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The crowd at Wembley last night for an important World Cup qualifier.

I genuinely can't remember such a low crowd for a game as important as this one. I was working, but couldn't even be bothered to get commentary on the radio. Checked occasionally on my phone. Something I would never have dreamed of 20 years ago.

I think the England support is still fantastic, given the performances over the last 20 years (or more), but judging from last nights crowd enough is enough.  One of the things I haven't done yet is to take my lad to a competitive  England game (home or away).  It will still be done, but to be honest I think Euro's 2020 or the build up is the most likely.  Yet again, the problem is that the actual money through the turnstiles is such a small percentage of the income that the old farts association do not need to worry.  I can't see much changing in the near future to be honest.  We'll still qualify for competitions, than fall at the first real hurdle.

Quoted from Civvy at last

The crowd at Wembley last night for an important World Cup qualifier.

I genuinely can't remember such a low crowd for a game as important as this one. I was working, but couldn't even be bothered to get commentary on the radio. Checked occasionally on my phone. Something I would never have dreamed of 20 years ago.

I think the England support is still fantastic, given the performances over the last 20 years (or more), but judging from last nights crowd enough is enough.  One of the things I haven't done yet is to take my lad to a competitive  England game (home or away).  It will still be done, but to be honest I think Euro's 2020 or the build up is the most likely.  Yet again, the problem is that the actual money through the turnstiles is such a small percentage of the income that the old farts association do not need to worry.  I can't see much changing in the near future to be honest.  We'll still qualify for competitions, than fall at the first real hurdle.

I think you're a bit wrong here; the only reason it wasn't 80,000+ is down to UEFA.  Why on earth would you make England play on a Monday night?  It's all very well making the kid's tickets £10 (and fair play to the FA for that), but there's not a chance that I could take my kids to a game unless it was on a Saturday, or latest, Sunday lunchtime.  It's ludicrous.

Having said that, yes, there is a negative response to England nowadays, and justifiably so, after that Iceland debacle.  I personally will never ditch the England team, and I'm always pleased when we win, and gutted when we lose.  I still want to us to make all the tournaments, and one day not too soon we'll do OK, and the fans will get into it again.

The game was alright last night, actually.  I agree that the Malta game, for 85 minutes at least, was appalling, and Southgate with his 2 holding midfielders needs his head examining against opposition like that, but in general we are very, very harsh on the England players.  I've been gutted and upset in the past about some defeats, but Iceland was something different; it was utter embarrassment, a new feeling for me really.  Hopefully getting to the 1/4 Finals next year will appease us all a bit, they really need to.  

Having said that, though, we do not have players anywhere near the capability of Ferdinand, Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham, Scholes and Owen nowadays, so we're up against it.  We need to be realistic, and the fact that we won't be seeded next year will hopefully make people realise that 13th in the World rankings is about right.  We are 2nd tier right now, and we don't have any God-given right to do well.

I think that they said last night that England are still the best supported team in the world in home qualifying games.

They said in 2nd place was DR Congo!!

I don't really get that excited watching England these days. Even when we went 1-0 down last night, I felt kind of numb... but then I got into it because we were up against it and had something to fight for.

I think a lack of passion/interest is down to playing so many games that either don't mean anything - or they do mean something, but they're against the weaker teams like Malta, San Marino, etc, which is a walk in the park (and also massively frustrating, e.g. Malta on Friday night).

If England are playing against opposition that will genuinely give them a game, and there's something to play for, I'll get behind them. Sadly, too many England games just don't have that 'edge'.

I can remember them getting 15000 for a friendly at Wembley once

Quoted from Heisenberg

I think you're a bit wrong here; the only reason it wasn't 80,000+ is down to UEFA.  Why on earth would you make England play on a Monday night?  It's all very well making the kid's tickets £10 (and fair play to the FA for that), but there's not a chance that I could take my kids to a game unless it was on a Saturday, or latest, Sunday lunchtime.  It's ludicrous.

Having said that, yes, there is a negative response to England nowadays, and justifiably so, after that Iceland debacle considering our record since Euro 96 I personally will never ditch the England team, and I'm always pleased when we win, and gutted when we lose.  I still want to us to make all the tournaments, and one day not too soon we'll do OK, and the fans will get into it again.

Loads of reasons why,
our poor performances,
timing of the game coinciding when school hols have just finished,
last 20 yrs (or more) being pretty much unsuccessful
lack of affinity to the Premier era players who seem to stroll around doing very little except avoiding getting injured when wearing the England shirt,
The FA's decision to rebuild Wembley in a non central location so the North of the country cant easily access it on a school night

30 mins away in London , cheap tickets and still not interested. Totally lost interest in the national team as not competitive, worn down by endless failure and this team does not look better to me

Quoted from moosey_club

Loads of reasons why,
our poor performances,
timing of the game coinciding when school hols have just finished,
last 20 yrs (or more) being pretty much unsuccessful
lack of affinity to the Premier era players who seem to stroll around doing very little except avoiding getting injured when wearing the England shirt,
The FA's decision to rebuild Wembley in a non central location so the North of the country cant easily access it on a school night

You also mentioned lack of success, and of course you're bang on.  It made me think of '96 and onwards, and my assessment would be:

'96 - robbed, should have won it (although how we beat Spain is beyond me, we were awful that day; apart from that, a massive missed opportunity)
'98 - robbed, had a good team, although wouldn't have won it as France were destined
'00 - pretty drab, apart from beating the Germans
'02 - should have won it, squad littered with excellent players.  Lost to an average Brazil team as it was too hot!  Again, missed opportunity.
'04 - Rooney Magic.  As soon as he got injured, we wilted
'06 - again, Portugal our nemesis.  And we weren't good enough.
'08 - didn't quality, awful team completely mismanaged by McLaren.  Dropped Beckham, we did badly, he came back too late to save us.  Awful times.
'10 - terrible.  Capello clueless.
'12 - great win over Sweden, somehow won the group, then limped out against an average Italy.  Poor.
'14 - bad from the word go.  Lowest finish ever by an England team.  Hodgson keeps his job!!
'16 - Iceland.  I mean, come on, ICELAND, FFS!!!!

Some ups and downs, but some would say they were all downs!

Having said that, I'm a sadist; I'm still glued when they're on in the vain hope we've improved.  We never do.......

I'd describe Euro 2000 as utter shite!