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cmackenzie4
July 19, 2017, 3:41pm

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What do We think about the news of the changes in the state pension then?

It now means people who were born between 6th April 1970 to 5th April 1978 will have to work a year longer before they can claim state pension 67 to 68 this as been brought forward by seven years, I was born 23rd Jan 1970 so looks like I could have just made it but it affects my wife as she was born in 1975.

Looks like a lot of people will have to work into there 70's in years to come, I'm so glad I'm paying into a railway pension scheme and can take it at sixty

Where does this leave you then with regarding the changes?


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Maringer
July 19, 2017, 4:31pm
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Hopefully, we'll have taken a more sensible attitude to things by then and it won't be as much of an issue. New technology (AI and robotics/automation) is going to make a huge number of jobs redundant in the next decade or two and nobody in government/politics has given this a second thought as yet. We'll need to change our whole economic set up to cope with this and our ever-aging population.

Interesting times ahead:

https://www.theguardian.com/bu.....exit-report-predicts
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cmackenzie4
July 19, 2017, 4:35pm

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My worry is Maringer those of us who have paid into a Private pension will be penalised in our later years, surely they will make the state pension means tested in years to come, what's your take on this?


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Maringer
July 19, 2017, 5:04pm
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I think a citizens income is really going to be the only way forward - a guaranteed income at a level which will enable everybody to feed, houses and clothe themselves comfortably. This would make the state pension pretty much redundant. I expec that those with private pensions would still get their additional income though I think the extremely generous tax relief currently available would have to go.

A long way to go before this becomes a possibility, however. The housing market is so horribly broken as it stands that we'll need a complete collapse (or two) before prices reach an affordable level for most and millions will be left out of pocket from this - not to mention the banks who will again need to be bailed out (or probably privatised). General taxation levels will have to go up a good deal as well to fund the citizens income and pay for care for the elderly which will quickly become unaffordable in the current way things are organised due to the aging population. Possibly large government-funded social housing developments for the elderly will be required? We'll need serious wealth taxes to reduce the ever-increasing inequality (Land Value Tax is my guess) and shut down the present move to a rentier economy which does nothing but fill the pockets of the wealthy at the expense of innovation and productivity.

My only hope is that the technology which will take away so many jobs on the one hand will enable us to do so much more on the other. Energy prices a massive issue at present - I'd favour massive roll-out of nuclear power to resolve this issue for good, but the Greens are hoping for massive roll-out of renewables to do the same job. Either way, all of it depends on future improvements in technology and if either route works out, we'll have a solid basis to work from if we're not reliant on spending so much on oil and gas from overseas. Plentiful energy would make all sorts of recycling technology more affordable which would reduce our need for other resources.

All in all, there are so many massively complex issues which will have to be dealt with that it makes my head hurt so I'm not thinking about it much!
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codcheeky
July 19, 2017, 7:45pm
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Very sneaky, no mention of this in their manifesto,  released the news after PMQ's  on the day BBC pay announced as well, just before the summer break, its almost as if they are a little embarrassed if that is possible for this inept crew.  Work till you drop under the Tories
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barralad
July 19, 2017, 11:07pm
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I'd recommend anyone to ask for a state pension forecast of what you are likely to get at retirement. The rule used to be that you couldnt increase your pension after you'd paid contributions for 30 years. Now you lose one years entitlement in pounds and pence per yera you don't work. I retired at 56 after 38 years in my job. My pension forecast shows a reduction from the max. figure of £155 to reflect the fact I'm unlikely to pay any further contributions until my retirement pension kicks in at 66. Was a bit of a shock. You can pay the extra as a lump sum but the cost is considerable if like me you aren't now in work.


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KingstonMariner
July 19, 2017, 11:41pm
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What you're saying Maringer, in simple terms, is we need more socialism not less.


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For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Maringer
July 20, 2017, 12:00am
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Lots more socialism. Naturally.  

No way that the current neo-lib capitalist system can deal with the aging population in pretty much every developed country. I think it likely that it will require the almost complete collapse of this system for an alternative to be proposed or accepted, however.

If scientists can develop a cure/treatment for many of the common types of dementia pretty sharpish, we may be able to kick the can down the road a little longer, but this seems unlikely. We're facing an utterly unprecedented situation never before seen in history where a huge chunk of the population will be geriatrics who are expensively dependent on an ever-dwindling proportion of younger workers/carers.

You'd think older Conservatives would consider this as they vote to support Tory policies of shafting the young for the benefit of old voters. At some point, they are going to be utterly reliant on these younger people who I don't think will forget how difficult they've had things in comparison to the couple of generations.

OK, it's not likely to be Logan's Run territory, but still...  
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ginnywings
July 20, 2017, 12:26am

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Yeah but CEO's in the city will be "earning" 9.5 million, so not all bad news.
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cmackenzie4
July 20, 2017, 8:14am

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Quoted from barralad
I'd recommend anyone to ask for a state pension forecast of what you are likely to get at retirement. The rule used to be that you couldnt increase your pension after you'd paid contributions for 30 years. Now you lose one years entitlement in pounds and pence per yera you don't work. I retired at 56 after 38 years in my job. My pension forecast shows a reduction from the max. figure of £155 to reflect the fact I'm unlikely to pay any further contributions until my retirement pension kicks in at 66. Was a bit of a shock. You can pay the extra as a lump sum but the cost is considerable if like me you aren't now in work.


Anyone who wants to check their state pension forecast can do so at GOV.UK and register, it's easy enough.


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scrumble
July 20, 2017, 8:41am

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I'm assuming this will apply to MP's pensions as well?

All this on the same day we find out Gary Lineker gets paid £2m to talk balderdash about football


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ginnywings
July 20, 2017, 8:57am

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I wonder what the people who voted to come out of the EU on immigration grounds will make of the article Maringer linked to. They will say it's lefty scaremongering i suppose but it's too late now.
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Southwark Mariner
July 20, 2017, 11:24am
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Quoted from Maringer


OK, it's not likely to be Logan's Run territory, but still...  


So I had the idea of shoving lots of old people onto old cruise ships, sailing them over to somewhere where nursing care is super cheap and moor up. Relatives can fly over to visit if they want, but the old people get lovely warm weather, good healthcare at an affordable price to the country...with the occasional shipping disaster. I was going to call it Carousel Cruises.

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KingstonMariner
July 20, 2017, 8:09pm
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Quoted from Southwark Mariner


So I had the idea of shoving lots of old people onto old cruise ships, sailing them over to somewhere where nursing care is super cheap and moor up. Relatives can fly over to visit if they want, but the old people get lovely warm weather, good healthcare at an affordable price to the country...with the occasional shipping disaster. I was going to call it Carousel Cruises.



and be cared for by the same people who used to do it here! Neat  


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arryarryarry
August 9, 2017, 4:13pm
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Quoted from ginnywings
I wonder what the people who voted to come out of the EU on immigration grounds will make of the article Maringer linked to. They will say it's lefty scaremongering i suppose but it's too late now.


Mmmm a left wing think tank article in the anti-Brexit Guardian.

The words Bull & excrement spring to mind.
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Maringer
August 9, 2017, 4:34pm
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Anyone with half an ounce of sense is anti-Brexit, but there you go.

As for me linking a report from a left-wing think tank which is open about it's funding, well, there's nothing wrong with that.

Feel free to link to reports from any of the right-wing think tanks we hear so much about in the media such as Policy Exchange, Adam Smith Institute and Institute of Economic Affairs etc etc who for some reason refuse to reveal who actually funds them. They must be trustworthy, eh?

That said, even these palpably dishonest right-wing think tanks don't support Brexit, so that might be a trouble.
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arryarryarry
August 9, 2017, 6:26pm
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Quoted from Maringer
Anyone with half an ounce of sense is anti-Brexit, but there you go.

As for me linking a report from a left-wing think tank which is open about it's funding, well, there's nothing wrong with that.

Feel free to link to reports from any of the right-wing think tanks we hear so much about in the media such as Policy Exchange, Adam Smith Institute and Institute of Economic Affairs etc etc who for some reason refuse to reveal who actually funds them. They must be trustworthy, eh?

That said, even these palpably dishonest right-wing think tanks don't support Brexit, so that might be a trouble.


In your opinion, shame not more voted to stay then so obviously not enough with 1/2 an ounce of sense.
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Maringer
August 9, 2017, 11:50pm
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Apparently not, though I'd hope that a lot of those who voted to leave had just been misled by the dishonest claims of some of the more rabid Brexiteers. Regardless, the overall quality of the debate was so poor that most people didn't have a clue what leaving the EU would entail even as they voted. Just like most of the politicians in government now. And many of those outside it, for that matter.

The negotiations have barely begun and it is cringeworthy just how poorly prepared we already appear to be. Not surprising when you see the clowns who have been put in place to take the fall when it goes mammaries up.
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Grim74
August 10, 2017, 9:35am
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Quoted from Maringer
Apparently not, though I'd hope that a lot of those who voted to leave had just been misled by the dishonest claims of some of the more rabid Brexiteers. Regardless, the overall quality of the debate was so poor that most people didn't have a clue what leaving the EU would entail even as they voted.


I beg to differ every home in the Country was given this biased propaganda and the Majority still voted out we knew exactly what we was voting for.
https://www.gov.uk/government/.....-decision-for-the-uk

A once in a generation decision it concludes.... we are leaving so accept it.


Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Promise a man someone else's fish and he votes Labour.
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grimsby pete
August 10, 2017, 10:56am

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Any Prime Minister with any sense at all would not have given the country the right to leave,

IF they felt there was any chance of us voting to leave ,

BUT

He did and we did so lets see what happens before there is any more doom and gloom posts.


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139914
August 11, 2017, 8:48am
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Wtf is going on, I was led to believe that serps and/or state second pensions were being protected?  A couple of years ago my state pension forecast was £204 per week, now it's  £168.  Htf does that work?  
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Marinerz93
August 12, 2017, 11:56pm

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Quoted from Maringer
Anyone with half an ounce of sense is anti-Brexit, but there you go.
.


So you think it is sensible to stay part of a union that is protectionist, is run by unelected beauracrats making rules based on lobbying by corporations, undemocratic in voting as highlighted by UK MEP's and unaccountable with the trillions we have paid in. You'll be telling me next that Guy Verhofstadt is right in everything he says and Jean-Claude Juncker is a trusted and able political leader who we should do everything he says.

What are your thoughts on how the EU is treating Poland on the issue of refusing to take refugees / illegal immigrants.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

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chaos33
August 13, 2017, 9:34pm
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Some good points there. This is probably the first time I've disagreed with Maringer politically. Lexit was my position, primarily for reasons of democracy.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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Maringer
August 14, 2017, 2:20pm
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Quoted from Marinerz93


So you think it is sensible to stay part of a union that is protectionist, is run by unelected beauracrats making rules based on lobbying by corporations, undemocratic in voting as highlighted by UK MEP's and unaccountable with the trillions we have paid in. You'll be telling me next that Guy Verhofstadt is right in everything he says and Jean-Claude Juncker is a trusted and able political leader who we should do everything he says.

What are your thoughts on how the EU is treating Poland on the issue of refusing to take refugees / illegal immigrants.


The EU is run by unelected bureacrats (the EU commission) in the same way that the UK is run by unelected bureaucrats (the civil service). I'm not too well up on the exact structure but understand that each member country appoints a commissioner and MEPs vote on which one of these becomes President. If they don't like the make up of the commission, the MEPs can dissolve it entirely upon a vote of no confidence. Doesn't sound entirely unelected to me. It is also my understanding that the various policy initiatives are bashed out by ministers from all the member states before being implemented by the commission so we can't really complain about that, either. Perhaps Farage and his UKIP cronies ought to have spent more time actually attending the European Parliament instead of just hoovering up the money and appearing for the odd grandstanding speech?

The daftest thing is that so many have an imagined vision that there is some sort of vast and profligate bureaucracy in the background wasting money left, right and centre. The actual numbers of EU bureaucrats are around 23,000 which operates a body representing 500 million citizens. Compare and contrast this figure to the UK Civil Service which has well over 400,000 civil servants at the moment, despite the fact that the Tories have been actively slashing this back.

Also, let's not be bloody silly here. The 'trillions' we have paid in? Utter nonsense, even if you are just aiming for hyperbole. The amount we have paid has certainly gone up due to additional expenditure since the crash in 2008, but supposedly, it is to fall in the future. Not sure of the exact total amount but look at the wiggly black line and you'll see it will adds up to not a vast amount when you consider it is spread over 40 years or so:

[img]https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/EU%20contributions%20since%201973%20updated%202016%20prices.JPG[/img]

An expense well worth paying for membership of the world's largest and wealthiest trading bloc who happen to be our nearest geographical neighbours as well. Interestingly enough, I remember reading somewhere that the recession which seems but certain to hit when Brexit finally takes place is likely to cost us more than 40-odd years of EU membership have! Our GDP currently stands around £2 trillion. Knock a few percentage points off that with a recession and you're talking vast costs both to the country and individuals.

As to your other question, I've been on holiday and then too busy to keep up with news over the past couple of weeks, but a quick glance through the news makes me think there is nothing wrong with the commission having a go at those east European countries who are refusing to fulfil their obligations to rehouse refugees. You can't be a member of a club and then pick and choose which agreements you want to follow. By refusing to accept any refugees they are saying 'screw you' to their fellow members Greece and Italy who are the ones picking up the tab at the moment. Hardly ideal but relocating 120,000 into a population of more than 500 million is basically a rounding error.

Anyway, don't mistake me for a big supporter of the EU as it has, perhaps unsurprisingly, become thoroughly neoliberal in bent in recent decades, with the ECB in particular being guilty of disgraceful and economically incompetent treatment of the Greeks which has destroyed their economy.

However, I still think it is better to be inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in when you're dealing with your local trading bloc. The EU needs to be reformed and the best way to do this would be from within, not by jumping first at great cost to ourselves. Need I mention the fact that we're currently governed by a bunch of incompetent and dishonest clownshoes who couldn't negotiate a functional deal if their lives depended on it?
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Marinerz93
August 21, 2017, 8:27pm

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The policy initiatives are not bashed out by ministers from all the member states before being implemented by the commission, they are formed by beauracrats who are lobbied by corporations and MEPS have to vote on them. The first sight of some of these initiatives / regulations are at the voting point  when a number is read out and a vote is called when the interpreters can't keep up or interpret something wrong which has been highlighted many times.

How much has Britain paid into the EU since we joined, I read somewhere it was over 2 trillion but reading other sources other reports state that is our stake in the EU with all the property we have partly paid for and what our percentage as a net contributor is worth. So I can concede the initial figure I posted is inaccurate, Britain has paid in £503billion since the country became a full member of the European Economic Community at the beginning of 1973.

According to Treasury forecasts, Britain is expected to stump up another £96billion over the next five years. That figure will rise should the EU Army be formed as some want it. Also that tent you speak of, will be full of refugees and if you don't take what's forced on you, you'll be fined €250,000 euros per rejected refugee.

The Brussels accounts have not been given the all clear for 19 years running. If this was a company in the UK they would be held to account and prosecuted.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

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Maringer
August 21, 2017, 10:51pm
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Quoted from Marinerz93
How much has Britain paid into the EU since we joined, I read somewhere it was over 2 trillion but reading other sources other reports state that is our stake in the EU with all the property we have partly paid for and what our percentage as a net contributor is worth. So I can concede the initial figure I posted is inaccurate, Britain has paid in £503billion since the country became a full member of the European Economic Community at the beginning of 1973.

According to Treasury forecasts, Britain is expected to stump up another £96billion over the next five years. That figure will rise should the EU Army be formed as some want it. Also that tent you speak of, will be full of refugees and if you don't take what's forced on you, you'll be fined €250,000 euros per rejected refugee.

The Brussels accounts have not been given the all clear for 19 years running. If this was a company in the UK they would be held to account and prosecuted.


Well, wherever the 'somewhere' you read £2 trillion was, it was complete, utter bullshite of the most laughably dishonest kind. Look at the wiggly black line in the chart I posted and add each year together. Guessing it will average around £5 billion per year at current prices so not much north of £200 billion over a period of more than 40 years. The £500 billion you mention no doubt conveniently ignores both the rebate we receive and the money which comes back into the UK from the EU. Similarly your £96 billion figure won't be the net figure, either. As I've said in the past, EU membership isn't cheap, but a fee worth paying for membership of the world's largest trading bloc and all that entails. Once again, if Brexit brings on a major recession as expected, it will cost us more than 40+ years of EU membership have!

EU Army? More right-wing scaremongering. Lest we forget, nothing gets done in the EU without unanimous approval from the members. Don't want an EU Army (as most don't)? Don't vote for it.

https://fullfact.org/europe/hunt-eu-army/

Let's not forget that much of the barmy right-wing media will write any number of nonsense stories to promote the aims of their wealthy owners. The compulsory EU Army stuff is just another of these.

The refugees thing is very simple. If you're part of a union and an agreement was made (with input from everybody), you should follow through and commit to your promises. The Nationalist rhetoric from the east European countries means they are putting their own politics ahead of their agreed obligations so no wonder they stand to be penalised. The numbers we're talking about here are a rounding error in comparison to the EU population.

'Accounts not being given the all clear'? It doesn't mean what you think it does:

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/the-eu-accounts-have-never-been-signed-off/

Firstly, I think you assume rather too much about the accuracy of UK company accounts, especially those from large companies or conglomerates, especially if one of the 'Big Four' accountancy companies are doing the auditing! Secondly, why would a country or a group of countries have 'accounts' anything like those of a company?!?

The accounts are accepted as a fair and accurate representation which is about as close as you're going to get for a body representing so many countries, citizens, companies, organisations and the like. This is yet another non-story promulgated by the anti-EU right-wing press.
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Marinerz93
August 22, 2017, 1:06am

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Quoted from Maringer


Well, wherever the 'somewhere' you read £2 trillion was, it was complete, utter bullshite of the most laughably dishonest kind.

EU Army? More right-wing scaremongering. Lest we forget, nothing gets done in the EU without unanimous approval from the members. Don't want an EU Army (as most don't)? Don't vote for it.

https://fullfact.org/europe/hunt-eu-army/

Let's not forget that much of the barmy right-wing media will write any number of nonsense stories to promote the aims of their wealthy owners. The compulsory EU Army stuff is just another of these.

The refugees thing is very simple. If you're part of a union and an agreement was made (with input from everybody), you should follow through and commit to your promises. The Nationalist rhetoric from the east European countries means they are putting their own politics ahead of their agreed obligations so no wonder they stand to be penalised. The numbers we're talking about here are a rounding error in comparison to the EU population.

'Accounts not being given the all clear'? It doesn't mean what you think it does:

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/the-eu-accounts-have-never-been-signed-off/

Firstly, I think you assume rather too much about the accuracy of UK company accounts, especially those from large companies or conglomerates, especially if one of the 'Big Four' accountancy companies are doing the auditing! Secondly, why would a country or a group of countries have 'accounts' anything like those of a company?!?

The accounts are accepted as a fair and accurate representation which is about as close as you're going to get for a body representing so many countries, citizens, companies, organisations and the like. This is yet another non-story promulgated by the anti-EU right-wing press.


The 2 trillion is Britain's cut of the EU property and infrastructure it has paid into since 1973.

The EU army has been called for and plans are in motion to develop it. Listen to Guy Vehoftadt from 15 mins in and he is a liberal not right as you declare it has been stirred up.

[youtube]bOAhH7EeJAQ[/youtube]

If you are paying into something you need to know where your money is going otherwise they do what they want and looking at their wages and expenses it seems they are.

The EU sees us as a cash cow and they will milk us dry, with what they have planned.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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Grim74
August 22, 2017, 8:17pm
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Quoted from Maringer


The Nationalist rhetoric from the east European countries means they are putting their own politics ahead of their agreed obligations so no wonder they stand to be penalised.




No they are carrying out the first rule of government to protect its citizens, which is why we are not seeing these kind of attacks in Eastern Europe.



Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Promise a man someone else's fish and he votes Labour.
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grimsby pete
August 22, 2017, 9:42pm

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The best advice I can give to the younger posters is take out your own retirement plan as early as possible and put in as much as you can afford.

The amount the government will give back to you after paying in all your working life will get smaller and smaller,

The main problem is we are all living longer so your state pension will be paid later and it will be a lot less than it has been.

My wife used to say to me why am I putting so much money in ,

She is now grateful I did.


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cmackenzie4
August 23, 2017, 8:12am

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Putting into a pension is a must now Pete but my main concern is that those of us who do will get penalised and get a lesser state pension than somebody who has not contributed to a private pension.

I know a friend who gets his state pension topped up with pension credits (which entitles him to other things too)  yet my other friend who gets a private pension is penalised, my friend who has a private pension is better off but only by £45.00 a week yet he contributed to it for 33 years


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grimsby pete
August 23, 2017, 10:16am

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That's the way this country works Chris I am afraid,

Look at all the lazy sods who don't want to work but are happy to live on benefits,

I know you are like me and would find it hard to be out of work and would do anything to find a job,

You will do what is best for you and your family but some don't give a fig.


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Maringer
August 23, 2017, 10:22am
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Quoted from Grim74


No they are carrying out the first rule of government to protect its citizens, which is why we are not seeing these kind of attacks in Eastern Europe.



If the attacks were being carried out by refugees from Syria and Iraq, you might have a point. They aren't, so you don't.
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grimsby pete
August 23, 2017, 10:27am

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Quoted from Maringer


If the attacks were being carried out by refugees from Syria and Iraq, you might have a point. They aren't, so you don't.


I think there has been several car bombs going off in Iraq over the last few years so they are not immune from the problem.


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cmackenzie4
August 23, 2017, 10:49am

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Quoted from grimsby pete
That's the way this country works Chris I am afraid,

Look at all the lazy sods who don't want to work but are happy to live on benefits,

I know you are like me and would find it hard to be out of work and would do anything to find a job,

You will do what is best for you and your family but some don't give a fig.


I'll always work and provide for my family Pete, I pride myself on this, I'd do any job to provide for my Children & Wife, it does pay off though Pete (children seeing their parents work) because Harry has got a gardening job at 16 and loves it, he starts college in September and can't wait to work full time, we've instilled good morals to our children (I hope!😎)

I'm just concerned about the state of the future state pension, will the state pension be about then? Irrespective of one paying his/her full N/I contributions, I just can't see it myself, but who knows Pete.


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Marinerz93
August 23, 2017, 11:27am

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Quoted from cmackenzie4
Putting into a pension is a must now Pete but my main concern is that those of us who do will get penalised and get a lesser state pension than somebody who has not contributed to a private pension.

I know a friend who gets his state pension topped up with pension credits (which entitles him to other things too)  yet my other friend who gets a private pension is penalised, my friend who has a private pension is better off but only by £45.00 a week yet he contributed to it for 33 years


You've raised a valid point there Chris, you have a personal pension you lose out, not just at pensionable age but also before you become a person of leisure. When I left the forces I couldn't get the sort of work I wanted to do, so I went on a course and tried to claim job seekers, because I got a small HM Forces pension all I was entitled to was having my stamped paid, I didn't get JSA. Also ironically because my wife claimed the family credits thing by the time I got into work we had claimed £1,400 of which we had to pay every penny back due to that tax year and in that period I got work to the April I had paid exactly £1,400 in tax.

Also my dad died quiet young but he took out a pension through work so my mum got a pension to look after me and my brother but that was reduced when we were 16. My step dad was a fireman but retired through ill health and when he died my mum got a part of his pension, so she gets 2 small pensions and a state pension which takes her above the poverty line. She then gets taxed which takes her below the poverty line but because she is above to start with she isn't entitled to anything.

I have like I said a Forces pension that I will be able to claim in full at 55, I am currently paying into a pension with my job now which I can claim at 62 I think, I believe in the future the state pension will be means tested and because I will have 2 reasonable pensions, I won't be able to claim it so I may end up retiring early.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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cmackenzie4
August 23, 2017, 11:59am

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That is exactly my point Dave, I'll be getting a forces pension too but only a small one due to the minimal time served compared to you, it just seems a bit odd that the Government are now forcing companies to provide a private pension for their employees, there must be a reason for that other than what they say in having more money in your older years, maybe I'm a cynic but I don't think that is the main reason do you mate? it's got to become means tested surely! I'm sure I read somewhere that within the next 25-30 years there will be the highest percentage of the population at 67-68 than there ever as been  (this is our age group Dave 47 upwards)

I have a decent pension on the railway which I can have a lump sum option ( various options) at 60 and I've decided that I will be taking the full lump sum with a reduced pension, is this what you are doing?

How did the increased state pension age affect you Dave? I'm 67 January 2037 so just made the cut off, people who were born after 5th April 1970 will have to work till 68 to claim state pension (if still exists) I feel sorry for the younger generation now mate, imagine what it's going to be like for them in years to come.


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Marinerz93
August 23, 2017, 2:00pm

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Quoted from cmackenzie4
That is exactly my point Dave, I'll be getting a forces pension too but only a small one due to the minimal time served compared to you, it just seems a bit odd that the Government are now forcing companies to provide a private pension for their employees, there must be a reason for that other than what they say in having more money in your older years, maybe I'm a cynic but I don't think that is the main reason do you mate? it's got to become means tested surely! I'm sure I read somewhere that within the next 25-30 years there will be the highest percentage of the population at 67-68 than there ever as been  (this is our age group Dave 47 upwards)

I have a decent pension on the railway which I can have a lump sum option ( various options) at 60 and I've decided that I will be taking the full lump sum with a reduced pension, is this what you are doing?

How did the increased state pension age affect you Dave? I'm 67 January 2037 so just made the cut off, people who were born after 5th April 1970 will have to work till 68 to claim state pension (if still exists) I feel sorry for the younger generation now mate, imagine what it's going to be like for them in years to come.


Born March 1970 so just made it but the wife was born 72 so comes under the new ruling. I took the gratuity from the Forces pension, which gets deducted from my full pension until I'm 55 then it goes back to where it should be. If they means test the pension when we come to retire and I don't get it, what's the point of working till you drop, I'll either work to keep busy or retire as soon as I can. What they are doing doesn't feel right, you pay in all those years and then they change the goal posts. I know they have to fund it but this is where they should review the taxation on wages. Insurance tax, Tax and then Pensions tax,  part of which could be drawn from companies or maybe just get the corporation tax right with the likes of Amazon and the others that cook the books to pay less tax elsewhere.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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Manchester Mariner
August 23, 2017, 2:03pm

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Quoted from cmackenzie4

I feel sorry for the younger generation now mate, imagine what it's going to be like for them in years to come.


As you alluded to, there might not be a state pension and if there is, the way the threshold is increasing you probably won't be able to claim it until your 70's/80's. I predict a future of increasing unemployment in the over 60's/70's and increased uptake in JSA in that age group. I'm 39 and I've got a workplace pension and even though I've increased the contributions it still seems a bit minuscule but at least it's something. I'm definitely in a minority of people my age and younger taking up the workplace pension, within my department of 12 only 3 of us are enrolled. Throw in increased automation, A.I and all that and I'm thinking we need something genuinely radical to avoid dark times in 20/30 years.


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barralad
August 23, 2017, 5:45pm
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Guys I've read the last half dozen or so posts and would like to offer some explanation of what you are dealing with.
This is completely apolitical but it is in any Governments interests to reduce the pension burden on the state. The pension you describe that your friend is on sounds very much like the pension equivalent of Income Support. The rationale behind Income Support and this benefit called Pension Credit is that the law identifies a minimum income that people need to live on. The sort of people who may qualify for it are those without full N.I.records due to long periods of illness or unemployment. meaning they do not get a full state Retirement Pension. Means tested means that all other types of income are taken into account so,usually a small private pension is enough to ensure someone doesn't qualify.
Anyone who does qualify is deemed to have a pension income of below the minimum required to live on and therefore attracts entitlement to fringe benefits. HOWEVER in reality currently at least most fringe benefits like free NHS dentistry eye care etc are not income bound but are aged related. In years to come the Government are hoping that the state provision plus employment related pensions will give people an income way above the minimum.
The big battle that went on throughout my 30 odd years working in Social Security is what to do about people who can apply and receive their pension from work way before the state retirement age. These include your ex service personnel such as yourselves firemen policemen etc. etc. Personally I have no issue with people who retire from such professions early and get their pension but the receipt of it means that entitlement to a range of state benefits is greatly reduced or in some cases like Dave totally obliterated. The whole issue of government employee pensions and the astronomical cost over the years is why successive governments have tried to mess about with retirement ages and why firemen etc. are being told work past fifty.


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Maringer
August 23, 2017, 10:15pm
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Quoted from grimsby pete


I think there has been several car bombs going off in Iraq over the last few years so they are not immune from the problem.


Syria is in the middle of a civil war and so is Iraq in all but name. Their bombings are rather different to the attacks in this country and elsewhere in the west!

Anyway, how did we manage to get so far off topic!?!  
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GYinScuntland
August 24, 2017, 2:54am

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I started paying into the steelworks pension scheme as a young sprog and after 40 years was lucky enough to take early retirement at 56.
I took what they called rule 11 which as far as I recall means my annual pension is topped up by a few thousand but when I get to state pension age I'll get very little or none as it's sort of borrowed off it.
It roughly balances out, gives you more cash when you're younger but you don't get the extra state pension when older.
I think it works out that the sooner I die, the more I gain, or something like that.
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Grim74
August 24, 2017, 8:37pm
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Quoted from Maringer


If the attacks were being carried out by refugees from Syria and Iraq, you might have a point. They aren't, so you don't.


My point being Western Europe has been open to mass immigration from Muslim countries. Are you going to deny there is no link between the terrorist atrocities and mass immigration over the recent decades, you have to agree with any number of Muslim let into a country there will be an element of extremists!

More muslims more extremists more terror attacks it's just a fact, which is why Countries  like Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic have rightly said no!


Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Promise a man someone else's fish and he votes Labour.
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KingstonMariner
August 24, 2017, 9:39pm
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Quoted from Maringer


If the attacks were being carried out by refugees from Syria and Iraq, you might have a point. They aren't, so you don't.


The terrorist in Finland last week was a recent (2015) refugee (failed asylum seeker actually).


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Grim74
August 24, 2017, 10:08pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


The terrorist in Finland last week was a recent (2015) refugee (failed asylum seeker actually).


Also two of the men who carried out the Paris attacks in 2015 was believed to be Syrian, there was a Syrian passport found near one of the dead terrorists body, and there fingerprints matched those of a men who arrived on the Greek island of Leroy claiming to be  syrian refugees.

Syrian refugee killed a pregnant woman and wounded two people in German city Reutlingen.

Syrian refugee wounded 15 people when he blew himself up outside music festival in Ansbach Germany.

Also the terrorist mastermind of the Bataclan theatre used the migrant flow to escape detection when returning from jihadi training in Syria.


Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Promise a man someone else's fish and he votes Labour.
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ponnyfan
October 7, 2017, 10:50am
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Genuine question. Current rules state if you don't have sufficient NI contributions you won't get state pension. If this is the case, what will all the scroungers who haven't worked and contributed into the system,live on. Probably by receiving a previously mentioned "citizens allowance" for sitting on their arses all their lives. Not a great incentive for pension savers is it?


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cmackenzie4
October 7, 2017, 11:41am

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Quoted from ponnyfan
Genuine question. Current rules state if you don't have sufficient NI contributions you won't get state pension. If this is the case, what will all the scroungers who haven't worked and contributed into the system,live on. Probably by receiving a previously mentioned "citizens allowance" for sitting on their arses all their lives. Not a great incentive for pension savers is it?


Apparently they get there’s paid by signing on or receiving benefits, my wife was self employed for 15 years and earnt very little (not enough to pay national insurance contributions) yet she will not receive a full state pension now due to this (missed years) yet she’s never claimed benefits or been out of work, she had to work part time due to family issues and chose working instead of signing benefit (not that she’d have been entitled to it anyway due to my income) but I think you get my point.

I rang the DWP for my wife when they said she was 15 years short in her contributions and told them about her circumstances that she didn’t earn enough they said “why don’t you pay her stamp?” I couldn’t believe it, I pay over £450 every 4 weeks in contributions as it, sometimes more, put it this way I have nearly £20,000 a year deducted from my pay in tax, N/I and my works pension, my works pension equals £3,000 of this amount so £17,000 in tax and N/I, don’t get me wrong I’ll pay my fair share but the system is very unfair indeed, I’m a middle earner earning between £50, 000 and £60,000 but I don’t feel well off at all.


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ponnyfan
October 7, 2017, 12:06pm
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Exactly Chris, my position is similar. Contributions taken from benefits what a joke. No work ethic, no motivation, should equal no benefit unless health related. Absolute joke.


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cmackenzie4
October 7, 2017, 12:20pm

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My fear is the state pension becoming means tested, it surely has to in years to come, so the likes of us who pay into a private pension through work etc will be penalised, like I’ve said before I know people who are in receipt of their state pension and also receive pension credits, I also know people who are in receipt of their state pension and also receive a private pension but are not much better off than those who contributed nothing to a private pension, unless your well off and can make large contributions to a private pension then what’s the point, I’m coming up to 48 and in the next 20 years I can see things changing big time.


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grimsby pete
October 7, 2017, 12:21pm

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Quoted from ponnyfan
Exactly Chris, my position is similar. Contributions taken from benefits what a joke. No work ethic, no motivation, should equal no benefit unless health related. Absolute joke.


I do not think a healthy person should be given benefits without doing some kind of work for them,

When I was in Grimsby there was a community programme for the unemployed to get them back to work,

That should be in use today and should never have been stopped,

There are plenty of good causes and charity work that could be done by the unemployed,

Picking the dog sh it up could be one  

The ones that have a illness or disability should be treated differently but no excuse for  the healthy people not doing something for their benefits.


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KingstonMariner
October 7, 2017, 2:44pm
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That's in effect what they did in the Soviet Union Pete. There was no such thing as unemployment. So no dole. Everyone received a wage, but you had to work. Even if half the jobs were made up and wouldn't exist in a market economy.


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Marinerz93
October 8, 2017, 10:03am

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Those that sign on get their stamp paid as long as they are signing on.

The dole are now running apprenticeships where they can, some of those companies are paying a fair wage while they are training the apprentices and then at least living wage when they finish their training which is fantastic. The companies who do this are giving people a chance they would never ordinarily have got and a bonus is the apprentices get qualifications and experience, and potentially a full time job at the end.

Obviously there will always be those who have it better on benefits with little care for work but for many it is a great chance, and could be better if more and more companies did this.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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barralad
October 8, 2017, 10:43am
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Quoted from cmackenzie4
My fear is the state pension becoming means tested, it surely has to in years to come, so the likes of us who pay into a private pension through work etc will be penalised, like I’ve said before I know people who are in receipt of their state pension and also receive pension credits, I also know people who are in receipt of their state pension and also receive a private pension but are not much better off than those who contributed nothing to a private pension, unless your well off and can make large contributions to a private pension then what’s the point, I’m coming up to 48 and in the next 20 years I can see things changing big time.

Chris you can never say for sure that it won't happen but to make the state pension means tested would require a huge change in legislation which no government could hope to get through the Commons and the Lords.


The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.

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grimsby pete
October 8, 2017, 2:56pm

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Years ago any unwanted person in this country was relocated to Australia,

Maybe we should bring that back but not to Australia to Germany instead,

They love all immigrants whether they want to work or not.












(joke )


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