Yanks might be daft enough to actually kick things off. If it got to that stage, you'd hope that Trump might 'accidentally' fall down some stairs before the order was given.

if taking photographs from a plane in 1945 could identify Nazi V1,V2, and the supergun site that were bunkered and tunnelled in then i am sure the technology available now will be upto the job.

Quoted from moosey_club

if taking photographs from a plane in 1945 could identify Nazi V1,V2, and the supergun site that were bunkered and tunnelled in then i am sure the technology available now will be upto the job.

The technology certainly does exist and there is a specific trade that checks these images to pick out what is there, I've seen spy satellite pictures of China's military assets as part of a military briefing when I was in the Forces. I was an engineer for photographic section and again as part of my role saw pictures as part of the training taken during WW2 where cameras are set at different angles and placing together gave you a sort of 3d image so you could even see people on the ground. Also there will be historic images from years ago so any sort of works can be seen. With some of the wet film images you could zoom in far more than digital so that measurements could be taken.

As others have said about Trump using a nuke, I can't see how he would but I could see him using a few MOAB's on either silo's or facilities involved in creating Nuclear or Hydrogen warheads.

Look at that face of pleasure from the production of lube. Such a jolly little fatty.

[img]https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/_zmlJB9Bcb93l_xJ7YTrFJ2sDhU=/950x534/filters:quality(90)/2014%2F08%2F07%2Fa2%2Fh_51507367.9b4be.jpg[/img]

Quoted from moosey_club

if taking photographs from a plane in 1945 could identify Nazi V1,V2, and the supergun site that were bunkered and tunnelled in then i am sure the technology available now will be upto the job.

Don't forget that we had plenty of intelligence on the ground back then. Assistance from German scientists, spies of various nationalities and so forth. No doubt that the spy sat technology is an enormous improvement over aerial photography, but we'll have pretty much nothing in terms of human intelligence as NK is a sealed state.

My guess is that the Yanks and their allies don't have any certainty that they know everything which is going on inside NK and their development of these weapons. A 'fairly good idea' isn't much use when you're talking about nuclear weapons.

Quoted from Marinerz93

As others have said about Trump using a nuke, I can't see how he would but I could see him using a few MOAB's on either silo's or facilities involved in creating Nuclear or Hydrogen warheads.

At which point, thousands of tonnes of shells start raining down on Seoul and we get tens of thousands of civilian casualties. We're in a no-win situation here. Hope Trump realises this.

Quoted from Maringer

At which point, thousands of tonnes of shells start raining down on Seoul and we get tens of thousands of civilian casualties. We're in a no-win situation here. Hope Trump realises this.

And who would want to be in Trumps shoes he's dammed if he does and will be dammed (especially by the left) if he doesn't.

At least Putin is talking sense just glad we haven't got Hilary Clinton running things.

Trump went for the top job and got it (God help us). If he makes a balderdash up of things, which seems almost certain given his track record so far, he should expect to be damned for it.

I agree that you wouldn't want to be in his shoes at the moment!

Quoted from Maringer

My guess is that the Yanks and their allies don't have any certainty that they know everything which is going on inside NK and their development of these weapons. A 'fairly good idea' isn't much use when you're talking about nuclear weapons.

True,... that's only an acceptable enough reason to get involved when in its "weapons of mass destruction" isnt it ?  ;)

Especially if those weapons are just weeks/days/hours/minutes from being able to be deployed!

Sorry, just getting into the 'dodgy dossier' way of writing there.

Quoted from Maringer

At which point, thousands of tonnes of shells start raining down on Seoul and we get tens of thousands of civilian casualties. We're in a no-win situation here. Hope Trump realises this.

At the minute it's all Sabre rattling and puffing of chests. The scenario above may well be what starts it all, it's a waiting game to see how this will turn out, hopefully China or Russia will be able to make him see sense.

Quoted from Marinerz93

At the minute it's all Sabre rattling and puffing of chests. The scenario above may well be what starts it all, it's a waiting game to see how this will turn out, hopefully China or Russia will be able to make him see sense.

i hope they have better luck than his barber does...

Quoted from Manchester Mariner

Look at that face of pleasure from the production of lube. Such a jolly little fatty.

[img]https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/_zmlJB9Bcb93l_xJ7YTrFJ2sDhU=/950x534/filters:quality(90)/2014%2F08%2F07%2Fa2%2Fh_51507367.9b4be.jpg[/img]

Oh yummy  yummy is that that all for me  ;D

Quoted from Grim74

And who would want to be in Trumps shoes he's dammed if he does and will be dammed (especially by the left) if he doesn't.

At least Putin is talking sense just glad we haven't got Hilary Clinton running things.

Why would he be 'dammed by the left if he doesnt'?

Quoted from chaos33

Why would he be 'dammed by the left if he doesnt'?

If wongun decides to flip out and launch an attack killing many, you know very well that the left will be in uproar pointing the finger at Trump for not doing anything, CNN will probably go as far as to blame Trump for the actual attack.

The right will be more likely to do that. Yet more confused thinking from you.

Whatever anyone thinks of the chubby lad you've got to look at it from his point of view. Saddam and Gadaffi didn't have nukes and got toppled. Assad hasn't and but for the Russians and Iranians jumping in, probably would have gone by now. So he's going to keep those weapons unless he's 100% sure the Chinese will retaliate on his behalf if attacked.

Why would he want to launch a first strike unless under imminent threat of attack?

So the solution has got to be around making NK feel secure enough not to do all these risky test-cum warning launches.

PS and I can't see Russia or China itching to relieve the West of this embarrassment. Anything that undermines confidence in the US and its 'vassals' is helpful to them.

The problem with Trump is he started with very threating talk followed by a lot less aggro,= in his comments

So Kim ( we are on 1st name terms )  ;D knows the USA will not being doing anything,

Korea will finish doing their tests and become a nuclear power in the world.

He is not daft enough to do a 1st strike because he knows that would be the end of him.

North Korea has no intention of attacking the US or it's allies first. It's agenda is to survive, and you can call Kim stupid, but he's playing a clever game, as there's no way the US can attack first. China already has a nouse of American military bases around it, and won't allow the buffer of North Korea to dissapear. Therefore, america either starts wwIII or does nothing and allows north korea to further build up it's arsenal.

Massively complex situation so long discussions and answers abound really, but two brief notions that could be deployed...

America reduces it's military presence in the area and ceases it's  'war games' in conjunction with South Korea Off the NK coast.

Secondly, China, who surely hold the key, can implement, or at least, say they will consider severely limiting NK's import of fuel and other vital resources unless Kim agrees to cease missile launches and aggressive war mongering statements.

This needs to be diffused....

If America strikes first they will be the scourge of the world, and if NK strike first they will be utterly wiped off the map.

If I were in Chinese shoes, there's no way I'd anyway help America.

Just revisited this thread again after the breaking news and it was a time some of us could see a nuclear war on the horizon, but Maringer summed up Kim Wong-un perfectly as a sabre rattler and Fortunately Trump understood this!

So after years of appeasement from previous presidents which achieved absolutely nothing the free world now has a leader who will stand up to this kind of tyrant, so my question is now... how many times does Trump have to be proved right before the establishment stop calling him nuts?

Even CNN is admitting (with gritted teeth) that if Trump solves this crisis it would make his presidency GREAT!
It has been an absolute pleasure watching their headlines this morning even if it did lead with bizarrely - 'Trumps inexcusable condolence to steel worker' 🙄..... the far left must be in tears today.

Now I take on board that there may be a slim chance of some some kind of ploy by the Wong-un but even so getting to this stage where both leaders have agreed to meet (not to mention talk of the dismantling of their nuclear arms) and and discuss peace is absolutely massive!! no sitting president as ever visited the NK leader (source CNN).

Just imagine if Trumps pulls this off he's going to be a shoo-in to win the Nobel peace prize ✌️

My main concern is that Trump watched 'The Interview', thought it was a documentary and plans to attempt to assassinate Kim himself.   ;)

When you consider all the stupid things Trump has done already, he might actually have somehow blundered into getting something right, completely by chance! Even a broken clock shows the right time twice a day.

Hope so, for the sake of all the Koreans, though I'm not holding my breath...

Quoted from Grim74

Just revisited this thread again after the breaking news and it was a time some of us could see a nuclear war on the horizon, but Maringer summed up Kim Wong-un perfectly as a sabre rattler and Fortunately Trump understood this!

So after years of appeasement from previous presidents which achieved absolutely nothing the free world now has a leader who will stand up to this kind of tyrant, so my question is now... how many times does Trump have to be proved right before the establishment stop calling him nuts?

Even CNN is admitting (with gritted teeth) that if Trump solves this crisis it would make his presidency GREAT!
It has been an absolute pleasure watching their headlines this morning even if it did lead with bizarrely - 'Trumps inexcusable condolence to steel worker' 🙄..... the far left must be in tears today.

Now I take on board that there may be a slim chance of some some kind of ploy by the Wong-un but even so getting to this stage where both leaders have agreed to meet (not to mention talk of the dismantling of their nuclear arms) and and discuss peace is absolutely massive!! no sitting president as ever visited the NK leader (source CNN).

Just imagine if Trumps pulls this off he's going to be a shoo-in to win the Nobel peace prize ✌️

Well this is garbage - all Trump has done is hand the murderous North Korean dictator a massive propaganda coup and he got nothing in return.

Quoted from Grim74

the far left must be in tears today.

I'd have thought not given that North Korea and their main ally are run by Communists.