I wonder if Town's penny pinching appoach to getting promotion will cost us again at the end of the season.  Yes I know it is far too early to press the panic button, but the signs are clearly there for all to see.  Did we honestly think plundering the likes of York and Boston would strengthen our team and indeed our chances in League 2........  not in my book.  Even though we have regained league status, our approach pre-season was dubious to say the least.  The guts of our team and the star players all departed, unrest in the camp, or purely down to money again, and our ability not to pay a decent wage.  Hells teeth, we even begrudge paying a mascot a few quid a week !!!

What is needed in my book is competiton for McKeown, a new centre half, and two new midfielders and a striker.  Our squad is thinner than tescos market value ham !!!  Unless we get bodies in and quickly our fight will be at the wrong end of the table.  Why is it that for every step GTFC takes forward, we go on to take two steps backward.  Would love to see some new directors at this football club, with positive attitudes and a forward thinking approach.  Expect to lose another 500 fans on Saturday with a crowd of 4,500 against Stevenage.FFS strengthen this team before we end up playing Lincoln City again !!!

UTM

I said during pre season that I had heard the budget wasn't as high as Paul Hurst wanted, I heard Fenty onlyv gave him a 5% Increase in the budget, PH tried to negotiate and Fenty only gave him 5% extra so in reality only a 10% increase which is far too small in my opinion.

When I posted this I got shot down by people, well early signs look like I was correct...

Quoted from Davec

I said during pre season that I had heard the budget wasn't as high as Paul Hurst wanted, I heard Fenty onlyv gave him a 5% Increase in the budget, PH tried to negotiate and Fenty only gave him 5% extra so in reality only a 10% increase which is far too small in my opinion.

When I posted this I got shot down by people, well early signs look like I was correct...

Well I had heard that the Pope was a Catholic.....

Quoted from TheCodfather1966

I wonder if Town's penny pinching appoach to getting promotion will cost us again at the end of the season.  Yes I know it is far too early to press the panic button, but the signs are clearly there for all to see.  Did we honestly think plundering the likes of York and Boston would strengthen our team and indeed our chances in League 2........  not in my book.  Even though we have regained league status, our approach pre-season was dubious to say the least.  The guts of our team and the star players all departed, unrest in the camp, or purely down to money again, and our ability not to pay a decent wage.  Hells teeth, we even begrudge paying a mascot a few quid a week !!!

What is needed in my book is competiton for McKeown, a new centre half, and two new midfielders and a striker.  Our squad is thinner than tescos market value ham !!!  Unless we get bodies in and quickly our fight will be at the wrong end of the table.  Why is it that for every step GTFC takes forward, we go on to take two steps backward.  Would love to see some new directors at this football club, with positive attitudes and a forward thinking approach.  Expect to lose another 500 fans on Saturday with a crowd of 4,500 against Stevenage.FFS strengthen this team before we end up playing Lincoln City again !!!

UTM

This is the right kind of post !! This guy knows his stuff ... Remember its just his opinion , it might not be true though ............... From what ive heard my opinion isthat this poster has gone it spot on

Quoted from Davec

I said during pre season that I had heard the budget wasn't as high as Paul Hurst wanted, I heard Fenty onlyv gave him a 5% Increase in the budget, PH tried to negotiate and Fenty only gave him 5% extra so in reality only a 10% increase which is far too small in my opinion.

When I posted this I got shot down by people, well early signs look like I was correct...

Spot on poster!!!  The 2/3 year contracts we have handed out to players has me worried . Gonna be a long hard season

SOOOOOOOOOOO where is Dic@k Barton these days ????????????????

Managers always ask for more money, doesn't mean they should get it. I have no idea what our budget is or what wages we pay and i suspect very few do and to say we are penny pinching is nothing more than guesswork. We should in theory have a healthy budget as we are one of the better supported clubs in the division. Whether we have or not i don't know. It's an easy accusation to throw at the club.

Quoted from ginnywings

Managers always ask for more money, doesn't mean they should get it. I have no idea what our budget is or what wages we pay and i suspect very few do and to say we are penny pinching is nothing more than guesswork. We should in theory have a healthy budget as we are one of the better supported clubs in the division. Whether we have or not i don't know. It's an easy accusation to throw at the club.

When you're next in with John you can ask him Ginny  ;)

Quoted from MuddyWaters

When you're next in with John you can ask him Ginny  ;)

I did mention it. Not a direct question but i said something along the lines of the budget being bigger and he said yes, but didn't say by how much. I then said that i suppose the players wages will be higher but he said there isn't that big a gap between non league and league 2 now and some non league clubs pay bigger wages than you would imagine. He also said contracts run longer in league football, so that adds to the expense.

Someone can ask him directly at the fans forum. I'm sure he'll give you an answer.

Quoted from TheCodfather1966

I wonder if Town's penny pinching appoach to getting promotion will cost us again at the end of the season.  Yes I know it is far too early to press the panic button, but the signs are clearly there for all to see.  Did we honestly think plundering the likes of York and Boston would strengthen our team and indeed our chances in League 2........  not in my book.  Even though we have regained league status, our approach pre-season was dubious to say the least.  The guts of our team and the star players all departed, unrest in the camp, or purely down to money again, and our ability not to pay a decent wage.  Hells teeth, we even begrudge paying a mascot a few quid a week !!!

What is needed in my book is competiton for McKeown, a new centre half, and two new midfielders and a striker.  Our squad is thinner than tescos market value ham !!!  Unless we get bodies in and quickly our fight will be at the wrong end of the table.  Why is it that for every step GTFC takes forward, we go on to take two steps backward.  Would love to see some new directors at this football club, with positive attitudes and a forward thinking approach.  Expect to lose another 500 fans on Saturday with a crowd of 4,500 against Stevenage.FFS strengthen this team before we end up playing Lincoln City again !!!

UTM

The guts of the non league team and its star players finished a poor 4th in the Conference.It seems Paul Hurst recognised their shortcomings and set out to get a new team with better players, and fair play to him for that.

If we had got the win our performance yesterday deserved we would have been comfortably mid table.

We have clearly got better players this season and hopefully they will get better results soon. I think the new players deserve to be cut a bit of slack at this stage - people at the game yesterday understood we were the better side but sometimes these things happen. We do need more bodies in, but I am sure that will be addressed.

I am not the most patient of people, but even I can see that it would be daft to go overboard after so few games; winning is everything but its fine lines isn't it? Had we not looked capable of competing I would be worried, but we have aquitted ourselves well but not got the results.

Is trying to live within your means "penny pinching"? As it is, the directors dip into their pockets year after year as we nearly always make an operational loss. Until we get a new ground and have more income then we'll just have to make do on what income we have.

Wycombe and Colchester get considerably lower crowds than us, as we have seen, but I bet they have a bigger turnover as they have new grounds.

I can only think that some of the budget for quality players would have been 'held back' to see how Town do early doors - plenty of time left to adjust to stabilisation in League 2. :)

UTM

Quoted from Teestogreen

I can only think that some of the budget for quality players would have been 'held back' to see how Town do early doors - plenty of time left to adjust to stabilisation in League 2. :)

UTM

Window slams shut in 10 days until Jan, so not really plenty of time.

In that case - you're right  - could be that management techniques, on the players we have, to gel them in to a points winning team will prevail ----- until January 2017

The budget is only a starting figure,

Fenty has said many times in the past if the manger wants to bring in another player,

He will find the money, no manager has been told NO we do not have the money for x y or z.

I don't know what he would say if Paul wanted to sign A B OR C  though/ ;)

Budget should be higher by some margin. Price increase of £2 per seat + gate increase of say 500. Rough guess that last year's average gate was 4000 x £16 = £64000 per home game, this season £18 x 4500 = £81000 which equates to an added £391000 turnover. I appreciate that police and steward costs go up but so should merchandise and shop sales.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Budget should be higher by some margin. Price increase of £2 per seat + gate increase of say 500. Rough guess that last year's average gate was 4000 x £16 = £64000 per home game, this season £18 x 4500 = £81000 which equates to an added £391000 turnover. I appreciate that police and steward costs go up but so should merchandise and shop sales.

You can add on the League 2 basic award payment which is far greater than the National League. Guessing but something like,

£230,000..........League 2                      £35,000..............National League

I am certainly not panicking at this stage but understand Arnold is on more money at the "chimps" then he was at Grimsby which I have to say is a surprise. Also understand there was an issue marrying up his desire to work as hairdresser with that of full - time footballer at town which lincoln are not concerned with.

Should find out next trip to the barbers as Nathan will probably be holding the scissors!

From that though you'd have to probably deduct the money that the directors have in previous seasons put into the club wouldnt you? If we had Mr Fenty and co. topping up the budget it would be reasonable if that money came from the income generated.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Budget should be higher by some margin. Price increase of £2 per seat + gate increase of say 500. Rough guess that last year's average gate was 4000 x £16 = £64000 per home game, this season £18 x 4500 = £81000 which equates to an added £391000 turnover. I appreciate that police and steward costs go up but so should merchandise and shop sales.

Your figures don't take any account of kids, oap's, kids for a quid etc

Quoted from Cloudy

Your figures don't take any account of kids, oap's, kids for a quid etc

Which is why I put the words 'rough guess'  :-/

Scunthorpe in League 1 are getting up to a 1,000 less supporters through their gates than ours, how do they manage.

The answer is an ambitious chairman, something we don't have.

Or just a very much richer Chairman.

Where do people think getting a new ground will create more revenue !!!  More fans at Peaks Parkway.......... !!!!  I think not, in my humble opinion if we move grounds I think the crowd will slightly decrease.  The bottom line with this club is that we have a negative thinking Board of Directors (with the exception of the odd one) and until this changes it will always be a wing and a prayer.  Certain fans have rose colorured spectacles that is for sure.  Didn't Fenty say that we would build a squad to mount a challenge in this divison ? I believe our only challenge will be staying in this division, we are quite simply ill equipped at the moment.  Moving grounds !!!  What retail opportunities will exist at Peaks Parkway, moving grounds for us will be just the same as when Notts County did it.  We will move our fan base circa 4-6000, to a ground where we rattle around in.  We can certainly grow as a club, I don't doubt this at all, just not under the current Board.

UTM

[

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

I am certainly not panicking at this stage but understand[/b] Arnold is on more money at the "chimps" then he was at Grimsby which I have to say is a surpris[b]e. Also understand there was an issue marrying up his desire to work as hairdresser with that of full - time footballer at town which lincoln are not concerned with.

Should find out next trip to the barbers as Nathan will probably be holding the scissors!

Before Bradley moved to closer to Lincoln, would speak to three or four times a week, as our children went to the same school.
Bradley said that Lincoln were going for it, offering two contracts, Lincoln are also paying a % of his rent to live nearer.
He also said it was a big gamble offering longer contracts, which could backfire if they did not get back in the league within 2 years.

Quoted from ginnywings

Or just a very much richer Chairman.

Not his money though Ginny is it, it's his wifes.

How much has he invested in Scunny?

How is he making more ground on us to getting a new stadium?

Are you saying he is covering the wages due to their low gates?

Why haven't we got a competitive cover for Macca?

It seems to me that Fenty has cheaped out on this current team, and I don't think it is strong enough to keep out of the bottom 10. Competitive budget, I don't think so, I see more excuses coming from the boardroom that this that and another team with urine poor gates have larger budgets.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Not his money though Ginny is it, it's his wifes.

How much has he invested in Scunny?

How is he making more ground on us to getting a new stadium?

Are you saying he is covering the wages due to their low gates?

Why haven't we got a competitive cover for Macca?

It seems to me that Fenty has cheaped out on this current team, and I don't think it is strong enough to keep out of the bottom 10. Competitive budget, I don't think so, I see more excuses coming from the boardroom that this that and another team with urine poor gates have larger budgets.

If he's invested as much in Scunny as he has in racehorses, then that's a fair whack of cash.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Not his money though Ginny is it, it's his wifes.

How much has he invested in Scunny?

How is he making more ground on us to getting a new stadium?

Are you saying he is covering the wages due to their low gates?

Why haven't we got a competitive cover for Macca?

It seems to me that Fenty has cheaped out on this current team, and I don't think it is strong enough to keep out of the bottom 10. Competitive budget, I don't think so, I see more excuses coming from the boardroom that this that and another team with urine poor gates have larger budgets.

I have no idea to be honest.

Quoted from The Yard Dog

[

Before Bradley moved to closer to Lincoln, would speak to three or four times a week, as our children went to the same school.
Bradley said that Lincoln were going for it, offering two contracts, Lincoln are also paying a % of his rent to live nearer.
He also said it was a big gamble offering longer contracts, which could backfire if they did not get back in the league within 2 years.

Brads was round mine yesterday.  We was talking about a few things.  The one thing that surprised me is the training hours etc he said since the cowleys have come in the training is much longer when he was at Alfreton and Town.  They do the normal training but spend a bit extra watching the opposition.  He also said Arnold wanted to stay at town and wanted a 2 yr deal for security as his mrs was due to drop but PH only offered him a 1yr.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Scunthorpe in League 1 are getting up to a 1,000 less supporters through their gates than ours, how do they manage.

The answer is an ambitious chairman, something we don't have.

They've lost £2m for each of the last two seasons. What has that got them?

I'm happy if we live within our means. Even happier if we can pay of some of the debt. long run this will do us more good. Think we should survive in League 2 this season. Couple of things to sort out in the squad, couple of new players needed.

If at the end of the season we find revenue has gone up 30% and the budget has only gone up 10% then happy days.

My take on it is that we appear to have a much more athletic and more technically gifted side than any I've ever seen, I can see from 3 games that I've seen Davies, Andrew, Berrett, McAllister, Summerfield, Bolarinwa and Jackson are good players but need incorporating into a system that suits the best players. Compare this to the side which got relegated.

McKeown Vs Colgan - really why am I asking that question? McKeown
Davies Vs Bore - a genuine quality footballer vs a make shift right back who was actually a striker. Davies
Andrew vs Widdowson - Widdowson was a decent player but Andrew is far more athletic than Widdowson. Andrew
Pearson vs Atkinson. Atkinson was a solid centre half but could get bullied. Give SP a run of games and he will be as solid as a rock in this league. Pearson
Gowling vs Lancashire - Lancashire, see Atkinson, Gowling is more mobile and more dominanting. Gowling
Coulson Vs Berrett - Berrett is being played out of position and needs moving inside, Coulson was good IMO but he was a striker really.
Coulson (just)
Bolarinwa vs Devitt - that Devitt was the best player I've ever seen in a Town shirt and Bolarinwa has loads of potential but must improve his touch and get his feet sorted out quicker. Devitt
McAllister Vs Hudson - Hudson was a workman like midfielder but McAllister looks far better than he did. McAllister
Summerfield V Sweeney - again oh dear, Summerfield has desire and energy plus quality on occasion. Summerfield
Peacock Vs Bogle - different types of player admittedly but Bogle has far more qualities, pace, power and this season touch and awareness against just a big springy jump. Bogle
Jackson Vs Akpa Akpro - Jackson more consistent but on his day JLAA was unstoppable but Jackson for me will be a big part of this season. Jackson.

That's two players and one was a loan player who was awful when he came back, if Berrett came inside and we played Browne I suspect it would only be one. Also just Nolan and Toto would come into the side from last year. Toto for Gowling as I saw Pearson and Toto as the future last season when we went up and Nolan for Berrett who could play that role out wide very well. He played brilliantly there in the most important games of the season. So, in essence what I am saying is that whatever the budget this side once gelled will be very good and will IMO finish between 10th and 14th this season. Then with some shrewd additions because the core of the squad are on two year deals we will be able to challenge. Hope that isn't wishful thinking.
Agree though we need a powerful centre half and a poacher type striker. Good luck Hursty.

Quoted from bax

They've lost £2m for each of the last two seasons. What has that got them?

It's got them 2nd in League 1 with a new ground in the process.

So how much debt are they in or has the money been

1) lent, ie benign loans
2) shares bought
3) money just given as a gift

Expect big signings in Jan with the money generated from the EFL trophy 😉💰💰💰

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I'm happy if we live within our means. Even happier if we can pay of some of the debt. long run this will do us more good. Think we should survive in League 2 this season. Couple of things to sort out in the squad, couple of new players needed.

If at the end of the season we find revenue has gone up 30% and the budget has only gone up 10% then happy days.

THIS^^^

I am shocked that some people think we should be getting into more debt!!!

Sustainability and living within our means has to be the way forward. We can attract decent gates for this level and as such with genuine buy in from the public we can become a force.

I wont comment further on the stupidly vicious attacks on the squad from people  who have seen them in maybe 2 competitive games. Madness, give the squad a little time and I am sure we will not be in a relegation fight.

Am I thick or am I thick ?  I do not understand why as stated in various posts on several occasions that a 2 year deal takes more out of the budget than a 1 year deal. It seems common sense even for a 3 year old but then again I might just be thick.

Quoted from Marinerz93

It's got them 2nd in League 1 with a new ground in the process.

So how much debt are they in or has the money been

1) lent, ie benign loans
2) shares bought
3) money just given as a gift

I think you can no longer put director loans in to top the club up in the football league.  I am under the impression that the money can only be gifted or shares.
Looking at Scunny, they are likely to be in the championship in a new stadium within the next couple of years.

I've got scunthorpe in my lucky 15 bet to win league 1 @ 22/1 so happy that they're doing well, norwich also going ok. Annoyed grimsby and fgr aren't doing much at the moment!

Quoted from Cloudy

THIS^^^

I am shocked that some people think we should be getting into more debt!!!

Sustainability and living within our means has to be the way forward. We can attract decent gates for this level and as such with genuine buy in from the public we can become a force.

I wont comment further on the stupidly vicious attacks on the squad from people  who have seen them in maybe 2 competitive games. Madness, give the squad a little time and I am sure we will not be in a relegation fight.

Common sense says that we should not get into further debt, however we desperately need to be a stable league club again to make the investment into a new stadium viable. If that means we need to spend money on better players then I would rather we spent to ensure survival than ever fall through the trapdoor again.

Quoted from ginnywings

Or just a very much richer Chairman.

We have a Chairman?

I'm happy our club is owned by a true GTFC fan who's made his money out of fish. Mr Fenty's heart is in the right place no question. Watch a re-run of the play off final and you can tell he was giddy and excited. His mistakes have been honest ones. Newell and Woods were poor appointments and we would never have been down there bar a better appointment in place of Newell. I don't want my club to be owned by a Vegan Tw@t or a self obsessed tight Egyptian billionaire. If we finish mid table and we increase revenue more than expenditure then that is success IMO.

Quoted from Mariner_09

I don't want my club to be owned by a Vegan Tw@t or a self obsessed tight Egyptian billionaire. If we finish mid table and we increase revenue more than expenditure then that is success IMO.

What if we increase revenue but are relegated? Revenue sure as hell wouldn't increase again if we did

Quoted from golfer

Am I thick or am I thick ?  I do not understand why as stated in various posts on several occasions that a 2 year deal takes more out of the budget than a 1 year deal. It seems common sense even for a 3 year old but then again I might just be thick.

Amond not looking the great signing or justifying his two years at Hartlepool by the sound of this from the 'Pools forum

'Where have you been Alfa?? Surely you must have heard of 'Podge' (Padraig Amond), our new 30-goal per season striker, the clubs summer 'marquee' signing snatched from non-league during the summer? Did you not hear about yesterday's winning goal that came as a direct result of 'Podges' gaffe who made absolutely no attempt to recover the ball from the 'fat bloke' aka Notts County's Laing who shunted him aside and was then permitted to run 60-70 metres through defence/midfield that opened up like the proverbial Dead Sea? .

Don't get me wrong, I still think'Podge' can do a job for Pools if only as an impact sub but a) he needs to grow a pair and b) needs to start putting a bit of effort into his game instead of strutting about like one of those overpaid tarts who represented 'England' this summer. If he gets even 25% of the goals that he amassed in the donkeys league last season I for one will be amazed however.'

Quoted from Mariner_09

I'm happy our club is owned by a true GTFC fan who's made his money out of fish. Mr Fenty's heart is in the right place no question. Watch a re-run of the play off final and you can tell he was giddy and excited. His mistakes have been honest ones. Newell and Woods were poor appointments and we would never have been down there bar a better appointment in place of Newell. I don't want my club to be owned by a Vegan Tw@t or a self obsessed tight Egyptian billionaire. If we finish mid table and we increase revenue more than expenditure then that is success IMO.

I'll be more than happy if we finish mid-table, I'll be even happier with that outcome if we don't increase our debt but the consequences of going back down again aren't even worth considering. With that in mind, I don't really care who funds our club so long as we maintain league status.

Quoted from malkamalka

We have a Chairman?

What's in a name?

Getting back to the whole budget thing, it's a balancing act isn't it? As the first game of the season shows, we have the capability to attract 6000 fans, but keeping those fans with a side that is losing is not going to happen. Second attendance already down by over 20% and is likely to drop further for the Stevenage game. That's a lot of lost revenue and if we continue to struggle, we will level off around 3500 again in all probability. Do you speculate to accumulate by throwing money at better players and hope the fans come through the turnstiles to pay for the extra outlay, or do you set a budget that is covered by a lower average attendance and hope the players you have can win enough games to keep the gate at a level that exceeds expectations and therefore not have to keep the club afloat with benign loans?

Do you want a club run on a sound financial footing, or a club that shoots for the stars with possibility that you crash and burn. I'm hoping that the board learned it's lesson from our demise into non league and we look to build slowly and surely toward some sort of equilibrium. The last time we were in the league, it got crazy with the amount of players coming in and stealing a wage.

We now need to establish ourselves back in the league, with a good youth system, steady management on and off the pitch and hopefully a new stadium in the not too distant future. A certain amount of trust and patience is required but i know that's difficult for fans given what has happened over the last ten years.

Quoted from Mariner_09

If we finish mid table and we increase revenue more than expenditure then that is success IMO.

Not in mine it isn't. Finishing in the playoffs might suffice.

If all you aim for is mid-table stability you can rest assured you will have a relegation battle to watch at the end of the season.

Quoted from ginnywings

What's in a name?

Getting back to the whole budget thing, it's a balancing act isn't it? As the first game of the season shows, we have the capability to attract 6000 fans, but keeping those fans with a side that is losing is not going to happen. Second attendance already down by over 20% and is likely to drop further for the Stevenage game. That's a lot of lost revenue and if we continue to struggle, we will level off around 3500 again in all probability. Do you speculate to accumulate by throwing money at better players and hope the fans come through the turnstiles to pay for the extra outlay, or do you set a budget that is covered by a lower average attendance and hope the players you have can win enough games to keep the gate at a level that exceeds expectations and therefore not have to keep the club afloat with benign loans?

Do you want a club run on a sound financial footing, or a club that shoots for the stars with possibility that you crash and burn. I'm hoping that the board learned it's lesson from our demise into non league and we look to build slowly and surely toward some sort of equilibrium. The last time we were in the league, it got crazy with the amount of players coming in and stealing a wage.

We now need to establish ourselves back in the league, with a good youth system, steady management on and off the pitch and hopefully a new stadium in the not too distant future. A certain amount of trust and patience is required but i know that's difficult for fans given what has happened over the last ten years.

There is an alternative scenario Ginny. The major shareholder finally manages to put his personal feelings aside and convince someone else with money to come on board. With extra investment we could establish ourselves at least one league higher and I for one would feel a lot more comfortable there than fannying about after a mid-table spot in L2 on some sort of consolidation mission. Consolidation does not win games. Decent players win games.

A new ground is not going to be an income stream unless there are more people at the games. There will not be decent gates to support expenditure unless the club shows ambition and looks as though it may be on the up. That's human nature. York's new ground won't do them much good in the Conference will it?

My worry is that we go back to this "live within our means" kick again. Sometimes you do have to speculate to accumulate and in football there simply is no standing still.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

There is an alternative scenario Ginny. The major shareholder finally manages to put his personal feelings aside and convince someone else with money to come on board. With extra investment we could establish ourselves at least one league higher and I for one would feel a lot more comfortable there than fannying about after a mid-table spot in L2 on some sort of consolidation mission. Consolidation does not win games. Decent players win games.

A new ground is not going to be an income stream unless there are more people at the games. There will not be decent gates to support expenditure unless the club shows ambition and looks as though it may be on the up. That's human nature. York's new ground won't do them much good in the Conference will it?

My worry is that we go back to this "live within our means" kick again. Sometimes you do have to speculate to accumulate and in football there simply is no standing still.

That was the gist of my post really. Which way is the right way?

The club estimate that attendances will see a 20% increase from last season, (or that is what it said on one of the documents on the new stadium which was posted on here ) so my point is, why is the budget only 10% higher, if my source is correct, don't forget ticket prices has rose so that is even more income.

I cannot see anyone coming in with real money to work alongside Mr Fenty.

Quoted from TheCodfather1966

Where do people think getting a new ground will create more revenue !!!  More fans at Peaks Parkway.......... !!!!  I think not, in my humble opinion if we move grounds I think the crowd will slightly decrease.  The bottom line with this club is that we have a negative thinking Board of Directors (with the exception of the odd one) and until this changes it will always be a wing and a prayer.  Certain fans have rose colorured spectacles that is for sure.  Didn't Fenty say that we would build a squad to mount a challenge in this divison ? I believe our only challenge will be staying in this division, we are quite simply ill equipped at the moment.  Moving grounds !!!  What retail opportunities will exist at Peaks Parkway, moving grounds for us will be just the same as when Notts County did it.  We will move our fan base circa 4-6000, to a ground where we rattle around in.  We can certainly grow as a club, I don't doubt this at all, just not under the current Board.

UTM

And you accuse the board of negative thinking, your post is so negative I'd be slitting my wrists if I believed it. Even if the crowd did go down, and I think the average increase is around 40% at new stadia, we'd still have extra income beyond the 25 times a year BP currently gets used. It's this extra income which is the key.

Quoted from GrimRob

And you accuse the board of negative thinking, your post is so negative I'd be slitting my wrists if I believed it. Even if the crowd did go down, and I think the average increase is around 40% at new stadia, we'd still have extra income beyond the 25 times a year BO currently gets used. It's this extra income which is the key.

The smell isn't that bad at BP  ;)

Hope they are not going to charge us £5 a match to park a la Wycombe.

Quoted from Cloudy

I cannot see anyone coming in with real money to work alongside Mr Fenty.

I doubt very much anyone with Monopoly money would be interested

along the theme of the O.P i heard murmurings from matchday staff on Saturday that the turnstile staff maybe asked to turn voluntary now....i wonder if its just been realised they have been getting paid to do it .. ;)

Quoted from friskneymariner

Hope they are not going to charge us £5 a match to park a la Wycombe.

Always plenty of street parking available at Wycombe - housing estates just off the main road from the M40. Save money and getting stuck in that industrial estate road and sliding around the sheep field.

Completely out of proportion I think at this stage, a team we hammered and played off the park with this squad are currently top, another team we were outplaying until 2 individual errors the other days are also near the top after 4 games, we also only lost 1-0 to Derby away with this squad.. Other than one bad blforst half against Colchester ad a few individual lapses in concentration, we had done alright, results will come.

Quoted from golfer

Am I thick or am I thick ?  I do not understand why as stated in various posts on several occasions that a 2 year deal takes more out of the budget than a 1 year deal. It seems common sense even for a 3 year old but then again I might just be thick.

It doesn't. It's just a longer term commitment that might go sour if we get relegated and can't sustain the wages, or if Manager A loses his job and Manager B is allowed to come in and pay off the old bloke's players.

Quoted from springstomind

Completely out of proportion I think at this stage, a team we hammered and played off the park with this squad are currently top, another team we were outplaying until 2 individual errors the other days are also near the top after 4 games, we also only lost 1-0 to Derby away with this squad.. Other than one bad blforst half against Colchester ad a few individual lapses in concentration, we had done alright, results will come.

Don't use up all your excuses too quickly - the way things are looking you might well need them at the end of the season. At least you haven't blamed referees yet (unlike some)

Quoted from Ipswin

Don't use up all your excuses too quickly - the way things are looking you might well need them at the end of the season. At least you haven't blamed referees yet (unlike some)

Do you even want us to do well? Surely its common courtesy to give a team/squad that have not played badly at all some settling in time? The tables don't mean a thing at this stage - one win and we would be mid table.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Do you even want us to do well? Surely its common courtesy to give a team/squad that have not played badly at all some settling in time? The tables don't mean a thing at this stage - one win and we would be mid table.

I think Swin enjoys being a curmudgeon. He is very good at it but i bet he's an old softy that cried at Wembley the same as the rest of us.  :)

Quoted from ginnywings

I think Swin enjoys being a curmudgeon. He is very good at it but i bet he's an old softy that cried at Wembley the same as the rest of us.  :)

Too bloody right I did but having supported GTFC since Christmas Day 1958 I have learned, only too often, that as far as the Mariners are concerned, expecting everything to turn out alright leads only to great disappointment. Blind stupid optimism is painful

I am quite happy to admit that when the poll was put up about Hurst's continuing tenure as manager I voted that he should not carry on after the end of the season even if we were promoted. I still hold that view although of course it is not PC to say so as we managed to scramble up by the skin of our teeth. I am still of the opinion that Hurst is not a Div 2 level manager and is out of his comfort zone and his new team will sadly prove that

I desperately hope I am proved wrong but I state my thoughts now so as not to be accused of jumping on the bandwagon later when, if things do go mammaries up, others start to air the same view.

Quoted from Cloudy

I cannot see anyone coming in with real money to work alongside Mr Fenty.

Wow! Bit early in the season for that old chestnut!

Suffice to say that can of worms has been done to death on here. I've reconciled myself by doing the 'What would I want if I were JF?' argument. I guess I'd want as much of my cash back as it were reasonable to get, given that I've not deliberately set out to make mistakes along the way and basically bankrolled the club through some pretty hard times.

Fair do's Swin and i also wanted Hurst gone but i believe that he deserves a chance at the league and i'm nailing my colours to the mast now also and think we will do ok this season.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Wow! Bit early in the season for that old chestnut!

Suffice to say that can of worms has been done to death on here. I've reconciled myself by doing the 'What would I want if I were JF?' argument. I guess I'd want as much of my cash back as it were reasonable to get, given that I've not deliberately set out to make mistakes along the way and basically bankrolled the club through some pretty hard times.

Nothing to do with the time of season or year.

I do not think anyone would any clout would work with Mr Fenty. Successful businessmen generally make decisions/take risks and do it their way. They are not comfortable sharing things when push comes to shove.

If someone with significant weakth came along and offered King John 50/75% of his loans back in cash AND showed he had the money to invest in improving the club then I think John would seriously consider it. Just cannot see anyone working alongside him

Quoted from ginnywings

Fair do's Swin and i also wanted Hurst gone but i believe that he deserves a chance at the league and i'm nailing my colours to the mast now also and think we will do ok this season.

Desperately hope you are right nothing (apart  from Arnold's goal) would please me more

Quoted from Cloudy

Nothing to do with the time of season or year.

I do not think anyone would any clout would work with Mr Fenty. Successful businessmen generally make decisions/take risks and do it their way. They are not comfortable sharing things when push comes to shove.

If someone with significant weakth came along and offered King John 50/75% of his loans back in cash AND showed he had the money to invest in improving the club then I think John would seriously consider it. Just cannot see anyone working alongside him

Agree. Mike Parker springs to mind. I guess we will never know unless or until someone does come along with a shitload of cash.

Quoted from Mariner_09

I'm happy our club is owned by a true GTFC fan who's made his money out of fish. Mr Fenty's heart is in the right place no question. Watch a re-run of the play off final and you can tell he was giddy and excited. His mistakes have been honest ones. Newell and Woods were poor appointments and we would never have been down there bar a better appointment in place of Newell. I don't want my club to be owned by a Vegan Tw@t or a self obsessed tight Egyptian billionaire. If we finish mid table and we increase revenue more than expenditure then that is success IMO.

Wholeheartedly agree

Quoted from friskneymariner

Hope they are not going to charge us £5 a match to park a la Wycombe.

Of course they will.

Quoted from Mariner_09

I'm happy our club is owned by a true GTFC fan who's made his money out of fish. Mr Fenty's heart is in the right place no question. Watch a re-run of the play off final and you can tell he was giddy and excited. His mistakes have been honest ones. Newell and Woods were poor appointments and we would never have been down there bar a better appointment in place of Newell. I don't want my club to be owned by a Vegan Tw@t or a self obsessed tight Egyptian billionaire. If we finish mid table and we increase revenue more than expenditure then that is success IMO.

It's not success is it? It's meh, and unfortunately not every Town fan is as committed in their support as most on here. Mid-table would be a relief at this stage with how we are playing, but being mid-table means losing a lot of games and the casual supporter will drift away. So next season less budget due to decreased turnstile revenue to keep the success of staying in profit going. I don't advocate the club living beyond its means but at the same time having mid-table as a target of success has its dangers. We are probably going to have a top eight income due to home attendances so I don't think it's unreasonable to say that eighth is where we should expect to finish. Lower then it's relative failure, higher then that's what I call success. If we don't achieve this either our manager isn't good enough or our board isn't giving him enough of the income cake. I know we are all relieved to be back and I think it's clouding our expectations a little. If we are in the bottom half or fighting a relegation battle I'll be really disappointed and no size of positive number on a profit and loss account will make it any better.

So say we make a little profit and mid-fable this season. What are the aims the season after? It can only be the same again surely. Nothing's changed so we can't aim for higher with the same or worse budget scenario. If you think we should then why not this season. It's a feeling of relief that's decreasing expectations rather than the thinking that all teams this season start in the same position, Portsmouth biggest budget then Plymouth etc. To wish away a season on mediocrity is a waste of a season and gives those who are in charge or paid to win games for the club a leeway of relative failure..

But Bigdog, teams in this league will have wealthy owners throwing money at it left right and centre. By that reckoning in the Conference we'd have been promoted first season down there and we'd have never encountered Wrexham in that league. Also Newcastle would challenge for the Premier League title and Bournemouth would be a League 1 club. There is a lot less correlation between size of gate and success than should be the case, but sadly that is how things are.

I know what you are saying but can't think of many sugar daddies in League Two. And if you look down from the Premier League to League Two, apart from a few exceptions the standing of clubs do correlate to the size of clubs. Was just thinking how much of a natural order the leagues look compared to twenty years ago when the Championship was full of Grimsbys, Cambridges, Oxfords, Swindons and Walsalls.

Instead of giving up and calling mid-table a success, what's up with hoping we could be a Burton with the right manager. I just find it all a bit unambitious. I expect it with who we've got in charge and also with the manager we've got but it shouldn't be that way. As fans we should always set reasonable high standards at the start of each season. I don't think under the circumstances that 8th or better isn't unreasonable. If the club ever celebrated finishing twelfth in League Two I'd be pretty disgusted, even though I'd snap your hand off at present with the squad we've put together and how we've started..

Good example Burton. I am not aware that they are wealthy or have big crowds, but they are in The Championship. Success does not necessarily require shed loads of dosh, but it does require a good team.

Burton spend 6 seasons in league 2 before getting promoted, finishing 13th, 19th, 17th, 4th, 6th, and 1st.

Not exactly an overnight success, but they do seem, from a distance, to be better run than Town. New stadium in 2005 as well.

I think we all know that money does not guarantee success, it just shortens the odds. It is still possible for clubs to make it to the top without massive funding but looking at the Championship now you can see a big difference between the haves and have nots. You need good management and luck to overcome the cash handicap.

In L2 the situation is not as bad. We have not yet reached the stage of filling teams with mediocre foreigners. Our mediocre players are still British by and large. As far as Town is concerned I wouldn't fault the manager's recruitment so far and it is great to see a youth set up taking shape as well. But neither of those will work if we are back in the conference for the sake of a few quid.

Nobody is talking about a massive takeover or influx of cash. What we have to recognise though is that confidence amongst the supporters and I suspect in the dressing room is still very fragile. The euphoria of promotion is rapidly giving way to the reality of league football. The demands of L2 are different for players and for managers. Bemoaning poor referees and bad luck is no consolation when relegation is staring you in the face. We've been there, done that.

The manager was right about needing a bigger squad now the loan system has changed but the danger is that the quality of the squad can be diluted. We end up with the same sort of journeymen of the Woods era slogging for survival when we need sparks to push us up the other end of the table.

That's what I mean by the major shareholder getting some more investment. Two or three quality players added to this squad could make all the difference. Two or three of the ordinary freebie type players could make for a hard battle come March next year. In football as in life you most often get what you are prepared to pay for.

If I remember rightly, the Scunts Uncle Steve Wharton cash injected £500k when they were mediocre in League 2 and that catapulted them to the Championship. We the fans raised £100k and that got us Bogle and a togetherness that couldn't be matched by anyone in our league at the time.

The benign loans came when Fenty had an itchy trigger finger, we were also paying back the taxman and the playing budget brought in players like .......(I won't say his name Biccy's  ;D) some of the worst players ever to wear the famous black and white stripes.

I don't believe the board are driven, if they put money into the club it comes across as it's something they have to do because this and that. If they changed their tune to, I'm putting this money in to give us a push for promotion then it changes how people feel about the club. The problem is that I feel we have a negative and reactive board, not a positive and proactive board.

Quoted from Marinerz93

I don't believe the board are driven, if they put money into the club it comes across as it's something they have to do because this and that. If they changed their tune to, I'm putting this money in to give us a push for promotion then it changes how people feel about the club. The problem is that I feel we have a negative and reactive board, not a positive and proactive board.

You are probably right. I can understand the logic of the budget and the demands of ground maintenance, ongoing costs etc. with the need to strengthen the squad for L2. But much of football is about perception and as you say people may be beginning to think the board has regressed into the shell it was in pre-relegation. That was understandable in a way in those days having had to pay off the bunch of wasters Newell left but we went from one extreme to the other, from risk all to risk bu99er all. I'm wondering if we are still in that mindset. The board needs to think forwards not backwards, planned spending on the squad now would reap dividends if we could hit the play-offs.

From what I've seen so far (only 4 games I know) this league doesn't seem anything special.
I feel that us having low expectations and maybe penny pinching a bit and settling for mid table could be an opportunity lost.
Maybe it might be worth pulling out the stops and going for it

Grim Rob.............  You are such a jobsworth with your replies it makes me laugh.  I am negative for stating the obvious.  You think Wycombe are a wealthy club because they have a newer ground than Grimsby..........  Do you realise that Wycombe's ground is basically situated in an Industrial Estate, how the hell does that generate money/ funds / etc etc........  Yet again, you will no doubt be so in the pocket of the club that no logical thinking is allowed, and the slightest criticism of the club is not allowed.  I was supporting this club and always will when you were  probably in short pants or not even on the planet.  I like other fans can see shortcomings and negativity by the hierarchy of the club which has on more than one occasion dragged this club into the gutter.

With the current squad we will be in trouble this year and crowds will slowly dip.  This is all due to a lack of foresight.  Last post from me on this sight I really cannot be bothered with a forum where people cannot express their opinions freely and openly, other than to be questioned by the moderator, or indeed removed by other external sources.  Believe what you like Grim (Reaper) Rob, this club is in a mess once again..........  keep wearing your rose coloured spectacles, that maybe you got a 5% discount off from the club shop........... :)

Have I missed something, where has all this debate about our budget being uncompetitive come from, or is it just purely speculation based on us losing a couple of games and the mascot saga?

I'm sure I remember Hurst saying that he had talked to various L2 manager about the size of budget and had then met with the board to discuss what was needed.

Quoted from TheCodfather1966

Grim Rob.............  You are such a jobsworth with your replies it makes me laugh.  I am negative for stating the obvious.  You think Wycombe are a wealthy club because they have a newer ground than Grimsby..........  Do you realise that Wycombe's ground is basically situated in an Industrial Estate, how the hell does that generate money/ funds / etc etc........  Yet again, you will no doubt be so in the pocket of the club that no logical thinking is allowed, and the slightest criticism of the club is not allowed.  I was supporting this club and always will when you were  probably in short pants or not even on the planet.  I like other fans can see shortcomings and negativity by the hierarchy of the club which has on more than one occasion dragged this club into the gutter.

With the current squad we will be in trouble this year and crowds will slowly dip.  This is all due to a lack of foresight.  Last post from me on this sight I really cannot be bothered with a forum where people cannot express their opinions freely and openly, other than to be questioned by the moderator, or indeed removed by other external sources.  Believe what you like Grim (Reaper) Rob, this club is in a mess once again..........  keep wearing your rose coloured spectacles, that maybe you got a 5% discount off from the club shop........... :)

I am as neutral as anyone else, I think the club will have done more research into the viability of a new ground than you, who haven't even extended your thoughts to the back of a cigarette packet by the sounds of it.

If we can't question other people's opinions then what is the point? I am no different to anyone else, I happen to be a moderator, but I am just a supporter with my own views. If we all agreed then much of the debate on here would disappear.

I would like to see the club live within their means rather than chase success by spending money they haven't got. We've all seen clubs suffer as a result. If that means our natural position remains in the bottom half of this division until we get the extra income streams that the Wycombes of this world have, then so be it.

All well and good in theory..but there'll always be a case of spending money we haven't got. Will we own the new ground? Will we still be beholden to a director/directors/mystery backer/council/whomever?? If the new ground does get go ahead it doesn't necessarily follow that our financial status is automatically in a good state. (That's not to say it won't..in time)

Quoted from GrimRob

I am as neutral as anyone else, I think the club will have done more research into the viability of a new ground than you, who haven't even extended your thoughts to the back of a cigarette packet by the sounds of it.

If we can't question other people's opinions then what is the point? I am no different to anyone else, I happen to be a moderator, but I am just a supporter with my own views. If we all agreed then much of the debate on here would disappear.

I would like to see the club live within their means rather than chase success by spending money they haven't got. We've all seen clubs suffer as a result. If that means our natural position remains in the bottom half of this division until we get the extra income streams that the Wycombes of this world have, then so be it.

Year ending 2015, Wycombe turned over £2.2m, we turned over just under £2m in the Conference. They had Football League payments, we didn't. They had Football League visiting supporters, we had hardly any in the Conference. We do now so I would say our turnover will be higher than theirs this season. It's this sort of resignation without the facts that really cheeses me off. Yes, we've been in the Conference for a while, but due to our home support this season we should have a top half turnover at the very least. To say our natural position in the Football League due to finances is bottom half in League Two is just plainly wrong.

Quoted from Bigdog

Year ending 2015, Wycombe turned over £2.2m, we turned over just under £2m in the Conference. They had Football League payments, we didn't. We do now so I would say our turnover will be higher than theirs this season. It's this sort of resignation without the facts that really cheeses me off. Yes, we've been in the Conference for a while, but due to our home support this season we should have a top half turnover at the very least. To say our natural position in the Football League due to finances is bottom half in League Two is just plainly wrong.

Ironic that I was accusing someone else of "resignation without the facts" (about the new ground in his case) and now I get lumbered with it!

Thanks, I didn't know the figures for Wycombe, but I didn't say that our natural position was in the bottom half, I said if our finances meant that it ended up being there then "so be it".  I'd be very disappointed if we didn't spend every penny of our disposable income on trying to get as high up the table as we can, my only point is that we should try not to overspend unless it's budgeted for (the accusation made by the OP). I don't pretend to know where our budget would place us in the pecking order, I'd assume somewhere around halfway but I stand to be corrected.

Quoted from Bigdog

Year ending 2015, Wycombe turned over £2.2m, we turned over just under £2m in the Conference. They had Football League payments, we didn't. We do now so I would say our turnover will be higher than theirs this season. It's this sort of resignation without the facts that really cheeses me off. Yes, we've been in the Conference for a while, but due to our home support this season we should have a top half turnover at the very least. To say our natural position in the Football League due to finances is bottom half in League Two is just plainly wrong.

Yes.

If we aim to be at the top of L2 we may end up in the bottom half.

If we accept our natural position is in the bottom half of L2 we WILL be in the bottom half of L2 ............ or worse.

Like I said before, nobody expects a sudden input of millions from a new fairy godfather investor or a takeover. The point is as much psychological as financial. Some final signings for the squad that indicate positive intent on the part of the board.  Something that tells the fans "We are prepared to push the boat out and go for the next level". Steady Eddie is not the way to success in football.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Yes.

If we aim to be at the top of L2 we may end up in the bottom half.

If we accept our natural position is in the bottom half of L2 we WILL be in the bottom half of L2 ............ or worse.

Like I said before, nobody expects a sudden input of millions from a new fairy godfather investor or a takeover. The point is as much psychological as financial. Some final signings for the squad that indicate positive intent on the part of the board.  Something that tells the fans "We are prepared to push the boat out and go for the next level". Steady Eddie is not the way to success in football.

This is the thing that annoys me RRFC - our neighbours down the road seem to be taking that sort of initiative whilst we remain more bothered about saving pennies. Brings back the old adage about 'penny rich, pound thick'.

Good post RRFC. Broadly agree with Rob  though too and think he makes some good points on this thread.

Amazing. All this talk about the club's finances and ambitions when few if any of us know any financial facts about the current situation. We don't know the budget, or how much is for playing staff. We do not know the salary structure or what income has been assumed. We don't know how much of the playing budget has already been spent, yet there are people suggesting the club can just go out and splash cash they may not have on players that may not be available or prepared to come here. All because we have lost 3 games. Had this not been the case this topic would not even be debated. Some people need a reality check and let those with the facts get on with it.

If our 'spending within our means' budget leads to our 'natural position' being in the bottom half then it is necessary to question whether it is false economy as lower half inevitably means lower attendances, in fact I think they will be seen to be dropping very soon and only an outside hope of the playoffs will turn them around again.

Quoted from oldun

Amazing. All this talk about the club's finances and ambitions when few if any of us know any financial facts about the current situation. We don't know the budget, or how much is for playing staff. We do not know the salary structure or what income has been assumed. We don't know how much of the playing budget has already been spent, yet there are people suggesting the club can just go out and splash cash they may not have on players that may not be available or prepared to come here. All because we have lost 3 games. Had this not been the case this topic would not even be debated. Some people need a reality check and let those with the facts get on with it.

The majority of a club's income is home attendances coupled with the Football League payment which is the same for every club, so it is reasonable to assume that there is a correlation with playing budget which in turn should correlate with fan expectation. I'm guessing there's more expectation at Portsmouth than there is at Newport. The debate is ambition and whether we've got the personnel to get the best out of our budget.

PH has already said that he needs to add to the squad so there's no harm in hoping for game changing signings rather than squad fillers. I've seen enough of the players to think that two or three won't cut it if we're going to be successful at this level. Win. lose or draw it can be easy to see a player's shortcomings. So there's massive expectation from me that PH will get some signings in before the transfer window closes that will improve our starting XI.

Quoted from Cloudy

Nothing to do with the time of season or year.

I do not think anyone would any clout would work with Mr Fenty. Successful businessmen generally make decisions/take risks and do it their way. They are not comfortable sharing things when push comes to shove.

If someone with significant weakth came along and offered King John 50/75% of his loans back in cash AND showed he had the money to invest in improving the club then I think John would seriously consider it. Just cannot see anyone working alongside him

As the man himself proved.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

This is the thing that annoys me RRFC - our neighbours down the road seem to be taking that sort of initiative whilst we remain more bothered about saving pennies. Brings back the old adage about 'penny rich, pound thick'.

What sort of debt do Scunny have? Is it going up/down?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

What sort of debt do Scunny have? Is it going up/down?

Their debts are going up but that's the point. They are spending to climb the football ladder, we spent/accumulated debt whilst we were going down.