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Posted by: Gabriel, March 16, 2017, 6:42pm
Mariners,

Written up some neutral thoughts ahead of your game at Crawley and the future for both clubs - http://www.TheFootbalLab.co.uk/2017/grimsby-v-crawley-the-summer-ahead/

Kept a fair few clean sheets lately but not many goals - Bogle's exit the key reason or a lack of invention behind the attacking play?

All the best for the rest of the season and beyond.
Posted by: Mariner_09, March 16, 2017, 7:13pm; Reply: 1
Full of bright ideas, seen some great performances at Plymouth, Carlisle and at home to Mansfield but equally some dire ones at Morecambe, Stevenage and most notably Crewe.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, March 16, 2017, 10:13pm; Reply: 2
A fair article Gabriel. At least as far as Grimsby are concerned. Don't know enough about Crawley.
Posted by: Gabriel, March 17, 2017, 7:23am; Reply: 3
Quoted from Mariner_09
Full of bright ideas, seen some great performances at Plymouth, Carlisle and at home to Mansfield but equally some dire ones at Morecambe, Stevenage and most notably Crewe.


I was actually in the away end for the Crewe game, that first half was remarkable. Davies kept pushing up but didn't have the pace to get back, nobody was covering behind him. Gave them far too much space.
Posted by: OllieGTFC, March 17, 2017, 10:45am; Reply: 4
For me MB hasn't done to bad, yes he has made some silly changes and quite probably we could of been in the play offs who knows if he didn't make the changes he has, this is rebuilding again for us but next season I don't think he will have a excuse for performances he got most of the players he wants, possible 5-6 incomings in the summer clearly a few being shipped out, I honestly think we are in good hands with MB but time will tell, let's just sit back and enjoy the ride (maybe) UTM ⚪️⚫️
Posted by: wiggers, March 17, 2017, 12:10pm; Reply: 5
Jury still out for me, I hope he succeeds as this will mean Town are succeeding, but if I'm being honest with myself I don't think he will be manager come Christmas........just my opinion. UTM's
Posted by: Garth, March 17, 2017, 12:15pm; Reply: 6
Doesn't see the obvious for me, depends how next season pans out, bottom mid table, worrying our guts out won't be acceptable.
Until then jury's still out, I want him to succeed. We shall see.
Posted by: Maringer, March 17, 2017, 12:25pm; Reply: 7
I've not been very impressed with Bignot thus far. For me, we've seen too many changes at the club too fast with little obvious pattern of play on show as yet and I think a gradual building process would have been more successful/sensible than the wholesale turnover of players.

That said, if Bogle hadn't departed at the end of January, I expect we would have a good few more points on the board and we might well be in or on the verge of a play-off place. The manager doesn't have control of everything that goes on and replacing Bogle's goals would have been nigh on impossible whoever was in charge.
Posted by: TownSNAFU5, March 17, 2017, 12:36pm; Reply: 8
Early days.  Look how long Hurst had to get it right?  

A new manager needs time to bring-in his own players and introduce new systems.  Look how Fergie struggled at the beginning at Man U.
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 17, 2017, 12:43pm; Reply: 9
Five years of Hurst, five months of Bignot with mostly someone else's team and having lost the leading scorer - very hard to compare, need to evaluate in October/November next season, not now.
Posted by: ginnywings, March 17, 2017, 12:43pm; Reply: 10
Think the jury is out on any new manager until a certain period of time has passed, and for me that will be well into next season. Despite all the changes, we are still short in certain areas and that limits what we can do formation wise. We were lacking on the left when he came in and we still are, so i expect that to be addressed in the summer. The right side wasn't bursting with talent either with steady eddie Chambers and hit and miss Bolarinwa. The results have held up despite losing Bogle and the team being altered dramatically, so i hope to see what for me is a long term strategy, starting to pay off as the players bond and gain experience. The circumstances of Bignots appointment were not the norm with him coming into a newly promoted side and fans full of hope and expectation. It's a risky strategy doing what he has done and some fans are finding it hard to swallow but ultimately, all will be forgiven if the team starts to click. Whether it does or not remains to be seen, but i'm fairly happy with where were are at right now.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 17, 2017, 1:20pm; Reply: 11
From his appointment up until now he's been busy and my views are ..........

He came in and talked about how he wanted to play which therefore set up a certain expectation from the off. Whether (spelling?) or not this is right will remain to be seen.

The media, certainly put himself out there, Whether or not this is right will remain to be seen.

With the squad changes he has gone for revolution versus evolution, I would have preferred the latter but just because it does not float my boat then it does not mean that it's wrong. Personally I am a bit concerned about the current wage budget especially with home attendances dropping a little. Whether or not this is right will remain to be seen.

The signings, overall despite the lack of experience are a good mix of talent and potential but with some of the potential comes risk on will they or won't they be good enough, remember despite the Omar money we still have not got a big budget so is this is the right strategy? Whether or not this is right will remain to be seen.

The infrastructure, some good stuff started and it all needs to be seen through to deliver benefit. The appointment of Gary Whilde could be good in terms of scouting talent a positive thing........guess what?  Whether or not this is right will remain to be seen.

The shape & selection to set up to get a result is the area I am most concerned about as we have tried lots of things and we need stability and a pattern, can Marcus find this? Whether or not this is right will remain to be seen.

Man management, I have included it but as most of us are not close to the camp are we really qualified to comment? I doubt it. However externally he looks to have discarded/disengaged a few with his changes, signings and press activity, well being a manager is not a popularity contest in any sector, whether or not this is right will remain to be seen.

So overall there is a lot that "remains to be seen" if I was a manager I don't think I would have started so many strands of activity at once but I'm not Marcus is and thus will get my backing until Oct/Nov when he has had a good crack at things, he has some resources we just need to give him time.    

I like legitimate people with big hearts I think Marcus falls into that category and would love to see him do well but I will retain my right to give an opinion game by game regardless of result.
Posted by: Tommy, March 17, 2017, 1:24pm; Reply: 12
Bignot took over mid season with us in midtable form. Yes we were in the play-offs at some stage but IMO we weren't going to maintain that and were even in inconsistent form to somehow get to that position. Points/results wise, Bignot's record is about the same as Hurst's this season. And considering we lost Bogle that is not bad going.

So yes, we've stood still under Bignot so far rather than going forwards or backwards, but it's only half a season into his reign. How much patience do we have, and how quickly are we now demanding progress all of a sudden?

In Scott and Hurst's first full season in charge we finished 11th in the conference. The exact same position we finished the season before (half under Woods and half under H&S). And I don't remember so many people being against the managers then for lack of progress as there are now, and this is during the same season.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, March 17, 2017, 2:21pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from Tommy
Bignot took over mid season with us in midtable form. Yes we were in the play-offs at some stage but IMO we weren't going to maintain that and were even in inconsistent form to somehow get to that position. Points/results wise, Bignot's record is about the same as Hurst's this season. And considering we lost Bogle that is not bad going.

So yes, we've stood still under Bignot so far rather than going forwards or backwards, but it's only half a season into his reign. How much patience do we have, and how quickly are we now demanding progress all of a sudden?

In Scott and Hurst's first full season in charge we finished 11th in the conference. The exact same position we finished the season before (half under Woods and half under H&S). And I don't remember so many people being against the managers then for lack of progress as there are now, and this is during the same season.


Different circumstances back then obviously. Bignot took over club on the up, back in the league, settled team, gates up, some money to spend in the window, and with a fantastic opportunity to tweak things to give us another great season. It hasn't really happened and we are a bit further back than when he started, but he at least has the opportunity to get it right over the summer and into next season. If he is still shooting from the hip next season, and we are not making the progress we hope, then he knows he will be on borrowed time. That is just the way it is in football; you have to produce a winning team or you are in danger.    
Posted by: grimsby pete, March 17, 2017, 2:39pm; Reply: 14
We have to remember that Marcus is new to league management and is learning all the time

I feel he took on too much too soon but it might pay off next season when we have a settled squad coming in for pre season training,

I think it would only be fair to judge him in the new year next season,

By then we will be in the play off position looking good for promotion, (  I hope )

With the players he has already brought in we will not need the usual 12 new signings
Posted by: Barrattstander, March 17, 2017, 2:58pm; Reply: 15


Different circumstances back then obviously. Bignot took over club on the up, back in the league, settled team, gates up, some money to spend in the window, and with a fantastic opportunity to tweak things to give us another great season. It hasn't really happened and we are a bit further back than when he started, but he at least has the opportunity to get it right over the summer and into next season. If he is still shooting from the hip next season, and we are not making the progress we hope, then he knows he will be on borrowed time. That is just the way it is in football; you have to produce a winning team or you are in danger.    


Settled team!!!!!
I'm not having that !!!
Beginning the season with only four players who started the play-off final and then picking 21 different players to start games before he slunked off suggests to me that the previous manager was not leaving behind a settled team.
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 17, 2017, 3:10pm; Reply: 16


Different circumstances back then obviously. Bignot took over club on the up, back in the league, settled team, gates up, some money to spend in the window, and with a fantastic opportunity to tweak things to give us another great season. It hasn't really happened and we are a bit further back than when he started, but he at least has the opportunity to get it right over the summer and into next season. If he is still shooting from the hip next season, and we are not making the progress we hope, then he knows he will be on borrowed time. That is just the way it is in football; you have to produce a winning team or you are in danger.    


We are a bit further back in the goalscoring department but our midfield looks potentially far better.
Posted by: ginnywings, March 17, 2017, 3:40pm; Reply: 17
Quoted from Barrattstander


Settled team!!!!!
I'm not having that !!!
Beginning the season with only four players who started the play-off final and then picking 21 different players to start games before he slunked off suggests to me that the previous manager was not leaving behind a settled team.


Agreed, there seems to be this perception that we were some well oiled machine and Bignot took a big hammer to it. Hurst brought in Tuton, another clone of the loan signing from the previous season, who didn't look like scoring either. Our form pre and post Bignot has been erratic and the fact we were 7th under Hurst is just early season jostling when you can go up and down the league several places with a win or a loss. Hurst also had the benefit of Bogle scoring regularly, so i don't think Bignot is doing too badly myself as points gained per game are holding steady and we were safe with ten games of the season left.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, March 17, 2017, 3:55pm; Reply: 18
I think to some it feels worse because when we've lost it's often been pretty heavily.
Posted by: GrimRob, March 17, 2017, 3:55pm; Reply: 19
People say managers should be given time but the average expectancy of a manager is just over 1 year, about 1.5 years in League 2 according to this article.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11688/9875915/average-tenure-of-managers-in-england-just-1-23-years

That's the average of course, some many managers last much less than a year. They patently are not given time at most clubs. I think that's the reason why MB made so many changes when he first arrived. Any other job you'd stick with the team around you for the first few months but football managers do not get that time. In football you have to make a very quick impression or you'll be out of a job. I really hope we stick with him for at least most of next season otherwise we'll be in the same position again where someone else wants to get rid of all the last guy's players!
Posted by: Grimbiggs, March 17, 2017, 9:07pm; Reply: 20
i'm still undecided, but prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt....he inherited a mediocre midfield, and lost our only goalscorer in January, so the backend of this season was always going to be difficult... i think it's only fair that his signings and management ability, are really seriously judged next season.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 17, 2017, 9:23pm; Reply: 21
Thought his Press Conference today was really good and illustrates how much of a thinker Marcus is and evidently he has a very clear plan on where he wants us to be come August.
Posted by: headingly_mariner, March 17, 2017, 9:27pm; Reply: 22
Early days, but for me he talks a good game but I've yet to see anything that suggests he can improve us. Made a lot of changes to the playing squad and imo he's made us worse. I can't see him being in charge by Christmas. Hopefully I'm wrong and it really clicks.
Posted by: Mariner_09, March 17, 2017, 9:29pm; Reply: 23
Also said that Dan Jones is a big part of his plans next season, are we going to release anyone? The side needs some definite upgrades in places, especially out wide and up front and also some decent backup defensively. Davies seems to be this season's Monkhouse, just that one season too many when his legs eventually went.
Posted by: Mariner93er, March 17, 2017, 9:33pm; Reply: 24
I think he's definitely improved us. For a start, we're actually scoring without bogle in the team. We may look clueless at times, but let's remember that before Hurst left we were really struggling to score and were totally dependent on bogle. Something bignot has not benefited from.
Posted by: GrimRob, March 17, 2017, 10:42pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from Mariner93er
I think he's definitely improved us. For a start, we're actually scoring without bogle in the team. We may look clueless at times, but let's remember that before Hurst left we were really struggling to score and were totally dependent on bogle. Something bignot has not benefited from.


Bogle can't score if he's not on the pitch!
Posted by: Cloudy, March 17, 2017, 10:42pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from Mariner93er
I think he's definitely improved us. For a start, we're actually scoring without bogle in the team. We may look clueless at times, but let's remember that before Hurst left we were really struggling to score and were totally dependent on bogle. Something bignot has not benefited from.


Bogle scored more goals for us under Bignot than he did under Hurst this season
Posted by: Mariner93er, March 17, 2017, 11:21pm; Reply: 27
Yes, but that was mainly under the team he ingerited. Since signing his own players, the goals have spread out. Obviously we had to find another route to goal without bogle, but if Hurst was still in charge and we lost bogle, the team he had would be really struggling.
Posted by: Cloudy, March 18, 2017, 8:06am; Reply: 28
Quoted from Mariner93er
Yes, but that was mainly under the team he ingerited. Since signing his own players, the goals have spread out. Obviously we had to find another route to goal without bogle, but if Hurst was still in charge and we lost bogle, the team he had would be really struggling.


What are Tonight's lottery numbers!
Posted by: The Grim Reaper, March 18, 2017, 11:04am; Reply: 29
I do enjoy his press conferences though. He talks a lot of sense and is very forward thinking IMHO.

Posted by: Tangerine Chris, March 18, 2017, 11:19am; Reply: 30
Quoted from The Grim Reaper
I do enjoy his press conferences though. He talks a lot of sense and is very forward thinking IMHO.



He always talks the talk, but seldom walks the walk.  Still undecided on him

Posted by: mariner83, March 18, 2017, 11:37am; Reply: 31
http://www.theleaguepaper.com/featured/7631/profile-the-career-of-grimsby-town-boss-marcus-bignot/
Posted by: rancido, March 18, 2017, 12:01pm; Reply: 32
Quoted from mariner83



That is a very informative article and probably more of an insight into his style of management than a lot of us fans realised.
Posted by: Tommy, March 18, 2017, 12:16pm; Reply: 33
Quoted from Tangerine Chris


He always talks the talk, but seldom walks the walk.  Still undecided on him



With a similar record under both this season, Bignot is "walking the walk" as much as Hurst did.

Does Bignot suffer from openly aiming high? Which is funny because Hurst was often criticised on here for not being bold and ambitious enough.

Do people expect greater results from MB than they did under PH because Bignot talks us up in the press?
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 18, 2017, 12:22pm; Reply: 34
Quoted from Tommy


With a similar record under both this season, Bignot is "walking the walk" as much as Hurst did.

Does Bignot suffer from openly aiming high? Which is funny because Hurst was often criticised on here for not being bold and ambitious enough.

Do people expect greater results from MB than they did under PH because Bignot talks us up in the press?


Ultimately MB will achieve success if the board and the fans back him in the way he wants. This unrealistic attitude of expecting us to win every week needs to be dampened down by understanding how far the club had fallen behind off the field as well as on it.
Posted by: oldun, March 18, 2017, 1:11pm; Reply: 35
All fans should read that. I did not realise how far back he worked with Micky Moore. We probably should LISTEN to what he says and drop the bullshit accusations. He has more knowledge than most of us.
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 18, 2017, 1:18pm; Reply: 36
Quoted from oldun
All fans should read that. I did not realise how far back he worked with Micky Moore. We probably should LISTEN to what he says and drop the bullshit accusations. He has more knowledge than most of us.


Absolutely. I think if MB is guilty of anything then it may be over thinking things which can't be said of most of us who post on here  :o
Posted by: Cloudy, March 19, 2017, 9:14am; Reply: 37
Quoted from The Old Codger


Ultimately MB will achieve success if the board and the fans back him in the way he wants. This unrealistic attitude of expecting us to win every week needs to be dampened down by understanding how far the club had fallen behind off the field as well as on it.


Who expects us to win every week? I haven't seen any poster stating this. Seems you are making things up again to suit!

It must be brilliant in your Ivory Tower with your understanding of bleeding everything!!!!
Posted by: Rick12, March 19, 2017, 9:20am; Reply: 38
Quoted from The Old Codger


Ultimately MB will achieve success if the board and the fans back him in the way he wants. This unrealistic attitude of expecting us to win every week needs to be dampened down by understanding how far the club had fallen behind off the field as well as on it.
I have a good feeling about MB more so than I did under Hurst.Just wish some fans like you have said could be stop being so childish and give him time.Everything that requires success takes time and there will be some hiccups along the way Iam sure  but for me have a feeling that this is a very decent appointment and will be more so than Hurst ever was if we would have been here still at the helm long term
Posted by: Mrs Doyle, March 19, 2017, 10:01am; Reply: 39
To be fair Hurst was given a long time to get us up and a lot would say too long a time.

On that basis Bignot should be given at least a full season to try and get HIS team stabilised to try HIS style.
Posted by: oldun, March 19, 2017, 10:06am; Reply: 40
I seem to remember the Hurst out banner on the fly over, a few weeks before we achieved promotion. Things can turn fairly quickly.
Posted by: A.l.f., March 19, 2017, 10:17am; Reply: 41
Quoted from mariner83


After reading that - i think we would all be wise to give him time as it sounds like once the players get it right on the field as to what he wants, we will all see that patience pays off.
We have a few games to grasp it before next season - lets hope  that exciting football is around the corner, as its clear that MB wants to be a winner.
Posted by: forza ivano, March 19, 2017, 10:29am; Reply: 42
Very interesting article.
Posted by: oldun, March 19, 2017, 10:40am; Reply: 43
Rarely is instant success achieved. Non of the players Marcus has brought in have league experience, and probably more will arrive in the summer, so unlikely to be instant hits. However, his philosophy and skill seems to be developing players and in this respect he has a good record. Can he do that under pressure from fans hungry for success? That is the question. I think most fans can see potential in all these players, so we may have to live with another season of uncertainty before assessing whether the plan is working. This may be a two or three year project. Some will not like and want results earlier but if you are building something you cannot stop at the foundation stage. It may be helpful if Marcus and the club clarify what the project looks like, what we are trying to build and in what time scale so expectations are realistic.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 19, 2017, 10:48am; Reply: 44
Quoted from The Old Codger


Read it again this morning, he seems like a man with a plan. There was a 10 minute spell yesterday when the movement off the ball was quite sublime.



And that was with 2 CMs in wide positions, if we can develop Bolarinwa's game or sign 2 wide players with decent 1st touches and the ability to get the ball into the box we will be on track I reckon.

We have the makings of a good squad and for the first time in ages after the sale of Omar no doubt still some funds to add to it in the summer, add to that a manager who knows how to build things actually that's not a bad scenario for a club that has just come up after 6 years in tin pot.  

Clearly a lot of work to do on firstly retaining the quality that's out of contract, engineering departures and adding the right talent but I am sure Marcus, Mickey and Gary Whilde have a plan for that as wel and will have already started on it..

Take the last 4 seasons we have been in a league where Newport, Mansfield, Cambridge, Luton, Barnet, Brizzle, Cheltenham and ourselves have come up Brizzle have progressed with a bucket of Arab money but the rest are still in L2. Luton could go up Newport are doomed and Cheltenham still need to be careful so I reckon that proves unless something substantial changes at your club it takes a few seasons to come up and become truly competitive.  
Posted by: headingly_mariner, March 19, 2017, 12:04pm; Reply: 45
Quoted from The Old Codger


Ultimately MB will achieve success if the board and the fans back him in the way he wants. This unrealistic attitude of expecting us to win every week needs to be dampened down by understanding how far the club had fallen behind off the field as well as on it.


He might not. I don't think anyone expects us to win every week, I just think there is some concern over the performances. I'm not convinced he will be a success.
Posted by: forza ivano, March 19, 2017, 12:25pm; Reply: 46
Quoted from headingly_mariner


He might not. I don't think anyone expects us to win every week, I just think there is some concern over the performances. I'm not convinced he will be a success.


I can understand that headingly, which is where oldun makes a very good point. Mb could do himself a lot of good by explaining his plan and what he is trying to achieve and how he's going about it
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 19, 2017, 12:40pm; Reply: 47
Quoted from headingly_mariner


He might not. I don't think anyone expects us to win every week, I just think there is some concern over the performances. I'm not convinced he will be a success.


Understand you HM - I just think that there are many who are 'over expecting'. We just got out of the morass that is the Conference, Cheltenham cruised out and are now fighting relegation - we ought to be thankful that isn't us.
Posted by: grimsby pete, March 19, 2017, 12:52pm; Reply: 48
When we first appointed Alan Buckley his  first season was average,

Then we took off and ended up in the now championship,

I feel under Marcus we just might see the same,

If we all only had a little patience .
Posted by: psgmariner, March 19, 2017, 1:33pm; Reply: 49
Quoted from mariner83


Thanks posting, it's an interesting read despite one of the worst openers I have ever read!

THESE days, Karen Carney is an international star of women’s football, capped more than 100 times for England with more trophies than a branch of Timpsons.

Posted by: The Old Codger, March 19, 2017, 2:25pm; Reply: 50
Quoted from oldun
I seem to remember the Hurst out banner on the fly over, a few weeks before we achieved promotion. Things can turn fairly quickly.


Just seen this on Shrews forum regarding PH substitutions - he hasn't changed!

Mellon and Turner used to criticised for subbing by numbers - I'm wondering if Hurst does the same thing. In the last two games we've waited until 70 min mark for a change when arguably it needed making 15 mins earlier. Certainly last night we needed to be a bit more proactive.

Posted by: buckstown, March 19, 2017, 2:56pm; Reply: 51
I think Headingly has hit the nail on the head. In my opinion there are very few genuine Town fans who want MB out, you have to give people time. I'm not particularly impressed at the moment and I can handle defeats no problem. Its the manner of some of the performances that have alarms ringing for me.
I've yet to see a just back thread where most people thought we performed reasonably well for 90 mins and the games I've seen we've been very mediocre.
I'm in favour of continuity but maybe he could help me to understand the strategy
Posted by: Cloudy, March 19, 2017, 3:14pm; Reply: 52
Quoted from buckstown
I think Headingly has hit the nail on the head. In my opinion there are very few genuine Town fans who want MB out, you have to give people time. I'm not particularly impressed at the moment and I can handle defeats no problem. Its the manner of some of the performances that have alarms ringing for me.
I've yet to see a just back thread where most people thought we performed reasonably well for 90 mins and the games I've seen we've been very mediocre.
I'm in favour of continuity but maybe he could help me to understand the strategy


Exactly. Plymouth away was the most complete performance I have seen. Bignots 1st away game. Lots more o

f changes since then but no big strides forward as yet
Posted by: headingly_mariner, March 19, 2017, 4:48pm; Reply: 53
Quoted from The Old Codger


Just seen this on Shrews forum regarding PH substitutions - he hasn't changed!

Mellon and Turner used to criticised for subbing by numbers - I'm wondering if Hurst does the same thing. In the last two games we've waited until 70 min mark for a change when arguably it needed making 15 mins earlier. Certainly last night we needed to be a bit more proactive.



How many points off safety were they when he took charge?
Posted by: Lincoln Mariner 56, March 19, 2017, 4:52pm; Reply: 54
Think the article is interesting from two factors that will be of vital importance to the future of GTFC:
1) the clear emphasis he puts on building an infrastructure that is financially sustainable
2) the high regard he appears to held in as a coach.

The former is something he is already trying to put in place and will obviously be a few seasons before the club reaps any real benefits from it.

The latter is where we are yet to see any great evidence of given the disjointed performances to date. However, like others have remarked some publicity in relation to the project in hand and timescale would maybe help alleviate some of the more critical although for some instant success, like coffee, is a necessity. After 50 plus years watching town I am happy to be patient but would like to see more attacking flair in the meantime and next season will obviously tell us much more.

One final comment coming home from the match yesterday I switched to BBC Lincs to see if more earache was coming my way re the Chimps to hear Grantham's manager being interviewed and speaking very highly of our Harry so we could have a good young un on the way through the ranks, lets hope so.
Posted by: Stranger in the Park, March 20, 2017, 11:53am; Reply: 55
I admit I am not a fan of PB.Why? because I go to BP to be entertained yet all I see 90% of the time is disjointed play by a bunch of strangers and at the end have to suffer PB's glib excuses. After decimating an arguably entertaining winning team ,Hurst made quite a few duff buys yet we more than managed to maintain an upper position that flattered us.Given that basis the law of averages dictates that we would at least maintain our status in the league.Despite PB having been a big fish in a little pond before arriving at BP, and bringing in a load of new players,he has not managed to at least play cohesive football on the pitch- which I believe is what most of us want to see.Bogle leaving is the biggest factor in our goal drought but losing Amond as well at the end of last season was also a vital factor in what I see as a decline,after all they were the best pairing up front Town has seen in many seasons. Fourth division football has always been dire and I believe it will take someone with experience to get us out,not someone who cannot maintain a consistency of play.To date I've seen nothing that gives me confidence that he can move us forward. 15 losses and 9 draws already is not entertainment and will lower the attendances for sure.  
Posted by: Barrattstander, March 20, 2017, 12:10pm; Reply: 56
I admit I am not a fan of PB.Why? because I go to BP to be entertained yet all I see 90% of the time is disjointed play by a bunch of strangers and at the end have to suffer PB's glib excuses. After decimating an arguably entertaining winning team ,Hurst made quite a few duff buys yet we more than managed to maintain an upper position that flattered us.Given that basis the law of averages dictates that we would at least maintain our status in the league.Despite PB having been a big fish in a little pond before arriving at BP, and bringing in a load of new players,he has not managed to at least play cohesive football on the pitch- which I believe is what most of us want to see.Bogle leaving is the biggest factor in our goal drought but losing Amond as well at the end of last season was also a vital factor in what I see as a decline,after all they were the best pairing up front Town has seen in many seasons. Fourth division football has always been dire and I believe it will take someone with experience to get us out,not someone who cannot maintain a consistency of play.To date I've seen nothing that gives me confidence that he can move us forward. 15 losses and 9 draws already is not entertainment and will lower the attendances for sure.  


Who's PB ??

If you mean Marcus Bignot then you need to getyourfactsright, so to speak.
After exactly half a season in charge his record is
               P.    W.    D.    L.    F.     A.    Pts
              23.   8.     6.     9.    27.   29.    30


Posted by: Youngy, March 20, 2017, 12:33pm; Reply: 57
Quoted from Barrattstander


Who's PB ??

If you mean Marcus Bignot then you need to getyourfactsright, so to speak.
After exactly half a season in charge his record is
               P.    W.    D.    L.    F.     A.    Pts
              23.   8.     6.     9.    27.   29.    30




This sums it up for me, it's a mid-table record after half a season, could be better, could be worse. There is deffinate room for improvement but also no evidence to hit the panic buttons. It's a record that deserves a pre season that enables him to trim down the squad, bring in a couple more new players and move forward from there.

Strangers in the park - You mentioned about going to BP and wanting to be entertained? Notts County? Accrington? Carlisle? Mansfield? I thought they were all pretty entertaining, espicially the later.

Also what's Almond and Bogle going got to do with Bignott? He wasn't even here for the first and he didn't have a say on the second
Posted by: diehardmariner, March 20, 2017, 12:35pm; Reply: 58
I admit I am not a fan of PB.Why? because I go to BP to be entertained yet all I see 90% of the time is disjointed play by a bunch of strangers and at the end have to suffer PB's glib excuses. After decimating an arguably entertaining winning team ,Hurst made quite a few duff buys yet we more than managed to maintain an upper position that flattered us.Given that basis the law of averages dictates that we would at least maintain our status in the league.Despite PB having been a big fish in a little pond before arriving at BP, and bringing in a load of new players,he has not managed to at least play cohesive football on the pitch- which I believe is what most of us want to see.Bogle leaving is the biggest factor in our goal drought but losing Amond as well at the end of last season was also a vital factor in what I see as a decline,after all they were the best pairing up front Town has seen in many seasons. Fourth division football has always been dire and I believe it will take someone with experience to get us out,not someone who cannot maintain a consistency of play.To date I've seen nothing that gives me confidence that he can move us forward. 15 losses and 9 draws already is not entertainment and will lower the attendances for sure.  


I think the entertaining element is very arguable.

I'm not saying we're high octane, breathless entertainment under Bignot but let's not forget that we were generally dull as ditchwater for the vast majority of Paul Hurst's reign here.  

Rightly or wrongly, Bignot is having a mid-season during an actual season.  Thankfully we've enough quality to do this without running the risk of relegation.  I am disappointed with how things look to be shaping up and in all honesty I don't see a lot of progress made in terms of tactics and shape, but I can see that the players Bignot has brought in are an upgrade.  Osborne and Jones look like they will be quality moving forward and I'm quite excited to see them with a full pre-season behind them.

We're going nowhere fast this season.  Midtable obscurity is something we would all have taken in July but I can understand, often share, the frustration of such.   Next season is when we can make a fair judgement on Bignot.   Until then there's very little point.
Posted by: Stranger in the Park, March 20, 2017, 1:18pm; Reply: 59
Ok typo accepted I did mean MB not PB. Statistics were straight off the BBC for the whole season but highlight either way our lack of wins -especially at home!. If there was any real evidence that things really have improved I would also say he is ok BUT if our poor showing goes on without improvement and yet another rebuilding exercise has to take place then you might as well be complacent about next season as well and just expect  consolidation.If we have any ambition to progress then please show it ON THE PITCH - not in post match spin.  
Posted by: lowerfindus, March 20, 2017, 2:00pm; Reply: 60
Ok typo accepted I did mean MB not PB. Statistics were straight off the BBC for the whole season but highlight either way our lack of wins -especially at home!. If there was any real evidence that things really have improved I would also say he is ok BUT if our poor showing goes on without improvement and yet another rebuilding exercise has to take place then you might as well be complacent about next season as well and just expect  consolidation.If we have any ambition to progress then please show it ON THE PITCH - not in post match spin.  


Hurst reign was full of poor home performances and lack of home wins. Name a Town manager who has a good home record??? Id suggest we are going back a few years to find one.

PH was dull, his teams were dull and they performed better away from home than at home. The guy had 5 years and never said a word that was interesting and never went out of his way to create any bond or understanding with the supporters.

Perhaps we should be giving MB plenty of time, say 5 years of underachievement?? Like his predecessor.
Posted by: oldun, March 20, 2017, 2:24pm; Reply: 61
Two more seasons would reasonable for him to try and build a side challenging for promotion. If it happens next season and we are near the play offs that would be excellent. Voice of reason
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 20, 2017, 2:30pm; Reply: 62
Not sure that you can compare Paul Hurst with Marcus Bignot, one had time but mostly lacked good players the other has/will have good players but lacks time.

We played functional non league football when we where in non league which is arguably the best way to get out of it so to expect us just to suddenly click into an entertaining side with a high win ratio is unrealistic regardless of who the manager is.    

I must admit I am a bit perplexed what we are doing on the pitch at this point in time but can understand what we are trying to do off it which once completed should deliver results.

When Hurst left we had options,

1. Break the bank and go for a reasonably well known name who was out of work, o.k. but this possibly would have brought short term success until a bigger club came calling

2. Appoint an "old lag" who has had more clubs than Rory McIlroy but never really done anything apart from say the off PO final failure.

3 Go foreign, no chance!!

4. Appoint a young ambitious manager who has demonstrated he knows how to build clubs/teams over reasonable time and understands the benefit from a robust infrastructure, something due to financial constraints had been missing for years.

If I was JF sat there at the end of October after 6 seasons in tin pot and 3 months back in the FL I'd have gone for option 4 every time.

Give Marcus time & support he's clearly working hard and deserves nothing less for the time being.  
  
Posted by: oldun, March 20, 2017, 2:33pm; Reply: 63
Quoted from HertsGTFC
Not sure that you can compare Paul Hurst with Marcus Bignot, one had time but mostly lacked good players the other has/will have good players but lacks time.

We played functional non league football when we where in non league which is arguably the best way to get out of it so to expect us just to suddenly click into an entertaining side with a high win ratio is unrealistic regardless of who the manager is.    

I must admit I am a bit perplexed what we are doing on the pitch at this point in time but can understand what we are trying to do off it which once completed should deliver results.

When Hurst left we had options,

1. Break the bank and go for a reasonably well known name who was out of work, o.k. but this possibly would have brought short term success until a bigger club came calling

2. Appoint an "old lag" who has had more clubs than Rory McIlroy but never really done anything apart from say the off PO final failure.

3 Go foreign, no chance!!

4. Appoint a young ambitious manager who has demonstrated he knows how to build clubs/teams over reasonable time and understands the benefit from a robust infrastructure, something due to financial constraints had been missing for years.

If I was JF sat there at the end of October after 6 seasons in tin pot and 3 months back in the FL I'd have gone for option 3 every time.

Give Marcus time & support he's clearly working hard and deserves nothing less for the time being.  
  

I think you mean option 4
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 20, 2017, 2:36pm; Reply: 64
Quoted from oldun

I think you mean option 4


Oops......... thanks for pointing out, OP changed.

Posted by: The Old Codger, March 20, 2017, 4:26pm; Reply: 65
I admit I am not a fan of PB.Why? because I go to BP to be entertained yet all I see 90% of the time is disjointed play by a bunch of strangers and at the end have to suffer PB's glib excuses. After decimating an arguably entertaining winning team ,Hurst made quite a few duff buys yet we more than managed to maintain an upper position that flattered us.Given that basis the law of averages dictates that we would at least maintain our status in the league.Despite PB having been a big fish in a little pond before arriving at BP, and bringing in a load of new players,he has not managed to at least play cohesive football on the pitch- which I believe is what most of us want to see.Bogle leaving is the biggest factor in our goal drought but losing Amond as well at the end of last season was also a vital factor in what I see as a decline,after all they were the best pairing up front Town has seen in many seasons. Fourth division football has always been dire and I believe it will take someone with experience to get us out,not someone who cannot maintain a consistency of play.To date I've seen nothing that gives me confidence that he can move us forward. 15 losses and 9 draws already is not entertainment and will lower the attendances for sure.  


Yep, those home performances against Orient, Crewe, Cheltenham and Hartlepool were real rippers just like some of the other turgid crap served up at home last season which ultimately alienated the home fans and the manager who had 5 years at the helm of a club that was talking up the likes of Braintree, Bromley and Boreham Wood.

Amond went because Hurst/Fenty didn't want to pay him as much as Hartlepool did (where are they in the league by the way?) and Bogle left for a bigger club and a much bigger pay packet - hardly Bignot's fault!

Finally, what's with this need for immediate promotion? Reality is we're pretty small-fry budget-wise in this league.
Posted by: chaos33, March 20, 2017, 9:57pm; Reply: 66
Interesting point raised on Amond nonetheless. Had we found a way to retain him, his goals this season may just have been enough to sustain an actual play off push (rather than the imagined feeble attempt much talked about this season). Pigheadedness and a lack of persistence and imagination lost Amond. Had we found a way to keep him (and Arnold), we would, I feel, have been actual contenders this season, rather than also-rans.
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 20, 2017, 10:25pm; Reply: 67
Quoted from chaos33
Interesting point raised on Amond nonetheless. Had we found a way to retain him, his goals this season may just have been enough to sustain an actual play off push (rather than the imagined feeble attempt much talked about this season). Pigheadedness and a lack of persistence and imagination lost Amond. Had we found a way to keep him (and Arnold), we would, I feel, have been actual contenders this season, rather than also-rans.


Amond, before he joined GTFC, had a pretty average record in L2 and hasn't improved massively this season. Similarly, Arnold has never cut it in L2. Pigheaded in some people's minds, a solid evaluation of a player's level in others - all about opinions!
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 20, 2017, 10:25pm; Reply: 68
Quoted from chaos33
Interesting point raised on Amond nonetheless. Had we found a way to retain him, his goals this season may just have been enough to sustain an actual play off push (rather than the imagined feeble attempt much talked about this season). Pigheadedness and a lack of persistence and imagination lost Amond. Had we found a way to keep him (and Arnold), we would, I feel, have been actual contenders this season, rather than also-rans.


Pig-headedness on the part of whom though chaos? , the club, the player or his agent? Amond was offered 18 months on top of his remaining 6 = 2 years but did not want to sign it just in case we did not go up, players can't always have it their way, but I do agree I think we would have been better off with him without a doubt. From what I have seen it's not so much the goals that has held us back it's the lack of quality approach play and balls into the box.  
Posted by: Zmariner, March 21, 2017, 12:15am; Reply: 69
On 7th Nov 2016 I signed the commitment mail and so I say let's see where we are 10 games into next season. MB is relatively young and although it has been a bit random so far there are some clear weak links in the squad. We need pace at centre back ,a new keeper and pace up front. I say keep the faith and let's see how we do next season when this lot have had a full pre season. I remain optimistic and suspect that the tinkerman will settle down eventually. At this point MB has my full support UTM
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 21, 2017, 7:55am; Reply: 70
Quoted from Zmariner
On 7th Nov 2016 I signed the commitment mail and so I say let's see where we are 10 games into next season. MB is relatively young and although it has been a bit random so far there are some clear weak links in the squad. We need pace at centre back ,a new keeper and pace up front. I say keep the faith and let's see how we do next season when this lot have had a full pre season. I remain optimistic and suspect that the tinkerman will settle down eventually. At this point MB has my full support UTM


Lots of posters are saying we need pacey centre backs but from what I have seen this year we have conceded goals by either being exposed down the flanks, poor defending at corners, free kicks or just plain error. Shaun and Danny Collins read the game reasonably well and I don't recall many occasions when they have lost out to strikers in an out and out foot race. Agree about the keepr as well as retaining the likes of Shaun, The Danny's and possibly Vose, I think the priority is a striker who can be a "Jonny on the spot" and a solution to both the left and right hand sides going forward.
Posted by: oldun, March 21, 2017, 8:01am; Reply: 71
Quoted from Zmariner
On 7th Nov 2016 I signed the commitment mail and so I say let's see where we are 10 games into next season. MB is relatively young and although it has been a bit random so far there are some clear weak links in the squad. We need pace at centre back ,a new keeper and pace up front. I say keep the faith and let's see how we do next season when this lot have had a full pre season. I remain optimistic and suspect that the tinkerman will settle down eventually. At this point MB has my full support UTM


10 games into next season is hardly "full" support. As I have already said, he may well need at least two more seasons to get us where we all want to be.
Posted by: Zmariner, March 21, 2017, 10:17am; Reply: 72
I think if we were at the bottom going into November next season question would be asked. Not looking for miracles just a bit of progress and stability. I expect we will be st least half way and MB will have us more consistent by then, that will be enough for me. We must never drop out of the league again UTM
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 21, 2017, 10:23am; Reply: 73
I think Oldun I right I expect us to be mid table next season but playing a type of football that the fans understand and looks like ultimately will deliver success.
Posted by: headingly_mariner, March 21, 2017, 10:38am; Reply: 74
Quoted from chaos33
Interesting point raised on Amond nonetheless. Had we found a way to retain him, his goals this season may just have been enough to sustain an actual play off push (rather than the imagined feeble attempt much talked about this season). Pigheadedness and a lack of persistence and imagination lost Amond. Had we found a way to keep him (and Arnold), we would, I feel, have been actual contenders this season, rather than also-rans.


Completely agree, both players that could've played a really big part this season. They would both walk into our side now.
Posted by: forza ivano, March 21, 2017, 11:27am; Reply: 75
Quoted from The Old Codger


Amond, before he joined GTFC, had a pretty average record in L2 and hasn't improved massively this season. Similarly, Arnold has never cut it in L2. Pigheaded in some people's minds, a solid evaluation of a player's level in others - all about opinions!


13 in 38 games in a struggling side ain't bad!
Posted by: chaos33, March 21, 2017, 9:38pm; Reply: 76
Quoted from forza ivano


13 in 38 games in a struggling side ain't bad!


Exactly my point. He might have scored 15-20 goals for us, and that would have given us a better shot at the top 7. Hurst didn't really rate Amond and that's a fact.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 21, 2017, 9:48pm; Reply: 77
Quoted from chaos33


Exactly my point. He might have scored 15-20 goals for us, and that would have given us a better shot at the top 7. Hurst didn't really rate Amond and that's a fact.




chao how do you really know that's a fact, he rated him enough to sign him. On Saturday in the 1st half Osborne played a really good ball across the Crawley six yard box and no Town player was anywhere near it, that would have been ripe for Amond. Its hard to ay how many goals he would have got as pretty much most of the season our delivery into the box has been poor.  
Posted by: chaos33, March 21, 2017, 10:05pm; Reply: 78
I was told he didn't really rate Amond 'all round' by someone who knew, and Hurst's actions spoke louder than words at times. The fact that Hurst wasn't that persistent in trying to sign him once we'd made L2 underlines the point. The line was ...we made him a mid season offer, and then another at the end of the season, and it was 'take it or leave it'. Clearly there was some resentment that he didn't sign the earlier offer, and the Hartlepool deal was also evidently much better than Town's proposal, which can only be seen as a reflection of how Hurst thought of him as a L2 prospect - a judgement call Hurst got wrong the stats would suggest.

As regards Arnold - it's been reported on many occasions that the offer he received was 'not attractive' shall we say. I don't know the particulars, but Arnold's affection for the club was very clearly evident and outlined lots of times by the player. He did not sign it and the club did not go out of its way to chase him. There's an offer, take it or leave it being the order of the day it seemed. I think Arnold would've been great in our team in L2 this season - but instead, we have played a full campaign without a left winger, so, IMO another judgement call Hurst got wrong, and the justification for the 'pigheaded' comment I made earlier.
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 21, 2017, 10:10pm; Reply: 79
Quoted from chaos33
I was told he didn't really rate Amond 'all round' by someone who knew, and Hurst's actions spoke louder than words at times. The fact that Hurst wasn't that persistent in trying to sign him once we'd made L2 underlines the point. The line was ...we made him a mid season offer, and then another at the end of the season, and it was 'take it or leave it'. Clearly there was some resentment that he didn't sign the earlier offer, and the Hartlepool deal was also evidently much better than Town's proposal, which can only be seen as a reflection of how Hurst thought of him as a L2 prospect - a judgement call Hurst got wrong the stats would suggest.

As regards Arnold - it's been reported on many occasions that the offer he received was 'not attractive' shall we say. I don't know the particulars, but Arnold's affection for the club was very clearly evident and outlined lots of times by the player. He did not sign it and the club did not go out of its way to chase him. There's an offer, take it or leave it being the order of the day it seemed. I think Arnold would've been great in our team in L2 this season - but instead, we have played a full campaign without a left winger, so, IMO another judgement call Hurst got wrong, and the justification for the 'pigheaded' comment I made earlier.


But that underlines the point - neither of these decisions can in any way be pointed at Bignot.
Posted by: chaos33, March 21, 2017, 10:12pm; Reply: 80
Nothing to do with Bignot mate, and never said or implied it did. I've wandered off topic.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 21, 2017, 10:16pm; Reply: 81
Quoted from chaos33
I was told he didn't really rate Amond 'all round' by someone who knew, and Hurst's actions spoke louder than words at times. The fact that Hurst wasn't that persistent in trying to sign him once we'd made L2 underlines the point. The line was ...we made him a mid season offer, and then another at the end of the season, and it was 'take it or leave it'. Clearly there was some resentment that he didn't sign the earlier offer, and the Hartlepool deal was also evidently much better than Town's proposal, which can only be seen as a reflection of how Hurst thought of him as a L2 prospect - a judgement call Hurst got wrong the stats would suggest.

As regards Arnold - it's been reported on many occasions that the offer he received was 'not attractive' shall we say. I don't know the particulars, but Arnold's affection for the club was very clearly evident and outlined lots of times by the player. He did not sign it and the club did not go out of its way to chase him. There's an offer, take it or leave it being the order of the day it seemed. I think Arnold would've been great in our team in L2 this season - but instead, we have played a full campaign without a left winger, so, IMO another judgement call Hurst got wrong, and the justification for the 'pigheaded' comment I made earlier.


We certainly would have been a better team with both of them this season, I have not seen many stellar left backs this season so Nathan could have done well, then again we have not tested any defender on that side of the  pitch so it's hard to sat how good anyone is.

if we offered Arnold less money than last year which has been put out there than I would have certainly looked elsewhere, I understand that Nathan does not have an agent so clearly any decision he made was his own unlike Amond who went on record saying "I just left it to my agent to sort out".  

Re the full campaign without a left winger that's down to both managers isn't it? If Marcus thought it was that big a deal he'd have taken a punt on another non league prospect at the very least.
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 21, 2017, 10:19pm; Reply: 82
Quoted from HertsGTFC


We certainly would have been a better team with both of them this season, I have not seen many stellar left backs this season so Nathan could have done well, then again we have not tested any defender on that side of the  pitch so it's hard to sat how good anyone is.

if we offered Arnold less money than last year which has been put out there than I would have certainly looked elsewhere, I understand that Nathan does not have an agent so clearly any decision he made was his own unlike Amond who went on record saying "I just left it to my agent to sort out".  

Re the full campaign without a left winger that's down to both managers isn't it? If Marcus thought it was that big a deal he'd have taken a punt on another non league prospect at the very least.


The best left back I've seen this season is our Player of The Year
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 21, 2017, 10:25pm; Reply: 83
Quoted from The Old Codger


The best left back I've seen this season is our Player of The Year


I have to agree, which is a bit worrying as he's out of contract soon :-/
Posted by: Maringer, March 22, 2017, 7:34am; Reply: 84
Out of Amond and Arnold, I definitely would have preferred to have kept Arnold, despite his somewhat indifferent form last season due to his personal issues. Decent wingers aren't easy to find and he's always had a goal or two in him as well.

Last season, despite his great goalscoring record, Amond proved to be a bit of a 'flat track bully', so to speak, with almost all of his goals coming against the weaker teams in the division and he was pretty much no threat against the stronger ones (not all his fault, of course as we weren't great). Other than his goals, he didn't offer much to the team so I can see why Hurst didn't exactly bust a gut to keep him. That said, I don't doubt he'd have scored ten or so for us this season had he stayed.

If the rumours are true, I think the biggest reason we didn't go for him was because Hurst was expecting to re-sign LJL to play alongside Bogle and there wouldn't then have been a role for Amond. Of course, that soon fell by the wayside due to injury. I still think Bogle would do better playing alongside more of a 'target man' partner but then perhaps his big improvement this season came in part due to the pressure of having to lead the line on his own much of the time? Regardless, it worked out well for us and him.

Would I have Amond back next year? Yes - providing we were able to sign the wingers to create the chances for him. Not that I expect this to happen.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 22, 2017, 8:21am; Reply: 85
Quoted from Maringer
Out of Amond and Arnold, I definitely would have preferred to have kept Arnold, despite his somewhat indifferent form last season due to his personal issues. Decent wingers aren't easy to find and he's always had a goal or two in him as well.

Last season, despite his great goalscoring record, Amond proved to be a bit of a 'flat track bully', so to speak, with almost all of his goals coming against the weaker teams in the division and he was pretty much no threat against the stronger ones (not all his fault, of course as we weren't great). Other than his goals, he didn't offer much to the team so I can see why Hurst didn't exactly bust a gut to keep him. That said, I don't doubt he'd have scored ten or so for us this season had he stayed.

If the rumours are true, I think the biggest reason we didn't go for him was because Hurst was expecting to re-sign LJL to play alongside Bogle and there wouldn't then have been a role for Amond. Of course, that soon fell by the wayside due to injury. I still think Bogle would do better playing alongside more of a 'target man' partner but then perhaps his big improvement this season came in part due to the pressure of having to lead the line on his own much of the time? Regardless, it worked out well for us and him.

Would I have Amond back next year? Yes - providing we were able to sign the wingers to create the chances for him. Not that I expect this to happen.


LJL really? even though during the close season Lenny was injured and not scheduled for recovery until Christmas.
Posted by: Maringer, March 22, 2017, 9:30am; Reply: 86
The story was that we were on the brink of signing him immediately before he picked up his injury. If true, it would rather put the kibosh on Hurst's plans which is why we ended up scratting around for strikers yet again at the start of the season.

Our mid-table situation with nothing to play for will hopefully mean that Bignot can get his summer departures/signings mostly lined up by the end of the season. The multitude of signings in the transfer window means that the defence and midfield should be pretty much set so hopefully he can find the wingers and a striker or two we badly need to be able to mount a challenge next season. Starting pre-season training with pretty much a full squad would be a real bonus.
Posted by: 1mickylyons, March 22, 2017, 10:35am; Reply: 87
Quoted from Maringer
Out of Amond and Arnold, I definitely would have preferred to have kept Arnold, despite his somewhat indifferent form last season due to his personal issues. Decent wingers aren't easy to find and he's always had a goal or two in him as well.

Last season, despite his great goalscoring record, Amond proved to be a bit of a 'flat track bully', so to speak, with almost all of his goals coming against the weaker teams in the division and he was pretty much no threat against the stronger ones (not all his fault, of course as we weren't great). Other than his goals, he didn't offer much to the team so I can see why Hurst didn't exactly bust a gut to keep him. That said, I don't doubt he'd have scored ten or so for us this season had he stayed.

If the rumours are true, I think the biggest reason we didn't go for him was because Hurst was expecting to re-sign LJL to play alongside Bogle and there wouldn't then have been a role for Amond. Of course, that soon fell by the wayside due to injury. I still think Bogle would do better playing alongside more of a 'target man' partner but then perhaps his big improvement this season came in part due to the pressure of having to lead the line on his own much of the time? Regardless, it worked out well for us and him.

Would I have Amond back next year? Yes - providing we were able to sign the wingers to create the chances for him. Not that I expect this to happen.


No not because he is ex Town BUT Amond is just the type of player MB should be looking to bring in he ticks all the boxes give him a chance he will take it.
Posted by: Mariner_09, March 22, 2017, 12:04pm; Reply: 88
I do think that Arnold on one wing and Bolarinwa on the other would cause teams problems, also Arnold would provide Andrew more protection than Vose, Berrett or just nobody which has been the fase recently. Likewise, we know Bogle and Amond were a good partnership and I'd like to think that Amond and Asante/Dyson could be a decent partnership. Frankly, the only players we released or lost that we have replaced effectively even now are Tait, Robertson and Clay. I know we have Collins instead of Toto but they are totally different types of centre half. I'd say Clements is better than Clay but Berrett certainly isn't better than Nolan and Osborne's just a different type of player.
Posted by: Stranger in the Park, March 24, 2017, 10:13pm; Reply: 89
I find all the talk about wingers strange as it seems pretty clear that Bignot does not favour that style of play at all otherwise he would be playing wide men. On the evidence so far this is alien to him and would sooner play a systems game that baffles everyone - including the players.
Posted by: rancido, March 26, 2017, 11:35am; Reply: 90
I find all the talk about wingers strange as it seems pretty clear that Bignot does not favour that style of play at all otherwise he would be playing wide men. On the evidence so far this is alien to him and would sooner play a systems game that baffles everyone - including the players.



At the recent forum MB said that there are only three ways to play football ; down the wings, through the middle or over the middle and he wants his teams to be able to play all three, even within a game. On that basis he does want to use wingers but quite possibly he doesn't push that route at the moment because , apart from Tombola, we don't really have any decent wingers.
Posted by: Swansea_Mariner, March 26, 2017, 12:42pm; Reply: 91
Is the system too complex, is that the reason we look disjointed?

Hopefully it will bed in over the remaining games and preseason and we can get out of the traps quickly next year.
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 26, 2017, 1:10pm; Reply: 92
Look at most top teams and you'll struggle to name a winger, most teams are based on a system similar to ours
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 26, 2017, 1:22pm; Reply: 93
We don't have the personnel to play FB and Winger partnerships up and down the flans at the moment as there is no credible left winger, I hope this changes next season and we see some options in the way we set up. The ability to get in behind teams is something that we have missed.  
Posted by: gtfc82, March 26, 2017, 2:13pm; Reply: 94
The reason why most teams at this level play 442 is because the players haven't got the ability to play more advanced systems! Hence why 352 was abandoned pretty quickly by Bignot. A straightforward 442, with attacking wingers and supporting full backs is what most players feel comfortable with. That IMO is what Bignot should focus on next season!
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 26, 2017, 5:11pm; Reply: 95
Quoted from gtfc82
The reason why most teams at this level play 442 is because the players haven't got the ability to play more advanced systems! Hence why 352 was abandoned pretty quickly by Bignot. A straightforward 442, with attacking wingers and supporting full backs is what most players feel comfortable with. That IMO is what Bignot should focus on next season!


A straightforward 4-4-2 gets buried in this league because other teams play three, sometimes four central midfielders and cut down space. Attacking wingers are a rare commodity in any league and the best attacking wide players in the Prem tend to be full backs (Walker, Rose, Clyne, Alonso, Bertrand, Bellerin, Valencia, Coleman)
Posted by: headingly_mariner, March 26, 2017, 5:45pm; Reply: 96
Quoted from The Old Codger
Look at most top teams and you'll struggle to name a winger, most teams are based on a system similar to ours


There are wide players though. We don't have any with or pace other than bolarinwa. I can't imagine many other sides play 5 central midfielders in 5 of the 6 midfield and attacking positions.
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 26, 2017, 5:50pm; Reply: 97
Quoted from headingly_mariner


There are wide players though. We don't have any with or pace other than bolarinwa. I can't imagine many other sides play 5 central midfielders in 5 of the 6 midfield and attacking positions.


As I said, most wide players play in defensive positions.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 26, 2017, 5:56pm; Reply: 98
I think we abandoned 3 - 5 -2 as none of the centre backs could effectively start play, possibly not their fault as it may have been due to the lack of movement in front of them. The system would not be that much of a discussion if we could pass and move to a reasonable level
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 26, 2017, 7:46pm; Reply: 99
Seems like another manager is having fun with formations

9 hours ago northwestman likes this
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Post by ssshrew on 9 hours ago
camdenshrew Avatar
9 hours ago camdenshrew said:
Hurst explained the reason he went with that formation was to match Bolton's set-up. I wouldn't expect to see it deployed again in the near future.
I hope not.  Picking our team to match the opposition was MMs great scheme. It didn't work then either.

Posted by: Paddythebadger, March 27, 2017, 1:18pm; Reply: 100
Quoted from The Old Codger
Seems like another manager is having fun with formations

9 hours ago northwestman likes this
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Post by ssshrew on 9 hours ago
camdenshrew Avatar
9 hours ago camdenshrew said:
Hurst explained the reason he went with that formation was to match Bolton's set-up. I wouldn't expect to see it deployed again in the near future.
I hope not.  Picking our team to match the opposition was MMs great scheme. It didn't work then either.



Its not looking great for the shrews, be great to play em next season, like an old reunion!

Posted by: rancido, March 27, 2017, 5:37pm; Reply: 101
Quoted from HertsGTFC
I think we abandoned 3 - 5 -2 as none of the centre backs could effectively start play, possibly not their fault as it may have been due to the lack of movement in front of them. The system would not be that much of a discussion if we could pass and move to a reasonable level



I think you are correct here. Although Pearson and Collins are quite comfortable bringing the ball out of defence, Boyce looks very uncomfortable attempting that. With the right players 3-5-2 can be a very potent formation but you do need the right calibre of players at the back.
Posted by: Mariner_09, March 27, 2017, 7:03pm; Reply: 102
You need at least 2 of them to be either very athletic or comfortable on the ball, you need 2 very fit and athletic wing backs as well.
Posted by: 1mickylyons, March 28, 2017, 7:08am; Reply: 103
Thoughts on Bignot?

Not impressed at all so far and I would like to see a massive improvement on the playing side of things !
Posted by: grimsby pete, March 28, 2017, 12:46pm; Reply: 104
If I had the choice of having Hurst for another 5 years reaching the play offs but failing to get us promoted,

Or Marcus keeping us nice and safe in mid table  I would choose Marcus any day,

The reason is Hurst used to bore me to death,

BUT

I do not think we will be mid table next season Marcus has nearly got the team and infrastructure in place,

It will not take him 5 years to get us promoted I am sure of that.
Posted by: Mariner_09, March 28, 2017, 5:23pm; Reply: 105
I'm happy to take any kind of dullness or over the top rubbish talk if the flip side of that is that we win games and achieve something, which Hurst did! I'd even have been able to cope with Adkins' "process goals" and "performing basic tasks well to an elite level" if it meant we won!
Posted by: headingly_mariner, March 28, 2017, 6:32pm; Reply: 106
Quoted from grimsby pete
If I had the choice of having Hurst for another 5 years reaching the play offs but failing to get us promoted,

Or Marcus keeping us nice and safe in mid table  I would choose Marcus any day,

The reason is Hurst used to bore me to death,

BUT

I do not think we will be mid table next season Marcus has nearly got the team and infrastructure in place,

It will not take him 5 years to get us promoted I am sure of that.


I'd have Hurst in a heartbeat.
Posted by: The Old Codger, March 28, 2017, 7:26pm; Reply: 107
Quoted from Mariner_09
I'm happy to take any kind of dullness or over the top rubbish talk if the flip side of that is that we win games and achieve something, which Hurst did! I'd even have been able to cope with Adkins' "process goals" and "performing basic tasks well to an elite level" if it meant we won!


With our budget and support, we were always likely to 'achieve something' - pity it took so flipping long. Why do people struggle with the notion that we are now less likely to achieve because we are operating at a higher level and why can't people grasp the notion that Bignot is not prepared to stick with what he inherited?
Posted by: HertsGTFC, March 28, 2017, 10:37pm; Reply: 108
Quoted from grimsby pete
If I had the choice of having Hurst for another 5 years reaching the play offs but failing to get us promoted,

Or Marcus keeping us nice and safe in mid table  I would choose Marcus any day,

The reason is Hurst used to bore me to death,

BUT

I do not think we will be mid table next season Marcus has nearly got the team and infrastructure in place,

It will not take him 5 years to get us promoted I am sure of that.


Get all the Hurst took ages stuff but..........

For 2 years he was a double act with that tw@t Scott, 3rd we where not good enough but some dodgy reffing may have edged us out versus Gateshead, following season lost on peno's so as close as you can get, last season we got up. Possibly he played boring pragmatic football because many non league players are not capable of much else, that's why they are not playing in the EFL in the main.

People need to manage their expectations as I reckon realistically it will be the season after next at least before Marcus takes us up unless we have run at the POs at the right time. Not because he'll do anything particularly badly but there is a massive amount of development to do with this squad and there could easily well be 4 teams at least with bigger budgets and better squads.

Play offs versus mid table? I'd take play offs every time, extra gate money, bit of Sky money, Wembley money & merchandising sales if you get to the final and possibly helps you recruit better players for the following season even if you fall short as you will be seen as a credible promotion side. Also I reckon if we had been mid table the season before last Operation Promotion would have never have happened.  

Posted by: The Old Codger, March 29, 2017, 6:59am; Reply: 109
Quoted from HertsGTFC


Get all the Hurst took ages stuff but..........

For 2 years he was a double act with that tw@t Scott, 3rd we where not good enough but some dodgy reffing may have edged us out versus Gateshead, following season lost on peno's so as close as you can get, last season we got up. Possibly he played boring pragmatic football because many non league players are not capable of much else, that's why they are not playing in the EFL in the main.

People need to manage their expectations as I reckon realistically it will be the season after next at least before Marcus takes us up unless we have run at the POs at the right time. Not because he'll do anything particularly badly but there is a massive amount of development to do with this squad and there could easily well be 4 teams at least with bigger budgets and better squads.

Play offs versus mid table? I'd take play offs every time, extra gate money, bit of Sky money, Wembley money & merchandising sales if you get to the final and possibly helps you recruit better players for the following season even if you fall short as you will be seen as a credible promotion side. Also I reckon if we had been mid table the season before last Operation Promotion would have never have happened.  



Good point in bold - add to that the size of the clubs coming down and the re-development of the club off the field and it's not likely to be as easy as some make out. That said, if we had kept Omar and Henderson, I believe we would have made the play-offs.
Posted by: Cloudy, March 29, 2017, 8:02am; Reply: 110
Quoted from The Old Codger


Good point in bold - add to that the size of the clubs coming down and the re-development of the club off the field and it's not likely to be as easy as some make out. That said, if we had kept Omar and Henderson, I believe we would have made the play-offs.


You keep referring to this mythical group who believe we should be winning every week or who believe it will be easy? Who exactly is in this group? I've yet to come across any members

Posted by: Stranger in the Park, March 29, 2017, 2:44pm; Reply: 111
By recent standards town are having a mediocre season and the biggest majority of players brought in are lower league hopeful's or league cast off's, coupled with a lower league hopeful manager. You reap what you sow! Fourth division football has always been dire and possibly even harder than the Conference to escape from and given the acquisitions this season and their performances I am not optimistic that Bignot will progress this club.Sooner or later John Fenty will question the value of a lot of the current squad if performances do not improve and in turn question Bignots ability.    
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