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Cloudy |
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Whiskey Drinker
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Surely the club should tell the fans how they voted??
They had four options; 1) 64-team format to include 16 invited teams 2) 48-team format on a straight knockout basis 3) 48-team format with a group stage followed by knockout rounds 4) Abandon the competition
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Mariner_09 |
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I'd go option C with much increased prize money to allow cheap tickets.
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Heisenberg |
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I'd go option C with much increased prize money to allow cheap tickets.
Option C, eh?! Didn't see that listed up there..... Option 2 for me, straight knock-out, although Option 3 (or C, as you called it) would give Slade the guaranteed chance of playing more games with the fringe players, which is personally what I think this competition should be used for.
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Mariner Ronnie |
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Option 2 all the way,
I see on twitter that Notts county have voted for b teams 😒
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| Today we got our team back - town fan leaving Wembley may 2016 |
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Cloudy |
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Whiskey Drinker
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Option 3 for me with the groups being closely rationalised i.e. Town, Scunny, Gimps and Donny?? Maybe initially play groups pre season?
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Grumps |
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RichMariner |
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It's the FA Trophy of the Football League. No one's really interested until the latter stages when Wembley becomes a real possibility.
I've no idea how much this competition generates in terms of revenue. As I understand it, last year's disastrous format actually guaranteed more money for each club, so you can see why some clubs will vote for it again.
However, other clubs will see the fixtures as an inconvenience - especially if they're not allowed to name whatever starting XI they choose.
My hunch is that Shaun Harvey will get his way and the competition will remain broadly the same, with a few tweaks made here and there.
We, as paying fans, with a representative on the board, should be told how we voted.
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psgmariner |
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Option 4.
Why bother keeping it alive. Nobody wants it.
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Civvy at last |
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Option 4.
Why bother keeping it alive. Nobody wants it.
Actually, if it makes money without selling our soul then I do.
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| The wife was going away for a girly weekend. I jokingly remarked 'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football' 'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked She said 'Well you already know how to play football' |
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub |
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Bearing in mind how few reserve games there are in a season this can be one of the few opportunities to keep a full squad active and try one or two kids at a (theoretically) higher level.
But, under no circumstances would I like to see the B Team experiment continue so that really only leaves Option 3 - some group games and perhaps a bit of knockout.
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| “If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty." |
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Mariner_09 |
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Bearing in mind how few reserve games there are in a season this can be one of the few opportunities to keep a full squad active and try one or two kids at a (theoretically) higher level.
But, under no circumstances would I like to see the B Team experiment continue so that really only leaves Option 3 - some group games and perhaps a bit of knockout.
Thing is you're not allowed to play younger players. Luton were fined for playing a youthful side against a BPL youth team with over age players!
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GrimRob |
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Can't believe people don't want it, we've been to Wembley twice in this competition. The game in 1998 was one of the finest moments of my life as a Town fan! Last year was a failed experiment but no reason to dump it. Who wouldn't want local derbies with teams Scunny and Lincoln????
I say invite the Conference teams if they need more numbers, even the Championship teams as long as it's the full team not the U-23 one. Get rid of groups, too many meaningless games.
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| 'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
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Mariner_09 |
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No Groups with ones like
Plymouth, Exeter, Bristol Rovers and Yeovil
or
Morecambe, Blackpool, Carlisle and Wigan
or
Us, Scunny, Donny and Lincoln
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moosey_club |
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Thing is you're not allowed to play younger players. Luton were fined for playing a youthful side against a BPL youth team with over age players!
Factually incorrect 09...they werent fined for playing a youthful side at all, in the words of Mr Harvey himself... "We didn't actually fine clubs for playing younger players. We fined them for not playing enough senior ones" Please keep to facts or this forum will be in danger of being closed down.
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Mariner_09 |
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Whiskey Drinker
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Factually incorrect 09...they werent fined for playing a youthful side at all, in the words of Mr Harvey himself... "We didn't actually fine clubs for playing younger players. We fined them for not playing enough senior ones" Please keep to facts or this forum will be in danger of being closed down.
Thank you very much for picking me up on this point of crucial importance. What a prat that Harvey is!
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| I've wasted my life in black and white, a pathetic act for a worthless cause |
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Abdul19 |
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I'm intrigued by how exactly option 2 works.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub |
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Thing is you're not allowed to play younger players. Luton were fined for playing a youthful side against a BPL youth team with over age players!
I know, but I'm only talking about one or two players being promoted to the squad not fielding half of the junior team like Luton were doing. It's just a case of making the best of a bad job isn't it?
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| “If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty." |
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AussieMariner |
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I'm intrigued by how exactly option 2 works.
The final will be played with three teams on a triangular pitch. Or maybe a system of byes - e.g. 16 byes in the 1st round would leave 32 teams in the 2nd.
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moosey_club |
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Thank you very much for picking me up on this point of crucial importance.
What a prat that Harvey is!
Yes, i fell into thinking the same as you when i first heard the story, i had felt sorry for Luton as i thought they made a stance ...however on reading Mr Harveys explanation i now fully agree with him that Luton acted dispicably and deserved to be fined.
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Mariner_09 |
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Whiskey Drinker
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I'm intrigued by how exactly option 2 works.
Aren't some teams given a "by" we were given one in 2008 or 2009 if memory serves me correctly
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| I've wasted my life in black and white, a pathetic act for a worthless cause |
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ginnywings |
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I'm old fashioned, so a good old knock out competition for me. Like Abdul, i can't see how that would work with 48 teams, unless Harvey has some cunning plan up his sleeve to show how clever he is.
Second choice would be option 3, which would allow fringe players a bit of competitive footy but dilutes the competition somewhat in my eyes.
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headingly_mariner |
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I'd like to see it stay without B teams. If it was regionalised groups it would be decent.
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Abdul19 |
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Aren't some teams given a "by" we were given one in 2008 or 2009 if memory serves me correctly
That was probably our best result around then
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Abdul19 |
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The final will be played with three teams on a triangular pitch.
Can you delete this before Mr Harvey reads it.
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Grim74 |
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Why is there a buy tickets fuor Hull city advertisement on this forum someone taking the urine?
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| Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Promise a man someone else's fish and he votes Labour. |
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headingly_mariner |
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would be good for the club to make it clear how they have voted.
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bax |
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Table Wine Drinker
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Why is there a buy tickets fuor Hull city advertisement on this forum someone taking the urine?
Ads will be tailored to your internet browsing history!
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psgmariner |
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Nonsense. All the ones I get are for tackle enlargement.
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Grim74 |
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Cocktail Drinker
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Have to have words with my lad then when he comes in, Unforgiveable😤
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| Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Promise a man someone else's fish and he votes Labour. |
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jaygy |
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Fine Wine Drinker
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Mine is showing advertisements for russianwives.com, I already have one wife that annoys the life out of me and spends all my money, I don't need another!
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Balthazar Bullitt |
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Mine is showing advertisements for russianwives.com, I already have one wife that annoys the life out of me and spends all my money, I don't need another!
If Vladimir says you need another wife you're getting another wife
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KingstonMariner |
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Meths Drinker
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I get ads for Muslim wives. And I'm the biggest frigging infidel out there. How is that targeted marketing?
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| Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same. |
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Southwark Mariner |
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Mine seems to suggest I need a comfy pair of deck shoes for when I'm next hanging someone.
[img]https://puu.sh/vKEBQ/0f7120e8fd.png[/img]
or maybe I'm reading too much into it....maybe they just mean general footwear.
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moosey_club |
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Mine seems to suggest I need a comfy pair of deck shoes for when I'm next hanging someone.
[img]https://puu.sh/vKEBQ/0f7120e8fd.png[/img]
or maybe I'm reading too much into it....maybe they just mean general footwear.
from those legs i think its suggesting you need a waxing ..
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KingstonMariner |
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Meths Drinker
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Nothing to do with that bondage website you visit then?
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| Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same. |
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Balthazar Bullitt |
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I know those gallows can get a bit slippy, but that's health and safety gone mad
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LH |
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I get adverts for Ukrainian Brides. I already live with my girlfriend who is of Ukrainian descent and there is no chance I'd make that mistake twice.
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cjbill |
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I keep getting the Hull Tahhhgers advert too! You are not alone
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jamesgtfc |
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It is not an option but 64 teams with the 2 relegated teams and top 14 Conference teams making up the balance.
Regionalise the groups and then make the knockouts regionalised too so the final is a northern and southern team to keep travelling expenses down throughout the competition.
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Marinerz93 |
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Option 2, how did you vote JF.
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| Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.
Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock. |
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Cloudy |
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Why won't the club keep the supporters advised?? One major point of the Trust was to facilitate dialogue between the club and supporters.
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KingstonMariner |
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For the FL to sneak this out at the climax of the season smacks of the worst aspects of news management. Getting the bad news out while the football world is concentrating on promotion and survival and finals.
Sneaky little Harvey.
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| Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same. |
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headingly_mariner |
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Great to see the comments from Accrington's chairman. I hope this is the start of clubs speaking out against the Premier League and the cretins that run the EFL
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Meza |
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Yeah but did you read the PL response to accys chairman headingly. Typical PL.
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| [URL=https://imgur.com/VCxdH2Y][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VCxdH2Ys.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/uMRVvRe][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/uMRVvRes.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/5p7nllT][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/5p7nllTs.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/46BEw5M][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/46BEw5Ms.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/06NXnQF][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/06NXnQFs.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
My Grimsby Legends |
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StaffsMariner |
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Love this from the Notts County chairman Alan Hardy. "When you build a financial business model for a business that is losing £1.4m a year, every £20,000 is vital to reduce its trading debt" Who has a business model at our level that can afford a 1.4m loss each year. Surely thats just called spending more than you can afford.
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jamesgtfc |
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Did I read somewhere that we still made a profit from our trophy games last season? If so, you can understand why a chairman would vote yes.
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Mariner_09 |
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Mr Fenty would never allow that, he makes sure that we only make a small loss and we made a small profit last year, presume after the Omar sale and much increased gates we'll make a profit this season, unless Bignot destroyed that.
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| I've wasted my life in black and white, a pathetic act for a worthless cause |
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headingly_mariner |
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Yeah but did you read the PL response to accys chairman headingly. Typical PL.
I did, shows what complete mammaries they are.
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headingly_mariner |
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Reports on twitter suggesting that the EFL clubs have voted to go for the same format as last season. Rumour is that clubs have been sent an embargoed press realease. a complete failure for football if true and another complete boycott needed.
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LH |
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Boycott as in a proper boycott. Doesn't matter if you need to go to an away game because it's the last in your 92 or you're on 999 consecutive Town games and want your 1000. Don't go because the FL and PL are properly having your and hundreds of thousands of others pants down over this.
Likewise if it goes back to the original format we should try and get a big crowd in for all of our games to prove a point.
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Cloudy |
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Reports on twitter suggesting that the EFL clubs have voted to go for the same format as last season. Rumour is that clubs have been sent an embargoed press realease. a complete failure for football if true and another complete boycott needed.
If true then it just proves to fans that money is far more important that they are. I cannot really influence how other clubs vote but I do need to know how GTFC voted. If, as I suspect they have gone against the fans wishes then not a lot I can do other than withdraw my (small) financial support of advertising, player shirt sponsorship, Trust membership etc Not a fortune but about £2,500 over the year
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headingly_mariner |
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Boycott as in a proper boycott. Doesn't matter if you need to go to an away game because it's the last in your 92 or you're on 999 consecutive Town games and want your 1000. Don't go because the FL and PL are properly having your and hundreds of thousands of others pants down over this.
Likewise if it goes back to the original format we should try and get a big crowd in for all of our games to prove a point.
Completely agree, I'd like for my Son to grow up seeing Grimsby Town playing other clubs first teams, not premiership reserves. I do hope that whatever the format that Grimsby Town did not vote for B teams. It'd be great if our club made a bit of a stand on behalf of fans. I think if we were fined for playing the reserves then the fans would crowdfund the fine.
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ginnywings |
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The cloak and dagger nature of the vote speaks volumes to me. Why the secrecy?
They know it's not popular with fans but they plough on regardless, all the time telling us that last years competition was a success. Success for who would be my question.
If the competition is the same format as last year, it will be a boycott from me again.
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SteffiMariner |
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My head says: from a business perspective, the inclusion of B teams means that the board should vote for this option. If this means we can sign a better player(s) that can promote us up the league, then I would have to go for it, too.
My heart says: it's a meaningless lower league competition for lower league clubs that gave me absolute joy when we won it. Keep the B teams out of it and let the dross fight out for the wembley trip.
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headingly_mariner |
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My head says: from a business perspective, the inclusion of B teams means that the board should vote for this option. If this means we can sign a better player(s) that can promote us up the league, then I would have to go for it, too.
At what cost in the long term? There is an agenda in the FA and Premier League to include B teams in the football pyramid. Allowing them into the trophy could be the beginning of this. It will be clubs like Grimsby Town that lose their place in the league to some Premier League reserve side. Unfashionable clubs like ours are the most at threat from this.
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HertsGTFC |
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The cloak and dagger nature of the vote speaks volumes to me. Why the secrecy?
They know it's not popular with fans but they plough on regardless, all the time telling us that last years competition was a success. Success for who would be my question.
If the competition is the same format as last year, it will be a boycott from me again.
I wish I had the will power to commit to this, I know I would leave the group stuff alone quite easily but if we got to the semi's and Wembley I would give in.
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RichMariner |
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Let's wait until the news is released.
Then you can read it in full, try to understand everyone's viewpoint, and then dismiss it as rubbish.
Or...
You can dismiss it as rubbish without reading it to save time.
I'd like to know how the GTFC board voted on this. If it was to retain the current format, I'd then like someone from the club to explain why.
And then I'd like to know why they didn't consult us on the matter.
That really isn't much to ask for in the grand scheme of things.
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ginnywings |
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At what cost in the long term? There is an agenda in the FA and Premier League to include B teams in the football pyramid. Allowing them into the trophy could be the beginning of this. It will be clubs like Grimsby Town that lose their place in the league to some Premier League reserve side. Unfashionable clubs like ours are the most at threat from this.
Totally agree. It's the thin end of the wedge and the money men won't be happy until they control everything and little unfashionable clubs like ours are an irrelevance to them. We cannot let them have an inch.
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Meza |
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I hope town didnt vote yes. If so it puts me and others in such a inexcusable position forcing me to not go to town games and making me feel i have contributed to some of towns loss of income all because of the EFL's brainless antics.
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1739 |
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If true then it just proves to fans that money is far more important that they are.
I cannot really influence how other clubs vote but I do need to know how GTFC voted. If, as I suspect they have gone against the fans wishes then not a lot I can do other than withdraw my (small) financial support of advertising, player shirt sponsorship, Trust membership etc Not a fortune but about £2,500 over the year
I and 4 others will be doing the same with not buying season tickets and shirts if we have voted in favour of the competition. The competition is a farce and makes a mockery of the fans of these clubs. It depends on how much you would put on a price of the soul of football I suppose. D
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Grantham_Mariner |
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Oh bu99er
[tweet]862970787300601857[/tweet]
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IlkleyMariner |
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Absolutely appalling stitch up yet again. And not for one, but two years! My personal boycott will certainly continue.
Fishy folk might want to read an excellent article by a Notts County friend of mine who puts the case against this decision very well. His name is Ian Marsden and you can find him on Facebook/twitter.
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diehardmariner |
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Money talks, again.
Shaun Harvey has got more lives than a cat!
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Hagrid |
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Cloudy |
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Money talks, again.
Shaun Harvey has got more lives than a cat!
Agreed but without the backing of Chairmen/Owners then this debacle would have died a death.
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diehardmariner |
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Absolutely.
They've given him the thumbs up to continue with his antics. This was the perfect opportunity to make a statement and throw him on his sword.
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ginnywings |
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Shows fans opinions don't matter anymore, if they ever did. Another nail in the footy coffin and the game is slowly but surely losing it's appeal for me. This will be the start of change to the detriment of us lower league teams, you just know it. Money talks folks and the Chairmen are listening.
The threat to the Accy chairman the other day shows that they are slowly but surely starting to strangle the game, giving clubs just enough money to survive but not enough to flourish, with the threat of withdrawing that money always hanging in the air like a bad smell.
Think that's just made up my mind whether to buy a season ticket.
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LH |
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Time for the trust to be bold and reveal how Town voted if Town aren't willing to disclose it themselves.
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ginnywings |
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66% voted for it i have just read and not just for this season but the next 2 seasons. Slimy Harvey gets his way.
Prize money increased to 3 million, so we can see why it was accepted. At least Luton discussed their decision with fans groups. The chance would have been a fine thing.
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RichMariner |
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Tempting lower league clubs with a bigger prize pot.
I can see why clubs that don't have a pot to p1ss in would be tempted by the new offer.
Football being played in front of crowds of 500 but getting a bit more £££
That's a serious imbalance. What's football going to become if it doesn't need fans?
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ginnywings |
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Tempting lower league clubs with a bigger prize pot.
I can see why clubs that don't have a pot to p1ss in would be tempted by the new offer.
Football being played in front of crowds of 500 but getting a bit more £££
That's a serious imbalance. What's football going to become if it doesn't need fans?
The Premier League.
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StaffsMariner |
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Shocking decision by all involved. Before b teams 23% of starters were english u21's, well done league 1 + 2. Bteams moved that to 27% meaning less league 1+2 youngsters were given a chance because of the rules. Gates plummeted. Average age of starters went up! % of foreign starters went up. Premier league U21 academy sides (that were voted on) became U23 sides from anyone they could get to take part. Decisions made without asking which Premier league clubs want to take part...again I look forward to Coventry v Coventry u23 academy
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GrimRob |
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Our group was a joke last year because it wasn't at all local. If they are going to have groups, ours should be something like:
Grimsby, Hull U23, Scunthorpe and Lincoln
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ginnywings |
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Our group was a joke last year because it wasn't at all local. If they are going to have groups, ours should be something like:
Grimsby, Hull U23, Scunthorpe and Lincoln
Does it matter who's in the group? It's just wrong full stop.
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GrimRob |
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Does it matter who's in the group? It's just wrong full stop.
Agreed but the product they came up with was pretty poor it has to be said, and our final game was a pointless dead rubber match to boot! The group games everywhere were poorly attended but they picked up in later rounds and 74,000 people went to the final!
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bradzmilne |
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Disappointed by the result but I'm beyond the point of being surprised anymore. It's so clearly the the megabucks in the Premier League will get them whatever they want in English Football. Which is what scares me so much because we all know where this is going too end up. 'B' Teams infiltrating the Football League and once and for all ripping the soul out of the best lower system in the world.
Grimsby Town vs. West Brom 'B' on a Saturday afternoon... I've supported town through thick and thin. Been to grounds that are more comparable too parks than a football stadium but I don't think I could stomach that. It's simply degrading to our proud club and heritage and the same can be said for 99% of clubs in the FL. What hurts most though is that it is seemingly inevitable now by the silence that as a club we've let it happen - we've accepted the bribe to let the Premier League through the back door. (I'll be the first one too come out and apologise if this is not the case. I'd also be very bloody proud of my Football club).
Sick too death of being a play toy for the Premier League, against modern football.
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| Sleep well Icey, Matty and Richard. Keep each other company up there xx
4 Relegations in 18 Years - John Fenty’s legacy. |
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SteffiMariner |
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Disappointed by the result but I'm beyond the point of being surprised anymore. It's so clearly the the megabucks in the Premier League will get them whatever they want in English Football. Which is what scares me so much because we all know where this is going too end up. 'B' Teams infiltrating the Football League and once and for all ripping the soul out of the best lower system in the world.
Grimsby Town vs. West Brom 'B' on a Saturday afternoon... I've supported town through thick and thin. Been to grounds that are more comparable too parks than a football stadium but I don't think I could stomach that. It's simply degrading to our proud club and heritage and the same can be said for 99% of clubs in the FL. What hurts most though is that it is seemingly inevitable now by the silence that as a club we've let it happen - we've accepted the bribe to let the Premier League through the back door. (I'll be the first one too come out and apologise if this is not the case. I'd also be very bloody proud of my Football club).
Sick too death of being a play toy for the Premier League, against modern football.
Just out of interest to everyone, would you be happy to play a B team if they came through the football pyramid?
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Hagrid |
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Just out of interest to everyone, would you be happy to play a B team if they came through the football pyramid?
no
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headingly_mariner |
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Just out of interest to everyone, would you be happy to play a B team if they came through the football pyramid?
no
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bradzmilne |
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Absolutely not.
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| Sleep well Icey, Matty and Richard. Keep each other company up there xx
4 Relegations in 18 Years - John Fenty’s legacy. |
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Mariner_09 |
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Under absolutely no circumstances.
The Premier League is intent on destroying the smaller clubs firstly through playing FA Cup games on weeknights and abolishing replays, then by adding a winter break, and then be gradually bringing B teams into the league.
It's a complete shambles.
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IlkleyMariner |
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no
No and no Think I will watch my local non-league teams next season
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headingly_mariner |
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Do we have any indication of how Town voted yet?
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TownSNAFU5 |
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Any new temporary measures introduced for a fixed time period have a habit of quietly continuing into permanance.
Bad ideas need strangling at birth. It may already be too late for that.
Prem clubs should be careful for they wish for. In 20-30 years time there might be no football pyramid to support them.
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GrimRob |
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To turn the question on its head, if the participation of the U-23 sides in the EFL Trophy was the full extent of the EPL sides involvement in the fixture list, would it bother you?
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| 'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
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GrimRob |
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Of the big sides, only Chelsea and Everton fielded teams last year so even the big PL clubs largely boycotted it. I suspect many England internationals of the future never even benefitted from playing the likes of us. Surely the best chance of getting this tournament to fail would be to persuade the PL and Champ sides not to take part, it would be a total joke if they had to invite Conference sides! Most of those who did take part were knocked out quite early.
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| 'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
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Civvy at last |
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Of the big sides, only Chelsea and Everton fielded teams last year so even the big PL clubs largely boycotted it. I suspect many England internationals of the future never even benefitted from playing the likes of us. Surely the best chance of getting this tournament to fail would be to persuade the PL and Champ sides not to take part, it would be a total joke if they had to invite Conference sides! Most of those who did take part were knocked out quite early.
The best way to get this tournament to fail would be for owners and chairmen and CEO's to stop sucking Shaun Harvey's member and fking vote NO.
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Freemoash88 |
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I've always said not sure if anyone would agree but scrap the FA trophy or leave it to the North and south clubs and lower. Bring the National League into it and have 3 leagues. It gives the National league teams a good day out and vise versa.
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BraStrap |
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It didn't make a scrap of difference either way what our club voted since there was a big majority in favour of the current format. 50 league chairmen can't be wrong can they?
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headingly_mariner |
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It didn't make a scrap of difference either way what our club voted since there was a big majority in favour of the current format. 50 league chairmen can't be wrong can they?
Yes they can. It makes a huge difference which way we voted as the club we're completely aware of the majority of fans feelings. "I certainly don't think the competition has been successful, and talking it up has been foolhardy," "There has clearly been unrest and there's been a massive rejection from the fans." John Fenty in the GET on April 7th If we voted against we can be proud of the stance the club has taken. A vote for and we have been let down.
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Mariner Ronnie |
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Do we have any indication of how Town voted yet?
I seem to remember at some point, John fenty came to the conclusion that the competition wasn't successful in its current format.
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| Today we got our team back - town fan leaving Wembley may 2016 |
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KingstonMariner |
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It didn't make a scrap of difference either way what our club voted since there was a big majority in favour of the current format. 50 league chairmen can't be wrong can they?
Of course there's a point. Let's set aside the moral point about voting for what the fans want. In practical terms, each vote that is switched from a vote for to a vote against is a swing of 2. Instead of it being 48 for and 24 against it becomes 47 for and 25 against. You only need 12 of those to stop any majority 'for'. Might even be fewer switches needed if there's a qualified majority vote needed. And yes 50 league chairmen can be wrong. There can be no presumption of fitness to make decisions in the interests of their own clubs let alone on behalf of football in general. Look at the Oystons or Bechetti. I would make an assumption that they were wrong based on history. Or Mike Ashley? I wouldn't trust him to make a decision in the interests of other people. I'm sure there are many more.
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KingstonMariner |
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It didn't make a scrap of difference either way what our club voted since there was a big majority in favour of the current format. 50 league chairmen can't be wrong can they?
PS are you called Brastrap because you support a pair of mammaries?
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There are a lot of clubs like Blackpool and Orient that have owner who take no notice of what fans think and do what they want !
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So we voted for it. What a total disgrace
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From a fans view it's obviously a disgtace, but if I were chairman, I don't think I could put my hand on my heart and swear that I would not have made the same decision. Ultimately, I think the statement justifies the decision. We can't afford to lose money through other formats, yet it's true that we still need such a competition for squad players to get games.
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From a fans view it's obviously a disgtace, but if I were chairman, I don't think I could put my hand on my heart and swear that I would not have made the same decision. Ultimately, I think the statement justifies the decision. We can't afford to lose money through other formats, yet it's true that we still need such a competition for squad players to get games.
Exactly. I think the football clubs were railroaded into the decision. From a financial point of view it would have been suicide not to accept it.
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John Fenty, club director, is seething at the suggestion that the club has been described as being instrumental in bringing about changes to the Checkatrade Trophy. He said "The fact is Grimsby Town FC complained bitterly and made several representations on different fronts. These were at formal meetings and twice in writing. "Our issue had been about how decisions made by the clubs collectively were then changed without reference back to the clubs. We are also concerned that the EFL has done nothing at all to get the fans on board. "The main concern expressed by fans is that the inclusion of Category 1 Academy clubs is the thin edge of the wedge leading to Premier League B teams being admitted into the League. This will not happen. For a team to be so admitted needs 90% of clubs in the League to vote in favour. This means that it only needs 8 Clubs to block such a move. We have spoken to many clubs at EFL meetings and when we have played them and not one club we have spoken to has been in favour. Grimsby Town F C would never vote for this. We hope therefore that this puts this suggestion to bed once and for all. "Why the EFL has not reiterated this to appease fans concerns leaves me baffled. "The options finally put to clubs left little choice on how to vote. "All clubs naturally want to play competitive football, and to be able to give those players that aren't in the first team, plus the young pros, an opportunity to play. So, cancelling the competition wasn't an acceptable option. "The rules have been changed to enable EFL teams to play more young players and those who are not regular members of the first team. In addition, the invited Category 1 teams will be restricted to at least six under 21 players and not under 23 players as last season. "It's not an acceptable option either to have a localised regional element with just League 1&2 clubs without guaranteed funds as there would very likely be costs well in excess of the gate receipts. "So, we've been left with no choice but to go along with the same format as last season, albeit with amendments. "It cannot be said that Grimsby Town FC have been instrumental in making changes to the competition as it is blatantly untrue, a point which will be taken up with the EFL vigorously." Read more at http://www.grimsby-townfc.co.u.....#fULkfQtLcCPk0TRd.99
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headingly_mariner |
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From a fans view it's obviously a disgtace, but if I were chairman, I don't think I could put my hand on my heart and swear that I would not have made the same decision. Ultimately, I think the statement justifies the decision. We can't afford to lose money through other formats, yet it's true that we still need such a competition for squad players to get games.
It doesn't justify it, it's excuses as to why the fans were ignored. We don't have a chairman. I think making a principled decision would have seen the fans raise funds for the club.
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A football club can't be run on the hopes fans will raise money to cover not playing in a competition. The club's finances are not worth risking over a competition which most fans didn't care about that much anyway. If it was over the league, that would be different.
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A football club can't be run on the hopes fans will raise money to cover not playing in a competition. The club's finances are not worth risking over a competition which most fans didn't care about that much anyway. If it was over the league, that would be different.
It's short sighted and naive to think that b team invlovment in lower league competition is not a threat to our club's place in league football.
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Interesting read by JF, one of his better PR pieces.
Sounds like there is slightly more too this than meets the eye and the FL have bent the arms of the clubs, in order too get what they... Or should I say the Premier League wants. Bitterly disappointed never the less but it does seem that it was the only viable option.
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It's a strong response, and a pretty decent one.
But why oh why didn't the club share its position with us sooner?!
Much of that article is about quashing the rumours, which gathered pace while GTFC said nothing.
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We would still have made more money if it had stayed the old format. Town fans would turn up in sufficient numbers for any competitive game, i know i would. I won't however turn up for this competition while it is being dictated by greedy Prem clubs who have too many players and don't know what to do with them.
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Bigdog |
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Am I missing something here?
If the clubs vote down the proposal, all of the clubs don't get the money. Level playing field still exists because all of the clubs would adjust their playing budgets by the same amount. Their players lose out increased wages wise as a high proportion of the extra money most probably goes on higher playing budgets. Yes we will be getting a higher income having the same format and the bribe that goes with it, but on the other hand our outgoings will rise due to the joint scramble to sign the best players available.
The missed PR opportunity is that JF should have voted with the fans and unless his vote ended up being the one that swung the result other way, it would have no consequence on the outcome. He missed a personal win win there..
Sometimes principles can come before money as a non-chairman.. Do we as a club just vote for anything if there seems to be extra income in it? JF, what happens if every League One and League Two club gets offered £20m each by the Premier League to allow a League Five with Premier League B teams. What happens then? If you can vote for this for an extra £10-20k (if we don't win any games or reach the final) after increased wage costs, I wouldn't trust you further down the road if there's proper money on offer from Shaun Harvey..
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1739 |
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If JF hasn't took the fans opinions on board on this occasion then it just shows that the fans won't get get consulted about anything to do with the new stadium. If Harvey and his mates deem it a success again then it will be the death of lower league football as this will be seen as a licence for them to introduce B teams into the football league pyramid. 66 % of clubs voted in favour of the competition which shows there are a few clubs in the country who take on board the fans feelings towards the competition.
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Some decent regionalised groups that would spark some local interest.. Better than Walsall away or Leicester U23 anyway.
GTFC, Scunthorpe, Lincoln, Doncaster
Notts County, Mansfield, Chesterfield, Rotherham
Portsmouth, Crawley, AFC Wimbledon, Charlton
Exeter, Plymouth, Yeovil, Newport
Gillingham, Southend, Colchester, Millwall
Bristol Rovers, Swindon, Oxford, Cheltenham
Carlisle, Fleetwood, Morecambe, Blackpool
Coventry, Walsall, Shrewsbury, Port Vale
Peterborough, Cambridge, Northampton, MK Dons
Rochdale, Accrington, Bury, Blackburn
Tranmere, Wigan, Crewe, Oldham
Barnet, Luton, Stevenage, Wycombe
Low travel costs and times and some cracking derbies in there..
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KingstonMariner |
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A football club can't be run on the hopes fans will raise money to cover not playing in a competition. The club's finances are not worth risking over a competition which most fans didn't care about that much anyway. If it was over the league, that would be different.
How much would we lose?
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KingstonMariner |
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Quoted from 1739
If JF hasn't took the fans opinions on board on this occasion then it just shows that the fans won't get get consulted about anything to do with the new stadium. If Harvey and his mates deem it a success again then it will be the death of lower league football as this will be seen as a licence for them to introduce B teams into the football league pyramid. 66 % of clubs voted in favour of the competition which shows there are a few clubs in the country who take on board the fans feelings towards the competition.
That's a very good point. As I said in another post, the wrong decision/vote undermines confidence in those who run clubs and the game.
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Some decent regionalised groups that would spark some local interest.. Better than Walsall away or Leicester U23 anyway.
GTFC, Scunthorpe, Lincoln, Doncaster
Notts County, Mansfield, Chesterfield, Rotherham
Portsmouth, Crawley, AFC Wimbledon, Charlton
Exeter, Plymouth, Yeovil, Newport
Gillingham, Southend, Colchester, Millwall
Bristol Rovers, Swindon, Oxford, Cheltenham
Carlisle, Fleetwood, Morecambe, Blackpool
Coventry, Walsall, Shrewsbury, Port Vale
Peterborough, Cambridge, Northampton, MK Dons
Rochdale, Accrington, Bury, Blackburn
Tranmere, Wigan, Crewe, Oldham
Barnet, Luton, Stevenage, Wycombe
Low travel costs and times and some cracking derbies in there..
This!
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If I wanted to watch youth players I would go and watch Towns youth, when I go to a professional game, I want to see first team players from both teams going hell for leather to win a game of football.
If Fenty can't see this is thin edge of the wedge of what Havey wants he gets then he doesn't understand that some loon in power is very capable of ruining the lower leagues because of ego and buying Chairman's votes.
The outrage of fans across all clubs was clear and that should have been message enough to all clubs to vote against this regardless of the size of the carrot that was being hung out.
This venture Fenty will cost you again and you only have yourself to blame, shame on you.
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BackHeelTony |
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I think the main problem here is that Mr Ferry and the board make thier decisions based on finances.
The option they chose is the most financially viable for the football club next season.
Us fans look at the bigger picture. We simply don't trust premier league teams or the EFL to look after the best interests of our club (and clubs like ours) in the long term.
However I do think we can trust Fenty and the board to look after our club and stand up to the EFL in the future.
So for now I think we will have to agree to disagree with the boards decision and vote with our feet as we did last year.
As always we'll stick together, show our feelings and fight if we need to.
UTM
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KingstonMariner |
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I think the main problem here is that Mr Ferry and the board make thier decisions based on finances.
The option they chose is the most financially viable for the football club next season.
UTM
I have my doubts about that. I've never seen proof.
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rancido |
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Quoted from 1739
If JF hasn't took the fans opinions on board on this occasion then it just shows that the fans won't get get consulted about anything to do with the new stadium. If Harvey and his mates deem it a success again then it will be the death of lower league football as this will be seen as a licence for them to introduce B teams into the football league pyramid. 66 % of clubs voted in favour of the competition which shows there are a few clubs in the country who take on board the fans feelings towards the competition.
Just because 66% voted in favour of the competition it doesn't mean the inevitable introduction of B teams in the Football League. The Football League require 90% of clubs ( I do believe ) to allow the introduction of B teams and I can never see that happening. It would cause chaos for both relegation and promotion within the leagues . Imagine the scenario if a B team got in a play-off place instead of a " traditional " team. I don't like Harvey and his approach but I think he is trying to keep a fading competition alive because of the sponsorship it brings. Some of the club chairmen are in favour of this cup format because it allows them to " blood " some youngsters in a higher quality game than they normally experience as reserves.
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Just because 66% voted in favour of the competition it doesn't mean the inevitable introduction of B teams in the Football League. The Football League require 90% of clubs ( I do believe ) to allow the introduction of B teams and I can never see that happening. It would cause chaos for both relegation and promotion within the leagues . Imagine the scenario if a B team got in a play-off place instead of a " traditional " team. I don't like Harvey and his approach but I think he is trying to keep a fading competition alive because of the sponsorship it brings. Some of the club chairmen are in favour of this cup format because it allows them to " blood " some youngsters in a higher quality game than they normally experience as reserves.
Stop talking sense. Personally, I think that Fenty could turn this into his advantage. If he made entry for these games £1 per person, people may go and have a cheap match day experience. take the family, and then return for the more important games. Alternatively, he should charge entry at £100 per person to stop any attendance and give a big middle finger to Harvey.
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headingly_mariner |
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Just because 66% voted in favour of the competition it doesn't mean the inevitable introduction of B teams in the Football League. The Football League require 90% of clubs ( I do believe ) to allow the introduction of B teams and I can never see that happening. It would cause chaos for both relegation and promotion within the leagues . Imagine the scenario if a B team got in a play-off place instead of a " traditional " team. I don't like Harvey and his approach but I think he is trying to keep a fading competition alive because of the sponsorship it brings. Some of the club chairmen are in favour of this cup format because it allows them to " blood " some youngsters in a higher quality game than they normally experience as reserves.
There is an agenda in both the FA and Premier League to pursue the introduction of B Teams into the pyramid. They think it'll improve the England team and make the PL stronger. They've been open about this, but there is huge opposition against it. Even with the opposition against the trophy format they've been able to shoehorn it in. They'll be trying with the league next and it'll be weak chairman getting their head turned by a few quid that'll vote it through and say "we had no choice". There is no benefit to league teams from this other than a little boost in income. It perpetuates the problem of PL teams hoarding players and not loaning them out because they can play them in more competitive games.
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HertsGTFC |
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[quote=120870]I think the main problem here is that Mr Ferry and the board make their decisions based on finances.
That's a big part of the role at any club to be honest.
Not been too close to this as I am not that bothered in reality but how much money do the Prem teams have to pay to enter a team? Or are they "invited"?
Seems to me the biggest threat to the EFL is that The Championship clubs break away and become the 2nd tier of the Premier League which looking at how big the top half of the Championship is could be a bigger possibility than Prem B/U23 teams becoming part of the EFL pyramid.
Cosying up to the Prem is not the way to keep them from absorbing your bigger clubs. The solution to stopping this is to limit the amount of "average" foreign players turning out for Prem clubs each week thus allowing your own young talent some opportunity to play 1st team football rather than playing in what are in reality pointless games to them. The only people who can in reality can implement restrictions is the Prem and as we all know "Turkey's don't vote for Christmas".
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One of the promises made by the introduction of the Premier League was that it would strengthen the England team.....................still waiting..................
Meanwhile the Germans, the French, the Italians, even the Greeks and the Danes have won a major competition, or more than one in some cases.
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KingstonMariner |
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I remember that promise Ginny. The FA will never be able to deliver on any such plan because unlike the Bundeslige (sp?) they do not control the game. The clubs here have so much more power vis a vis the game's authorities (and the fans - German fans have an effective veto on their clubs).
Whatever might be ideal to achieve success for England will be watered down.
So whatever they come up with will fail and should be rejected unless they have an effective plan to clip the wings of the clubs.
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Just because 66% voted in favour of the competition it doesn't mean the inevitable introduction of B teams in the Football League. But it does show that a couple of million gets you 66% of votes. What price 90%
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rancido |
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Just because 66% voted in favour of the competition it doesn't mean the inevitable introduction of B teams in the Football League. But it does show that a couple of million gets you 66% of votes. What price 90%
It's one thing voting for a competition that has little impact on the everyday structure of the FL but a completely different scenario voting for a league change that would completely affect the " bread and butter " finances of the clubs involved. The bigger clubs in the lower leagues , ie the ones with the larger attendances, would never agree to a situation that would affect their chances of promotion due to a PL B team being promoted in their place.
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headingly_mariner |
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It's one thing voting for a competition that has little impact on the everyday structure of the FL but a completely different scenario voting for a league change that would completely affect the " bread and butter " finances of the clubs involved. The bigger clubs in the lower leagues , ie the ones with the larger attendances, would never agree to a situation that would affect their chances of promotion due to a PL B team being promoted in their place.
It's not the bigger clubs in the FL that need to be worried. I'm sure they'd put a cap on how high B Teams could go. It's the clubs like ours that need to be worried, club's that nobody but our own fanbase cares about. A few million quid and the chairman start changing their mind.
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