Something from the trust for fans to have their say....  Get your points across!!

As a Trust Board, we are seeking the views of our members as to what they think our next moves should be.  

http://www.marinerstrust.co.uk/the-mariners-trust-where-next/

We will collate all questions and comments emailed to suggestions@marinerstrust.co.uk and ask that these are sent to us by 9pm on Tuesday 1st August at the latest

Not sounding to promising maybe they have had enough of towing the party line

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Not sounding to promising maybe they have had enough of towing the party line

It is some considerable time since the question was asked. Any representative organisation should be involving members on a regular basis in directing the direction of travel. When the Trust was originally set up all those years ago representation at Board level was by and large deemed to be the Holy Grail. We have now had several years of such representation and the time is ripe to ask the question.

This is a worrying state of affairs when The Trust are no longer sure of their role or their future. Although they have a board member they have no influence. They can have their say but then must tow the party line. It is a great shame after the great effort put in over the years to get itself established and make a difference. Expect many to cancel their membership and we will see a slow painful death of well meaning, hard working organisation.

Quoted from oldun

This is a worrying state of affairs when The Trust are no longer sure of their role or their future. Although they have a board member they have no influence. They can have their say but then must tow the party line. It is a great shame after the great effort put in over the years to get itself established and make a difference. Expect many to cancel their membership and we will see a slow painful death of well meaning, hard working organisation.

A bit of a drama queen response imo.

The trust are asking their membership questions, which they should more often IMO. The Trust needs to be more representative of their membership and the only way to do that is to ask the members views.

It may be that the membership decide that the Trust should continue with the representation on the club board, personally I think they should because it is easier to have a degree of influence from the inner sanctum rather than a few messages on a message board but again that is for the members to decide.

Maybe the decision will be to leave the board and have a more radical voice from the stands, either way it has to be right that the Trust Board are guided by their membership who they represent IMO. We could have both but it means upsetting King J from time to time

Quoted from Cloudy

A bit of a drama queen response imo.

The trust are asking their membership questions, which they should more often IMO. The Trust needs to be more representative of their membership and the only way to do that is to ask the members views.

It may be that the membership decide that the Trust should continue with the representation on the club board, personally I think they should because it is easier to have a degree of influence from the inner sanctum rather than a few messages on a message board but again that is for the members to decide.

Maybe the decision will be to leave the board and have a more radical voice from the stands, either way it has to be right that the Trust Board are guided by their membership who they represent IMO. We could have both but it means upsetting King J from time to time

Interesting timing for me. I think we've all been to meetings where we sit there and think that we're wasting our time and not influencing what's going on and the truth is that the opinions of those with finance involved will always outweigh those without.

Personally think that the Trust have done a pretty good job bearing that in mind.

In board meetings can we publish the minutes to avoid any confusion on who says what etc  would definitely clear up lots of issues

Quoted from oldun

This is a worrying state of affairs when The Trust are no longer sure of their role or their future. Although they have a board member they have no influence. They can have their say but then must tow the party line. It is a great shame after the great effort put in over the years to get itself established and make a difference. Expect many to cancel their membership and we will see a slow painful death of well meaning, hard working organisation.

I cannot think of anyone on the Trust Board who isn't aware that our role is to represent the views of our members supporters of GTFC.

As a long standing TRUST member I've just sent in my suggestion for the future. Hope I'm not a lone voice asking to consider the club becoming fan owned where the TRUST would really be able to determine where the club goes rather than accepting collective responsibility over decisions they don't agree with.

Quoted from jock dock tower

As a long standing TRUST member I've just sent in my suggestion for the future. Hope I'm not a lone voice asking to consider the club becoming fan owned where the TRUST would really be able to determine where the club goes rather than accepting collective responsibility over decisions they don't agree with.

It's all well and good hoping that would happen but, would you want to part of an organisation that took on the club's debt?

Quoted from barralad

I cannot think of anyone on the Trust Board who isn't aware that our role is to represent the views of our members supporters of GTFC.

I have got a question Ian,

Now what is it ?

I will give you 3 guesses  ;)

It's a very difficult position to be in, the chekatraid (forgive the spelling) is a fine example, I assume the majority of members dislike the current format but the trust member has to talk about it in any official capacity as if it's the best thing since sliced bread, obviously a conflict of interest.

The club hasn't listened to the views of the fans. It's time for the Trust to leave the board and provide vocal and open opposition.

I personally think the Trust are better positioned by having someone on the board than not,
At least  they will be able to put the fans view across to the board and hopefully persuade enough board members to  think like they do,
You will never win every argument but at least having a seat around the table to try change mindsets is a must.

The board always come to a unanimous decision,

If anybody disagrees with Fenty he makes them sit there until they come round to his way of thinking . ;D

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

I personally think the Trust are better positioned by having someone on the board than not,
At least  they will be able to put the fans view across to the board and hopefully persuade enough board members to  think like they do,
You will never win every argument but at least having a seat around the table to try change mindsets is a must.

Has the Trust (or any other board member for that matter) ever won any argument and influenced the club in a direction other than the one Fenty decides is the way to go?

I'm sorry, but what John wants, John gets.  

You can dicuss issues etc but when it comes to vote time his nodding yes men will push through whatever he decides.

The Checkatrade Trophy 'vote' is a prime example.  

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

I personally think the Trust are better positioned by having someone on the board than not,
At least  they will be able to put the fans view across to the board and hopefully persuade enough board members to  think like they do,
You will never win every argument but at least having a seat around the table to try change mindsets is a must.

They will never win a 'big argument' or be listened to.
Fenty knows the views of the fans regarding checkatrade but quite clearly doesn't give a sh1t. The board are his puppets, so in my opinion the Trust should admit defeat and have a louder voice from outside the board. I doubt John cares about wether the trust agree in the boardroom or not. He will (as always) get his own way. A trust outside the boardroom actively supporting a TOTAL BOYCOTT of the Checkatrade could be far more effective.

This is my reply...

I believe that the direction the Trust should be heading is one similar to that of the German football leagues, Fan ownership.  Therefore the long term plan of the trust has to be to take full ownership of GTFC.

At present the only motivation that GTFC Plc has is to make money, the fans have little or no consideration when GTFC makes decisions, highlighted by the 1st and 2nd vote of the inclusion of B Teams in the EFL trophy.  The club needs to make money, that goes without saying but the Fans should be the top priority on every single decision that is made within and that clearly is not the case. The current board administration of GTFC is a shambles and the constant PR member ups are extremely embarrassing.

So how do we achieve the end goal of our football club being owned by us?  I don't know!  The problem with GTFC is that John Fenty has the clubs by the balls with his "benign" loans, no one wants to invest because of these loans meaning until the capital can be obtained to release JF from his loans we are stuck with him.  No one will pay out his loans without also having shares in the club, JF won't let anyone have a majority share as that'll loosen his power, and he craves power, which results in no fresh investors.  Somehow the fans need to raise the capital to pay of JF loans in exchange for shares.

The Trust has to remain on the Board, JF needs to be held accountable to the fans.  We (GTFC) are an entertainment product for the fans, not a cash cow or toy to inflate JF's ego.

I was an original member of the Trust when it first came into existence as I believed it could have an influence and progress the club, yet we have only regressed under JF. I would be willing to join again once I believe the Trust has an influence on the Board, I don't mean this a slight on the Trust as I know the people involved put tremendous amounts of hard work and passion into the Trust and Club.

Mike Parker could not work with Fenty nor could he find any business man to take over as chairman while Fenty was still on the board,

So until he either snuffs it or gets fed up we are stuck with him.

Will Fenty return the 200k of shares to the Trust that he 'bargained for' back in 2012 if the Trust leave the board?

Quoted from Quagmire

Will Fenty return the 200k of shares to the Trust that he 'bargained for' back in 2012 if the Trust leave the board?

Doubt it because he bought a similar amount as part of the transfer iirc

An open letter to the Mariners Trust on Cod Almighty's site.

http://www.codalmighty.com/site/ca.php?article=6365

I think I agree with most of that.

The trust should be working towards removing the non chairman .

Quoted from lowerfindus

The trust should be working towards removing the non chairman .

Whilst probably an unrealistic aspiration, the truth is that GTFC is in a very stagnant position. We got promoted, yes, but after 3 relegations and what seemed like an eternity of non-league and, certainly from an infrastructure perspective, we now seem light years behind teams that were once our equal. The stadium project has gone quiet again and we're searching for scraps in the transfer market.

Off the pitch, we are renowned for strange decisions and a board without a chairman yet run like an autocracy. There may have been a logic behind the latest debacle with the Chronicle but, because of previous incidents, the non-chairman has had to issue yet another explanatory statement. We seem to muddle from one crisis to the next and, sooner or later, it needs a shake-up. We have a strange habit of making ourselves look very amateur.

Fan ownership in England doesn't work unless you have a rich benefactor behind the scenes.

None of the town fans I have met are capable of running a football club though some can (and already do) contribute hugely to the cause.

A piece about fan ownership...

https://pitchinvasion.net/fan-ownership-the-bundesliga-model/

Quoted from Southwark Mariner

An open letter to the Mariners Trust on Cod Almighty's site.

http://www.codalmighty.com/site/ca.php?article=6365

I think I agree with most of that.

BUT

Not the non league bit I hope.

Quoted from Civvy at last

They will never win a 'big argument' or be listened to.
Fenty knows the views of the fans regarding checkatrade but quite clearly doesn't give a sh1t. The board are his puppets, so in my opinion the Trust should admit defeat and have a louder voice from outside the board. I doubt John cares about wether the trust agree in the boardroom or not. He will (as always) get his own way. A trust outside the boardroom actively supporting a TOTAL BOYCOTT of the Checkatrade could be far more effective.

I emailed the trust myself this morning saying pretty much everything you said. viva la revolucion!

Always thought the aims of the Trust (MkI and MkII) were too limited. To my mind it should have never been anything less than complete ownership of the club. And the decision taken to gift 200,000 shares to Mr Fenty was a strategic error and a missed opportunity (yeah I know the arguments put forward for doing so, but they smacked of short-termist defeatism, and based on a lack of appreciation of the weakness of Mr Fenty's position - i.e. would he have risked losing most of his benign loans by forcing us into a position of administration, and if he did we could have rescued the club as Op.Promotion has shown).

I wouldn't chuck away the board position now though - too much money and hard work has gone into gaining it. Whilst Jon might be tied in what he can publicly say by collective responsibility, the rest of the organisation isn't.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Always thought the aims of the Trust (MkI and MkII) were too limited. To my mind it should have never been anything less than complete ownership of the club. And the decision taken to gift 200,000 shares to Mr Fenty was a strategic error and a missed opportunity (yeah I know the arguments put forward for doing so, but they smacked of short-termist defeatism, and based on a lack of appreciation of the weakness of Mr Fenty's position - i.e. would he have risked losing most of his benign loans by forcing us into a position of administration, and if he did we could have rescued the club as Op.Promotion has shown).

I wouldn't chuck away the board position now though - too much money and hard work has gone into gaining it. Whilst Jon might be tied in what he can publicly say by collective responsibility, the rest of the organisation isn't.

Don't think Fenty ever threatened to take us down the administration route did he?

IIRC this came to a head within a couple of weeks of the Trusts rebirth and they simply didn't have the knowledge or ability to take on the reigns. I don't think that has changed? I can't think of anyone with the capabilities either singularly or collectively with the ability to take on the running and funding of the football club.
Even if the club could be bought I simply don't see how it could be funded on an on going basis and cash flow managed.
Maybe the SW London think tank could take this forward?

The Trust would be on a hiding to nothing if they took over the club,

Not that would ever happen because they would have to find £3 million to buy out Fenty,

So we are stuck with him whether we like it or not,

So lets pull together for the club because we all have the club at our hearts including John,

UTM

Quoted from grimsby pete

The Trust would be on a hiding to nothing if they took over the club,

Not that would ever happen because they would have to find £3 million to buy out Fenty,

So we are stuck with him whether we like it or not,

So lets pull together for the club because we all have the club at our hearts including John,

UTM

Operation £3 million..... ;D   :)   :-/

And that's why the club is stagnant - we can't go forward with a £3 million debt and we can't expect a new investor to pay it off before he/she/they buy out the shares.

It should need paying off . 3 million is a fair price for abject failure

Quoted from Cloudy

Don't think Fenty ever threatened to take us down the administration route did he?

IIRC this came to a head within a couple of weeks of the Trusts rebirth and they simply didn't have the knowledge or ability to take on the reigns. I don't think that has changed? I can't think of anyone with the capabilities either singularly or collectively with the ability to take on the running and funding of the football club.
Even if the club could be bought I simply don't see how it could be funded on an on going basis and cash flow managed.
Maybe the SW London think tank could take this forward?

How do you know the Trust didn't have the ability? Plenty of other clubs' trusts have managed to rescue clubs in emergency situation, and kept them going in good shape. And JF said he would pull his financial support if he didn't get his way over being the major shareholder again. That could well have led to administration.

The club's managing to pay its way without any handouts now. The financial recovery has coincided with the Trust being involved in the running of the club. Took a while but its doing OK. The losses stemmed from mismanagement before.

Funding comes from ticket sales and commercial income. Why would it need handouts if it wasn't badly managed to start with? If you don't think people in the town have the ability to run a business turning over a couple of million a year you clearly haven't paid much attention to what's going on around you or in the town's history. JS Fenty is not the only man in NE Lincs capable of running a business.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

How do you know the Trust didn't have the ability? Plenty of other clubs' trusts have managed to rescue clubs in emergency situation, and kept them going in good shape. And JF said he would pull his financial support if he didn't get his way over being the major shareholder again. That could well have led to administration.

The club's managing to pay its way without any handouts now. The financial recovery has coincided with the Trust being involved in the running of the club. Took a while but its doing OK. The losses stemmed from mismanagement before.

Funding comes from ticket sales and commercial income. Why would it need handouts if it wasn't badly managed to start with? If you don't think people in the town have the ability to run a business turning over a couple of million a year you clearly haven't paid much attention to what's going on around you or in the town's history. JS Fenty is not the only man in NE Lincs capable of running a business badly.

You missed out the most important word

Anyway 6 days till the start of the season and all this will then disappear.

Slight update....

"Statement from the Mariners Trust

At a special meeting of the Mariners Trust, held last night, Chairman Terry Rudrum tendered his resignation from the position. This was accepted by the board.

Jon Wood will become Chairman of the Trust on an interim basis until the annual general meeting in October. Paul Savage will be Vice Chairman on the same basis.

The Trust would like to thank Terry for his tireless work, much of it behind the scenes, and the passion he has shown for the football club.

Jon Wood said: "To ensure continuity within the Trust I am proud to take on the role of Chairman on an interim basis. We have started a consultation process with members of the Trust and we would like to invite fans, both members and non-members, to attend a special meeting prior to the Yeovil game at 11am on Saturday, 16 September. This will be an open forum giving supporters the opportunity to set the agenda for how we all take the Trust forward together."

Further details for the process of submitting questions will be announced in due course."

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Anyway 6 days till the start of the season and all this will then disappear.

Yes all will be rosy from August 5th. There'll be no reason to be concerned about how the club is run, who runs it, what say fans have in the club. It'll all disappear for 9 months.

Quoted from Southwark Mariner

Slight update....

"Statement from the Mariners Trust

At a special meeting of the Mariners Trust, held last night, Chairman Terry Rudrum tendered his resignation from the position. This was accepted by the board.

Jon Wood will become Chairman of the Trust on an interim basis until the annual general meeting in October. Paul Savage will be Vice Chairman on the same basis.

The Trust would like to thank Terry for his tireless work, much of it behind the scenes, and the passion he has shown for the football club.

Jon Wood said: "To ensure continuity within the Trust I am proud to take on the role of Chairman on an interim basis. We have started a consultation process with members of the Trust and we would like to invite fans, both members and non-members, to attend a special meeting prior to the Yeovil game at 11am on Saturday, 16 September. This will be an open forum giving supporters the opportunity to set the agenda for how we all take the Trust forward together."

Further details for the process of submitting questions will be announced in due course."

Doesn't give a reason for the resignation but safe to assume it was off the back of him calling a supporter "twisted" on Twitter. Jumped before he was pushed I suspect. Hopefully the next chairman isn't one of Fenty's pals!

I have never believed that the presence of a Trust member on the board carried any weight whatsoever - Fenty will always get his way. In fact it would hurt the board far more if the Trust representative left as they would have no one to make the tea and sharpen the pencils.