Looks like it's happened again.

Sketchy details but reports of hit and runs, stabbings and shots in the London Bridge area.
I fear it's only going to escalate and eventually seem like the norm.

But Corbyn says its justified. It has been well over-time for action from our politicians, no more hashtags, no more pandering to PC talking points, strict immigration laws, search the Jihad Mosques that have had a hand in legitimating non-legitimate terrorist attacks. This is common sense.  

-- I wasn't linking Corybn to the attacks, however, would you trust someone in defence whom attempted to define the causation of these attacks without any afterthought?  

While there is no deterrent, this'll keep happening.

I was 500m from the bridge at my mates flat, extremely scary. Finally made it home which is about a mile away but I'm not gonna lie I was bricking it walking back.

Quoted from Mariner Ronnie

While there is no deterrent, this'll keep happening.

What sort of deterrent do you think would make a difference seeing that the people who commit these atrocities are usually suicide bombers or willing to die for their twisted cause?

Quoted from Skrill

But Corbyn says its justified. It has been well over-time for action from our politicians, no more hashtags, no more pandering to PC talking points, strict immigration laws, search the Jihad Mosques that have had a hand in legitimating non-legitimate terrorist attacks. This is common sense.  

  To try to link Corbyn to these attacks is disgraceful, the truth is if we want to get involved in illegal wars and bombing campaigns there are always going to be consequences.
We are at war with these countries and unfortunately that means we have to expect to be attacked as well as  attacking others, we need to look at the policies of Blair and Cameron and May calling for wars allover the place backed by a Arms industry and Tory press with it's own agenda.

Quoted from Mariner Ronnie

While there is no deterrent, this'll keep happening.

Deterrent? Should we threaten to bomb their countries if it happens again?  Like that really worked out well.
   We  have a deterrent, a nuclear one which we are going to spend £100 billion plus to update,  at the same time there is not enough money so the Tories have cut, border funding, 25000 from the armed forces and 20000 police despite them warning that this would !make attacks like this much more likely if we did.  Along with the Americans we have created areas of massive power vacuums and complete chaos a breeding ground for Jihadis and we are quite happy to sell as many arms ad we can to the Saudis who are the main sponsors of these groups, we need a whole rethink on our policy in the middle east and also on allowing faith schools of any kind in this country

Quoted from mariner91

I was 500m from the bridge at my mates flat, extremely scary. Finally made it home which is about a mile away but I'm not gonna lie I was bricking it walking back.

We have guests who were giving a concert in Bloomsbury and were planning to drive along the embankment and over London Bridge at exactly this time, but for one of them feeling unwell and tired(pregnant) we would have been there nearly to the minute, we heard about the attack as we were driving , it really does bring it home how easily it can be you or friends and family.  It is hard to see how these attacks can be stopped without intelligence, nearly everyone can get access to vehicles and knives and the fact that the terrorists are quite happy to die and have no value for life is very disturbing

Quoted from Skrill

But Corbyn says its justified. It has been well over-time for action from our politicians, no more hashtags, no more pandering to PC talking points, strict immigration laws, search the Jihad Mosques that have had a hand in legitimating non-legitimate terrorist attacks. This is common sense.  

No Corbyn hasn't said it's justified.

All of the attacks have been committed by people born in this country - so nothing to do with immigration either.

What is an emergency COBRA meeting and what is it suppose to achieve? There has now been three in three months!

Quoted from cmackenzie4

What is an emergency COBRA meeting and what is it suppose to achieve? There has now been three in three months!

Cabinet office briefing room A.
Tea, biscuits and a nice chat basically.

Don't Cobra meet weekly? It's effectively the cabinet and invited guests like high ranking military or emergency services depending on what's happened isn't it?. Sadiq Khan attending today.  Emergency meeting is called in exceptional circumstances.

Give the politics a rest for the day like the parties have. Absolutely disgusting to try and get political points from a terrorist attack.

Ludicrous to link Corbyn to this. Total misrepresentation of what he said.

intercourse knows what deterrent we'd use? Bomb their country. Well that's an awful lot of innocent people you're gonna kill in London, Birmingham, Glasgow etc.

Quoted from Les Brechin

What sort of deterrent do you think would make a difference seeing that the people who commit these atrocities are usually suicide bombers or willing to die for their twisted cause?

What skrill said, apart from the corbyn link.

If anyone has an answer on how to combat radical extremism in the UK then I  would be intrigued. What are we going to do? This has got nothing to do with immagration as most of the extremists doing this are homegrown and from Britain. People can say 'more censorship on the internet' but there are many other forms of brainwashing people than just the internet, just look at the Nazis.

Quoted from 1739

If anyone has an answer on how to combat radical extremism in the UK then I  would be intrigued. What are we going to do? This has got nothing to do with immagration as most of the extremists doing this are homegrown and from Britain. People can say 'more censorship on the internet' but there are many other forms of brainwashing people than just the internet, just look at the Nazis.

Having spoken to Muslim friends in London one in particular  didnt like the values of the West and felt it to liberal eg  mentioned liberal women who sleep around(though would never resort to terrorism).Has a point though sadly some(very small minority) take it to the next level and attack the west based on warped fanatical religious views

Different ideology's based on different cultures and I cant see it changing unless the world in these peoples eyes become more Islamic.

Quoted from Rick12

Having spoken to Muslim friends in London one in particular  didnt like the values of the West and felt it to liberal eg  mentioned liberal women who sleep around(though would never resort to terrorism).Has a point though sadly some(very small minority) take it to the next level and attack the west based on warped fanatical religious views

Different ideology's based on different cultures and I cant see it changing unless the world in these peoples eyes become more Islamic.

So why live here then if they don't like it?

Quoted from Mariner Ronnie

So why live here then if they don't like it?

You got a point.Obviously there is riches and opportunity here and people want a bit of that(law of nature).

I have pure respect/admiration  and love for the genuine ones who I have met who live their faith with good actions and not just words though

I'm very liberal and I believe in the right of freedom of religion. But I have to agree with Ronnie, if you don't like the way of life in one particular country, especially if it's not your country of origin or you are a second generation immigrant, then why live here? If you don't want people drinking in bars and women being allowed to do what they want, then urine off and leave us to it. Likewise, I wouldn't want to live in a country where my girlfriend would not be allowed to drive a car, so I don't move to Saudi Arabia.

Quoted from mariner91

I'm very liberal and I believe in the right of freedom of religion. But I have to agree with Ronnie, if you don't like the way of life in one particular country, especially if it's not your country of origin or you are a second generation immigrant, then why live here? If you don't want people drinking in bars and women being allowed to do what they want, then urine off and leave us to it. Likewise, I wouldn't want to live in a country where my girlfriend would not be allowed to drive a car, so I don't move to Saudi Arabia.

Exactly!

Quoted from Rick12

Having spoken to Muslim friends in London one in particular  didnt like the values of the West and felt it to liberal eg  mentioned liberal women who sleep around(though would never resort to terrorism).Has a point though sadly some(very small minority) take it to the next level and attack the west based on warped fanatical religious views

Different ideology's based on different cultures and I cant see it changing unless the world in these peoples eyes become more Islamic.

And there lies the problem, we do as they say or they try to Kill us.

Quoted from Rick12

Having spoken to Muslim friends in London one in particular  didnt like the values of the West and felt it to liberal eg  mentioned liberal women who sleep around(though would never resort to terrorism).Has a point though sadly some(very small minority) take it to the next level and attack the west based on warped fanatical religious views

Different ideology's based on different cultures and I cant see it changing unless the world in these peoples eyes become more Islamic.

He doesn't have a point Rick. If a woman wants to have casual sex and enjoy it then that has intercourse all to do with you or your friend.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

He doesn't have a point Rick. If a woman wants to have casual sex and enjoy it then that has intercourse all to do with you or your friend.

Exactly this!

If people cannot accept the values of the west, they need to leave this country and go and live in another continent.

We need to be more ruthless, radical  and cleverer than the terrorists.   If we cannot keep check on all the returning jihadists, then we need to reduce the numbers to manageable numbers for the security service to monitor.  There must be ways to restrict their free movement.        

I might have got a few facts wrong in my last post but this I saw and heard Corbyn say myself,

He does not believe in the police having a shoot to kill policy , its very dangerous he says,

Of course its fooking dangerous they kill the terrorists,

If the police did not act as fast as they did there would have been a lot more  killings,

We should  talk to them and try and prevent these things happening he said,

AND

Some of you want him to be Prime Minister.

I would just like to add,

Well done  to the Police and other services in their prompt action which saved  many more lives.

There are plenty of Christians who believe we shouldn't be as liberal/promiscuous as we are in the west. And don't think we should have abortions, birth control and lots of other things. And I don't just mean the millions of Orthodox Christians in Russia (who believe we have already got to hell in that handcart). Plenty in Britain and the rest of the West. Difference is most of them don't kill people over it.

Oh apart from the anti-abortion nutters in America.

Anyway the point is, people can have the same opinion despite ethnic or religious background. So do away with muslims and you'd have to do away with Christians too.

I'm not sure what statement by Corbyn you're referring to Pete, but are you ruling out talking to anyone about it any time? Will it only stop after a war of attrition lasting God knows how long?

Plenty of politicians don't believe in shoot-to-kill policies either. Obviously they don't appreciate how dangerous a shoot-to-wound policy is either when faced with an armed assailant.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I might have got a few facts wrong in my last post but this I saw and heard Corbyn say myself,

He does not believe in the police having a shoot to kill policy , its very dangerous he says,

Wrong again, I'm afraid, Pete:

https://www.theguardian.com/po.....tional-circumstances

You've probably been misled because this meme has been spinning around after Kuenssberg did a job on Corbyn by misrepresenting what he said in an interview with her, something for which she was pulled up on by the BBC Trust:

http://www.independent.co.uk/n.....corbyn-a7533096.html

To be fair, I'd say Corbyn deserves some criticism for not being more clear about his views in the first place but Kuenssberg got into trouble with the BBC Trust because her report insinuated that he wouldn't want armed police to shoot to kill in a hostage situation when he'd not been asked about anything like that.

I think the general principle that the police shouldn't shoot to kill wherever possible is absolutely fine. The terrorists who killed Lee Rigby were both shot non-fatally which is within the remit of our laws. If you go the other way then you end up with situations like De Menezes - the unarmed Brazilian who was chased into a tube station and killed by a group of armed police who panicked in the aftermath of the 7/7 attacks. Last night, the attackers had fake suicide vests on - you'd have to shoot to kill in those situations.

Quoted from 1739

If anyone has an answer on how to combat radical extremism in the UK then I  would be intrigued. What are we going to do? This has got nothing to do with immagration as most of the extremists doing this are homegrown and from Britain. People can say 'more censorship on the internet' but there are many other forms of brainwashing people than just the internet, just look at the Nazis.

Here's a start reform the Koran it's a book of evil. We are constantly told Islam is a peaceful religion well if that is the case these peace loving muslims won't have a problem if we take out all evil verses the ones they choose to ignore anyway.

We then have a 6 month amnesty to rid the country of this filth only the new reformed Koran will be allowed, then make it a criminal offence for anyone to be in possession and punishable by life imprisoment.

Round up the 300 jihad's that we know are walking the streets then send them to internment, close down the Saudi funded mosques, and install live feed cctv cameras with audio in all remaining mosques, shut Islamic schools.

I could go on but this is what I want to see as a minimum a line has been well and truly crossed so no more PC crap, no more Islamaphobia bullshit, no more "we are united by our values" bullshit that Corbyrn is talking about right now,

Quoted from Grim74

Here's a start reform the Koran it's a book of evil. We are constantly told Islam is a peaceful religion well if that is the case these peace loving muslims won't have a problem if we take out all evil verses the ones they choose to ignore anyway.

We then have a 6 month amnesty to rid the country of this filth only the new reformed Koran will be allowed, then make it a criminal offence for anyone to be in possession and punishable by life imprisoment.

Round up the 300 jihad's that we know are walking the streets then send them to internment, close down the Saudi funded mosques, and install live feed cctv cameras with audio in all remaining mosques, shut Islamic schools.

I could go on but this is what I want to see as a minimum a line has been well and truly crossed so no more PC crap, no more Islamaphobia bullshit, no more "we are united by our values" bullshit that Corbyrn is talking about right now,

Great idea. Instead of 1% of muslims being terrorists, you'd probably increase the number by a factor of 10.

I'm all for discouraging religions, including Christianity. It's just as bad as Islam. All faith schools should be abolished, or heavily taxed. There seem to be far too many churches to meet the actual demand these days, attendance has been dwindling since 1859 when the truth was revealed! But if kids are not spoon-fed religion at school it should die an even quicker death.

Quoted from GrimRob

Great idea. Instead of 1% of muslims being terrorists, you'd probably increase the number by a factor of 10.

I'm all for discouraging religions, including Christianity. It's just as bad as Islam. All faith schools should be abolished, or heavily taxed. There seem to be far too many churches to meet the actual demand these days, attendance has been dwindling since 1859 when the truth was revealed! But if kids are not spoon-fed religion at school it should die an even quicker death.

Surprised and saddened to read your stance Rob on religion and being the forum manager as well  

All religion means is connecting to source eg energy from a scientific view    period.Just depends whether you want to attach yourself to good or bad though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmeHHdGgQkg

Quoted from Grim74

Here's a start reform the Koran it's a book of evil. We are constantly told Islam is a peaceful religion well if that is the case these peace loving muslims won't have a problem if we take out all evil verses the ones they choose to ignore anyway.

We then have a 6 month amnesty to rid the country of this filth only the new reformed Koran will be allowed, then make it a criminal offence for anyone to be in possession and punishable by life imprisoment.

Round up the 300 jihad's that we know are walking the streets then send them to internment, close down the Saudi funded mosques, and install live feed cctv cameras with audio in all remaining mosques, shut Islamic schools.



I could go on but this is what I want to see as a minimum a line has been well and truly crossed so no more PC crap, no more Islamaphobia bullshit, no more "we are united by our values" bullshit that Corbyrn is talking about right now,

I sort of appreciatecwhat you say grim you are starting from the wrong basis. Islam is a peaceful religion. Having travelled through n Africa and the Middle East, thevtruth is that true Muslims will offer you more than their family.they will offer you more than they will offer their kids.it is a massively caring religion ,much the same as Christianity which is usurped by nutters. The problem we have in the uk is we have too many Sunnis and too many poor Pakistanis who are perverted by Saudi propaganda
I don't know what the answer is. Maybe ,manchester tonight where we all stick the middle finger up to radical Islam is the answer, however even for a liberal like me us is tempered by the  fact that we have 23,000 others to take their place

Quoted from grimsby pete

I would just like to add,

Well done  to the Police and other services in their prompt action which saved  many more lives.

If you want to act the fool and believe the daily mail propaganda good luck to you, you believe in shoot to kill, Jean Paul de Menenes was completely innocent and shot by a he police because he looked liked someone else.. If this was your son or daughter would you be so happy to say the same?  I love the fact this country has rules and laws about this

Quoted from Rick12

Surprised and saddened to read your stance Rob on religion and being the forum manager as well  

All religion means is connecting to source eg energy from a scientific view    period.Just depends whether you want to attach yourself to good or bad though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmeHHdGgQkg

Humans are tribal. We all have a deep need to belong to some sort of grouping. Many of us on here (me included) choose football to fill that slot in our psyches. Other people use a different sport or things like a particular music genre to define to themselves who they are. The difference is most of these things like football don't take themselves as seriously as organised relgions which were established when people's understanding of the world around them was very insubstantial. Pretty much all religions (the Abrahamic ones anyway) denounce all non-believers.

I respect people's choice to follow a relgion but I don't see why it should be treated any differently to other recreational pursuits.

Both those involved in London sand Manchester seem to have been reported to the police, somehow there is a complete failure from reporting and surveillance
There is something very wrong, either incompetence ot willfully ignorance

Quoted from Maringer

Wrong again, I'm afraid, Pete:

https://www.theguardian.com/po.....tional-circumstances

You've probably been misled because this meme has been spinning around after Kuenssberg did a job on Corbyn by misrepresenting what he said in an interview with her, something for which she was pulled up on by the BBC Trust:

http://www.independent.co.uk/n.....corbyn-a7533096.html

To be fair, I'd say Corbyn deserves some criticism for not being more clear about his views in the first place but Kuenssberg got into trouble with the BBC Trust because her report insinuated that he wouldn't want armed police to shoot to kill in a hostage situation when he'd not been asked about anything like that.

I think the general principle that the police shouldn't shoot to kill wherever possible is absolutely fine. The terrorists who killed Lee Rigby were both shot non-fatally which is within the remit of our laws. If you go the other way then you end up with situations like De Menezes - the unarmed Brazilian who was chased into a tube station and killed by a group of armed police who panicked in the aftermath of the 7/7 attacks. Last night, the attackers had fake suicide vests on - you'd have to shoot to kill in those situations.

I was going on by what I saw him say on the BBC website,

If you can not trust them who can you trust ?

How do we know if anything is just made up , twisted or just a lie ?

I still would not trust him as Prime Minister.

Quoted from Rick12

Surprised and saddened to read your stance Rob on religion and being the forum manager as well  

All religion means is connecting to source eg energy from a scientific view    period.Just depends whether you want to attach yourself to good or bad though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmeHHdGgQkg

Get a grip man . I believe in father Christmas it will never make him more real. I believe in St George and the dragon he killed

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I'm not sure what statement by Corbyn you're referring to Pete, but are you ruling out talking to anyone about it any time? Will it only stop after a war of attrition lasting God knows how long?
.

Yes I would want someone to talk to them but they do not want to talk to us do they ?

If it could be arranged I would like Corbyn to go over to Syria and try and talk to them if he would go.

Quoted from codcheeky

Both those involved in London sand Manchester seem to have been reported to the police, somehow there is a complete failure from reporting and surveillance
There is something very wrong, either incompetence ot willfully ignorance

Or 20,000 police axed from service!  

Regarding the shoot to kill policy how many others would have been killed or injured if the police only shot to wound last night ?

When you are dealing with these type of people they will not stop trying to kill people unless they are unable to do so,

So shoot to kill is the only thing the police can do and I for one are grateful they do.

Quoted from GrimRob

Great idea. Instead of 1% of muslims being terrorists, you'd probably increase the number by a factor of 10.

I'm all for discouraging religions, including Christianity. It's just as bad as Islam. All faith schools should be abolished, or heavily taxed. There seem to be far too many churches to meet the actual demand these days, attendance has been dwindling since 1859 when the truth was revealed! But if kids are not spoon-fed religion at school it should die an even quicker death.

Like I said Rob if the majority are peace loving why would they have a problem reforming the Koran? On the other hand if they did decide to kick off better to get it over and done now when the Muslim population is about 5-10%. We have had enough appeasement now and it's time to stop worrying about the Muslim population, let's concentrate on the victims and have some robust action and I don't mean a pop concert😕

I agree with you on faith schools but there's only one religion that is killing us so banning them all would be harsh.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Yes I would want someone to talk to them but they do not want to talk to us do they ?

If it could be arranged I would like Corbyn to go over to Syria and try and talk to them if he would go.

Will more of the same work , the Tories have cut 20000 police who said this was likely to happen as a result, Corbyn wants more police bizzately May wants more cuts, engage your brain instead of your prejudice

Quoted from codcheeky

Get a grip man . I believe in father Christmas it will never make him more real. I believe in St George and the dragon he killed

Think you need to get a grip my friend.Energy is real as was Jesus.A good man who died for preaching his message of love and good.

Quoted from codcheeky

Will more of the same work , the Tories have cut 20000 police who said this was likely to happen as a result, Corbyn wants more police bizzately May wants more cuts, engage your brain instead of your prejudice

In an election you have a choice of who to vote for,

You choose Corbyn I choose May,

If I am prejudiced so are you , grow up and just except your choice is not every bodies.

This old saying simplifies it a bit too much, but it holds some truth: 'Without religion, bad people do bad things. With religion, good people do bad things.' I suppose you can add to that any movement or cause which sets hard and fast principles and demonises those who don't follow it: Nazism and Stalinism.

Now sometimes, extreme seeming actions are justified by the protection they offer to other innocent people. It's the moral thing to do. I'm sure some of what fundamentalists promote is seen by them as the moral thing to do. From our point of view, most of us would probably say 'shoot the nutter with the bomb belt'. Kill him as soon as possible to render him a non-threat to the innocent public. Seems sensible. But there's a thought experiment you could come up with where you extend that principle further and further until the protective action becomes the thing we need protection from. It all comes down to fine judgement.

Quoted from Grim74

Like I said Rob if the majority are peace loving why would they have a problem reforming the Koran? On the other hand if they did decide to kick off better to get it over and done now when the Muslim population is about 5-10%. We have had enough appeasement now and it's time to stop worrying about the Muslim population, let's concentrate on the victims and have some robust action and I don't mean a pop concert😕

I agree with you on faith schools but there's only one religion that is killing us so banning them all would be harsh.

Reform the Koran? Uh?! Have you tried reading the Koran.these winkers have abused the Koran. The Koran is even more caring than the bible. You look after your stranger and your neighbour
The bizarre thing is that your Saudi extremist hates your Iranian Shia  more than even us of your Jew. Do some research and have a look at the abuse suffered by tthe alawites, Kurds, Druze etc . Try travelling to anywhere Arabic.the people will take care of you even better than you'd expect from your own family.

Quoted from Rick12

Think you need to get a grip my friend.Energy is real as was Jesus.A good man who died for preaching his message of love and good.

When did anyone claim that energy wasn't real?

Quoted from forza ivano

I sort of appreciatecwhat you say grim you are starting from the wrong basis. Islam is a peaceful religion. Having travelled through n Africa and the Middle East, thevtruth is that true Muslims will offer you more than their family.they will offer you more than they will offer their kids.it is a massively caring religion ,much the same as Christianity which is usurped by nutters. The problem we have in the uk is we have too many Sunnis and too many poor Pakistanis who are perverted by Saudi propaganda
I don't know what the answer is. Maybe ,manchester tonight where we all stick the middle finger up to radical Islam is the answer, however even for a liberal like me us is tempered by the  fact that we have 23,000 others to take their place

Have to disagree Forza I accept there are many law abiding peaceful Muslims but they are either living under strict barbaric Islamic law or are not true  Muslims as we see in this Country, they tend to be passive or moderate with no real interaction with Islam. My mum for example would say she was a catholic but only went to church once a year for midnight mass. It's the devout Muslim we should worry about the ones who don't cherry pick and believe the Koran to be the word of God the one true God. Islam is a military religion which doctrines th SUBMISSION and OBEDIENCE to Allah (the sharia) by following the example of the mass murdering Mohammed as the Self proclaimed “last prophet” of God.

To compare with Christianity is way off the mark the difference is that the Bible does NOT command to kill and the islamic doctrine clearly does. Islam inspires (or you could say brainwashes) muslims to do bad things so the more interaction any muslim has with islam, the more that muslim will be influenced by islam.

Disagree with the concert to be honest nothing against the organisers they mean well but it serves no purpose, singing songs clapping and dancing is a bit of an insult to the victims in my opinion and it's hardly going to put off the next set of terrorists WHEN THEY STRIKE  AGAIN!

Quoted from mariner91

When did anyone claim that energy wasn't real?

Read the posts back and you will see why I posted that

I believe in God and think religion has done more good than bad throughout history though .At the end of the day were here a short time and like Grimsby Pete said when were gone were gone.Just try to live a good way and help others flourish along the way. Lifes to short for hate and negativity end of

Shall we start a new thread for the next attack or just bump this one.  

Quoted from Grim74

Have to disagree Forza I accept there are many law abiding peaceful Muslims but they are either living under strict barbaric Islamic law or are not true  Muslims as we see in this Country, they tend to be passive or moderate with no real interaction with Islam. My mum for example would say she was a catholic but only went to church once a year for midnight mass. It's the devout Muslim we should worry about the ones who don't cherry pick and believe the Koran to be the word of God the one true God. Islam is a military religion which doctrines th SUBMISSION and OBEDIENCE to Allah (the sharia) by following the example of the mass murdering Mohammed as the Self proclaimed “last prophet” of God.

To compare with Christianity is way off the mark the difference is that the Bible does NOT command to kill and the islamic doctrine clearly does. Islam inspires (or you could say brainwashes) muslims to do bad things so the more interaction any muslim has with islam, the more that muslim will be influenced by islam.

Disagree with the concert to be honest nothing against the organisers they mean well but it serves no purpose, singing songs clapping and dancing is a bit of an insult to the victims in my opinion and it's hardly going to put off the next set of terrorists WHEN THEY STRIKE  AGAIN!

Devout Muslims would probably still be breaking fast at the time of these attacks, which have strangely enough, happened during Ramadan. Doesn't seem like a good thing to do if you're a devout follower does it?

Quoted from Grantley

Devout Muslims would probably still be breaking fast at the time of these attacks, which have strangely enough, happened during Ramadan. Doesn't seem like a good thing to do if you're a devout follower does it?

God willing!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....-ramadan-manchester/

Quoted from Rick12

Read the posts back and you will see why I posted that

I believe in God and think religion has done more good than bad throughout history though .At the end of the day were here a short time and like Grimsby Pete said when were gone were gone.Just try to live a good way and help others flourish along the way. Lifes to short for hate and negativity end of

I've read all the posts and you're the only that goes on about energy all the time?

I agree that people should try to live in a good way and if you can help others then great. But in my opinion I don't need a book written 2000 years ago to tell me how to do that because it's not relevant to the country or times that I live in.

My own personal take on religion is that Karl Marx was right when he described it as the opium of the masses. It was used for centuries to oppress and control the population. But once our understanding of the world and the universe started to broaden more and more people realised that things were explainable without an almighty deity. These days I think, like GrimRob said, that people like to feel as though they belong and some people turn to the church for that. Others, like my mother, get comfort from the thought that there might be an afterlife etc. And if people want to believe that, then great. But it really bugs me when people judge others who don't conform to what a 2000 year old book says. You live your life how you want to live and I won't judge you for it and that's all I ask for in return.

Quoted from mariner91

My own personal take on religion is that Karl Marx was right when he described it as the opium of the masses. It was used for centuries to oppress and control the population. But once our understanding of the world and the universe started to broaden more and more people realised that things were explainable without an almighty deity. These days I think, like GrimRob said, that people like to feel as though they belong and some people turn to the church for that. Others, like my mother, get comfort from the thought that there might be an afterlife etc. And if people want to believe that, then great. But it really bugs me when people judge others who don't conform to what a 2000 year old book says. You live your life how you want to live and I won't judge you for it and that's all I ask for in return.

I accept your viewpoint mariner but my faith is not based on following a book eg the bible.It comes from something deep within  that I have had since young  and  external to any religious propaganda I have heard since.

In fact I think all faiths have some some good to them including Islam although the ones I gravitate to more than others are Christianity and Sikhism.

I agree like you have said atheists can be good people as well.But what I would say and Iam firm in my belief about this is long term good will always overcome the bad .

Period

Quoted from Rick12

I accept your viewpoint mariner but my faith is not based on following a book eg the bible.It comes from something deep within  that I have had since young  and  external to any religious propaganda I have heard since.

In fact I think all faiths have some some good to them including Islam although the ones I gravitate to more than others are Christianity and Sikhism.

I agree like you have said atheists can be good people as well.But what I would say and Iam firm in my belief about this is long term good will always overcome the bad .

Period

Would you die for your faith Rick? After all eternity is a long time compared to your time on Earth. Perhaps more important would you kill for your faith? It is not that difficult to see how muslims are indoctrinated when irrationality is at the core of belief
Life

Quoted from grimsby pete

In an election you have a choice of who to vote for,

You choose Corbyn I choose May,

If I am prejudiced so are you , grow up and just except your choice is not every bodies.

You are right and I would much rather you voted for May than be not bothered, even though it's like voting for the Sherrill of Nottingham

Quoted from codcheeky

You are right and I would much rather you voted for May than be not bothered, even though it's like voting for the Sherrill of Nottingham

I am not 100% behind the Tories but do not fancy having Robin Hood leading our country.

Quoted from Rick12

I accept your viewpoint mariner but my faith is not based on following a book eg the bible.It comes from something deep within  that I have had since young  and  external to any religious propaganda I have heard since.

In fact I think all faiths have some some good to them including Islam although the ones I gravitate to more than others are Christianity and Sikhism.

I agree like you have said atheists can be good people as well.But what I would say and Iam firm in my belief about this is long term good will always overcome the bad .

Period

Then why have you, on several occasions, criticised people who have sex before marriage?

Quoted from Grim74

Have to disagree Forza I accept there are many law abiding peaceful Muslims but they are either living under strict barbaric Islamic law or are not true  Muslims as we see in this Country, they tend to be passive or moderate with no real interaction with Islam. My mum for example would say she was a catholic but only went to church once a year for midnight mass. It's the devout Muslim we should worry about the ones who don't cherry pick and believe the Koran to be the word of God the one true God. Islam is a military religion which doctrines th SUBMISSION and OBEDIENCE to Allah (the sharia) by following the example of the mass murdering Mohammed as the Self proclaimed “last prophet” of God.

To compare with Christianity is way off the mark the difference is that the Bible does NOT command to kill and the islamic doctrine clearly does. Islam inspires (or you could say brainwashes) muslims to do bad things so the more interaction any muslim has with islam, the more that muslim will be influenced by islam.

Disagree with the concert to be honest nothing against the organisers they mean well but it serves no purpose, singing songs clapping and dancing is a bit of an insult to the victims in my opinion and it's hardly going to put off the next set of terrorists WHEN THEY STRIKE  AGAIN!

I see you are still speaking from a position of fear, anger and ignorance, very much ignorance.

You have a very narrow view of Islam which I'm sure the vast majority of Muslims would disagree with your take on their religion. Many would be willing to educate you, not with anger and hate but with love and compassion.

In the name of Christianity many Muslims have been murdered and slaughtered and to many, this still still going on with the likes of the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan and the bombs from the war on terror claiming innocent Muslim lives as "collateral damage". I'm sure you feel we're justified, how do you think they feel?

So it seems attacking their countries, invading them and bombing them only seems to exacerbate the problem. We need to show them our freedom of individual choice, our tolerance. Open up these societies, learn to integrate with them so they can integrate with us. Let them see the ones who commit such atrocious acts, attack their way of life as well as ours. Maybe then it will be a little tougher to radicalise people.

The concert seem like an excellent way to respond to the terrorists. What they chose to attack didn't stop it and only led to an even larger event broadcast around the world.I'm not sure how you could see it as an insult to the victims, I see it as a tribute. They were concert goers or parents of concert goings that was obviously what they loved to do. It showed the terrorists all they achieved was to force us all more together, to carry on as we do. To see the massive courage shown by all those children who attended and their parents, the tears from the young girl who sang on stage with Ariana Grande and the school choir, who must have been scared stiff but defiantly, carried on singing.

That moved me. You'll need to explain how you saw it all as an insult.

If any of my friends, family or even myself were murdered by these filth I wouldn't want candles or mealy mouthed words, just swift and bloody vengeance.

Quoted from ginnywings

http://www.independent.co.uk/n.....-david-a7772931.html

How many more police would we need to stop one or three terrorists getting into a van and running over people
?

Did France have any idea when the same thing and worse happened in their country ?

Now is not the time to play the blame game,

Now is the time for everybody to come together and work out what is the best thing to do.

Quoted from GYinScuntland

If any of my friends, family or even myself were murdered by these filth I wouldn't want candles or mealy mouthed words, just swift and bloody vengeance.

And that's exactly why they don't let the families make that sort of decision.

Quoted from GYinScuntland

If any of my friends, family or even myself were murdered by these filth I wouldn't want candles or mealy mouthed words, just swift and bloody vengeance.

How would you apply that swift and bloody vengeance?

Quoted from grimsby pete

I was going on by what I saw him say on the BBC website,

If you can not trust them who can you trust ?

How do we know if anything is just made up , twisted or just a lie ?

I still would not trust him as Prime Minister.

The BBC certainly wanted to give the impression you got, which is why Kuenssberg was given a telling off by the BBC Trust. Trust the BBC as much as you like, but you have to be aware of their biases - Nick Robinson famously did a report during the Scottish Independence referendum where he lied about Salmond replying to a question. For some reason, the BBC Trust decided Robinson was allowed to utter complete falsehoods in his report:

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/2722/bbc-verdict-nick-robinson-indyref-complaints-no-bias-here

Pretty shocking.

If you don't want to trust Corbyn, that's up to you, but May is the one who is openly lying and distorting facts in recent weeks. Here's a good one which slipped through yesterday. A former Met officer noting that Theresa May (Home Secretary 2010-2016) has openly lied about the police numbers which were, of course, cut by May:

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/.....ondon-attacks-video/

You'll see the video clip from Sky News on that link. Sorry can't work out to show the direct link.

As for the shoot to kill thing - you realise that our police still don't have an official shoot to kill policy? Minimal force should always be used but this will in the case of suicide attackers lead to most of them being killed. Heck, even the US police don't have an official shoot to kill policy, trigger-happy though they may be. We have to operate within the rule of law, so credit to the police for doing their jobs to the best of their ability. Bear in mind that it is much better to capture these terrorists alive because then you can interrogate and try to find out if they have accomplices. You can't get much in the way of intelligence from a corpse.

I think this whole thread highlights how incredibly complex the situation is, far from it simply being about a warped faith. Finding a solution may be nigh on impossible, as I think our foreign policy has created enough hatred to fuel the hate preachers manipulation for a time ahead. In fact, I'm certain there isn't a short term solution, only a two fold long term one. For the first part we obviously need to be coming down harder on the hate preachers and those 2000 odd (I believe the figure is) who are on the radicalized watch list. This would be nothing more than a matter of damaged limitation at this stage. Then we need to look at ourselves in the mirror and confess what we could be doing better. Terrorism is fueled by hatred, and we have been all too willing to add fuel to their cause, through our ridiculous campaigns in the region, which have been filled with hypocricy. I haven't found any figures, but I'm confident in saying many more innocent Muslim children will have been killed by western bombs than western children killed by terrorist bombs since the turn of the century. The damage is already done in this aspect, but in the long term, this has to change otherwise hatred towards the west will only continue.

Quoted from grimsby pete

How many more police would we need to stop one or three terrorists getting into a van and running over people
?

Did France have any idea when the same thing and worse happened in their country ?

Now is not the time to play the blame game,

Now is the time for everybody to come together and work out what is the best thing to do.

Unless you are blaming Corbyn for something that he might do in the future. May has had 7 years as Home Secretary and Prime Minister and has systematically cut the security services.

Quoted from mariner91

Then why have you, on several occasions, criticised people who have sex before marriage?

Ive touched on this before but I think you misinterpreted  my point but I will elaborate.I dont think there is nothing wrong with sex before marriage but just causal sex with many partners.

Quoted from Maringer

If you don't want to trust Corbyn, that's up to you, but May is the one who is openly lying and distorting facts in recent weeks. Here's a good one which slipped through yesterday. A former Met officer noting that Theresa May (Home Secretary 2010-2016) has openly lied about the police numbers which were, of course, cut by May:

Bear in mind that it is much better to capture these terrorists alive because then you can interrogate and try to find out if they have accomplices. You can't get much in the way of intelligence from a corpse.

The thing is Mate if we can not trust what the BBC tell us why should we trust anything anybody tells us including the bits you have quoted  ?

Regarding taking the terrorist alive is a bit risky instead of them dropping on the spot,

How many other innocent people could be killed or injured before the police could over power them,

BUT

If we did get them alive I would like a few electric shocks and other nice things applied to their bodies so they would tell us what we need to know.

It ain't gunner happen though.

The stuff I quote is based on verifiable facts wherever possible. Like I say, the BBC is generally OK, but you've got to understand they have certain biases or, more precisely, the people running their news operations at this point in time do. As I've said in the past, James Harding, former editor of the Times has been the head of BBC News for some years and he's parachuted so many of his sort in that the right-wing bias is clearly visible from the top downwards. Best one of late was when Sarah Sands (ex-Daily Mail, ex-Daily Telegraph, ex-Evening Standard) was appointed as editor of the R4 Today programme - not one jot of experience of radio, but given the job without even applying, so I understand!

It has been very easy for these people to denigrate Corbyn due to their own biases and, of course, there are many right-leaning Labour MPs who have been briefing against him for two years now. Is it a coincidence that the polls have narrowed so enormously since the election began and they became legally bound to offer a more balanced view? I doubt it.

It's not just Labour who have suffered from this, of course. I'm far from a fan of UKIP and their right-wing, often bigoted policies, but there is little doubt that the BBC has gone for the jugular against Nuttall this election campaign. He's hopeless and his party has no reason for existence following the referendum result and since May attempted to adopt many of their policies for the kipper vote, but there has certainly been quite a bit of glee on show from BBC reporters as they have taken him down. Similarly, the SNP has taken unwarranted flack on occasions for perfectly reasonable statements because the BBC is extremely pro-Union in nature.

We have to trust that the police will make the correct decisions and, during any attacks, I think it reasonable that shooting to kill is more likely to occur, especially if there is concern about bombs, but it is a good idea to ensure that there isn't an unofficial order to just kill them. Bad for evidence gathering and also more likely that the police will make errors if they are guns-blazing from the off. We have to trust that their training will keep the errors to a minimum.

Just to point out following your other comments, however, torture doesn't work. Despite what 24, Homeland and other TV shows might tell you, the evidence is that torture doesn't provide reliable intelligence:

https://www.scientificamerican.....-doesn-rsquo-t-work/

Quoted from Rick12

Ive touched on this before but I think you misinterpreted  my point but I will elaborate.I dont think there is nothing wrong with sex before marriage but just causal sex with many partners.

No, you definitely said it was "commendable" to save yourself before marriage. It's hardly a wild misinterpretation to take from that that you think it's wrong to have sex before marriage.

I would torture them anyway Maringer just for the hell of it.

But then you are no better than them, Pete.

You'd be inflicting harm just to satisfy something within yourself - just the same as them. Anyway, after a flurry of posts, better get back to work!  

I consider myself a floating voter that was swaying towards Tory but my vote will go to the party that can promise that they will put money back into services that will protect myself and my family. At the minute we are at war in our own country no matter how small a minority these mindless idiots are and Trident is not going to stop these kind of attacks so surely they need to pull that funding to protect us from being killed on our own streets more and more. If labour can promise this then they get my vote

Surely it's his right to believe it's commendable to save yourself before marriage, as long as he isn't forcing it on other people, which he isn't doing commenting on a football forum.

Quoted from GrimRob

I'm all for discouraging religions, including Christianity. It's just as bad as Islam.

Simply wrong. I'm an agnostic atheist, however, I find this militant Atheism discouraging since it lacks a complete historical understanding of its own culture to which it derived from.    

Read history and what the Reformation and Enlightenment was, this made Western Civilisation, freedom from religion, free speech and laid the foundation for the precious 'Gems' of Western society. In Christianity, or today the Anglican Church, apostasy is not punishable by death, unlike in Islam practised in many Islamic countries. In Western countries of today, homosexuals and non-believers are not pushed or stoned to death, if they decide to leave a religion, they are encouraged and helped, rather than interrogated, discriminated and killed. All this in mind, the most prosecuted religious group in the world right now are the Middle Eastern Christians, to which gets hardly any media representation. I ask to you, name one instance in where Christianity is preaching and actively discriminatory or killing against non-believers/homosexuals?

'The World's Most Persecuted Minority: Christians'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytdMUddGe-U

Cameron's aide Hylton saying she must resign just shows what a mess she had made of policing in her time as Home secretary, she was warned on numerous occasions that the cuts would make attacks like this more likely, she has failed in her first duty which is to keep the citizens safe.
Enough is Enough is just another sound bite, thus woman is a clueless liar

I posted my serious views above near the start of this thread.

A lighter touch:

Recognition har been highlighted for people's bravery in confronting these 3 losers. There has also been examples of British humour, like the picture of the bloke running away with a pint in his hand.  At £6 a pint, this is understandable!  Good that he got his priorities right.  (The media are trying to identify him).

Everything happens for a reason.  30 years of England football fans abroad throwing bottles, beer glasses, tables and chairs at rivals has been good training.  This experience was used to good effect by brave bystanders who used these weapons to throw at the 3 terrorists on Sat night.

A milkcrate, skateboard and part of a bike was also thrown at them.  Instant courage shown in a very dangerous situation with unknown risks.      

Quoted from mariner91

No, you definitely said it was "commendable" to save yourself before marriage. It's hardly a wild misinterpretation to take from that that you think it's wrong to have sex before marriage.

Fair point but just to clarify things for me personally  its best to keep yourself for the one marriage or no marriage

Quoted from codcheeky

Enough is Enough is just another sound bite, thus woman is a clueless liar

Our entire policing system and standard police forces need reviewing and reform. Just look at what happened at Rotherham, police forces not doing their jobs because they were 'afraid' of being called racist. This is the product of leftism and Political correct culture, which all started from the Blair government increasing immigration tenfold. Yes this gave our nation many, many genuine, hard-working people, but it also gave us the worst. The sooner we realise this, the better. There are apparently 3,000 ISIS recruits in Britain, with 80-100 already flown to fight abroad, this is the product of an open-border immigration policy, and a lack of immigration enforcement. Something a Corbyn campaign likes to promote as a policy, open-borders that is.

What has May done exactly? Increased our specialist, highly trained fire-arm officers. Thats not to say our standard police do a fantastic job, they do, however, batons did not prevent the terrorist attack on London Bridge. May has spent £143 million on building these new police units, for which they prevented 255 terrorist related arrests in 2016 alone. Also the British Special Forces under this government have received unprecedented amounts of funding for new equipment and Counter-Terrorism. These units operated against the IRA in the Ireland Troubles, Corbyn aligned himself not with these units.    

Quoted from Skrill

Simply wrong. I'm an agnostic atheist, however, I find this militant Atheism discouraging since it lacks a complete historical understanding of its own culture to which it derived from.    

Read history and what the Reformation and Enlightenment was, this made Western Civilisation, freedom from religion, free speech and laid the foundation for the precious 'Gems' of Western society. In Christianity, or today the Anglican Church, apostasy is not punishable by death, unlike in Islam practised in many Islamic countries. In Western countries of today, homosexuals and non-believers are not pushed or stoned to death, if they decide to leave a religion, they are encouraged and helped, rather than interrogated, discriminated and killed. All this in mind, the most prosecuted religious group in the world right now are the Middle Eastern Christians, to which gets hardly any media representation. I ask to you, name one instance in where Christianity is preaching and actively discriminatory or killing against non-believers/homosexuals?

'The World's Most Persecuted Minority: Christians'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytdMUddGe-U

Plenty of examples here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

There are passages in the old testament which say all infidels must be killed. I know some people will say the OT is not Christianity but fundamentalist Christians regard it as the absolute truth. At this present moment in time there might not be as many prominent Christian terrorists as Islamic ones, but there is enough wriggle room in both faiths to extract passages that demand slaying of non-believers/homosexuals etc. Islam's worse at the moment but I regard them as potentially as bad as one another.

Quoted from Maringer

But then you are no better than them, Pete.

You'd be inflicting harm just to satisfy something within yourself - just the same as them. Anyway, after a flurry of posts, better get back to work!  

No there is a big difference they kill innocent people,

I would just torture the murdering illegitimates,

When I said I , I did not mean me I could not do it, I meant we us or you but not me.

If you believe that all Muslims are peaceful, and respectful they can't be real Muslims because over 60% of the Koran details how to treat the Kafir, non believer.

All the Koranic verses are listed as to how Muslims should treat non believers and if you don't follow each and every verse God will punish you, gems such as

Here are two Sharia references about Kafirs:

w59.2 […] And this clarifies the Koranic verses and hadiths about hatred for the sake of Allah and love for the sake of Allah, Al Walaa wa al Baraa, being unyielding towards the Kafirs, hard against them, and detesting them, while accepting the destiny of Allah Most High insofar as it is the decree of Allah Mighty and Majestic.

Hatred for the sake of Allah and love for the sake of Allah is called Al Walaa wa al Baraa, a fundamental principle of Islamic ethics and Sharia. A Muslim is to hate what Allah hates and love what Allah loves. Allah hates the Kafir, therefore, a Muslim is to act accordingly.

40:35 They [Kafirs] who dispute the signs [Koran verses] of Allah without authority having reached them are greatly hated by Allah and the believers [Muslims]. So Allah seals up every arrogant, disdainful heart.

h8.24 It is not permissible to give zakat [charity] to a Kafir, or to someone whom one is obliged to support such as a wife or family member.

Here are a few of the Koran references: A Kafir can be mocked–

83:34 On that day the faithful will mock the Kafirs, while they sit on bridal couches and watch them. Should not the Kafirs be paid back for what they did?

A Kafir can be beheaded—

47:4 When you encounter the Kafirs on the battlefield, cut off their heads until you have thoroughly defeated them and then take the prisoners and tie them up firmly.

A Kafir can be plotted against—

86:15 They plot and scheme against you [Mohammed], and I plot and scheme against them. Therefore, deal calmly with the Kafirs and leave them alone for a while.

A Kafir can be terrorized—

8:12 Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, “I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the Kafirs’ hearts, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fingers!”

A Muslim is not the friend of a Kafir—

3:28 Believers should not take Kafirs as friends in preference to other believers. Those who do this will have none of Allah’s protection and will only have themselves as guards. Allah warns you to fear Him for all will return to Him.

A Kafir is evil—

23:97 And say: Oh my Lord! I seek refuge with You from the suggestions of the evil ones [Kafirs]. And I seek refuge with you, my Lord, from their presence.

A Kafir is disgraced—

37:18 Tell them, “Yes! And you [Kafirs] will be disgraced.”

A Kafir is cursed—

33:60 They [Kafirs] will be cursed, and wherever they are found, they will be seized and murdered. It was Allah’s same practice with those who came before them, and you will find no change in Allah’s ways.

Religion of peace, they say, the foundations of Islam are built on hate and spread by the sword.

https://www.politicalislam.com/sharia-law-for-non-muslims-chapter-5-the-kafir/

The thing about theologies is they tend to be malleable and highly interpretative. A prime example being hadiths, which exist to help interpret the Koran,. The reason of course is that theological scripture tends to be quite contradictory, one minute they preach love, next hell on earth. So it's not quite as clean cut as you copy and paste job suggests. What you are essentially suggesting by quoting the Koran is that a Muslim must be religiously absolute, which in reality is nigh on impossible. It is incredibly naive to presume societies are capable of being religiously absolute, because humans are far too complex, with our actions unavoidably dictated by a wide range of emotions. A prime example being many of the gulf states which are deemed to be more extreme examples of Muslim societies, and yet they are incredibly wealthy. Materialism is clearly present within these societies. So posting extracts from the Koran is pointless it is mere guidance and people tend to follow guidance when it suits them.

Quoted from jaygy

I consider myself a floating voter that was swaying towards Tory but my vote will go to the party that can promise that they will put money back into services that will protect myself and my family. At the minute we are at war in our own country no matter how small a minority these mindless idiots are and Trident is not going to stop these kind of attacks so surely they need to pull that funding to protect us from being killed on our own streets more and more. If labour can promise this then they get my vote

I wouldn't get to hopeful that Labour would actually keep a promise on this the Party is now run by a man who opposed every single anti terror legislation under his own party Spanning 30 years, he was against shoot to kill but seem to have suddenly changed his mind conveniently, and to top it off when we was at war with the IRA terrorist he decided to support them foooking traitor, just saying!

Quoted from Mariner93er

The thing about theologies is they tend to be malleable and highly interpretative. A prime example being hadiths, which exist to help interpret the Koran,. The reason of course is that theological scripture tends to be quite contradictory, one minute they preach love, next hell on earth. So it's not quite as clean cut as you copy and paste job suggests. What you are essentially suggesting by quoting the Koran is that a Muslim must be religiously absolute, which in reality is nigh on impossible. It is incredibly naive to presume societies are capable of being religiously absolute, because humans are far too complex, with our actions unavoidably dictated by a wide range of emotions. A prime example being many of the gulf states which are deemed to be more extreme examples of Muslim societies, and yet they are incredibly wealthy. Materialism is clearly present within these societies. So posting extracts from the Koran is pointless it is mere guidance and people tend to follow guidance when it suits them.

Guidance like this.

[youtube]9Rv9F-NoRlY[/youtube]

[youtube]IRPzkB5mr1U[/youtube]

Quoted from Grim74

I wouldn't get to hopeful that Labour would actually keep a promise on this the Party is now run by a man who opposed every single anti terror legislation under his own party Spanning 30 years, he was against shoot to kill but seem to have suddenly changed his mind conveniently, and to top it off when we was at war with the IRA terrorist he decided to support them foooking traitor, just saying!

Tories however, keep all their promises i presume?

I also think you and others don't quite grasp that Corbyn is not the Labour party, merely it's current leader, so his personal votes and opinions don't mean that these things will automatically come to pass. It's called democracy.

Different sects and islamic scholars have wasted a lot of time on trying to interpret, understand and apply the teachings of the Koran when Marinerz93 has had a quick scan and could talk them all through it. It's obviously a lot simpler than they'd have you believe.

Quoted from MarinerMal

I see you are still speaking from a position of fear, anger and ignorance, very much ignorance.

You have a very narrow view of Islam which I'm sure the vast majority of Muslims would disagree with your take on their religion. Many would be willing to educate you, not with anger and hate but with love and compassion.

In the name of Christianity many Muslims have been murdered and slaughtered and to many, this still still going on with the likes of the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan and the bombs from the war on terror claiming innocent Muslim lives as "collateral damage". I'm sure you feel we're justified, how do you think they feel?

So it seems attacking their countries, invading them and bombing them only seems to exacerbate the problem. We need to show them our freedom of individual choice, our tolerance. Open up these societies, learn to integrate with them so they can integrate with us. Let them see the ones who commit such atrocious acts, attack their way of life as well as ours. Maybe then it will be a little tougher to radicalise people.

The concert seem like an excellent way to respond to the terrorists. What they chose to attack didn't stop it and only led to an even larger event broadcast around the world.I'm not sure how you could see it as an insult to the victims, I see it as a tribute. They were concert goers or parents of concert goings that was obviously what they loved to do. It showed the terrorists all they achieved was to force us all more together, to carry on as we do. To see the massive courage shown by all those children who attended and their parents, the tears from the young girl who sang on stage with Ariana Grande and the school choir, who must have been scared stiff but defiantly, carried on singing.

That moved me. You'll need to explain how you saw it all as an insult.

Here we go another cowardly Muslim appeaser it's because of people like you we are in this position, we (and I refer to the liberals) tolerated segregated community's, a society within a society, Islamic schools, sharia law courts, forced marriages, misogyny, FMG, halal meat, the burka, blasphemy, Isis flag flying hate preachers, the  grooming gangs, not having to work because of religion (benefits not effected) and super sized grotesque mosque blotting our landscape, etc.

Now muslims yes muslims from these community's not contempt with raping our children are now blowing them up and stabbing us in the streets so when is enough actually going to be enough for you? You talk about fear as if it's a weakness we was told 2 weeks ago to carry on as normal, well the latest victims on Saturday night were doing exactly that and look we're it got them of course people are in fear, now we are being told to run and hide well intercourse that  I'm ready to fight fear I'm ready to take to the streets right now because I don't want to tolerate this excrement anymore.

Sorry but you are the one who is ignorant or just deluded if you think Islam is a religion of peace just check out these verses from the book they cherish! -

"Lord.....give us victory over the unbelievers" 3:147

" I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads,strike off the very finger tips of their fingers" 8:12

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" 48:29

"Those that deny our revelations we will burn in fire. No sooner will their skin be consumed than we shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise" 4:56

"The unbelievers among the people of the book [bible] and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of creatures"  98:6

Hardly a book of love is it!

I have already stated not all muslims are bad but it's totally ignorant to assume it's only a small minority check out you tube and you will find plenty of vile Muslim extremists demanding full sharia, check out Stacey Doolie a respected journalist who made a documentary on her home town Luton and this will blow out the water your illusion of love and compassion for us infidels. Our prisons are now full of radicals it's been announced we now have an army of 23000 jihadists on our streets and not the 3000 previously mentioned, and thousands of sympathisers and all this when we are told the Muslim population in the U.K. Is less than 5%. Scary!!

Please don't give me in the name of Christianity crap we are slaughtering Muslims' absolutely treacherous comment, Isis have already said many times that our foreign policy is secondary when it comes to wanting to kill us and besides we now have Coptic Christians that are being murdered in Egypt by Muslim extremists for days on end now and this has nothing to do with our foreign policy, again  it's about Islamic nutters preaching the same old hatred and carrying out the killings of non believers as instructed by their beloved  book of evil.