labour council unable to make a decision shock!

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.....y.html#ixzz3rkRF5hp9

Shame it's not a tory council as they could have been bribed into approving it

Once again the Labour council are playing politics with our football clubs future , they hate the fact that Fenty is a Tory , they hate the fact that he's a self made successful businessman while many of them have never had a real job in their lives.
Once again they're prepared to do this club and its fans in because of personal envy and bitterness

Just found this:

http://www.nelincs.gov.uk/committees/FunctionsPage.aspx?dsid=150004&action=GetFileFromDB

It's the report that was commissioned to identify the best sites for a new stadium. I think they found 16 sites and have shortlisted 6 of them (including Freeman Street). I've not finished reading it yet but have a look.



well that's good news

Quoted from grimps

Once again the Labour council are playing politics with our football clubs future , they hate the fact that Fenty is a Tory , they hate the fact that he's a self made successful businessman while many of them have never had a real job in their lives.
Once again they're prepared to do this club and its fans in because of personal envy and bitterness

Yeah, it's all the fault of the Labour Party going back 20 odd years since a new ground was first mooted.

Interesting link!

To confirm, in alphabetical order, the 16 sites identified are as follows:
1. Blundell Park;
2. Bradley Road;
3. B&Q on A16;
4. Dockside (Garth Lane);
5. Europarc;
6. Fish Docks;
7. Freeman Street;
8. Great Coates;
9. Grimsby Golf Centre (Cromwell Road);
10. King George V athletic stadium;
11. Ladysmith Road;
12. Millennium Park, Macaulay Lane;
13. Morrison’s Dual By-Pass;
14. Peaks Parkway;
15. Tioxide site;
16. Western School;



Ranking   Site                                               Scor
1               Dockside (Garth Lane)                 32
2               Europarc                                       32
3               Peaks Parkway                             31
4               Morrisons Dual By-Pass               30
5               Great Coates                                30
6               King George V Athletic Stadium   30
7               Millenium Park, Macauley Lane    29
8               Ladysmith Road                            29
9               B&Q on A16                                  29
10             Western Tech School                   29
11             Bradley Road                                27
12             Fish Docks                                    26
13             Blundell Park                                25
14             Freeman Street                             24
15             Tioxide Site                                   24
16             Grimsby Golf Centre                     24

As such, the following four sites are being recommended
for further analysis by the Club and NELC:
• Europarc (dependent upon increasing land available);
• Peaks Parkway;
• Morrisons Dual By-Pass; and
• Great Coates.

a nice map:

Please not the Europarc. It will end up as one of those soulless identikit out of town stadia for sure.

The more I read about this relocation the less I like it!

There doesn't seem to be a suitable site and the money required is eye watering.

Quoted from ginnywings

Please not the Europarc. It will end up as one of those soulless identikit out of town stadia for sure.

+1

Of all the options the land near the Heritage Centre would be my preferred option. It's in town, great public transport links and not in a field in the middle of nowhere. Seems an unlikely option though reading the report.

I'm probably going to go against the flow here but I still think our main priority is to get back in to the league..

Would it bother me if we're still at BP in say 10 years time but playing against the likes of Chesterfield, Huddersfield, Mansfield etc.?

Not in the slightest...I'm sure the attraction of watching Town won't diminish just because our ground is dilapidated.

I'm not saying that the "dream" of relocating can't still be looked at but for me it's not the be-all and end-all of GTFC...what matters most imho is what we achieve on the pitch

Onwards and upwards

UTM GTID

Quoted from psgmariner

The more I read about this relocation the less I like it!

There doesn't seem to be a suitable site and the money required is eye watering.

Agreed and i'd love to stay at BP but the club is just not financially viable there according to the board. I'd rather have a club to support in a new ground than lose it altogether. It will be a massive wrench to leave BP, if we ever get that far.

Quoted from ginnywings

Agreed and i'd love to stay at BP but the club is just not financially viable there according to the board. I'd rather have a club to support in a new ground than lose it altogether. It will be a massive wrench to leave BP, if we ever get that far.

I know the argument but I remain sceptical about the motivation for moving and also the proposed benefits.

We will be selling our only really asset and then renting a new stadium from someone else from what I have read. The new stadium will not done be built in the best interests of the club alone as they will not be the one paying for it.

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

I'm probably going to go against the flow here but I still think our main priority is to get back in to the league..

Would it bother me if we're still at BP in say 10 years time but playing against the likes of Chesterfield, Huddersfield, Mansfield etc.?

Not in the slightest...I'm sure the attraction of watching Town won't diminish just because our ground is dilapidated.

I'm not saying that the "dream" of relocating can't still be looked at but for me it's not the be-all and end-all of GTFC...what matters most imho is what we achieve on the pitch

Onwards and upwards

UTM GTID

I fully agree with your comments and imagine that most fans would prioritise on the field success over a new stadium but one fan that probably wouldn't is JF. He might say if we don't make the move, we definitely won't be playing Chesterfield, Huddersfield, Mansfield etc in then years time.

Quoted from ivanosandwich

I fully agree with your comments and imagine that most fans would prioritise on the field success over a new stadium but one fan that probably wouldn't is JF. He might say if we don't make the move, we definitely won't be playing Chesterfield, Huddersfield, Mansfield etc in then years time.

And, the inescapable (but possibly for many inconvenient) fact is that he is right. We've seen the club post another loss albeit significantly down on last years due to Wembley etc. Such a position cannot continue indefinitely on the basis of one mans money continuing to prop up the club. When people glibly talk about cutting our cloth more appropriately they need to understand what that means in the context of modern football finance. It is my opinion that it would mean a final goodbye to hopes of getting out of this league if by some unfortunate occurence we weren't successful this season.  There also has to some understanding of the need for a facility that earns GTFC money seven days a week-not only on match days and the odd occasion when someone wants to hold a function at McMenemy's. Far too much time has been wasted already. I've seen no end of references on here over time to Paul Hurst's alleged lack of a "Plan B". To throw all of our hopes into getting back into the Football League on the promise that to do so would supposedly see our reliance on John Fenty suddenly evaporate would be supreme folly. I'd be very interested (perhaps Chaos can help?) in how and why York came to the conclusion that Bootham Crescent with its city centre situation wasn't the way forward for them...

Quoted from Southwark Mariner

a nice map:

I'm still disappointed that they haven't included a Fenty Island option just offshore. We could be the first team to play in the middle of the North Sea.  

On a more serious note, I reckon the Peaks Parkway site is clearly the best choice for transport links as well as being pretty much central between the population in Grimsby, Cleethorpes, Waltham, Humberston etc.

Failing that, the Fish Docks site would keep the fishing heritage part of things going but transports links wouldn't be much good. Freeman Street a complete non-starter, I'd have thought. Just imagine how much it would cost to clear the site, not to mention you'd need compulsory purchase orders for no end of properties.

I fear the Europarc site will be popular with the council even though it is miles away from most of the fans with little chance of anybody being able to walk to games.

Quoted from barralad

I'd be very interested (perhaps Chaos can help?) in how and why York came to the conclusion that Bootham Crescent with its city centre situation wasn't the way forward for them...

I think Bootham Crescent was sold to housing developers as land in the centre of York is VERY expensive. Their motivation was to cash in on the land they were sat on.

Quoted from grimps

Once again the Labour council are playing politics with our football clubs future , they hate the fact that Fenty is a Tory , they hate the fact that he's a self made successful businessman while many of them have never had a real job in their lives.
Once again they're prepared to do this club and its fans in because of personal envy and bitterness

Have you even bothered to read the article?

There are several councillors from across the political spectrum who are season ticket holders at B.P. and who are fully supportive of the need/plans for a new stadium. The decision of the sighting of the new stadium will be one of the most important decisions made by the council in memory. There are huge decisions around infra-structure etc. to be considered.  If you think that over such a decision the council splits on party lines you are massively out of touch. The council (probably quite rightly) had its knuckles rapped over the decision to close Scartho Baths etc. They are hardly likely to want to make the same mistakes.

Having said all of that I do wish they would get to the decision as quickly as possible-Far too much time has passed already

Quoted from psgmariner

I think Bootham Crescent was sold to housing developers as land in the centre of York is VERY expensive. Their motivation was to cash in on the land they were sat on.

But surely that only gives them an advantage in their relocation plans because they have more money to put into any relocation project?  Bootham Crescent is a very poor ground facility wise. I guess it is a bit chicken and egg. Did they decide to move to cash in their asset or did they think "We need to relocate how best can that be achieved?"

Quoted from psgmariner

Ranking   Site                                               Scor
1               Dockside (Garth Lane)                 32
2               Europarc                                       32
3               Peaks Parkway                             31
4               Morrisons Dual By-Pass               30
5               Great Coates                                30
6               King George V Athletic Stadium   30
7               Millenium Park, Macauley Lane    29
8               Ladysmith Road                            29
9               B&Q on A16                                  29
10             Western Tech School                   29
11             Bradley Road                                27
12             Fish Docks                                    26
13             Blundell Park                                25
14             Freeman Street                             24
15             Tioxide Site                                   24
16             Grimsby Golf Centre                     24

As such, the following four sites are being recommended
for further analysis by the Club and NELC:
• Europarc (dependent upon increasing land available);
• Peaks Parkway;
• Morrisons Dual By-Pass; and
• Great Coates.

Added to the 4 recommended sites are:

- Freeman Street (due to its potential for significant regeneration of that area of the borough) and,
- Docks (to be retained for first stage feasibility due to its high score).

What happens if the Council shut down options to THEIR favourite site, with conditions could well be laid down for any support given, not GTFC's???

Is there any funding available to bid for, other than stadia development funds and whoever comes in as the commercial partners?

Just as a thought, would a major re-development of Freeman Street generate any public / EEC funding to include the building of the ground, linking out to local businesses, and using as many as four entry / exit routes as well as public transport around all sides of any developed football pitch?

Could the ground then hold any concerts, or other major events, that would bring in long term cash? - would that be feasible at any other of the venues on the council short listing?

Don't any of the local green energy partners want to come in and use the new ground (wherever) as a local advertisement for their services - a la Forest Green and eco energy?

Just make sure that the floodlights are on a very large UPS system !!

The major partner could be the sticking point for their logistical needs !

From what I understand in relation to the docks is that ABP are reluctant to sell the land due to its own plans for development opportunities or selling it at a premium.

Europarc is too remote to be viable as a community stadium due to poor transportation (no buses or trains) nearby and it is classed as industrial use. In addition the proximity of COMAH sites could be an issue.

Freeman street is the "council" favourate due to regeneration monies that the council could get and it is the pet project of a tory councillor hence the reason to keep it in despite it only being 14th best) However, the location means that only a stadium could be built and car parking could be restricted (the remit of the study was to have parking for 2000 cars and coaches)  Also transportation issues around the area could cause a problem (single carriageways already experiencing congestion at times during the day).

The problems with Great Coates are still there from previous feasibility studies which ruled it out before and you will have potential transport issues as nearly everyone will be travelling out to the area prior to the match and into the town after on a roads not designed for that flow (as a lot of people know every weekday travelling out and into Grimsby). It states in the report the site access is not suitable.

Peaks parkway is not the ideal location but it does offer a true community stadium with additonal community resources which are needed. Traffic is still a problem but the flow does have the opportunity to be in different directions (i.e. south of Grimsby for some and further into town there are a number of routes offered to split up the traffic). The report also rates the site access as "excellent potential" and good car and train (?!) access.

Just need a flipping decision from the council not delays!!!

What happened to Peaks Parkway?

Quoted from Neilo83

What happened to Peaks Parkway?

It is on the list...

The one of the main reasons great Coates dragged on so long was it's proximity to the number bank chemical works. How is moving it right next door on the europarc going to work?

Interesting to see that all the sites fall short of the acres required for the full development plan by the club. Even the golf course is short of the required amount. I wonder what "other sites" the club were thinking of regarding possible expansion opportunities for the Peaks Parkway site?

Of all the recommendations, I would love to have seen a stadium just off Freshney Place across the river. A town centre stadium would be awesome. Like a smaller version of the millenium stadium. The town centre would be buzzing before and after the games. However the site's too small and unviable for expansion.

In terms of regeneration then the dock area would be my next preference to give the whole place a face lift.

But having seen the plans, the most viable is indeed Peaks Parkway by the looks of it. Seems like the club have indeed done their homework!

Quoted from scrumble

The one of the main reasons great Coates dragged on so long was it's proximity to the number bank chemical works. How is moving it right next door on the europarc going to work?

I believe there was also an issue related to a level crossing near the Great Cotes site - Network Rail would require the club to foot the £3 million quid bill for upgrading it which obviously isn't feasible. It's a non-starter and i'll be disappointed (but ultimately unsurprised) if any councillors try and push it as a location. Europarc too since it's bloody miles away from everywhere.

In an ideal world where we had money to throw at the project the location between Freshney Place and the Heritage Centre would be fantastic, but given that we're reliant on a supermarket / housing as an enabling development it's a non-starter.

Quoted from barralad

And, the inescapable (but possibly for many inconvenient) fact is that he is right. We've seen the club post another loss albeit significantly down on last years due to Wembley etc. Such a position cannot continue indefinitely on the basis of one mans money continuing to prop up the club. When people glibly talk about cutting our cloth more appropriately they need to understand what that means in the context of modern football finance. It is my opinion that it would mean a final goodbye to hopes of getting out of this league if by some unfortunate occurence we weren't successful this season. There also has to some understanding of the need for a facility that earns GTFC money seven days a week-not only on match days and the odd occasion when someone wants to hold a function at McMenemy's. Far too much time has been wasted already. I've seen no end of references on here over time to Paul Hurst's alleged lack of a "Plan B". To throw all of our hopes into getting back into the Football League on the promise that to do so would supposedly see our reliance on John Fenty suddenly evaporate would be supreme folly. I'd be very interested (perhaps Chaos can help?) in how and why York came to the conclusion that Bootham Crescent with its city centre situation wasn't the way forward for them...

Has this been confirmed, will income from the stadium on non match days be used to fund GTFC considering we wont own the stadium?

Peaks parkway would be grid locked on match days especially Saturdays with Freshney place traffic and NO I don't live around here just stating a fact of how it is now.

Freemo could really be a winner if it was done properly.

The sad reality is that if we ever do get to the point of building a new ground it won't be in town. I'm nigh certain of that. To much objection (can't even call it NIMBYISM because of the total objection of our football club from some of our local residents).
I do wonder how much money we've thrown at our redevelopment plans over the years - I'm sure that is an eye watering amount.
Since moving away from Grimsby/Cleethorpes you do realise why our home town is in such a dire state. I love Grimsby to the absolute bottom of my heart but the reality is its stuck 25 years in the past. In my honest opinion, the best way of trying to get out of this rut is by sticking firm with renewable energy and getting a new multi use sports stadium. Admittedly that would only be the tip of the iceberg but it would be a start. However, too many people are happy to sit with the town as it is now and watch it fall further and further behind modern day England.
We'll see anyway, I'll put good money on the fact we will still be at BP in 10/15/20 years time.

Pretty ironic they have identified Garth Lane, fairly sure that back in the Great Coates days the council gave that site permision for retail development to ABP(?) which may have influenced potential retail partners at Great Coates pulling out.

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

Peaks parkway would be grid locked on match days especially Saturdays with Freshney place traffic and NO I don't live around here just stating a fact of how it is now.

Freemo could really be a winner if it was done properly.

I can't imagine how a Freeman Street site wouldn't be just as gridlocked if not more so than a Peaks Parkway site?

The problem is that we just don't have a two-lane circular sort of road in the way that many towns our size do. Everything has to pass through the middle of town and along single-lane roads to get anywhere. Note, this isn't a criticism of the council or road planning. It's just the way the town has built up over the years and there is no way it can be rectified as far as I can see because there is no free space between the Humber estuary and Grimsby/Cleethorpes. You could perhaps get around this to some degree with a Fish Docks site with roads running directly off the A180, but what would be the cost of that, I wonder?

I think a roundabout near the proposed Peaks Parkway site might be enough to alleviate some of the potential congestion problems, but not all of them. I think we're going to struggle, regardless of where any new site was located. If (heaven forbid) a Europarc/Pyewipe site was chosen, there will be outward bound congestion on match days as fans from Cleethorpes/Humberston etc would need to pass through Grimsby to get to the new site, followed by inward congestion as they left after the game.

No ideal locations available in the area. Other than Fenty Island, of course.  

What's wrong with the Morrisons option? I've no axe to grind but nobody has mentioned it have they? On the by-pass (albeit a by-pass with a ridiculous speed limit) and plenty of room. Only problem I can see with it is rail links.

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/

Seems freemo as become shortlisted Hmmm could really revamp that area up with new retail as well. The downside would be it could be the final nail in freshney place coffin after Ramsdens was recently given the green light to redevelop.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

What's wrong with the Morrisons option? I've no axe to grind but nobody has mentioned it have they? On the by-pass (albeit a by-pass with a ridiculous speed limit) and plenty of room. Only problem I can see with it is rail links.

Morrisons pies are delish. I'm in.

Just seems like more time and money wasted with precious little progress.

Seems like more smoke and mirrors to come to a similar conclusion to that which the club have already come to.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Has this been confirmed, will income from the stadium on non match days be used to fund GTFC considering we wont own the stadium?

As there are no concrete plans in place I'm not quite sure what needs to be confirmed. The club are on record as saying that Blundell Park doesn't offer them the seven day a week income that needs to form part of the modern funding of a professional football club and that the new stadium will need to address that. By the way I haven't seen anything in writing (apart from on here) to say that the club won't own the new stadium. I wasn't aware that we were at the stage where such decisions are made.

Quoted from barralad

As there are no concrete plans in place I'm not quite sure what needs to be confirmed. The club are on record as saying that Blundell Park doesn't offer them the seven day a week income that needs to form part of the modern funding of a professional football club and that the new stadium will need to address that. By the way I haven't seen anything in writing (apart from on here) to say that the club won't own the new stadium. I wasn't aware that we were at the stage where such decisions are made.

Colchester's community stadium is owned by the Borough Council and operated by the football club. The council borrowed over £10 million to build it with difference being made up by grants and other angel funding. I don't want to assume anything but if we are looking at a similar model then we will be renting off NELC I guess.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Colchester's community stadium is owned by the Borough Council and operated by the football club. The council borrowed over £10 million to build it with difference being made up by grants and other angel funding. I don't want to assume anything but if we are looking at a similar model then we will be renting off NELC I guess.

The likelihood is that there would be a separate management company in charge of the actual administration of the stadium. In the York model, from memory, I think that company is basically the football club plus some extra posts.

Here we go again but I have always said since the announcement that the flats will be coming down is where the stadium will be placed and I bet it will be called the shoreline stadium ( they will possibly even borrow the plans of the keepmoat ) so I see this as stalling tactics until the site is cleared

Quoted from crusty ole pie

Here we go again but I have always said since the announcement that the flats will be coming down is where the stadium will be placed and I bet it will be called the shoreline stadium ( they will possibly even borrow the plans of the keepmoat ) so I see this as stalling tactics until the site is cleared

I don't think they are coming down now though. I think the prohibitive cost has put Shoreline off the idea. That's what I heard from a Shoreline employee unless they have changed their mind again.

I think looking at that map that was posted is one of the most useful pieces of information.

I think as well as the location you have to look at the size of the site, which allows enabling development and non matchday income streams.

I think the cromwell road/millennium, peakes parkway and morrisons sites are large enough and are in reasonably densely populated areas.  They look like they have plenty of room for development and reasonable transport.

Freemo just has no room for everything, plus would you park your car there!! also do we really not see this and the garth lane sites being a nightmare for the club to police on big games when the force demand on being there, imagine the bill that the force would expect them to pay!!!

Garth lane again is just not big enough.  King George tiny as is B&Q and Ladysmith Road.

Tioxide is completely wrong location as is Europarc which I would argue is also too small.

Yet again no no no to Great Coates.

So for me sensibly it has to be either Peakes Parkway or Morrisons of that final list.  It will be interesting to hear Fenty's thoughts on Morrisons as I think we know what they will be on the others.

Not that the stadium will ever come to fruition, but I would be gutted if it was out of town or the council wedged a running track into it.

I'm no Labour supporter, but I think this ineptitude has gone on for 20-odd years and has the fingerprints of all sides on it.

Councils are bound by certain legal obligations in terms of due diligence and procedure.  What I saw in that report was a comprehensive and exhaustive exploration of the options within the borough, with Peakes Parkway coming out on top by a long way, so much so that if you read the breakdown of the scores for the other locations, PP is the ONLY option that is viable on the key points.  In this respect, the report has made official and irrefutable the case against such Pie-in-the-Sky ideas as King George, Pyewipe and Europarc.

This looks to me like the council would be on board if the plan were to go in, and also gives a strong argument in favour of PP in case the project is referred to the Secretary of State by objectors further down the line who hope to overturn a decision.  It's up to the club and council now to move this on and flesh out the plan to make it happen.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Colchester's community stadium is owned by the Borough Council and operated by the football club. The council borrowed over £10 million to build it with difference being made up by grants and other angel funding. I don't want to assume anything but if we are looking at a similar model then we will be renting off NELC I guess.

You may well be correct. The fact is that none of us (including me) can say with certainty that is what will happen.

GET ON WITH IT !!!!!! WE HAVE WAITED FOR SO LONG ALREADY!!!!!!

Quoted from crusty ole pie

Here we go again but I have always said since the announcement that the flats will be coming down is where the stadium will be placed and I bet it will be called the shoreline stadium ( they will possibly even borrow the plans of the keepmoat ) so I see this as stalling tactics until the site is cleared

It isn't just the area of the flats though. Compulsory purchase orders would need to be put on a lot of the properties that aren't going to be knocked down in order to accommodate reasonable car parking and the anchor tenants/housing development.

The Colchester funding idea is good, but don't locate it like Colchester have, off the A12 in the middle of nowhere. No to Europarc.

Quoted from barralad

It isn't just the area of the flats though. Compulsory purchase orders would need to be put on a lot of the properties that aren't going to be knocked down in order to accommodate reasonable car parking and the anchor tenants/housing development.

Can you see the land owners resisting the compulsory purchase orders pretty sure most with give up the liability of the run down properties like a flash.
Things are already stated in my mind with the sealing off of freeman way .


LEW CHATS LOVER
pretty sure they will be down next year very few of the flats are occupied now with the exception of nelson house

In an ideal world, I'd love it to be by Alexandra Dock in the middle of Town, or just off a rejuvenated Freeman Street, but really can't see it.  In terms of availability, it looks like PP is the only game in town, unless the council pulls some sort of redevelopment grant rabbit out of the hat.

Ok I've read the report and frankly it concerns me.

Essentially North East Lincolnshire have outsourced a review of 16 sites. This review seems pretty rigorous and realistic. It advises that 4 of the top 5 sites go forward. The Council has essentially ignored this report and added two sites. The Site that came top was ignored because of space considerations but this was re-inserted. The other site that was inserted was Freeman Street, which finished joint bottom of the review.

Having read reports like this all the time you often get a sense of which option is the Council preferred choice. In this case I have no doubt that Freeman Street is the preferred choice. First the fact they repeatedly mention the regeneration potential but more interestingly the fact that they've already had conversations with Shoreline over this matter.

Of course the Freeman Street plan is utterly crazy as all the problems associated with Blundell Park will be just as evident at Freeman Street. For example:
1. Like Blundell Park it will be difficult to police in a residential area.
2. The traffic issues will be the same - but it will be worse as the train station will be further away.
3. The East Marsh is not a good location for functions that are meant to make the stadium a 7 day a week money making opportunity.
4. There isn't the space for an enabling development.
5. Insurance will be expensive as the area is classified as been at risk of flooding.

Additionally people's homes will be bulldozed and as it's a residential area lots of people will have to put up with a big development being built around the corner from there house..

The Council's Freeman Street plan is entirely contingent on regeneration money, presumably from Europe. Except of course we may end up out of Europe in a couple of years. Obtaining regeneration money is also fiendishly complex and takes years.

Quite simply this Freeman Street plan is a disaster and one that we must oppose. I'm not saying that Labour are pushing this because there one councillor in Park ward (Peaks Parkway) is up for election in May, but....

In my view the most realistic place to build the stadium is Peaks Parkway with Morrisons probably in second place.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Ok I've read the report and frankly it concerns me.

Essentially North East Lincolnshire have outsourced a review of 16 sites. This review seems pretty rigorous and realistic. It advises that 4 of the top 5 sites go forward. The Council has essentially ignored this report and added two sites. The Site that came top was ignored because of space considerations but this was re-inserted. The other site that was inserted was Freeman Street, which finished joint bottom of the review.

Having read reports like this all the time you often get a sense of which option is the Council preferred choice. In this case I have no doubt that Freeman Street is the preferred choice. First the fact they repeatedly mention the regeneration potential but more interestingly the fact that they've already had conversations with Shoreline over this matter.

Of course the Freeman Street plan is utterly crazy as all the problems associated with Blundell Park will be just as evident at Freeman Street. For example:
1. Like Blundell Park it will be difficult to police in a residential area.
2. The traffic issues will be the same - but it will be worse as the train station will be further away.
3. The East Marsh is not a good location for functions that are meant to make the stadium a 7 day a week money making opportunity.
4. There isn't the space for an enabling development.
5. Insurance will be expensive as the area is classified as been at risk of flooding.

Additionally people's homes will be bulldozed and as it's a residential area lots of people will have to put up with a big development being built around the corner from there house..

The Council's Freeman Street plan is entirely contingent on regeneration money, presumably from Europe. Except of course we may end up out of Europe in a couple of years. Obtaining regeneration money is also fiendishly complex and takes years.

Quite simply this Freeman Street plan is a disaster and one that we must oppose. I'm not saying that Labour are pushing this because there one councillor in Park ward (Peaks Parkway) is up for election in May, but....

In my view the most realistic place to build the stadium is Peaks Parkway with Morrisons probably in second place.

Not disputing any of this but if Freeman Street were to be chosen, is the GRIMSBY DOCKS station no longer an option as a rail link?

I suspect that it would need upgrading which maybe financially prohibitive.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

I suspect that it would need upgrading which maybe financially prohibitive.

What for? New Clee has been OK and that's only a platform. In fact, proximity to the Docks station is a big plus point and the site is close to the end of the A180.

Having said that, there are other issues that would need considerable planning and the input of a developer. It would however contribute far more to the regeneration of the town than any other option and I suspect that is why the council have re-included it.

There was a great debate on Radio Humberside this morning.

Must admit I am fully inn the no to Peaks Parkway camp now. Europarc and Great Coates would be even worse though.

Melanie Onn made some good points and like him or loathe him De Freitas was fairly compelling as well.

I also feel the council would like it at Freemo because they have been banging on about re-generating that area for years. We've had artist mock ups of a pedestrianised Freeman street in the Telewag on more than one occasion but sodomist all ever comes of it. I suspect the draw for the council is the grant money available and the chance to kill 2 birds with one stone.It would also give them the chance to do something with the East Marsh which is an embarrassment in publicity terms and the least enviable borough in which to live in the entire country, according to a recent survey. They have just wasted sh1tloads building a swimming pool that nobody really wanted, so i won't hold my breath they will get the new stadium right, if they ever get round to doing it at all. The one thing this council seems to be good at is getting planning issues massively wrong on several occasions.

Quoted from psgmariner

There was a great debate on Radio Humberside this morning.

Must admit I am fully inn the no to Peaks Parkway camp now. Europarc and Great Coates would be even worse though.

Melanie Onn made some good points and like him or loathe him De Freitas was fairly compelling as well.

Totally agree about Europarc and Great Coates. Having always been in the no to Parkway camp I am just pleased people are coming to their senses and seeing a club that says it is part of the community must have a ground that actually benefits the community. That goes a lot further than just lettings and leisure activities.On the Parkway that can never happen, in fact the reverse.

So my vote would go to Freeman Street with Morrisons second if we have to have an edge of town stadium.

Quoted from psgmariner

There was a great debate on Radio Humberside this morning.

Must admit I am fully inn the no to Peaks Parkway camp now. Europarc and Great Coates would be even worse though.

Melanie Onn made some good points and like him or loathe him De Freitas was fairly compelling as well.

Not so sure, he started waffling on about the club wanting to open a restaurant "overlooking the cemetary gardens" which is total sensationalist rubbish.

Andrew DeFreitas could sign for us, score the winner to get us promoted, cure cancer after the end of the season and then headbutt David Cameron in the balls and I'd still think he was a grade A cockmuncher.

Quoted from psgmariner

like him or loathe him De Freitas was fairly compelling as well.

Quoted from WetFlannel

Andrew DeFreitas could sign for us, score the winner to get us promoted, cure cancer after the end of the season and then headbutt David Cameron in the balls and I'd still think he was a grade A cockmuncher.

Take it you definitely fall in to the latter camp WF?  

Hahahah how did you know?!

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

What for? New Clee has been OK and that's only a platform. In fact, proximity to the Docks station is a big plus point and the site is close to the end of the A180.

Having said that, there are other issues that would need considerable planning and the input of a developer. It would however contribute far more to the regeneration of the town than any other option and I suspect that is why the council have re-included it.

You would be amazed. For a start a new development would need an impact assessment on the station. But I would expect new barriers, information boards, disability improvements, CCTV and probably a lot more.

What I was wondering is, although we need an enabling development for the stadium, why therefore cannot we use one of the smaller sites (i.e. the one in town centre) and then use housing in a separate area of the town where there is free land?

Just a thought.

Given that the club are Grimsby in name only, plying their trade in Cleethorpes, why are there no sites chosen for consideration in Meggies? Or are there genuinely none to be found there?

Was it a decision originally taken only to look at Grimsby and the likes of Great Coates rather than including Cleethorpes?

Said this before, the Freeman Street option ticks more boxes than anywhere else for me.  It's central, has better transport links than the other options and will rejuvenate an area that badly needs it.  I think the final point is the one that will sway the decision and I wouldn't at all be surprised if this is already the 'agreed' site.

With regards Cleethorpes as a location.  I can only think of two areas of land anywhere near big enough to accommodate the proposed development.  One is the area opposite Meridian Point including the golf course.  The finances involved in this would be phenomenal due to the location, it would eat into the Country Park which makes it an absolute no-no, not even starting on the transport issues...can you imagine a Bank Holiday fixture with a bumper gate?

The other is the area at the back of Humberston Avenue going towards Tetney....I'll just leave that one there for laughs.

I do wonder if any neighbouring councils have had conversations with the club about potential land for a new stadium.  Thinking more of our local authority neighbours to the south than those to the west.  

Quoted from WetFlannel

Andrew DeFreitas could sign for us, score the winner to get us promoted, cure cancer after the end of the season and then headbutt David Cameron in the balls and I'd still think he was a grade A cockmuncher.

Not entirely sure that Cllr de Fruityarse will be adding your testimonial to his Curriculum Vitae if I'm honest.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I do wonder if any neighbouring councils have had conversations with the club about potential land for a new stadium.  Thinking more of our local authority neighbours to the south than those to the west.  

What like somewhere around where the boundaries meet? E.g. Toll Bar, HLC etc?

Quoted from AdamHaddock

What like somewhere around where the boundaries meet? E.g. Toll Bar, HLC etc?

Waltham Airfield?

Don't know why nobody really comments on Waltham airfield,seems to be dismissed out of hand.

Quoted from WetFlannel

Andrew DeFreitas could sign for us, score the winner to get us promoted, cure cancer after the end of the season and then headbutt David Cameron in the balls and I'd still think he was a grade A cockmuncher.

If you sit on that fence much longer you will get splinters..

Quoted from AdamHaddock

Shame it's not a tory council as they could have been bribed into approving it

Really? Nearly all the corrupt councillors I've ever heard of have been Labour ones, though I'm sure you'll find them in all parties. But then I go back a long way, to the days of Andrew Cunningham and T. Dan Smith.
Perhaps the council could get their national leader to help them make up their mind, he's shown just how decisive he is in the last few days.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Said this before, the Freeman Street option ticks more boxes than anywhere else for me.  It's central, has better transport links than the other options and will rejuvenate an area that badly needs it.  I think the final point is the one that will sway the decision and I wouldn't at all be surprised if this is already the 'agreed' site.

With regards Cleethorpes as a location.  I can only think of two areas of land anywhere near big enough to accommodate the proposed development.  One is the area opposite Meridian Point including the golf course.  The finances involved in this would be phenomenal due to the location, it would eat into the Country Park which makes it an absolute no-no, not even starting on the transport issues...can you imagine a Bank Holiday fixture with a bumper gate?

The other is the area at the back of Humberston Avenue going towards Tetney....I'll just leave that one there for laughs.

I do wonder if any neighbouring councils have had conversations with the club about potential land for a new stadium.  Thinking more of our local authority neighbours to the south than those to the west.  

Freeman St may be the right location for a few reasons over the others  BUT it will never happen there as the club can not afford to build the new ground without an enabling development, No new retailer is going to move down freeman st, With all the empty shops that are already there they would have done it by now.

The site Location has to be desirable to Anchor tenants and not just GTFC . Freeman st, the docks and Morisons sites would not bring fresh retailers running.

Freemo looks a really good location aesthetically with the dock tower in the back ground. Freemo has had a face lift and seems to be on the up a new retail outlet would complete the fix. Only problem I can see is Freshney place developers would fight tooth and nail to stop this happening.

Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby

Freeman St may be the right location for a few reasons over the others  BUT it will never happen there as the club can not afford to build the new ground without an enabling development, No new retailer is going to move down freeman st, With all the empty shops that are already there they would have done it by now.

The site Location has to be desirable to Anchor tenants and not just GTFC . Freeman st, the docks and Morisons sites would not bring fresh retailers running.

The enabling development bit will probably be the key, isn't Europarc too commercial/industrial for anything of that type to happen there? I mentioned Waltham Airfield in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way earlier but thinking on, it is a big enough area to create new infrastructure around a ground, does anyone know who it belongs to?

Quoted from barralad

Have you even bothered to read the article?

There are several councillors from across the political spectrum who are season ticket holders at B.P. and who are fully supportive of the need/plans for a new stadium. The decision of the sighting of the new stadium will be one of the most important decisions made by the council in memory. There are huge decisions around infra-structure etc. to be considered.  If you think that over such a decision the council splits on party lines you are massively out of touch. The council (probably quite rightly) had its knuckles rapped over the decision to close Scartho Baths etc. They are hardly likely to want to make the same mistakes.

Having said all of that I do wish they would get to the decision as quickly as possible-Far too much time has passed already

But surely by being season-ticket holders they are classed as having " a vested interest " and as such would be prohibited from voting on any decisions as regards the siting of the ground ?

If Freeman Street truly is viable and the council will back it and the money is there, then let's do it.  As has been said, it's a central location, will enable some regeneration of a dilapidated area, is well-connected for transport (loads of bus-routes, close to the town centre and a rail station nearby).  

Out-of-town stadiums are so early 90s; you'd never put a theatre or art gallery in the middle of an industrial estate on the outskirts of town.  City-centre stadiums, within walking and biking distance of homes and transport connections, can be part of re-making urban areas into something more compact and liveable.

Quoted from HackneyHaddock

If Freeman Street truly is viable and the council will back it and the money is there, then let's do it.  As has been said, it's a central location, will enable some regeneration of a dilapidated area, is well-connected for transport (loads of bus-routes, close to the town centre and a rail station nearby).  

Out-of-town stadiums are so early 90s; you'd never put a theatre or art gallery in the middle of an industrial estate on the outskirts of town.  City-centre stadiums, within walking and biking distance of homes and transport connections, can be part of re-making urban areas into something more compact and liveable.

Peaks Parkway is central. Not Freeman Street! We need this now not in 10 to 15 years. Typical stalling Council.

UTM!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

The enabling development bit will probably be the key, isn't Europarc too commercial/industrial for anything of that type to happen there? I mentioned Waltham Airfield in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way earlier but thinking on, it is a big enough area to create new infrastructure around a ground, does anyone know who it belongs to?

It belongs to a farmer who my old gaffer rents a lockup off.

Quoted from sonik

Peaks Parkway is central. Not Freeman Street! We need this now not in 10 to 15 years. Typical stalling Council.

UTM!

And the only place for it IMO.

Quoted from ROKERITE

Really? Nearly all the corrupt councillors I've ever heard of have been Labour ones, though I'm sure you'll find them in all parties. But then I go back a long way, to the days of Andrew Cunningham and T. Dan Smith.
Perhaps the council could get their national leader to help them make up their mind, he's shown just how decisive he is in the last few days.

Yeah but you live in Sunderland where the local Tory party hold their meetings in a phone box (and I'm not talking Dr Who's TARDIS)

sonik, I agree on PP; just noting that if the council are only going to back Freemo, then we have to take it and it could work.

What the Telegraph article didn't make much of is that PP comes out clearly on top once you factor in viability.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

The enabling development bit will probably be the key, isn't Europarc too commercial/industrial for anything of that type to happen there? I mentioned Waltham Airfield in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way earlier but thinking on, it is a big enough area to create new infrastructure around a ground, does anyone know who it belongs to?

This might be daft because I'm not sure where the boundaries of N.E. Lincs lie but I think Waltham areodrome might just be in East Lindsey which would go some way to explaining why it hasn't been considered by N.E. Lincs (I'll look tomorrow but I'm pretty sure the sign for N.E. Lincs is north of the areodrome on Louth Road. Holton Le Clay is definitely in East Lindsey.)

Quoted from rancido

But surely by being season-ticket holders they are classed as having " a vested interest " and as such would be prohibited from voting on any decisions as regards the siting of the ground ?

You may be right but just remember we aren't just talking about a football stadium here. It is to be a community stadium in every sense of the word. Most of the activities that happen there will have little or nothing to do with football on a week by week basis.

Quoted from HackneyHaddock

sonik, I agree on PP; just noting that if the council are only going to back Freemo, then we have to take it and it could work.

What the Telegraph article didn't make much of is that PP comes out clearly on top once you factor in viability.

Would rather stay at bp than try for Freeman St , just couldn't see it working tbh

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Totally agree about Europarc and Great Coates. Having always been in the no to Parkway camp I am just pleased people are coming to their senses and seeing a club that says it is part of the community must have a ground that actually benefits the community. That goes a lot further than just lettings and leisure activities.On the Parkway that can never happen, in fact the reverse.

So my vote would go to Freeman Street with Morrisons second if we have to have an edge of town stadium.

I'd be genuinely interested in why you believe that to be the case and particularly what you mean by "community"

What about getting lidl or Aldi involved . They build flats above them down this way to get planning . Why not build the new ground built above it with leisure facilities , parking whatever also incorporated into the plan ? Would fit in freemo nicely then

Quoted from sonik

Peaks Parkway is central. Not Freeman Street! We need this now not in 10 to 15 years. Typical stalling Council.

UTM!

Im pretty sure that Freemo is slap bang in the centre of the Grimsby Clee conurbation and Peaks Parkway is on the edge. Not that I want Freemo.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Im pretty sure that Freemo is slap bang in the centre of the Grimsby Clee conurbation and Peaks Parkway is on the edge. Not that I want Freemo.

I used to think that but how can an area that is effectively bordered on one of its sides by the river be in the centre of anything?

Anywhere south of Clee Road in Cleethorpes (i.e all of Beacon Hill estate and all of Chichester Road estate and the sea front), all of the villages (Humberston, New Waltham Waltham, Brigsley Scartho) and anywhere South of Welholme Road, and east of Bargate/Scartho Road is definitely nearer to Peakes Parkway. The added advantage is that for the vast majority of people living in the above areas there would be no need to go and block up the roads in the Town Centre trying to get to the ground. The accessibility of the Peakes Parkway site is unquestionable in my opinion.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

What about getting lidl or Aldi involved . They build flats above them down this way to get planning . Why not build the new ground built above it with leisure facilities , parking whatever also incorporated into the plan ? Would fit in freemo nicely then

I was thinking the same. Aldi and Lidl are the new Tesco, without the aggression.

Quoted from barralad

I used to think that but how can an area that is effectively bordered on one of its sides by the river be in the centre of anything?

Anywhere south of Clee Road in Cleethorpes (i.e all of Beacon Hill estate and all of Chichester Road estate and the sea front), all of the villages (Humberston, New Waltham Waltham, Brigsley Scartho) and anywhere South of Welholme Road, and east of Bargate/Scartho Road is definitely nearer to Peakes Parkway. The added advantage is that for the vast majority of people living in the above areas there would be no need to go and block up the roads in the Town Centre trying to get to the ground. The accessibility of the Peakes Parkway site is unquestionable in my opinion.

We can go through all the whys and wherefore of the geography - what we all want is some action and some decisions.

Quoted from barralad

This might be daft because I'm not sure where the boundaries of N.E. Lincs lie but I think Waltham areodrome might just be in East Lindsey which would go some way to explaining why it hasn't been considered by N.E. Lincs (I'll look tomorrow but I'm pretty sure the sign for N.E. Lincs is north of the areodrome on Louth Road. Holton Le Clay is definitely in East Lindsey.)

Whenever i worked on a project involving planning permission from East Lindsey Council, it was always a right palaver. The building inspectors were akin to the Hitler Youth. Very strict and a pain in the rear.