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WesternMariner |
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I know many would say the third word of the title is a bit of a misnomer however I've been told reliably that Hullberside police no longer have a GTFC fio the position has been abolished and an officer on the north bank is dealing with Hull Scunny and Town. I knew both Doddsy and Alan Rutter before him and although they were never universally popular no doubt due to the nature of the job they had a lot of knowledge about what was going on. I'm fairly sure Doddsy would have had something to say about the Sheffield debacle in advance and who knows if that poor lad might not be in hospital if he was still in post. I'd be interested to know if anyone in authority was aware of this change and whether there was any consultation because I get the impression that the Police have kept this on the QT.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub |
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I agree, putting those words next to each other is an insult to the intelligence. But if you want to know the situation why not ask the Commissioner? Surely all this kerfuffle comes under his remit as the elected chief of police. Not one word has come from there as far as I know.
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dapperz fun pub |
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The copper in charge of the sheff u game clearly didn't know the local area why did he let risk fans from both sides drink so closely together,why did sheff fans go unescorted along the sea wall ,after the game Cleethorpes station became a battlefield. I know the copper in question said he's going after all and sundry but he failed badly that day and he should answer to his boss and be made accountable his job was to prevent disorder he failed
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Civvy at last |
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Whilst not deflecting from the actions of the Grimsby people involved, I hope those from Sheffield will be just as vigorously persued.
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Paris Mariner |
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The copper in charge of the sheff u game clearly didn't know the local area why did he let risk fans from both sides drink so closely together,why did sheff fans go unescorted along the sea wall ,after the game Cleethorpes station became a battlefield. I know the copper in question said he's going after all and sundry but he failed badly that day and he should answer to his boss and be made accountable his job was to prevent disorder he failed
This is the point entirely though isn't it? Why is there a small minority of football fans who can't drink close to someone donning the opposition's clobber? It's pathetic. The thing I like about going to away games and drinking in pubs in different places is, aside from the fact I might have discovered a decent boozer, mingling with the opposition's fans to get their take on own team, our fans, our shared division, their prospects, their memories, the view on England, on football, on life... whatever. Rather than blaming the police for letting people be in such terrible proximity to other human beings we should be writing appalled statements about how the local neanderthal continues to survive. Why to their feel the need to tarnish the name of our football clubs, hometowns and counties in the name of the great game we all love?
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KingstonMariner |
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It's a difficult one this. I tend to agree with you Paris, but at the same time there are buckle draggers who get in the way of that sometimes. Which does go to show that it good intelligence is necessary to good policing in a democracy (I think we still are?).
I think we need the following: (1) an officer with good local knowledge - people and places (home side) (2) an officer with knowledge of the away team - people (3) SLOs (!) (4) discussion between all of the above in advance (5) low-key patrolling of pubs, stations etc in the build up and after the game to gauge the temperature, chat to people, treat them as law-abiding citizens rather than provoking antagonism (6) a back up, mobile group ready to move to potential flash points and pounce if necessary. (7) Remember innocent until proven guilty, and allow people to choose the routes to and from the game.
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Civvy at last |
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This is the point entirely though isn't it? Why is there a small minority of football fans who can't drink close to someone donning the opposition's clobber? It's pathetic. The thing I like about going to away games and drinking in pubs in different places is, aside from the fact I might have discovered a decent boozer, mingling with the opposition's fans to get their take on own team, our fans, our shared division, their prospects, their memories, the view on England, on football, on life... whatever.
Rather than blaming the police for letting people be in such terrible proximity to other human beings we should be writing appalled statements about how the local neanderthal continues to survive. Why to their feel the need to tarnish the name of our football clubs, hometowns and counties in the name of the great game we all love?
Unfortunately, that isn't the point entirely. I absolutely agree that we should be able to drink in each others pubs, swap info and mingle with opposition fans in a relaxed atmosphere. That was probably the best thing about being non league I can't think though, that any sane person would try to blame the police for the trouble both before and after the match. It would be an ideal world where no police force is required. But the fact is that they are required. So although they are not directly responsible for the trouble, they are responsible (IMO) for not correctly doing the job they are paid to do. I was fortunate enough not to witness any of the trouble so I can't comment on the bobby on the street. But I do feel that those in charge do have to be seen to be responsible for the fact that they got it wrong. You didn't have to be associated with hooliganism to know that there would be large groups of 'at risk' fans from either side wandering around Cleethorpes from 10AM onwards Cleethorpes isn't exactly London and with the amount of Police available I do believe that deployed correctly there would have been a lot less trouble than there was. I think the reason that the main complaint seems to be about the police as opposed to the hooligans is that (unfortunately) the hooligans approach to the day was expected. The police getting it wrong was not. Basically, The Police where not to blame for the violence occurring, but they were to blame in failing to minimise/control it.
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| The wife was going away for a girly weekend. I jokingly remarked 'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football' 'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked She said 'Well you already know how to play football' |
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diehardmariner |
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It's a difficult one this. I tend to agree with you Paris, but at the same time there are buckle draggers who get in the way of that sometimes. Which does go to show that it good intelligence is necessary to good policing in a democracy (I think we still are?).
I think we need the following: (1) an officer with good local knowledge - people and places (home side) (2) an officer with knowledge of the away team - people (3) SLOs (!) (4) discussion between all of the above in advance (5) low-key patrolling of pubs, stations etc in the build up and after the game to gauge the temperature, chat to people, treat them as law-abiding citizens rather than provoking antagonism (6) a back up, mobile group ready to move to potential flash points and pounce if necessary. (7) Remember innocent until proven guilty, and allow people to choose the routes to and from the game.
( 8 ) A big intercourse off water cannon for those who play up.
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grimps |
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It seems strange how our FIO has taken a wage after five years in non league then gets the boot as soon as we're back. I witnessed some of the trouble in Cleethorpes before the game and most of what I could see on the high street was caused by Sheff United fans , they was the aggressors from what I saw and seemed to be down most of Grimsby road. Knowing Our police force though they'll take the easy option of only arresting Town fans.
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grimslaa |
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Unfortunately, that isn't the point entirely. I absolutely agree that we should be able to drink in each others pubs, swap info and mingle with opposition fans in a relaxed atmosphere. That was probably the best thing about being non league I can't think though, that any sane person would try to blame the police for the trouble both before and after the match. It would be an ideal world where no police force is required. But the fact is that they are required. So although they are not directly responsible for the trouble, they are responsible (IMO) for not correctly doing the job they are paid to do. I was fortunate enough not to witness any of the trouble so I can't comment on the bobby on the street. But I do feel that those in charge do have to be seen to be responsible for the fact that they got it wrong. You didn't have to be associated with hooliganism to know that there would be large groups of 'at risk' fans from either side wandering around Cleethorpes from 10AM onwards Cleethorpes isn't exactly London and with the amount of Police available I do believe that deployed correctly there would have been a lot less trouble than there was. I think the reason that the main complaint seems to be about the police as opposed to the hooligans is that (unfortunately) the hooligans approach to the day was expected. The police getting it wrong was not. Basically, The Police where not to blame for the violence occurring, but they were to blame in failing to minimise/control it.
It's a bit of both though really isn't it? Almost a bit like the age old chicken/egg question. Yes, the police did not act in the way that we may have expected. But if football games didn't attract groups of people who deem it necessary to show support for their teams by causing trouble, damage to property and fighting each other then the idea of the police being at fault wouldn't be an issue. However that is unfortunately the case, and as KingstonMariner has pointed out surely the key attribute to any FIO working at/with a club is local knowledge in terms of geography and likely "risk" individuals. Although you'd imagine that keeping a closer eye on the boozers in Cleethorpes and the routes to and from the ground wouldn't take somebody with local knowledge to figure out!
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