I was thinking about the performance of the current Town board and wondered what other people thought.

I wonder what people think about the ambition of the board, we spent 6 years in non league with a shrinking budget and managed to get out the season the fans raised 100k for transfer budget. Looking up the road at Scunny, they often pay transfer fees and their board are pumping money in trying to get them in the championship. I know the much maligned Mullens have put some money in to the budget recently, but is anyone else on the board putting money in that is not guarantees or loans? I see the suggestions of some for the new manager and think these would only go to an ambitious club in our league that pays well and has a bit of a transfer kitty.

Why does the club operate at a very small loss each year? Now that gate receipts and other revenue seem much closer to covering expenditure, surely if we aren't being overly ambitious the books can balance. I'm sure someone with a better knowledge of the accounts can tell me if I'm way off with this.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

I was thinking about the performance of the current Town board and wondered what other people thought.

I wonder what people think about the ambition of the board, we spent 6 years in non league with a shrinking budget and managed to get out the season the fans raised 100k for transfer budget. Looking up the road at Scunny, they often pay transfer fees and their board are pumping money in trying to get them in the championship. I know the much maligned Mullens have put some money in to the budget recently, but is anyone else on the board putting money in that is not guarantees or loans? I see the suggestions of some for the new manager and think these would only go to an ambitious club in our league that pays well and has a bit of a transfer kitty.

Why does the club operate at a very small loss each year? Now that gate receipts and other revenue seem much closer to covering expenditure, surely if we aren't being overly ambitious the books can balance. I'm sure someone with a better knowledge of the accounts can tell me if I'm way off with this.

It puzzles me too. It's back to the conundrum regarding the club's debts and I'm not going to bang the same drum over again as my views are well known on this one.

the thing i find hard to understand is we have great support and its on the increase and we have been reasonably successful for a few seasons . so in my eyes revenue must have gone up in both ticket sales food and drink, merchandises etc yet all we ever hear is shrinking budget we cant afford this or that . So someone please tell us were all the money goes.

Well I think Scunny have a wealthy owner which helps them, as they certainly wouldn't be able to maintain the style to which they've become accustomed on a home supporter base of 2,800/3,000.

I don't know the football-economics of our situation, but I think Getyourfactsright and the Raffle Winners put in a decent amount.  Even so, I'm sure there's a limit to what they can do and not sure that finding £300,000 for a manager down the back of the Findus Stand sofa is necessarily realistic.

Hopefully this season, the better gates and sponsorship will help, but there'll always be extra clamour for better players, a top manager and more spending, so I suppose it's all relative.

In my opinion it's the same problem we've had for the last 20 years - No one with the amount required to be able to 'have a real go ' at it . As much as people give JF stick , in my view he has got the best intentions of the club at heart , although now isn't willing to 'go mad ' on funding the club at a loss year-on-year ( And hasn't got the big funds required to go willy-nilly) . Scunny are whether we like it or not in a different league to us - they have a 'multi' who obviously wants to take them back to The Championship ( with a new stadium possibly even the EPL ) That's one of my fears losing PH , He worked to a budget , and there wasn't the merry go round of paying players/managers off which we had previously . Carrying forward gates should be strong and hopefully someone comes in who maintains stability , and who knows with a decent cup run we may break even this season . 🐺

probably something to do with a certain board member allegedly getting a handy 'pension/payment' each year.

The club also has a ground that, unlike others, doesn't have a healthy non-match day revenue stream.

I'm sure that, whether some like it or not, having a football stadium that can host other events rather than a football only venue such as BP is, will improve the finances of the football club. It is only one of a host of things holding us back though - accumulated debts, the legacy of non-league, geography being others that spring immediately to mind.

No doubt that the accumulated debt would hinder any investor, IF one is out there.

In round figures the debt to JF is circa £3m. If someone was interested in taking it on they would be deterred by having to pay £3m to take over a loss making football club. Hardly attractive!!

Now JF MAY be prepared to accept less but only if the investor can prove he has further money to invest and has the best interests of the football club at heart. That would be to Johns credit. I have no doubt he does care.

What I am concerned about is the publication of the accounts to 31st May 2016. Clearly the club exceeded their budgeted income last year as average gates were significantly higher, we went to Wembley twice and the fans produced a further £110k of cash. IF JF STILL had to put in money then I want to know why?

With all that non budgeted income surely the club were viable for those 12 months? If not then there are some serious questions to be asked.

IF a new stadium ever gets built I assume the cost of which will be borne by an investment company, possibly owned by the council/ JF.
Provided the football income goes to the football club then that should improve things but what we do with the benign debt is another question. Another question which isn't pleasant but needs asking all the same is what happens to the debt upon JF's demise? Will his benefactors demand immediate repayment? Maybe not a question for the message board but something that needs addressing at boardroom level

Football finance us complex, and the fact we remain a PLC is a strange decision. Are we the only PLC based in Gy? It is costly and restrictive.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

I was thinking about the performance of the current Town board and wondered what other people thought.

I wonder what people think about the ambition of the board, we spent 6 years in non league with a shrinking budget and managed to get out the season the fans raised 100k for transfer budget. Looking up the road at Scunny, they often pay transfer fees and their board are pumping money in trying to get them in the championship. I know the much maligned Mullens have put some money in to the budget recently, but is anyone else on the board putting money in that is not guarantees or loans? I see the suggestions of some for the new manager and think these would only go to an ambitious club in our league that pays well and has a bit of a transfer kitty.

Why does the club operate at a very small loss each year? Now that gate receipts and other revenue seem much closer to covering expenditure, surely if we aren't being overly ambitious the books can balance. I'm sure someone with a better knowledge of the accounts can tell me if I'm way off with this.

Scunthorpe's chairman has a link by marriage (I believe) to the Wilkos hardware retail empire so it may well be him rather than their whole board who is coming up with the readies.
As far as putting money in, it may be a bit of a drop in the ocean but the Trust put £30,000 into the coffers plus a lot more through extra purchases in the shop, "one-off" expenses and use of McMenemy's. The Mullins have contributed a significant amount but we just have to face the fact that at the moment there is no-one with the financial clout to spend freely-an issue faced by lots of clubs at our level and the one above.

Quoted from barralad

Scunthorpe's chairman has a link by marriage (I believe) to the Wilkos hardware retail empire so it may well be him rather than their whole board who is coming up with the readies.
As far as putting money in, it may be a bit of a drop in the ocean but the Trust put £30,000 into the coffers plus a lot more through extra purchases in the shop, "one-off" expenses and use of McMenemy's. The Mullins have contributed a not significant amount but we just have to face the fact that at the moment there is no-one with the financial clout to spend freely-an issue faced by lots of clubs at our level and the one above.

I hope you mean a not insignficant amount! These double negatives are a pain in the ar**

Quoted from barralad

Scunthorpe's chairman has a link by marriage (I believe) to the Wilkos hardware retail empire so it may well be him rather than their whole board who is coming up with the readies.
As far as putting money in, it may be a bit of a drop in the ocean but the Trust put £30,000 into the coffers plus a lot more through extra purchases in the shop, "one-off" expenses and use of McMenemy's. The Mullins have contributed a significant amount but we just have to face the fact that at the moment there is no-one with the financial clout to spend freely-an issue faced by lots of clubs at our level and the one above.

Peter Swann is married to Karin Wilkinson and they sold their half-share in Wilko for a shedload of money. Alongside their interest in Scunny, they've got approximately 20 racehorses in training, some of which cost 200k.

All of which amounts to a necessary medium-to-long term strategy of getting the club up a league or two, with stable gates, a new ground and an credible-JF-exit-scenario, presenting it as an all-round proposition to a potential benefactor.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I hope you mean a not insignficant amount! These double negatives are a pain in the ar**

I know...slip of the finger. I've quickly amended it. I've no problem with their generous contributions at all. :o

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Peter Swann is married to Karin Wilkinson and they sold their half-share in Wilko for a shedload of money. Alongside their interest in Scunny, they've got approximately 20 racehorses in training, some of which cost 200k.

Yeah but have they got any Cleethorpes donkeys? 8)

Quoted from headingly_mariner

I was thinking about the performance of the current Town board and wondered what other people thought.

I wonder what people think about the ambition of the board, we spent 6 years in non league with a shrinking budget and managed to get out the season the fans raised 100k for transfer budget. Looking up the road at Scunny, they often pay transfer fees and their board are pumping money in trying to get them in the championship. I know the much maligned Mullens have put some money in to the budget recently, but is anyone else on the board putting money in that is not guarantees or loans? I see the suggestions of some for the new manager and think these would only go to an ambitious club in our league that pays well and has a bit of a transfer kitty.

Why does the club operate at a very small loss each year? Now that gate receipts and other revenue seem much closer to covering expenditure, surely if we aren't being overly ambitious the books can balance. I'm sure someone with a better knowledge of the accounts can tell me if I'm way off with this.

Though our board are possibly not the most engaging or throw money around like oil barons and shakes what it feels like is that they are not jeopardising the club by over stretching thing which is in reality the safest bet.

Income may have gone up but I am sure costs have too, though some TV money etc... now we are back in the FL will help. I reckon making a small loss probably stops people calling in loans which if we had to pay back would hurt us.

Like I say I think despite their complete lack of PR savvy they are doing what they can. I think it takes a brave man to invest in a football club as usually you don't get much back.............unless you do some kind of land/property deal on the back of moving to a new stadium, allegedly!    

  

I think the current board are doing a reasonable job at keeping us afloat and competitive at this level.

Not sure what the benefits are to having Mullins on the the board, other than keeping him sweet so that he keeps chucking some money in.

Realistically we need more investment to take us to the next level and hopefully the new stadium will help with this.

I believe JF will take us forward and feel reassured the mariners trust board members will help steady the ship if needed.

Onwards and upwards, more positives than negatives....

UTM

Quoted from barralad

we just have to face the fact that at the moment there is no-one with the financial clout to spend freely-an issue faced by lots of clubs at our level and the one above.

You cannot know this for sure. Maybe there is but they are put off by having to pay £3m to pay off Fenty's benign loans.

I do find it amusing when people talk about 'investment' into a football club. This sort of indicates that there is some hope of a return from the money 'invested' where, in reality, it's just money down the drain.

I suppose it is easier to say you're looking for 'investment' as opposed to a 'wealthy individual willing to lose money to boost his ego and profile'.

I blame Jack Walker.  :)

Quoted from Maringer

I do find it amusing when people talk about 'investment' into a football club. This sort of indicates that there is some hope of a return from the money 'invested' where, in reality, it's just money down the drain.

I suppose it is easier to say you're looking for 'investment' as opposed to a 'wealthy individual willing to lose money to boost his ego and profile'.

I blame Jack Walker.  :)

We need a David Ross type sugar daddy but highly unlikely I'm afraid ,why didn't the scunny guy want us ?? 3 million in debt and the worst council in the country probably had something to do with it
(thumbdown)(thumbdown)

Does anyone know how much TV money etc gets filtered down to League 2? I was always aware of the enhanced £1 million parachute payment if you go down to the conference (shudder) but never quite sure how much being in League 2 is worth.

Quoted from 97

Does anyone know how much TV money etc gets filtered down to League 2? I was always aware of the enhanced £1 million parachute payment if you go down to the conference (shudder) but never quite sure how much being in League 2 is worth.

Think the solidarity payments (yeah, right) are about £300,000 or a weeks wages for Wayne Rooney. Not checked recently.

Quoted from Maringer

I do find it amusing when people talk about 'investment' into a football club. This sort of indicates that there is some hope of a return from the money 'invested' where, in reality, it's just money down the drain.

I suppose it is easier to say you're looking for 'investment' as opposed to a 'wealthy individual willing to lose money to boost his ego and profile'.

I blame Jack Walker.  :)

I think from what my Targers supporting mates tell me, the Allams ( when they eventually pull out of their global branding project ) stand to take a very tidy lump sum, to go along with the yearly interest revenue they've had on the loans they put in place when they took over

They could well  be exception to the rule of course, but I've been told eventually they will come out with quite a substantial dividend from their "investment"

Back in the day, 'businessmen' were often keen to get involved with football clubs with the intention of getting their grubby little fingers on the assets of the club i.e. the ground (something which does seem to occur in non-league to this day), but it isn't so much the case in the modern era.

There must certainly be money to be made at the highest level due to the stupid amounts of cash sloshing around the Premiershite, but I don't think you could say the same is true once you get down past the top tier.

I think the Allams probably are the exception to the rule but, of course, the Tahgers were a bit more fortunate than most clubs as they were given the keys to a brand-new stadium by the council. Simply a non-starter elsewhere. No doubt that is why Allam wanted to buy the site outright to increase the potential selling value of the club.

This article is by a Nottingham Forest fan and is well worth a read if you have a spare ten minutes

https://thelovingfeeling.com/2016/10/26/one-thousand-cuts/

The bit below rings true as a town fan.

An investment that he’s weaponised – one that he flaunts, every chance he gets, to prove his love. His worth. And it’s balderdash. It’s not an investment; it’s picking up the tab for mistake after self-inflicted mistake. An amount of money that would have been half of what it is today, if he’d only had the sense and the grace to let someone else play with this toy. An expert. Someone who knew.