some will say its only pre season

Another pre season match that we hear not overly worried about the result , i might agree but this new formation paul has gone with which we haven't in the slightest picked up yet has me more concerned.

We look totally clueless with it and yes its pre season but its not the beginning we are 2 weeks out until the start of the season.

We got to get our act together and sharpish and before i get accused of having a go im not what im saying is we dont look ready as a team going into the football league regardless of pre season or not.

I do agree johnny, i thought yesterday the system just did not work, but with only 2 strikers i guess whats the alternative, unless he goes 3 up top with 2 wingers as forwards

Its Hursty, they dont call him Mr Tinkerman for nothing.  Once we went to 442, I saw the improvement in the players.  Once we get a goalscorer, we should do better

What i would say is weve lost our identity a bit, with all the changes and that it has distrupted us and it will take tine to gel. We need a big strong target man in my opinion that can hold the ball up well and bring others into play. We will click eventually i wouldnt play just one striker up front though leaves them too isolated.

Surely after 6 Years in none league it's now time to enjoy a season.

We no longer need to get 90 points. 50 will keep us up and 75 will get us in the play offs.

I really hope the fans are patient with this team, it may take time but there's no pressure to be at the top.

Instead of worrying about performances in July, let's just enjoy the ride and support our team

It is only pre-season. 13 new players. Enough said. WE WILL BE FINE. DONT PANIC!

Hear hear Tony. We all want Town to do well and win every game but the pressure is off now.  Pre-season is the time to experiment but he priority is fitness. The challenge we had yesterday was tough but we will gain a lot from it.

Exactly! I would rather he experiment now and get it wrong then in the season. We will learn more than this pre-season than one if we won all the games! get the losses out the way now  

Yes I will say it only pre season against a very well organised team from a league above us some of their players have played together for years we are new team, time is needed confidence needs to be built but I think I saw enough yesterday to be optimistic that we will hold our own

We have learned one thing already - we will struggle to score goals unless another Amond or Connell appears pretty soon.

Not scoring goals....have looked all over the place at the back....a recipe for disaster.

Toto's strength and pace has not been adequately replaced and neither have Podge's goals

Defence are playing deeper...so are the midfield...isolating the loan striker....
With the likes of Tombola,Brown and Jackson i think we have players who can make the system work but i doubt hurst will start two of
them and Bogle and play
offensively .... he has already been accommodating Berrett
in a wide position....

Stick sunmerfield up top, seems to like scoring😂

I'm definitely a little worried about how pedestrian and weak we are in the middle of the park, but that is something I expect Hurst to sort swiftly as his teams have always been at the very least competitive. The midfield have left the back 4 seriously exposed. The team haven't settled into the system yet, but we have signed he players to play that way and it can be a really exciting way to play.
It is preseason and I expect more effort and more fire in the tackles as we come to the real stuff. We still need a few players before the big kick off, another central striker would be a priority for me.
This season is different as all the teams will be stuck with the players they sign until January with no additions, this means good coaching and getting the best out of players is key.

Quoted from moosey_club

Not scoring goals....have looked all over the place at the back....a recipe for disaster.

Toto's strength and pace has not been adequately replaced and neither have Podge's goals

Defence are playing deeper...so are the midfield...isolating the loan striker....
With the likes of Tombola,Brown and Jackson i think we have players who can make the system work but i doubt hurst will start two of
them and Bogle and play
offensively .... he has already been accommodating Berrett
in a wide position....

I think you are right about Podge and Toto, and I've had the same thoughts generally. The presence of the old 'square pegs' tactics is disappointing.I don't think the overall situation looks overly encouraging on that basis. I would add that Chambers looks to have been signed about 3 seasons too late. He's not as good as Arnold and has an awful lot to prove. Don't think he's really done much to make us think he can be a force even in games against lower placed opposition. And, even though we've got about 6 centre midfielders, have we actually got the player we were all calling out for - a driving force; someone who can dictate play and is mobile enough to get from box to box and score goals? I'd say the two players signed from York have also got a lot to prove this season.

Hard to know how good the overall standard will be in L2 and I'm hopeful we can stay out of trouble, but for me we are still perhaps 4 quality players short of a more convincing team.

I have not been to any pre season games but will be going next Saturday versus Oldham. So to summerise what I am reading is that despite the results PH is using these games to identify his best formation, who's match fit, which players work well together and how he might start versus Morecombe .which is exactly what he should be doing. Sometimes it has worked sometimes it has not.

I think as ever we will possibly have a slow start like we did in 14/15 when he signed Brown, McKreth, Toto, Magnay, Clay etc... and we did not win until the 4th game. I would not want to wait for the 4th game for 3 points but recognise we need to manage the expectation a bit at least during August.

Clearly we still need a couple of additions and that no doubt will come but July 23rd is not the time to get too worried, I am sure there wll be some high spots and some lows in the next 8 months but I am 110% convinced we will be o.k. come the end of the season. "o.k." for me is finishing anywhere between 15th and 10th and getting to the 3rd round of the FA cup, sounds like a lack of ambition I know but over the last few years I would have gladly taken that every time.    
    

Pre-season 15/16: P10 W10



First 10 games of 15/16 season: P10 W4 D4 L2

I don't think the results are what people are reflecting on mate. I think they are looking at shape, players, recurring themes etc.

I know that. I'm just saying that people shouldn't look at pre-season as to how the season will pan out. Heck, there's 7 new guaranteed new starters when the season starts. Was that situation avoidable by Hurst? Yes. But it was painfully obvious that the new needed an overhaul. Last season, as a team, we were painfully slow and relied a lot on a single tactic.

I'd also argue that had Gowling, Pearson and Mckeown not been so terrible yesterday, the game would've been a lot tighter and people would have looked at it differently. I'm yet to see Dan Jones play, so I'd like to see what adding some pace to centre half brings.

Yep fair enough mate.

I do actually think that the 4-5-1 variation can be a useful tactic for us in certain away games next season, but think we are in need of an improvement at centre back and centre mid in order to make it pay for us. Have we looked difficult to break down in any of the pre season games?

I personally believe Hurst wants to go for the 4-3-3 formation that worked so well towards the end of the season. I know he has tried different formations etc throughout the pre-season but it is a good time to test and try.

I would expect 4-3-3 with a holding player, a hard worker and a ball player as the 3 in the middle. Bogle, Jackson and Bolawinra as the front 3. I believe this would allow us to play with width, pace and excitement.

Hopefully we will put in a good performance on Wednesday against Gainsborough before topping it off with a convincing display against Oldham before the curtain raiser.

Quoted from chaos33

Yep fair enough mate.

I do actually think that the 4-5-1 variation can be a useful tactic for us in certain away games next season, but think we are in need of an improvement at centre back and centre mid in order to make it pay for us. Have we looked difficult to break down in any of the pre season games?

If the back 4 is so dodgy without Toto I'd have thought he would have tried at least one full game with 3 centre backs in a  3-5-2. Gowling's lack of pace and Pearson's number 4 bus turning circle would at least have a bit more cover then. Looking at the other experiments I'm surprised he hasn't given this a proper try against decent opposition.

Quoted from Grantley

I know that. I'm just saying that people shouldn't look at pre-season as to how the season will pan out. Heck, there's 7 new guaranteed new starters when the season starts. Was that situation avoidable by Hurst? Yes. But it was painfully obvious that the new needed an overhaul. Last season, as a team, we were painfully slow and relied a lot on a single tactic.

I'd also argue that had Gowling, Pearson and Mckeown not been so terrible yesterday, the game would've been a lot tighter and people would have looked at it differently. I'm yet to see Dan Jones play, so I'd like to see what adding some pace to centre half brings.

Thought Pearson played well and swapped with Gowling in order to match their big lad up front who was bullying Gowling, Two mistakes that are not normal in our defence by Gowling and Macca were the difference between them winning 3-1 and a 1-1 draw.
TBF they were better than us possibly because they played more as a unit,  as you do with playing together longer and are use to each others moves etc.
We all know we need a target man who can hold the ball up, ala the Lump, and we will get one sooner than later, this season unlike last season teams will be more skillful and untill we have a settled team we are not going to have it all our own way.
Maybe just a few changes to many at the end of the season hasn`t helped with the team spirit we had last season,  and I`m sure it will be re kindled again this time around soon.
In my opinion we have brought in some good players this season that are yet to perform as a team, plenty of time yet remember as the thread title says its only pre season

The way our defence has looked in pearson gowling and boyce as the centre backs theres not much pace there now toto has done one either.

I like the sound of a 433 better than the 4321 , we have players better equipped for that so i hope starting gainsborough we have a look at that , bolawinra has been our best player imo and he joined half way through..

I really like the look of..

Macca
andrew
gowling
boyce
davies
mcallister
disley
vose
browne
bolawinra
bogle/jackson take your pick.

Our players are much more suited to that and i hope he abandons this 4231.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

The way our defence has looked in pearson gowling and boyce as the centre backs theres not much pace there now toto has done one either.

I like the sound of a 433 better than the 4321 , we have players better equipped for that so i hope starting gainsborough we have a look at that , bolawinra has been our best player imo and he joined half way through..

I really like the look of..

Macca
andrew
gowling
boyce
davies
mcallister
disley
vose
browne
bolawinra
bogle/jackson take your pick.

Our players are much more suited to that and i hope he abandons this 4231.

That's nearly a 4-2-4. Vose, Browne and Tombola don't look capable of defending to me - that's why he'll play Mcalister and Summerfield.

Quoted from zorro_is_a_Mariner

it will take tine to gel.

FFS it doesn't matter how long they have to gel (two weeks in reality) if the correct recipe isn't there gelling (into a good side) just ain't gonna happen.

We have no goalscorers and I don't believe for a moment that Hurst has anyone in his sights - it is OK to criticise him again now isn't it after all its weeks since we beat Forest Green and he got his own back publicly after the game. If he thinks he's going to go through this season on the strength of last he is mistaken. I'm not convinced he did enough to keep Amond and it may well cost us dearly.

Bolarinwa has looked a threat though. Much more so than Chambers. Hope he gets game time, and that Hurst is prepared to be aggressive and attack minded when appropriate, which must be for most if not all home games. Nothing to fear!

To be fair it has been a big change in players, we do look to have more technical footballers, more pace, but we seem to have lost a bit of edge.
They may well really click as we go into the season, a few of them still look a little unfit.
One big positive is some genius in the upper has come up with a song for Bolarinwa to the tune of La Bamba, hope it takes off.

Ok so theres gelling thats still needed understandable considering the number of players thats join.  They soon get used to each other.   So I've heard a lot of negative but there must surely be some positives too.  Like Tom B.....i like the look of him, and Summerfield.....at last someone who can shoot from distance......cant remember the last time we had a midfielder that did that.  We have quite a bit of pace in the team as well as some intelligent players and im sure it'll all come good come the first game of the season.  PH still has a couple more players to bring in.....one must be a target man.

It's a bit unrealistic to expect much cohesion from the players at the present time.

Hurst can't possibly know what his best XI is from the squad he's got, and presumably there's still a couple more to come in.

I doubt we'll see the best of this squad until at least ten games into the season.

One prediction I will make - we're going to miss Toto.

New league, lots of new players, possibly a new playing system, so i think we need to give it a dozen games or more to develop and see where we are. Hurst has never managed at this level but he has (eventually) managed to get all his teams to the right end of the league and has got them all out of their respective leagues in the right direction. I think he seems the type to take the long term view of squad building and doesn't go for the quick fix.

The pre season friendlies last year were by a squad that had been built over time with tweaks along the way and we now have an almost entirely new squad, which will take a while for Hurst and Doig to get their ideas over to. I expect we will be signing another striker or two yet and possibly one or two others. A lot of us have doubted Hurst in the past and he proved us wrong, so i'm going into the season with an open mind.

Remember Slade had done really well at non league level and found his first season in the league with us a challenge. We played great football and didn't get the results, so he changed tack and went more direct, which brought about a big improvement in results, if not in playing style. Think we need to give Hurst and the squad time to find their feet.

It would appear that one thing PH has done is brought in some pace which if he has to plat one up front (which I personally don't like) will make a real difference.

I haven't seen any pre season games so only commenting based on reports and just back threads. Someone earlier said if you cant keep a clean sheet and struggle to score you're in trouble so I'm slightly concerned. Having said that my only aspiration this year is to stay up. After 6 years in the conference we cannot under any circumstances go back, and if we aren't in a relegation battle that will be bonus. After that I trust PH to build a promotion side in the next two years.
Another concern is that three of our potential starting eleven were relegated out of this league by a mile last year so I hope they have mental strength.
I'm sure PH will get it right but we'll need patience this year. Remember none of the teams promoted from the conference have gone straight through league two for a while so it has to be a stronger league than when we left it

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

We have learned one thing already - we will struggle to score goals unless another[/b] Amond or Connell[b] appears pretty soon.

Neither of them had good scoring records in the league, only had a good season in the tin pot league.

We be lucky to find a striker that going to score 30+ goals in league 2, a really good return in league 2 would be around the 17-25.

Last season's leading goalscorer was Matty Taylor with 27 and only 3 other players broke the 20 goal barrier Jay Simpson 25, John Akinde 23 & Lyle Taylor 22 the next best 18 goals with 20 players scoring between 11-17 goals.

So we need a couple of the strikers to be scoring in the region of 15 goals each, provided our defence does not leak too many goals.

Quoted from buckstown

I haven't seen any pre season games so only commenting based on reports and just back threads. Someone earlier said if you cant keep a clean sheet and struggle to score you're in trouble so I'm slightly concerned. Having said that my only aspiration this year is to stay up. After 6 years in the conference we cannot under any circumstances go back, and if we aren't in a relegation battle that will be bonus. After that I trust PH to build a promotion side in the next two years.
Another concern is that three of our potential starting eleven were relegated out of this league by a mile last year so I hope they have mental strength.
I'm sure PH will get it right but we'll need patience this year. [/b]Remember none of the teams promoted from the conference have gone straight through league two for a while[b] so it has to be a stronger league than when we left it

Bristol Rovers last season....cough cough

God it's kicking in already. Can I get away with hardly any teams go straight through??

Quoted from tintowner

Bristol Rovers last season....cough cough

and we got stuffed 5-1 ,home to Swansea saturday.... and like a lot of the fans on here its like are we good enough !!! IT IS A FRIENDLY after all.. any way GOOD LUCK to you guys in the coming season

Yesterday was my first chance to look at the team in pre-season and, despite the result, I was fairly encouraged with what I saw, particularly against a side who were always going to be right up for the game following the dressing down they got from their manager for losing to Halifax in the week.

I share the concern about being light up front at the moment, but I thought the link-up between Bogle and Jackson showed potential. Greater physical presence is needed, but that also has to be balanced against the threat that the pace and movement that they and, from what I've heard, Bolarinwa in particular can pose to opposition defenders. At this stage, I'm not too concerned about our back line, despite the errors of yesterday. Any side that has Billy Sharp in it will always carry an attacking threat after all.

For me, like Buckstown, the first priority is safety from relegation and anything after that is a bonus. The fact Hurst is undertaking such a dramatic revamp of the team means things will take time to gel. But it also suggests to me that he won't be satisfied with just surviving.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

It would appear that one thing PH has done is brought in some pace which if he has to plat one up front (which I personally don't like) will make a real difference.

Playing one person up front who apparently is one of the fastest players in the league provided diddly squat in the 1st half.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Playing one person up front who apparently is one of the fastest players in the league provided diddly squat in the 1st half.

Yes because none of the midfield players got up top or into the area to support him. Also we were not able to play any natural wingers to provide more attacking options.

Quoted from oldun

Yes because none of the midfield players got up top or into the area to support him. Also we were not able to play any natural wingers to provide more attacking options.

This sounds a bit presumptive this early in the grand plan but if Bolarinwar had have been fit he would have supported Jackson,  and we would have been more of a threat.

I think in Boiarinwar and Jackson along with Bogle we are a threat to any team, its just what system do you play to incorporate all three.

Quoted from oldun

Yes because none of the midfield players got up top or into the area to support him. Also we were not able to play any natural wingers to provide more attacking options.

Whilst I would agree in part to your comment, the midfielders couldn't do much to the long balls lumped up to the poor lad who may be fast but doesn't look like he is strong enough to hold the ball up.

The loss of Toto's pace will be difficult to replace, but I'm surprised anybody is claiming Gowling is somehow slow? He's always been quite quick for a centre-half and his poor game on Saturday was just down to errors and not a lack of pace. I'm more concerned that Davies looked a bit leaden-footed and he's not going to be getting any quicker. He looks physically powerful, but I hope his positioning is up to the job or pacy players might find it easy to get in down the side. Andrew looked useful to me - quick, good in the air and with a nice, long throw.

That said, their tall No. 14 who scored their first goal caused both Gowling and Pearson all sorts of problems in the air and on the ground during the first half and his movement and hassling of the defence created all sorts of space for Sharp who just had too much quality for us. That sort of tall and athletic player is just the sort we need for our 'Plan B' this season but, if we can't get somebody big and quick, we at least need somebody big. Bogle just isn't capable of holding off strong defenders and isn't great at playing with his back to goal either. He needs to be facing the goal when he receives the ball.

As for the midfield, I'm hoping McAllister will work well as the holding player - Sheffield United's No. 4 was just better than him on Saturday but hopefully he won't encounter too many opponents as capable so will be able to be effective. Both Berret and Summerfield look to have some ability and a decent touch, but I don't think either is strong enough defensively to play together.

Hopefully, with a bit more time training together, we'll see the midfield become a bit more of a cohesive unit and we could certainly do with seeing a striker or two joining us before the season. Jackson a willing runner and hard worker, but we can't just whack it long for him unless there is space for him to run into.

I didn't actually think Chambers did too badly - hard-working and one or two decent passes but not much different than an average Arnold performance from last season. Obviously, Arnold on his day looks a better player, but those days didn't come too often. At least with Bolarinwa and Browne in the squad we have options on the wing this season.

Strikers soon, please Hursty!

Quoted from arryarryarry

Whilst I would agree in part to your comment, the midfielders couldn't do much to the long balls lumped up to the poor lad who may be fast but doesn't look like he is strong enough to hold the ball up.

True, but when he did have the ball he was isolated. Same happens to some extent when Bogle is on his own, although he is able to hold it up a bit better to give others the time to get there. Also I guess the midfielders had more defensive/ball winning work to do on Sat because of the opposition.
If we go 5 across the middle then 2 of them have to be wingers and they were not available on Sat. Another option, especially at home is to go 433 with Bogle, Jackson and Bolawinra in forward positions. We have to trust The Management to sort this out and get the players to adapt.

haven''t seen them yet so can',t give my opinion but what you say makes footballing sense. I'm just waiting for some encouragement before the season starts.

Quoted from Maringer

Bogle just isn't capable of holding off strong defenders and isn't great at playing with his back to goal either. He needs to be facing the goal when he receives the ball.

That is inaccurate. His strength is receiving the ball to feet with his back to goal. At the start of last season I lost count of the number of times he would receive the ball to feet with his back to goal. Turn the defender and set up a chance for himself or someone else. Later in the season as we started to hit the ball longer and longer he had less opportunities to do this.

The problem he has at the moment is the support around him, when he receives the ball he tends to be isolated. He  does need to learn how to hold the ball up better bring others into play without trying to do it all to him. Hitting long balls to him is also useless and I hope Hurst learned this lesson last season. I believe he can be developed to play the lone striker role quite well, he has most of the attributes, he needs to improve his aerial strength more though. as not every ball can be to feet.

We definitely need another striker. Something a bit different. Tom Pope would be ideal but perhaps a bit out of our reach?

Quoted from MarinerMal

That is inaccurate. His strength is receiving the ball to feet with his back to goal. At the start of last season I lost count of the number of times he would receive the ball to feet with his back to goal. Turn the defender and set up a chance for himself or someone else. Later in the season as we started to hit the ball longer and longer he had less opportunities to do this.

The problem he has at the moment is the support around him, when he receives the ball he tends to be isolated. He  does need to learn how to hold the ball up better bring others into play without trying to do it all to him. Hitting long balls to him is also useless and I hope Hurst learned this lesson last season. I believe he can be developed to play the lone striker role quite well, he has most of the attributes, he needs to improve his aerial strength more though. as not every ball can be to feet.

Unfortunately, I'm not convinced by the view he's good at receiving the ball into his feet. Just doesn't quite seem to have the touch to bring it under control when under pressure. On first viewing on Saturday, he did look to be a little bulkier than last season, so perhaps he'll have a bit more strength to help him in this (not that he was ever a weakling!), but it certainly isn't his forte.

Regardless, the question remains if we're going to be good enough at passing to play into the feet of the forwards at the moment. If not, the acquisition of a more physical presence up front becomes even more important.

I agree the pre- season is primarily about fitness and trying out tactics/formations. Results are not the be all and end all. Though winning more often than not is nice and builds up morale /confidence.

But what you want to see as you progress through pre-season is to see performances improve and see some chemistry developing  and ideally some positive results. Getting better game by game so you peak when the league action starts.

So far i have not seen this . Performances have been a bit disjointed and the lack of attacking options is becoming glaringly obvious. We have bought some potentially exciting players in Bolarinwa, Jackson, Browne, Vose, Chambers but none as well as Bogle have a proven record at this level. That does concern me. We need another 2 forwards who have experience of league football. Be them target men type strikers or a fox in the box type. Either way a proven record of being able to find the back of the net is a must. I fear a lack of goals could be our undoing.

I am not saying its panic time at all but we now have only 2 friendlies left to figure it all out. Because after that the real stuff begins and points are stake. Not time to be tinkering with line ups/tactics/formations etc and trying to figure out how to win games. Just saying.

Good post mate, I agree.

I have yet to see us play but I am not concerned with the results,

We won all pre season games last season,

Then started the league very slowly,

This season we have been beaten 3 times already,

So I am sure we will start the league season on fire.

Anybody going to Gainsborough..I am with Perkins....Only for the Lincolnshire Sausage Hot Dog though  

It's only pre-season

Yeah it's only pre season the real Lincolnshire Sausage hot dog is is different when the season starts.

Quoted from barrattstandman

Yeah it's only pre season the real Lincolnshire Sausage hot dog is is different when the season starts.

Will the sausage have had time to gel?

Here we go.................

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Here we go.................

Your not going are you Johnnyboy?

The sausages might be too big for you